rather, among dozens of public artworks installed and time for the world cup some permanent, some temporary, but all part of cat as efforts to use art as soft power. ah, the woman behind it all is shakera, may i say, fanny, the sister of cutters, emir, and the chairwoman of cotton museums. she's considered one of the world's most important art buyers, helping carter to diversify its economy away from the oil industry, and increase its international influence. its museums are really dynamic spaces and their generates their generations of discussion of debate right from the stock katara has understood how important culture is and to communicating with the world and communicating its identity, its positioning, the world and masters grow and grow and grow more museums and galleries are plant designed as works of art in their own right, and holding influence that stretches far beyond their walls. alexia bryan al

jazeera, doha, ah, i've a picture of a headlines here on the al jazeera ukraine's president's address. the u. s. congress sank, his country will never surrender to russia, not in his the landscape in washington on his 1st war time, overseas trip. he said ukraine remains recipient, but we'll need more help. and would like to thank you. thank you very much. thank you for both financial packages you have already provided us with. and there was you may be willing to decide on your money is not sheree team is an investment in the global security and democracy that we handle in the most responsible way will earlier the u. s president, announce a new $1800000000.00 package for ukraine,

which includes patriot missiles. joe biden said the u. s. would stand with the crane for as long as it takes. meanwhile, russian president vladimir putin as approved a 30 percent increase in military personnel. kremlin says peace talks with ukraine are not possible. while western countries supplied with weapons the founder, the collapse crypto county exchange, f t x is in f. b i custody. and on his way to the u. s. sam, bank men free that was flown out of the bahamas overnight. after agreeing to be extradited. he's facing several charges relating to one of the biggest financial frauds in u. s. history. where he was president dina below. artie has carried out a major cabinet reshuffle appointing a new prime minister and finance chief. it came out that she won the approval of congress to bring forward elections. for testers, have been demanding early polls following the impeachment and imprisonment of former president little castillo israel's longest. serving prime minister benjamin netanyahu says he has secured a last minute deal to form a new government. nathan,

yahoo was facing a midnight deadline to arrange a coalition. it follows weeks of tough negotiations with religious and far right. coalition partners. i'm thousands of ambulance workers in the u. k. have gone on strike. the demand better pays put the national health service under 30 strain a day after industrial action by nurses. those are the headlines and is continues here now jazeera after the stream stage, when, thanks to watching bye for now. talk to al jazeera, we also do live the women of afghanistan were somehow abandoned by the international community. we listen, we api issue the process for the war against terrorism. what's going on is one we meet with global news makers. i'm talk about the stories that matter on al jazeera . i am sammy ok. you're watching the stream. how do you say,

sorry for slavery. this have a dove, dutch government, apologize for its part in the trans atlantic slave trade. let's quit the agreements the new. it is true that nobody alive to day bears any personal guilt for slavery. but it is also true that the dutch state, in all its manifestations, through history, bears responsibility for the immense suffering that has been done to those who are enslaved and their descendants, and now sounds with chicago. from thus be acknowledged. today, on behalf of the dutch governments, i apologize for the past actions of the dutch state to enslaved people in the past . everywhere in the world who suffered as a consequence of those actions, as well as to their daughters and sons. and to all their descendants, up to the present day, thought that he had an devlin's prime minister, margaret, his official apology, received some mixed reactions. let's see what you had to say on twitter to us. an apology without reparation is just an excuse. and what, or?

sorry, do rewrite, the past apology alone isn't enough, but it is a good start. what he think on you chief i comment section is live gilvais. well, could be part of this program, but your thoughts are right here. ah. so how do you address the challenges and issues when it comes to making a formal apology for slavery? helping us have that conversation. linda quincy. alas, so good to have all 3 of you with us, linda, please say hello to our audience around the world. tell them who you are, what you do. a lot everybody. my name is linda nightmare, and i'm the chair of the dutch of nancy board. and then sir, is the gotcha institute on slavery and it's legacy get to having quincy, i should say, welcome back to the stream. it's been a few years, but it's always going to have you please say hello to our audience around the world

. i am going to gary or i'm an artist unemployed. and i years ago i was on the scene talking about the other dutch proctors called black feeds. and so i'm here again to be a bit of a trouble maker and to have you. hello alice. nice to have you on the street, please say hello to audience around the world. tell them who you are, what you do. hi, amanda her. and i'm the researcher on racism in europe for human rights watch, which is a global human rights organization. all right, i'm as an apology for slavery. if you're a country that was a former colonial country who enslaved people, does a party have to come at some point? you have to say, sorry, yes. so the 1st reaction is that this is a big deal for the prime minister and to acknowledge that the duct stayed enabled,

encouraged, and profited from slavery for centuries. so that is recognition that the crimes among the 2 crimes against humanity with ongoing impact on descendants of into lay people, the path for accountability of the netherlands and further action. so the formal apology is therefore an important 1st step, but it's certainly not the last step toe and a reckoning with its slavery power. and also the impact it has had on descendants and save people today, and allowing for healing. also for a descendant of those and slaves, many of whom also live in the netherlands. so you could say, obviously, you know, that this apology is coming 150 years too late. but it is necessary. it's nevertheless, signal of change that needed to now be translated into further action. so the apology is just a 1st step. reparations to right, the wrongs can take many forms, including such a formal apology and the acknowledgment of wrong committed,

but financial restitution and other com. the preparations, they need to follow now as well. all right, so the 1st step, quincy, when you saw your appointment, if there was so many rumors that the dutch government were about to apologize for the transatlantic slave trade. so, on monday, the 19th of december, it wasn't really a big surprise. your reaction when you saw and heard the apology. i mean, when you look at a speech, i'm more carefully you realize of actually what he did is he sidestepped the possible ways of getting any financial restitution any reparations? because he said that based on the laws of today, what happened in the past with our k, he didn't say that what happened in the past was not okay based on what happened in the past. so what you get is an apology, which is actually a means to curtail any type of operations. and one of the things which is really

fascinating when you listen to market, to present this. this is someone who in 2003, i stayed secretary implemented a policy which was basically racist or birch court in 2007 labeled races. he became prime minister in 2010 with the help of the most racist party we have in parliament. he step down with his last cabinet because of institutional racism. and none of that is mentioned in the, in the speech melody has mentioned that he, himself, personally, is part of the legacy of continuing these policies, which are anti black and harmful to the southern southern slave people. and so the speech and the whole charade around it actually expose it to be what it is. and that's a force. when full of calling was a policy, a foss, and a sharon linda. you were involved in the negotiations and took a long time to even get to that point where the dutch government was and we apologize for the people we enslaved says, do you see it in that way?

or are you saying it is something that's a much more positive? well, i see it as well. well, positive. it is something that had to be done. i mean, ferocity, apologies, are about for media. apologies. are about the recognition of the ancestors and the suffering. and they had, and the dutch government are taking responsibility for their actions. and i think i also think that we shouldn't, ah, ah, it um for, for us as her, as a country to move forward, to talk about maybe reparations to talk about a fixing what went wrong and not only in holland, but also in the dutch part of the crew, the caribbean, part of holland, and in sooner these apologies are very important. and i think it's the duty of the

civil society to make sure that these apologies get their value. so you can see that the recognition is very important, and that is the way that i like to look at it because we have a common ration of the ending of slavery for the 20 it years. and the main thing that i didn't like is that every time we had a somebody from the government, dutch government being there, but never acknowledging the ancestors and i think it should be about that also, quincy, your face is making all sorts of contortion. and so what i saw it on closing, i mean, monica is the one who, 10 years ago came to the commemoration of the abolition of slavery and told me and say, i'm not here with presence for you. i'm not going to save the institution. because as in his 1st cabinet on, the 1st thing he did is he cut off funding for programs and had to deal with people

of color had to migrant communities, maintenance will society. so having him be the one on the 19th of december off that they 300 years ago where one of these companies was started, that was part and parcel of colonialism and enslavement and slave trade is not just an offense, not just an insult, with adding um, salt to the rooms because what you know is this is when is he's claiming a part of this struggle while not acknowledging that people have been fighting for this for decades. for decades, not even mentioning them. he use a sentence where he said that this is a common matter as matter point, which is something that a black artist said armor and jalisa. and even within his speech, he couldn't get so far to even reference her. and mentioned her, i mean, this is all, this is such ridiculous miss and i'm looking at it. and the only thing that i can

understand why a lot of organizations are for it. and are you know, standing by it is because him, his cabinet have dangled 200000000 in front of them and promised them some money. that's what it base. no, no, no. i don't think that you know, the, the civic or the situation is, but it is. if you look at the 1st time that somebody of african descent, a said that we want apology for what was done to her and says it was 1995. all the cabinets that we had earlier, they didn't have the guts to do it. and what you were saying about nancy, it's true in 2011. the funding stopped, but that didn't stop us and bits and, and being here, still active. while it was not, it wasn't the case that we would be be here still, that pro said that you don't have to take matters as they are. we have our own agenda and that means fighting institutionalized racism. and we need some kind of

marking point where we can do it, and that's the situation we have. okay, i don't have the privilege to to, to be just skeptical. we have to look at the big picture. i say the money that quincy reference has the money that's been attached to the former policy so far is money for a savory museum and also money for raising awareness about the dutch transatlantic slave trade. i am going to go to reaction from a former a colony of ah, the netherlands, and that is the prime minister of saint martin. and her remarks are incredibly pointed and she is not happy. are mass have a listen to this. why with this happen? yes, yes, i address you today with mixed emotions and extend an invitation to openly dialogue on the ways to approach this abrupt and 1st apology for slavery

passed by the netherlands. along with my colleagues throughout the bridge caribbean, i find myself 1st to confront our traumatic histories. according to the schedule, and timeline set by the government of the netherlands. this appoint, he did not go down while i'm as forced on your schedule. this is not, this is not a good start. not the framework of the apology is the reason why there are mixed reactions. because there was a lack of consultation and not just consultations as such, but meaningful and effective consultation with the people, the descendant of those enslaved that is really crucial in the process. ease of reparations, true processes of reparations. because as i mentioned before,

an apology is one thing, but financial restitution should be the next step as well. and if you look also at other examples, it's not the 1st time that consultations effectively done have been missing and process ease of reckoning with colonial or slavery. another example would be germany, the in 2021. they finally recognized that the crime is committed during the colony of what is now an amount to genocide. however, what germany failed to do is really deliver a true apology that acknowledges the wrong committed by it and the true intention to repair the wrong by listening to the defendant of those directly affected by the colonies. so this statement by the, the statement by the german government, it was also hastily done, and the people, the nama, and the overhead are what impacted by the colonial crime. they were not homely consulted in advance in the no, maybe

a government which was present at that statement. delivery was even surprised by that statement. even though they were made formal counterparts of the negotiation process for reparations. so it shows that it is absolutely crucial that communities impacted people buying the crime are part of these process he's otherwise, the legitimacy of it is not there. and what you end up with is a rejection and outcry and, and not a true reckoning per se of slavery or colonial past. i have so many thoughts for law g chief audience. i'm gonna get you to address them very briefly. so we can get in as many as possible, linda, let me put this one to you. this is from julie. good. julie says, no apology is needed. that was another time. we were not. there. slavery has been around since the beginning of civilization. no money needs to be passed. linda instantly action place. no, that's not you. if you look at how,

how do you and then placement of people of african descent started. it started with permission after the catholic church in $1452.00. and specifically about a living people of african descent. i think that people should know and there is a lack of history knowledge about the history. there's lack of awareness. and i think that's very important to understand that all the views we have, people have on people of african descent stem from that time. and, and that was also, that is also recognized internationally by the un about european commission. so i mean, that will bring in another expert that we bring in another thought that is from route or we spoke to a little bit early. he's an artist and a curator, have a listen to him, quincy, and then immediately respond of the back of his thoughts. here we got the process leading up to the apology. that's what we should be aware of. i think there's

government has struck power play here. not respecting the different perspectives with india for dr. community and even not off their counterparts in overseas territories. that different governments and also foreign minister, also mark and for example, has saddle ready, 40 apologies that she wouldn't accept that. she turned to little bit in our point a few. but it shows you something about a colonizer mindset that we're still dealing with. we didn't dutch context printed, i think i, i think i wanna respond actually to a limb and the way in which she presented this idea. she doesn't have the space to be skeptical, and i think it's necessary to be skeptical degree, unless it's place that the privilege i said, i think if you ever you want still,

if you want. so because it, it is about the legacy of this history. it is about the way people in the caribbean, part of holland, in sewer nam people of african descent in holland how they can live their lives. so if, if i, if i could have the privilege to just look from one perspective, i would say, well, we're not satisfied what you see, that this after that the prime minister had spoken. oh, the most of the people who were skeptical, but just like, okay, he used the right word. what is the next step to do and for us, for us, the reparation agenda is the most important thing in 2011, everything that was about people of african descent was diminished. and you see the impact with her on our, by those in by the same man who also is in charge of a government when you not moving around one particular man. we're talking about

a legacy of colonialism and slaying high segue. why are you why you fixated on one pass and why you think solution on the messenger? ralph is a message just vaguely messenger is the message. i think what we're seeing here is a way in which conversations have been used to legitimize this for us in their defense in court. the government stated that they spoke with enough people to be able to present this. the people that they spoke with at the time had no clue that then later on 4 months later, however, months later they will be you, in this government push to force this apology on to communities. what we're seeing is white school manipulation. and we're seeing a lot of people actually going ahead with it because of different ways of thinking . oh, it's going to be okay. i want to chat. look, let me share with you sent to us because i think it pressure point in just a single image. so i'm going to share it on my laptop,

you can describe what we're seeing, and then we're gonna move on with some other contributors to the show would like to at that point of view as well. can you show us, tell us, what are we looking at here? so what we're seeing here is the family crest of a family policy agger and pelted either one of their descendants became the founder of the law firm, tulsa echo, who was now also the government lawyer in their family crest are 2 african heads to african heads in the family crest in europe usually means that they were slaves, traders if she go on the website, of course that i could, this is mentioned nowhere. and so they're the ones who were in court defending, defending the forcing of this apology. they're the ones who say there is no jericho, actual foundation basis for apology in the 1st place. while we're talking about a crime against humanity. i mean, this pretty much tells you the,

the in mesh ness of everything the entanglements of what we're seeing when we talk about apologies and operations. it's not just a question of a government is with all of these different. i'm going to push on that. i want to stand on it, linda, i'll come right back. you just just give me one moment. then it's really important to hear from voices from a outside of the netherlands as well. so she jer and roger put this video together for us. and they're instant martin, this is what they had to say about a full more piety. now what inside, once it might in this concern, the so kind of apology, but it does state for slavery past in our iron is unacceptable because it does not make a commitment for reformation as we move forward. and what we should be doing next is we should have a serious conversation about the colonial situation that exists in our country. the behavior of the dutch and reparation should be the main point of discussion. if

this is not the reality, then we cannot move forward. sure, decimal, so i think one of the interesting things, one interesting things about this as well is that the islands and all these different territories replaces a resource extraction for the development of europe, the development of the netherlands. what we're seeing is an equal access to comfort . we are comfortable here in the midlands versus the rest of the world. pays for our comfort, answered martin, or rober curacao. they had to cut their budget on health care job. and during a pandemic, the better government for them to cut their health care budget. if that is an anti black, that isn't institutional racism, i don't know what is, and that's not mentioned in my apologies. i mentioned in the text is not mentioned how to move forward by actually addressing these structural elements. when we go back, as i'm as at the very beginning of our conversation, you mentioned what happens next after a formal apology on twitter,

our audience have some suggestions. there needs to be reparations slave laborers must be compensated through their descendants. the benefits are visible everywhere . the form and manner must be agreed by all stakeholders, not the colonizer, again, determining critical next steps. this is the tricky bit. an apology needs to be followed by actions. very simplistic. ok. now what, what makes a good apology? are mass briefly? what are the ingredients? well, it's good apology means action to follow because i mean an apologies was so you know, they need to now put the money where their mouse is basically, you know, say it very informally. so reparation can take many forms. the restitution is one of them which is financial compensation because not only, you know where there were lice last, obviously during the time of labor reach,

but also the financial losses. and the inequities that ensued from slavery that are still held today by the people. whether that a lot of land or other economic losses. so the netherlands has a duty to now also provide financial compensation. and also sorry to draw again on that example of germany. i am from germany. so i have followed the recreation negotiation between germany and now maybe a very closely and it's a process that should not be replicated by the netherlands or by any other hallmark power. because yet, as i already mentioned, the consultation where became of the impact of people. but also the development aid that was offered by germany to be paid over 30 years is not what is understood by the camera peroration. it is not some kind of charity giving to the people,

but it should be true commitment to repair wrong ration. i'm going to, i'm going to thank younger i want to squeezing one more voice because this voice comes from the netherlands. parliament is an end pay who is very optimistic about the point that we are at right now in the netherlands with netherlands, slave trade history. this is dawn theda. the apologies were a very good step, but also feels like this is the beginning of a fate way forward of reconciliation. reconciliation between different po commute communities in the netherlands, both of the former colonies. and i also think this could be a way where we can communicate with dias for us of many other people. many other descendants of slaves of different countries like the u. k, or france, or, or, or, or different nations. this conversation is going online on youtube. there are lots of lots of thoughts here. bobby says about

the netherlands, the annual black face celebration. they like to have fun with the best apology is reparations. the dutch have a very dark history with racism. and then a benjamin is saying us black folk and the u. s. a. been fighting reparations and now the ground. so it's happening worldwide. thanks for your thoughts on you, chief on twitter. i'm as quincy and linda, we really appreciate you helping us understand what makes a good apology. how do you make a formal apology for enslaving millions of people? and so watching, i see next time pictures ah, in depth analysis of the days headlines from around the world. what it did was also to them they have to sign because they didn't, they wouldn't get in frank assessments. do you think diplomacy still spends

a chance? i'm not very up to about any kind of negotiation informed opinions. everybody tweets. everybody's on tick, tock, tick, tock doesn't vote. you have a winter, it's going to have a whole there. pretty soon, insight story on al jazeera. i all ready for the 1300000 football fan. i think that this is only the beginning, that equity always going to keep moving forward with that happen. make or break the moment 1st, then they go back to being given for thinking good sounds good. well, a happy trend fair. i can tell you that i don't discount australia because they're going to come out fighting and fighting at the end of an incredible remarks in

a row. and i think that up right there, you know, time that was a time to be direct. there basically on the verge of legalizing racial jerry battery to cut through the rhetoric. this isn't a universal death already crisis. the seems to be one of particular populations to dismantle the sound bites. there are lots and lots of women who are likely agenda a kind of anti feminist agenda and demand the truth. those the size of fascism. we have to really recognize what we're up and here we are determining what is the future of democracy in this country. join me more from on hill for up for what al jazeera lou.