wants to save the pinky guano from extinction include a captive breeding program. now there is proof the reptiles of breeding in the wild, leaving them one step further from extinction. felicity ogilvy, al jazeera. ah . hello again. to headlines on al jazeera, ukraine's president has landed in the united states for talks with president joe biden. it's his 1st known trip abroad since russia's invasion in february for latimer zalinski will also address congress and hold several bilateral meetings. alan fisher is in washington d. c. he tells us about the importance off those visits was being described by people i'm speaking to here, eyes significant, symbolic and important. they know that they have been the biggest supporters of loaded mir zalinski from before. this thought of the russian invasion, which was 300 days ago to day. i know the want to sure that support by speaking to

him in person. he's reflecting that by making this, the 1st place is visited since the war began. also, lance, his trip comes on the same day that the russian president vladimir putin has in meeting his top military officials to discuss the results of the war. and ukraine so far will release you, you be, we was more listed at our army and military capabilities are increasing the young constantly every day. this process will make no mistake, will not be sped up a personal presidency. nobela warranty has re shuffled part of her cabinets by the warranties appointed a new prime minister and finance minister. they were sworn in just hours after congress approved her request to move elections forward by 2 years. peru has seen widespread protest since former president petro castillo, was impeached and imprisoned. 2 weeks ago, i've gone asked on taliban rulers, have banned all female students from attending university. the latest crackdown on

women's rights takes effect immediately. girls have already been banned from middle school and high school. thousands of ambulance staff are going on strike in the u. k. on wednesday, a day after similar industrial action by nurses. up to 100000 nurses was off the job calling for better pay and working conditions. the deadline is looming for the formation of a new israeli government. the incoming prime minister benjamin netanyahu has until midnight local time. to finalize his coalition, australia and china have agreed to more high level talks on trade, human rights, and security, australia for a minister penny wong is in beijing for a talk. so the chinese foreign minister. it's a 1st visit by a top australian diplomats in 4 years. the news hours at the top of the hour right here on al jazeera but coming up next it's inside story. thanks for watching and bye bye for now.

ah. estrella and china about 50 years of diplomatic relations which have been rather frosty of late news, straightly and foreign minister has travelled to beijing a step towards rapprochement. so what are the sticking points and just how important is their relationship? this is inside story. ah hello there and welcome to the program. i'm the star theater. now china astray leo, mocking half a century of diplomatic ties, but there hasn't been

a lot to celebrate recently. a rift that began in 2019 only deepened over the next 3 is a strategy as new governments that about improving relations. alley on with prime minister anthony alban. easy meeting president. she's in ping at last month's g. 20 summit and bali. chinese trade sanctions do remain in place, but one visit as the 1st by an australian minister and 3 is. it's the latest diplomatic offensive indicating a thor and relations is on the way the mark of success is dialogue and so we obviously have a lot of issues to work through and dialogue is a prerequisite working through them. what i would say is what i'd say to minister one, and i can say counselor, one gate. we believe it's in the interest of both countries with the trade impediments to be removed or diplomatic ties between strayer and it's major trading partner. china have been strained in recent years. beijing impose sanctions on trailing exports in 2020 off the can record for an international inquiry into the origins of curve at 19. those restrictions nationally applies to several huge is

trailing industries including wine, barley, and coal. beijing was also angered when the previous government under former prime minister scott morrison, shutout telecommunications, from quote, a from australia is 5 g network. up to 2020 china is the biggest buy of this trailing iron or gas and coal and china has also applied to join a trans specific trade pact. as trailer is already a member and has veto powers over membership applications or human rights, another area is disagreement. foreign minister penny wong, raise the case of 2000000 citizens, county jailed in china. journalist chang lay and all that young hinge on of course are discussed. miss july and dr. young. we raise that in every senior level engagement that we are able to and authorize that in each of the discussions i've had with the state counsellor. and we advocate for range of things in those

discussions. day includes for those strivings to be being an artist with their families as soon as possible. but we also advocate for the observance of our functional agreements. and for those just trying to have control access. obviously because it is presented some problems to you. it is the case so just rather doubtful that just trying and should be given a corporate culture access and will continue to advocate for the while. for more on this now i'm joined by i guess in brisbin we have test news and cane cheese. the projects needed for the pacific hub at griffith university in beijing is henry hugh. yeah. why? he's the founder and president of the center for china and globalization. and in type a, we have alicia garcia herrera. she's the chief economist for the asia pacific and the texas. that's a french investment bank. i will welcome to you. well, thank you for joining us on inside story. now we've had this 90 minute meeting,

a very carefully worded press conference. i noted that when she was about to have a meeting this morning, penny wong had said the i stores. but slowly alicia, what you make of the melt so far? i think this is basically good news that we're having these, this fiscal meeting after bobby because it shows that, you know, there is a possibility for re engagement that and really perhaps means as much as re engagement. rapprochement might be that word, but i think this is not only australia we're seeing, basically the us, we're seeing european member states. everybody's kind of coming in and realize in that that you know, and you called worries in nobody's interest. and i think this is part of that stories one chapter in that story short. i'm curious about the timing of this, sir, from particularly the chinese side chinese economy is obviously hurting hugely at

the moment it's feeling increasingly isolated because of its 0 cobit strategy. was beijing perhaps ready to do this? and the change of government in australia was just a good opportunity to do that. henry? well, i think this is the best time as we know that during the last 23 months, john has actually started the very active high level, the promise, the precedence. she has actually went to the g, 20 australian leaders there and also cost. so we have the pack, we have to a parade of authorities are coming now, is the form used to come in? just great. i think china, australia fundamentally have no, no conflict, geopolitical body issues and it's really on you and. and also i expected the bilateral religion has gone so low so, so i think this is great, a high time that we revive the normal relation and maybe let's elevate that to

a better level. so, so i think it's really a good time and trying to economies, those are starting to boom again because not the lifted covey control, and we expect retaliatory growth of the chinese economy in the next year. so i think this is probably a right time to engage and particularly china and australia has a such a reactive cannot be bilateral relations show. and me, sorry, just to follow up that i'm curious about how much you think this particular rapprochement from the chinese side has been driven by domestic concerns or not. this is not, i don't think there's any domestic concern related because really, you know, there's 3 months ago john, top details are starting to around weren't already been in central asia in june 20 and then all the title and all the places. and also we see a parade of before leaders come in for 5. leaders come in november and

december and we expect in president mark homecoming probably soon. secretary clinton's comment. so everyone is engaging china. so in that kind of context, i think you're not doing well actively, it's probably 40 up behind so so i think it's good time dramatically. chinese also get up to recover from the colby downs and it's probably the best time i think that so let me, let me bring hold in here to speak about the trailer and timing of all of this because i also notice that penny wong is just fresh out of the south pacific as well. she's been on a tour of nations there and relations with china and that part of the well, they've also been fairly controversial in some cases they've led to violent riots to what you make of the timing here. i think it's quite interesting timing in the australian context, and as you say, literally last week minutes,

the wong was with the pots, the delegation in 3 different pacific countries. you know, this time of year tends to be quite quiet in the australian context in terms of media in common trade. so i think that is significant in terms of how the out beneath the government wants this to be portrayed. so yes, it's significant. but even before she left, that one was quite careful to be closing down any great expectations that everything was going to happen at once. she's made it very clear that she said this is something of a process and certainly, well, i mean, i don't know the issues in the pacific were discuss when she met with accounts in beijing, but certainly a lot of the work that's been done by sen wong, and her colleagues in the region since the change of government has been about trying to reassure pacific partners that australia is interest in the region. and

australia is interest in them. is, is more than simply trying to either compete with or contain china in the region. but a number of the things that penny says that she did raise issues around human rights . we had a little bit of that earlier in the show. she also, i believe, raised the treatment of the week in minority. and obviously the ongoing detention of these 2 is trillion citizens, chang lee and dr. young hang. john. these are the feel very sensitive issues. so basing, but alicia beijing must have known that this was all going to come up. right? yeah, i mean the thing is that if this happens, every time there was somebody there visits, china, i mean it, i think anyone has to faces which the canadian had a result. and i thing is now i time for a trailer to solve this problem. but it goes beyond, as it said, i mean there's 2 major issues. ah, why is the, the very, that australia request to investigate the origins of coverage which led to,

of course, further work of the relation. and now the thing is, anyone is going ask chinese opening up at 80 degrees with potential consequence for the rest of the world, because this is a massive you know, change in direction with potential patients. so, you know, there's a lot of things beyond the ones you said that could be discussed also regarding coffee. so surely it's not only going to be on the worst that we know, but i think it is good that these things are discussed. and i think that's why i so in the visit is, is worth happening by all means some purposes. so i want to take a look at some of the not very nice words that have been said by particularly well, both sides, but particularly one sided. i will, at one point towards the end of 2020 relations that deteriorated so far that china was actually publicly issuing threats. one chinese official said, and i quote,

if you make china the enemy, china will be the enemy. and china, one point listed 14 grievances that was a leak document, and they included what government funding for so called anti chinese were such a trillion think tanks deliberately spoken to china hysteria, criticizing china's behavior when it came to taiwan, hong kong and young as well as some of them that we've discussed already. henry, what's happened to the grievances from beijing side. they just gone away. why send me in? she can't do you remember the day? the 21st is the exact date of 50 years ago and australia and china. you stop is given back to pies and that one you stopped your time zone 100 and a total train knowledge to 200000000000 over and over 2000 times has increased since last pass. beckett plus you know, half a century so. so than you know, now we have such a great relation the past, you know, we have over a 120 cities and prophecies. we have still exchanges a booming tories. i mean,

it's really the largest trading part of china launch the export market. john is the for foster and so all those good things, you know, of course, china doesn't, you know, we don't understand why. suddenly the relationship gets sour because, of course, tracing origins is one probably the reason why they have not really so far away. we have a border issue and now they are in the quad, the in the are because because of nuclear submarines, you know, i mean what that for. so, i mean there is, there's a lot of reasons stanley, i think he's, trust, has been created in the last number of years. probably yet on both sides too. but, but, but again, i think it's now it's a turning point. the problem is the math, the presidency, and the form is, is willing to come to wage into talk all those issues, which is great. i think we need to dialogue with, you know, communication so. so i think it's in both countries will continue these. 4 problems

and standing, and then i have a better understanding of china. and one of the things as china is all very happy about that. we've mentioned a couple of them that really triggered the deterioration here. that the very rapid deterioration of relations. and one of them was the ban on hallway and the other was this, this request for the independent investigation to the origins of code that test. let me ask you that you're sitting in brisbin. what's actually happened in regards to both of those? well, the well with thing has been, you know, this, that, that's, that's had indications in the region as well. so we saw australia takeover essentially off. it's a fund, a submarine fiber, optic telecommunications cable service, both solomon islands and pop and guinea. and that was essentially, you know, very direct intervention in order to prevent while we're providing that critical infrastructure. and then more recently,

we've seen the australian government essentially under right house try to buy out did to sell, which is out. so let me pro company in the region because there was a, there was a concern, we don't know what that was based on that the, the parent company might sell that to a chinese operate. and so these issue of who is managing, supplying and running telephones and digital infrastructure in the region is one that is still very, very touchy and very sensitive for the australian security community. so clearly, trust has not been built up in that regard. i want to move on to talking trade, henry, you mentioned the huge volume of bilateral trade. let's take a look at some of the numbers in 2021. bilateral trade between the 2 countries came to approximately $231000000000.00 us dollars. china's imports from australia

reached 165000000000, that's up more than 40 percent from the year before. despite the foster relations australian imports from china, west $73000000000.00 us dollars, including goods like household appliances and telecoms. equipment and chinese nationals also constitute, as we mentioned, the largest number of international students and inbound tourists. now it's always been renewable. that in 2020 a trailer was one of the countries, one of the few developed countries in the world that had a trade surplus with a child that had exported more to china than an imported. but then china slapped on those trade restrictions were what something like $20000000000.00 in that time. as trailer has found many of the markets reads goods especially for colon, barley. so alicia, let me ask you, how much does the strategy actually need china now? when i was straightly figured, although this was not known before,

china indeed cuts or bad. some of no, but some of the imports from australia. i think what i learned is that china bass with us and really fully need, but it doesn't band with time and me and this is, i don't know or, and the bulk basically of china, the imports from australia. so this shop wasn't as big as expected. and on top of that because the rest of the world isn't this energy transition. and you know, everybody's looking for guys are looking for a critical met, minerals and that's where trailers standing out anyway for the chaise in australia are trying to conclude a trade agreement, free trade agreement with australia. so in other words, wasn't, that's painful. and that, i think it's very important to realize that those trade is going to be indeed, but that's going to be jim because if it's economist climate and because i'm trying

to call them is actually an improvement is low. there's no problem with those trade in economy. so that's important to realize. elisha, you allude to that to something that's very critical for china and that's natural resources that china desperately needs. and we let me ask you this. we've talked a little bit about australian i and or in particular, is china now trying to shore up this trailing resources? is that part of the motivation for trying to throw out these ferocity relation? no, i don't think so because sir, you know, china as a, you know, the, one of the big, the importers that they can buy anywhere. and then, i mean, the reason that the gold from australia, because the joint good relation was ross really before. but then if australia is really put china as a potential enemy and have nuclear submarines and aligns with the security is those you as a japan on child?

so what, what, what do you think about chance people felt 1st at the, how do they fell about those things? suddenly there's, this is to history. so, so i think that, you know, now it's good time that we're turning around but, but still, i think that we would have learned when to actually then i'm, i'm slightly confused by what you're saying there. because you're saying that china doesn't need a strategy. and i and, or, and, and it's worried about this, a lack of trust. and when it comes to security, and yet, china is continued importing australian, i, in or even through these very, very frosty times. so how does that work? what china certainly early you know, they come by the come by from australia to come by from other countries. i mean, which miss john is still very, very reasonable. they are not stopping all the imports. of course not. and they are stupid, you buying from australia, which i think is fine. but we actually, you know, like my think tanks a sort of a john, a global as we hosted to a former

r sewland trading mister birmingham in 2019. he came to my office and made a deliver speech a welcome john, john, secret to give you that time. so i think we could do, we have a lot of things to collaborate. and so i think for this region for asia pacific, there's lots of things that work counters can walk in together between a channel that you are japan and here because i have already sign auster, which i was. i'm curious about how this is working out from the australian side when it comes to trade, because now after this conversation, they've agreed to expand high level dialogue, which will now also include presumably between trade ministers. test. how soon do you think we might see any of these trade restrictions being lifted? if at all a optimistic ah, that's not really something i'm in the position to comment on that some a max of for obviously the, i'm sure that now that these now that these dialogues have re commenced. i'm sure that the trade people will be capitalizing on that and trying to get things moving

as soon as possible. and i know that said, there is a lot of expectation on the part of australian business leaders that they want to see these. these issues moved along and barriers removed as soon as possible as well. they do indeed, well, we also can't have a conversation about australia and china without mentioning the u. s. and i see that on the eve of this visit prime, this album easy made a rather striking choice to his new us ambassador, the former prime minister, kevin rud, who not only speaks fluent mandarin, but also i believe that his folks, the doctor is on, she's in things well view. he's also been heading the asia society in new york for the last few years. alicia is this is trailer, making its priorities in washington clare. well, i have to say indeed, you're quite ready. it's a strange choice, but i guess, you know, kevin rat is, is probably good enough to be to also help him. but sort of the you as a mother,

he's knowledge and child. i mean, but the, the thing is i don't know how anyone is going to head off. i mean, how is it going to be that he's really not somehow maybe admittedly interfering yet because because the u. s. s such an interesting china so. so that's going to be a tricky ah, whether that was on purpose and there was a reason for that. i really can't tell when it is indeed a difficult be. i think even for penny one more her. i mean, i would find it difficult to see, and then a lot of the us, let me bring in test here because i'm, i'm not sure that it's viewed as such a strange choice in australia. there's been a lot of emphasis on, on how to deal with china. how is that going over in australia t s? i think that has been this a similar kind of conversation as una would. would it have been better to sent rod to begging because he does have such a strong chinese aspect to his expertise,

but he's been resident in the us for quite some time. and obviously as built up some really important networks there. and i think that given, given australia's position in the region and given the importance of australia's relationships with countries in the pacific and also in southeast asia, that do not necessarily see china as a threats in the same way as that, as they might, as might be the case in washington, it's possibly not a bad thing to have somebody in washington who couldn't put forward, you know, australia's position and, and, you know, maybe have a more nuanced conversation about how different aspects of the relationship with china needs the securely with partners like i say, in se asia and the pacific that see that see china quite differently and also have white different views about the,

the impacts of strategic competition. henry, let me ask you how the u. s. and the usaa relationship with astray. leah is viewed in beijing right now because you were looted to the orchestra, try it out to a security patch that was signed. that was in september last year. obviously a lot happened since then. anthony, blinking, as you also mentioned, is due to visit china early next year. how does china view the security situation now, especially when it comes to to trust? well, i think they just come and on a cabin road. i mean, i was with him last monday, singapore the same panel on china and i think it's a great choice can stand china and stand us here, obvious knows how to defend australia interest so. so i think would be great. have somebody most knows the world to really be a basle to us and, and of causal wise in both government on china. so what i think the actually,

you know, the blinkers come in and i'm sure to be more us off is your car in john's off. you may come to us. so i think in the australia is far away from you as far we from china there's, there's no, no interest boss here at the company as, as a secured lives of some kind. you know, your best position will be in the middle of it to have the best of a to, or rather than really the non one and read against the other, which is really foolish. because john is the largest trading bottoms raina likelihood ubs radio depends on china also. so. so i think now it, we are one of the realize that and are doing the writing. and so be pleased to see that to, to happen. i think, you know, i would just like to say you have a more strategic dependence and maybe not have a better relation with both us and china. not only this is one and against the other. clearly, this is all very, very much part of the process that i'm afraid we'll have to leave our discussion there for now. thank you to all of our guests. tess newton, kane henry, hear you one and alicia garcia,

herrera and thank you to for watching. you can see this program again, any time by visiting our website that's out there. i dot com. and to read the discussion, do go to our facebook page that facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. remember, you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is an inside story. for me is nancy. hey, i'm whole team here and i for ah, ah, a

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