tv Inside Story Al Jazeera December 16, 2022 8:30pm-9:01pm AST
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and i jolted out of bed and turned around and i didn't see any movement, so i didn't know what the heck was going on. it's still unclear what caused the tank to burst. hundreds of people had been staying at the hotel and had now been forced to leave. the building bus was about the fence. she had enough of not yet been able to walk the 1st floor completely, which is probably where the fish will be. the thing is that the water is completely leaked out, and about $1400.00 of these fish, the, in this aquarium could not be saved either. hundreds of small fish had been house and aquariums under the hotels lobby without electricity from the tanks. it feared many may have suffocated, and if any fish are found alive, a number of organisations including the bill and who have offered to take them. and alex bid al jazeera ah,
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it's good to leave with us. hello, adrian, sending it here. and so how the headlines on our 0 peruse government is declared a 5 day curfew as protests over the countries political crisis continue. the supreme court has ruled that former president federal castillo will remain in detention for the next 18 months. he was charged with rebellion and conspiracy. after trying to dissolve congress. john holman reports in lima. what we are now, there is no curfew that square just under a 3rd of the population of 333000000 people and live it is quite targeted with different prophecies in which most of the protests have been seen in the south of the country in the may where pedro castillo has been popular in rural areas, especially in which, as someone raised from root, he has a lot of at least 5 ukrainian cities have been hit by as many as 60 russian missiles, people in parts of keith are being urged to take shelter after the city was shaken
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by 3 blasts, ukraine says that russia's military has targeted critical facilities in car heave, creevy, the and zachary ship. the e u has threatened sanctions after twitter suspended the accounts of more than half a dozen journalists who write about the company and new owner. ellen musk mosque treated that he couldn't accept that his real time location could be shared, saying it endangered his family. a caught in kosovo, has convicted a former rebel commander of war crimes, including murder, it found sally mustafah tortured prisoners during the 1998 independence war. with serbia. judges of sentenced him to 26 years in prison as a major cleanup on the way and berlin, after a giant aquarium and a hotel bust spilling a 1000000 liters of water, glass, debris and fish were washed out on to the street of those other headlands. more news on houses era after inside story next.
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ah, south africa's a and see is holding a leadership whole during its national conference is facing more scandal with president seal rama poser, the center of a cache controversy with elections in 18 months. what's next for the a and c. this is inside the ah hello, welcome to the program on hasn't seek and south africa's governing a n. c party has had a few challenging years. it's last present. resigned,
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after facing dozens of corruption charges, and our current president, cl, rama poser, has been accused of wrongdoing linked to millions of dollars in cash found at his private residence. but as the party prepares to elect its next set of leaders, how will it address the growing economic challenges and high unemployment? we'll pull that to our guests in a moment. but 1st this report from from eda, mila in johannesburg. once celebrated as a liberation party that fought against racial segregation. in recent years of africa, the governing african national congress has been riddled by corruption and criticism . it's a party of respected global and african leaders such as oliver tumble and nobel peace prize laureate nelson mandela. but 28 years into democracy, the agencies facing increasing condemnation for poor leadership and governance since montela subsequent president tub. when becky and jacob's zoom out were
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recalled or forced to resign, current president obama poses facing similar pressure in a scandal involving the 5th of hundreds of thousands of dollars from his game farm . the agencies reputation for many is in tatters. cryptography, nepotism, cadbury deployment from the very beginning of b and c government, which then became a norm within the party and within the higher echelons of the government. so even when people are found to have sallied their, their, the day they record as it were, they still continued to be deployed as members of the a and c and s trusted members of the n c. and that's what led to rampant corruption . a poorly performed economy record high unemployment and energy prices and a multitude of fraud scams of frustrated south africans. the party won the 1st in mccracken elections in 1994 with a 62 percent majority that dropped to 57 percent in the last polls support for the
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a c. been in decline for years. some voters have protested against the amc by saying away from the polls. others have abandoned the governing party and voted for the opposition. the democratic alliance and economic freedom fighters dominate opposition voices while they're combined support of almost a 3rd, a vote can't be ignored. and a and c parliamentary majority is often protected. it's in battle leaders. the in see me that money. and the people who supported the agency saw money as being something that they could get their hands on. so the solution was you could relatively easily do what you wanted and get what ever tended you wanted, provided you gave to caesar a portion of it and kept the portion for yourself. and the rock began thus, this weekend, the party will hold an elective conference to choose the president and other senior figures. the porters hope the new leadership will revive the party. but for many of
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africans it's the same old faces with the same old scandals. for me, the miller ultra 0 john is bug. ah. or we did reach out to the a and c for someone to come on the program, but nobody was made available by the time we went to ex. let's bring in our guest now in cape town, moloney wood. she is a political analyst and form a member of parliament for the a and c on the president, nelson mandela, and a former ambassador to ireland. and janice, beg, malesky and becky, chairman of the south african institute of international affairs, joined us. and also in cape town, we have cat, i'm sing executive director of corruption, watch south africa. good to have you with us. so maloney forward, let me start with you with all of the scandal that is surrounding the a and c and president ram, a post. what do you expect to come out of this congress?
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what do you hope will happen? and all those 2 things the same. thank you very much for having me, and i don't actually expect anything that dramatic at this stage. it. i mean, the big question for this conference is, is where the rom oppose ah, will be re elected for a 2nd term. and at this stage, nothing seems to indicate that he won't get that. so i think he's fairly safe. and then the interesting thing is then going to be who else is going to be in the top 6 of the nationally? the opposite bare is b a and c, and whether they are supportive of him. and, and this is of course important because it gives us a sense of who, whether i'm applause, i will continue to be president and also for how long he will be continued to be president. i certainly think that with all the columns, all the mistakes, all the scandals as your right to point out. despite all of that,
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i still believe that at this stage, from the base stuff, all the candidates available inside the a and see the question now i need remains then for how long would he then still remain president at which stage would he am? hopefully in a peaceful and orchestrated manner, hand over to a presumably poem, i should feel a who will be the deputy president according to everything we can see at this stage . malesky and becky, is that how you see it? yes, i tend to think that is correct, but so robin will get re elected as president of the n c. and he will continue as president of the country. but of course, they are still investigations that have been carried out by state all about the foreign currency veterans fund on his private farm.
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so obviously if as the he's found guilty, you're not going. he cannot. when you as president. i think though, there are many people who can replace them. i don't think that anyone in this world is cannot be placed. can i'm saying let's, let's pick up on those. the investigations such as they are, that are going on around ram opposed to right now. and this scandal over his over his finances. do you expect those investigations to be, to be credible and to lead to anything? got no, we got no reason to believe that they wouldn't be credible. i mean, the 1st hurdle was an independent panel that was appointed by parliament to to assess whether the president drama pose advocates to answer and should face an impeachment. inquiry not report k came out and said yes, he did have
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a case to answer, but parliament voted down the, the acceptance of that report. and then through that sort of closed down the impeachment process. but there is a ongoing police investigation that is ongoing investigation from the south african goods person, the public protector. and you know, these investigations could, could uncover a criminal wrongdoing. certainly ethical wrong doing. and, you know, we'll scrutinize the president's conduct. so there's still, you know, there's still a little bit of a gamut that he has to, that he has to go through to about these you know, quite serious allegations that emerged about his private business dealings. maloney, there is a question here as to whether the a and c with all of this allegations of corruption that of it's been swelling around and not just over the current president, but his predecessor and his pre says before that there is a sense that the a and c, it has lost its way to the extent that it faces a,
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a credible threat of losing power. is that how you see it? while undoubtedly the agency has lost a lot of support even in terms of they own membership, as was just revealed in the last few hours that their membership went down from. i think 1.4000005 years ago to about 600000 now currently. so undoubtedly the amc has lost a lot of support. the only question is whether they this will be reflected in 2024 and to what extent it will be reflected at the next general election. which as i said is in 2020 full. the, you know, and there are, there are lots of collisions and thought of the reason. of course why i don't believe the amc will be totally annihilated. they will still be the majority party . the only question is, you know, how much will it be? how much will they have? would it be under 50 percent? and if it is under 50 percent of the support was how far i'm the 50 and part of the reason, as i thought it saying that i don't believe that there will be totally annihilated
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and will remain the majority party is because the opposition is extremely fragmented. and weak and thus, even though with all the frustrations, all the lack of service delivery, the problems we have in terms of electricity provision at the moment. that corruption issues, as you rightly point out. all of those things. yes, they will make a dent in the amc support. the question is how much. and the interesting thing that we saw with our local government elections about 2 years ago is that the traditional agency support as did not move to another party to a large extent. they would some exceptions, but very little they, they actually just didn't come out to vote. so and that impact, of course, quite a lot on all proportional proportional voting system that we have in this country. so to ensure to say, yes, they have definitely lots support. i'm sure this will be reflected in the national election unless they can seriously pull the act together and the next 2 years. but i do believe that they'll stay the majority g. the only question is whether it will
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be an outright majority over 50 percent malesky and becky given the, the dominance that the agency has had in south african politics in the, in the post apartheid era. how much of a den do you think this will this will put in their popularity and in the election? 2024 election going forward? well, the day, the 2024 elections are still a long way away, up to 18 months that way. so i think it's a bit, this is a bit premature to to predict election outcomes that coming in 18 months time. yes. then see the largest part of the pickup. but at the end of the day, it's whether it gets 50 percent plus one for it to rule the country and its own. or it was me. it was me when i was meet
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cooperation most to the country. what has been happening in the last 5 years? it's been point about it is that they say the traditional vote will be an see a big part of it is the black working in the major metropolitan metro polls are not a staying at home and not voting. for the agency, they are not voting for the survivor. but in that situation and the opposition benefits and our electoral system. cat, i'm saying if we talk more specifically about this particular scandal itself, they can the so called cache and the sofa scandal as it, as it's been called does, does the president explanation for the stand up to scrutiny as knowing what, knowing what, what you know right now, well up to this point,
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the president really hasn't given a full public disclosure about what happened. so we have sort of piece, meal pieces of information, representations of, of the president story as were presented to the independent panel. so, you know, it really remains to be seen and exactly what happened. what did the president know? was there an attempted cover up? you know, i mean, i think it is important to note that the allegations you know, of this matter emerge from an implicated a spy boss. someone that was implicated quite heavily in the state capture commission of inquiry. so the origins of the allegations come from a suspect source, but you know, we do know that the president has not fully divested himself from his personal business dealings. and there are basic facts that we have in place, such as the fact that the president received law a large sum of cash in for in
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a foreign denomination, which he didn't bank, you know. and that really is a red flag for the types of corruption challenges that we face in south africa. challenges around a, an economy which is vulnerable to things like money laundering and elicit financial flows. and you know, the types of allegations, the presidents facing really are the types of red flags that you see in a scenario where, you know, almost where you're, you're looking at kind of an organized, organized crime type of scenario. so the president must overcome these issues. i share the concerns of the fellow panelists and terms of the bonus, the days of the other leadership within the and see who, who may come in in this president wake. so yeah, i mean, i think the amc will have a tough case to sell but that the general public ultimately about it stewardship in the fight against corruption, maloney fur. what's your take on,
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on the specific allegations here and the president defensive is i think they can be no doubt as kermit greatly say that the initial and complaint and allegations are politically driven. there is no question about that. but the question then arises, all the questions arise, to what extent. and there was some little bits of truth in the, in these allegations. and we'll have to wait and see, you know, if everybody have mentioned that they are still ongoing investigation from also from our revenue service and reserve bank to, to check whether they have been any big mistake made. and our president's. i've said that if he any charges laid against him, he will step aside. he will revive and i do actually believe that. so we really have to wait and see. i don't have more, let's see when agree with me on this. but personally,
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i do not believe that this is a president that is inherently corrupt. i also don't think he's stupid, that he will deliberately have made, you know, hidden money from the reserve bank or hidden money from our revenue services. he is rich enough. the amount is not that significant within he's context of wealth. and so i, they might have been in my view, they might have been some mistakes of oversights, and of negligence. but i'm not, i'm yet to be convinced that this was a deliberate attempt by the president to commit fraud or to and to, to come to commit a crime by not declaring money or not banking it in time. well, let's say melissa does agree with you. what was your take on this ma? let's see what i'm trying to think it was money. well, for him it was probably going to the
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a and see how we ended up when he had spa, me and all those issues. i don't know, but mainly i would rather not speculate on this matter because we just don't have enough information. that is the sudanese gentlemen who says he bought wild buffaloes from the president at $125.00 hundreds and the $80000.00 us dollars is still not see how we use the president. what fought one, selig, 20 buffalos. and it's not clear how much i'll give you know, that, that, that how much buffaloes, what we're going to decidedly slowed for. so the fact of my own suspicion is that it had and the buffaloes by the way, which were bought man, it's,
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we're still on the president's. they have not been taken to the to all way, but this gentleman wanted to take this buffalo's to so you spend $400.00 to $580000.00 buying animals. admittedly, miss kim, this isn't called miss and said to me as well, for $580000.00 is p now. so i guess it doesn't matter, but is buffalo's still in south africa 3 years later. but then why go to the trouble of buying them if you take them away? so, you know, like i said, i don't for the investigator until the president and the investigators tell us what they real story i then we can spend all day
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speculating. let me get, you'll take on this cat, i'm saying, regardless of what happens out of this particular investigation there, all those who say that over the years, the a and c corrupt corruption, allegations of corruption have dog d, n. c to such an extent. now that it's, it's become almost the norm is, is this something that the can really affect them long term? this is something that they really, they really need to shake off. yeah, absolutely. i mean, you know, the n c has been the governing party since 1994. when tell africa at its 1st a democratic elections. it oversaw the establishment of the constitution and democratic governance in south africa. but since that time we've seen the kind of the creeping shadow of endemic corruption, we saw grand corruption very early on in south africa. democracy with that with the arm steel. and then we saw it sort of at least 10 years of state capture for which
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we've just completed a long judicial commission of inquiry. all of that happened on the n c's watch. if you look into the details of those on the commission's report and the state capture the complicity of the a and c, and it's not just jacob zoom, it's a leadership prior to jacob zoom. and we've seen, you know, significant gram corruption scandals since jacob's emma left the scene. so this is the a, n c is legacy. this is what the and see goes to the polls on. and you know, we've already spoken about other issues such is, you know, declining a services and the challenges of building a capable of developmental state. so you know that it's feeding ground for opposition parties to, to, to, to put a different case to the, to the electorate. but as, as the, you know, the panelists have said, the likelihood is that the n c will still remain a majority party,
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possibly below 50 percent. and we could be moving into an, an era of coalition government. and perhaps that, that, that will be sufficient to, to shift the political narrative, you know, towards a more kind of coherent, appointed and dedicated fight against corruption. up to this point, we're really been dealing with the wake of state capture and trying to revitalize institutions like the revenue service and the prosecuting authority that we're really hobbled. so yeah, it's, it's a window of opportunity, but all still needs to happen. let's talk a little bit more then about some of the, some of the issues beyond corruption, then maloney, fer, would the south africa is facing some real problems right now. as a battles with sore and commodity prices to fall out of the rushes war and ukraine power cuts for the dense to and economy the still reeling from from the cobra. 1900 pandemic. is the government properly equipped to deal with all of this?
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is it handling it in the right way as a live? it is 1st say, i think the one thing that we mustn't and like to say is that yes, there's been corruption in south african, a large scale and nobody can deny that. and, but prior to the zimmer, here's am, i mean, even the arm still and so on. they were investigations into that and it was exposed and it was dealt with m it while some of it's still being dealt with. and under this, in my years, of course, corruption did becoming demick and it wasn't treated correctly. and it wasn't prosecuted to the extent that it should have. and it grew to a point which was totally unacceptable, but censor i'm opposed has been there. there actually has at least been attempt from his side and from the agencies side, even though there was a lot of pushback as well from said in court as those who were involved to really try and cut down and corruption and, and to really deal with the issues, so i just think it's important to mention that in particularly to a foreign audience who's not always aware of the detail, the my new chaise,
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what's going on in south africa in terms of the challenges that face south africa and they are enormous. they were always enormous and they haven't reduced in size, they most probably have grown. and for example, one of the biggest problems we currently have and as impacting very negatively on our economy and on just social and economic welfare is, is in general is of course our problems with our electricity providers. and those are not problems that are going to go away quickly and they are largely through the making of, of the a and c government. and so is the a and c government equipped to, to deal with it. and it's a bit of a yes, no answer for me. i don't drove anybody else is much better equipped to deal with it. but the challenges i huge, it's going to take time and, and, and, and it's not something that's going to pass. and in the next few years for us in south africa. all right, we're just briefly malesky and becky in the, in the less than a minute, we got left big problems as south africa right now. beyond just are allegations of
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corruption is, is you have confidence that this government can deal with it. well the government has been in power since 1994. and with that 144 percent unemployment of africa and has been and as i mentioned, the electricity supply. ready the backbone of employment creation. it has been erotic for the last 15 years the government been able to solve the problem. so they answer for me. no, i don't expect the, the government will be able to solve the major economic problems so that our faces. ready the company 10 years since it couldn't solve them in the last, merely put it on that. now we're going to have to leave it. thanks very much to all 3 of you, melanie forward, malesky and becky and kat am saying thanks so much for being on inside story. and
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thank you. as always for watching around me, you see this problem again, any time just go to a website. i just, you know, dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter handle. there is at a j inside story for me. has i'm see, can the whole team here, bye for now? ah
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