museums or really dynamic spaces and that generates the generators of discussion of debate right from the stock. kathy has understood how important culture is and to communicating with the world and communicating its identity. its positioning. the world in baptist has grown angry and go, ah, more museums and galleries are plant designed as works of art in their own right. and holding influence that stretches far beyond their walls. alexey o'brien al jazeera doha, a powerful winter storm is making its way through the us and canada, bringing with it crippling snow is extremely cold. temperatures is being called at once in a generation type event that's disrupting air and land travel. showing on the busiest times of the year began in the pacific northwest on cheese and his heading east. expected to quickly strengthen by friday becoming. what meteorologists refer to as a bomb cyclone,

ah, this is out there, and these are the top stories. now. the korean forces are holding their ground against russian soldiers in the battle. for buck moot, russian troops could advance on other cities if they seize a territory in eastern ukraine. the credit president vladimir zalinski has visited washington dc to request more weapons from us. he told congress military support for ukraine's war we russia was an investment in global security and democracy and would like to thank you. thank you very much. thank you for both financial packages you have already provided us with. and there was, you may be willing to decide on your money is not sheree team is an investment in the global security and democracy that we handle in the most

responsible way. floods triggered by monsoon rains of killed at least 5 people and forced nearly 65000 from their homes. northern malaysia evacuations are under way and more. rain is predicted the world health organization is urging beijing to provide more detailed information on cobra. 19 infections in china, numbers of cases have been rising since the government began easing restrictions, but deaths from the virus have stayed low after china change its criteria for recording them is only counting those due to login or spiritual failure. israel's longest serving prime minister benjamin netanyahu says he has secured a last minute deal to form a new government. if a yahoo had faced a midnight deadline to arrange a coalition, the agreement follows weeks in negotiations with religious and far right. coalition partners for his president in that widow r tahas carried out a major cabinet. we shuffle, appointing, a new prime minister in finance. chief,

it came hours after she won approval from congress to bring for the elections to 2024. and the un security council has adopted its 1st set resolution on me and mine decades is demanding an end to violence and urges agenda to release all political prisoners including ousted leader and sang su, chief of us, are the headlines. news continues herron al jazeera. thus, after the st, we understand the differences and similarities of cultures across the world. so no matter where you call hand al jazeera will bring you the news and current affairs that mattie al jazeera good. i asked me ok, you're watching the stream. how do you say, sorry for slavery, this,

how the doth dutch government apologize for its part in the transatlantic slave trade? let's get documents de knew it is true that nobody alive today bears any personal guilt for slavery. but it is also true that the dutch state, in all its manifestations, through history, bears responsibility for the immense suffering that has been done to those who are enslaved and their descendants. and now santa chicago from thus be acknowledged today on behalf of the dutch governments, i apologize for the past actions at the dutch state to enslaved people in the past . everywhere in the world who suffered as a consequence of those actions, as well as to their daughters and sons. and to all their descendants. up to the present day, thought that he had an devlin's prime minister, margaret his official apology, received and mixed reactions. let's see what you had to say on twitter to us. an apology without reparation is just an excuse. and what or

sorry, do rewrite the past. apology alone isn't enough, but it is a good start. what he think on you chief, i comment section is live. your very well could be part of this program, but your thoughts are right here. ah. so how do you address the challenges and issues when it comes to making a formal apology for slavery? helping us have that conversation. linda quincy allies. so good to have all 3 of you with us, linda. please say hello to our audience around the world. tell them who you are, what you do. hello everybody. my name is linda noise mirror, and i'm the, the chair of the dutch of nancy board and then say is the gosh, institute on slavery and it's legacy get to having quincy, i should say, welcome back to the stream. it's been a few years, but it's always going to have you,

please say hello to our audience around the world. i am gregario, i'm an artist unemployed. at 8 years ago, i was on the stream talking about the other dutch proctors called black feeds. and so i'm here again to be a bit of a trouble maker here to have here. hello alice. nice to have you on the street. please say hello to our audience around the world. tell them who you are. what you do. i am asked her and i am the researcher on racism in europe for human rights watch, which is a global human rights organization. all right, i'm as an apology for slavery. if you are a country that was a former colonial country who enslaved people, does a party have to come at some point? you have to say, sorry, yes. so the 1st reaction is that this is a big deal for the prime minister and other ones to acknowledge that the duct they'd enabled, encouraged,

and profited from slavery for centuries. so the recognition that the crimes amount to crimes against humanity was ongoing impact on descendants of in slave people, the path for accountability of the netherlands and further action. so the formal apology is therefore an important 1st step, but certainly not the last step toward a reckoning with its slavery path. and also the impact it has had on descendants of unsafe people to day and allowing for healing. also for a descendant of those in slaves, many of whom also live in the netherlands. so you could say, obviously, you know, that this apology is coming 150 years too late. but it is necessary. it's nevertheless, signal of change that needed to now be translated into further action. so the apology is just it 1st step. reparations to right the wrongs can take many forms, including such a formal apology and the acknowledgment of wrongs committed,

but financial restitution and other com. the preparations, they need to follow now as well. all right, so the 1st step, quincy, when you saw your appointment, if there were so many rumors that the dutch government were about to apologize for the transatlantic slave trade. so, on monday, the 19th of december, it wasn't really a big surprise. your reaction when you saw and heard the apology. i mean, when you look at a speech, i'm more carefully you realize of actually what he did is he sidestep the possible ways of getting any financial restitution any reparations. because he said that based on the laws of today, what happened in the past was our k. he didn't say that what happened in the past was not okay based on what happened in the past. so what you get is an apology, which is actually a means to curtail any type of operations. and one of the things which is really

fascinating when you listen to market, to present this. this is someone who in 2003, i stayed secretary implemented a policy which was basically racist. r that's court in 2007 labeled races. he became prime minister in 2010 with the help of the most racist party we have in parliament. he stepped down with his last cabinet because of institutional racism and none of that is mentioned in the, in the speech. none of that is mentioned that he, himself, personally, is part of the legacy of continuing these policies, which are anti black and harmful to the southern southern slave people. and so the speech and the whole charade around it actually expose it to be what it is. and that's a force when full of pulling was a policy a, fos, and a, sharon, linda, you were involved in negotiations and took a long time to even get to that point. when a dutch government was sent, we apologize for the people we enslaved says,

do you see it in that way? or are you seeing it as something that's a much more post? well, i see it as well while positive. it is something that had to be done. i mean, ferocity, apologies, are about for me to apologise, are about the recognition of the ancestors and the suffering, and they had, and the dutch government taking responsibility for their actions. and i think i also think that we shouldn't m o m 4 for us as her, as a country to move forward to talk about maybe reparations to talk about. i'm fixing what went wrong and not only in holland, but also in the dutch part of the crew, the caribbean, part of holland, and in sooner these apologies are very important. and i think it's the duty of the

civil society to make sure that these apologies get their value. so you can see that the recognition is very important. and that is the way that i like to look at it because we have a, a common ration of the ending of slavery for the 20th years. and the main thing that i didn't like is that every time we had a somebody from the government, dutch government being there, but never acknowledging the ancestors and i think it should be about that also, quincy, your face is making all sorts of contortions as though it is so if you are closing i mean mark is the one who, 10 years ago came to the commemoration of the abolition of slavery and told me and say, i'm not here with preference for you. i'm not going to save the institution. because as in his 1st cabinet, when the 1st thing he did is he cut off funding for programs and had to deal with

people of color, how to migrant communities, migrant to society. so having him be the one on the 19th of december of the day 300 years ago where one of these companies was started, that was part and parcel of colonialism and enslavement and slave trade is not just an offense, not just an insult, with adding um, salt to the rooms because what he knows this is doing is he's claiming a part of this struggle while not acknowledging that people have been fighting for this for decades. for decades, not even mentioning them. he use a sentence where he said that this is a common matter. it's not a point which is something that a black artist said said anna, an jalisa. and even within his speech, he couldn't get so far to even reference her. and mentioned her, i mean, this is all, this is such ridiculousness and i'm looking at it. and the only thing that i can

understand why a lot of organizations are for it. and i, you know, standing by it is because him his cabinet of dialogue, 200000000 in front of them and promised them some money. that's what it base. no, no, i don't think that you know, the, the civic or the situation is but it is if you look at the 1st time that somebody of african descent, a said that we want apology for what was done to her and says this was 1995 all the cabinets that we had earlier, they didn't have the guts to do it. and what you were saying about and then say it's true in 2011, the funding stopped, but that didn't stop us and bits and being here, still active. while it was not, it wasn't the case that we would be be here still, that pro said that you don't have to take matters as they are. we have our own agenda and that means fighting institutionalized racism. and we need to some kind

of marking point where we can do it, and that's the situation we have. i'm going to have the privilege to, to, to be just skeptical. we have to look at the bigger picture. i said, the money that quincy reference has the money that's been attached to the former policy so far is money for a slavery museum and also money for raising awareness about the dutch transatlantic slave trade. i am going to go to a reaction from a former a colony of, ah, the netherlands, and that is the prime minister of saint martin. and her remarks are incredibly pointed, and she is not happy. i'll mass have a listen to this. why with this happen? yes, yes, i address you today with mixed emotions and extend an invitation to openly dialogue on the ways to approach this abrupt and 1st apology for slavery

passed by the netherlands. along with my colleagues throughout the bridge caribbean, i find myself 1st to confront our traumatic histories. according to the schedule, and timeline set by the government of the netherlands. this a point he didn't go down while i'm as force on your schedule. this is not, this is not a good start. not the framework of this apology is the reason why there are mixed reactions. it's because there was a lack of consultation and not just consultations as such but meaningful and effective consultation with the people. the descendants of those and slaves that are really crucial in process ease of reparations,

true processes of reparations. because as i mentioned before, an apology is one thing, but financial restitution should be the next step as well. and if you look also at other examples, it's not the 1st time that consultations effective to be done have been missing and process ease of reckoning with colonial or slavery. another example would be germany, the in 2021. they finally recognized that the crime is committed during its colony and what is now namibia amount to genocide. however, what germany failed to do is really deliver a true apology that acknowledges the wrong committed by it and the true intention to repair the wrong by listening to the descendants of those directly affected by the colonies. so this statement by the, the statement by the german government, it was also hastily done and the people, the nama, and the overhead were impacted by the colonial crime. they were not homely consulted in advance in the no, maybe

a government which was present at that statement. delivery was even surprised by that statement. even though they were made formal counterparts of the negotiation process for reparations. so it shows that it is absolutely crucial that communities impacted people buying the crime are part of the process or otherwise the legitimacy of it is not there. and what you end up with is a rejection and outcry and, and not a true reckoning per se of slavery or colonial past. i have so many thoughts for my g chief audience. i'm gonna get you to address them very briefly. so we can get in as many as possible, linda, let me put this one to you. this is from julie. good. julie says, no apology is needed. that was another time. we were not. there. slavery has been around since the beginning of civilization. no money needs to be paid in that instant reaction please. now that's not sure if you look at how,

how do you and then placement of people of african descent started. it started with permission after the catholic church in $1452.00. and specifically about a and slipping people of african descent. i think that people should know and there is a lack of history knowledge about the history. there's a lack of awareness and i think this is very important to understand that all the views we have, people have on people of african descent stem from that time. and, and that was also, that is also recognized internationally by the un about european commission. so i mean, that will bring in another expert that we bring in another thought that is from route who we spoke to a little bit early. he's an artist and a curator, have a listen to him, quincy, and then immediately respond of the back of his thoughts. here we got the process leading up to the apology. that's what we should be aware of. i think there's

government as a struck power play here, not respecting the different perspectives within the effort community and even not of their counterparts in the overseas territories and different governments and also foreign minister often market for example, has already been 40, apologies that she wouldn't accept that she turns the little bit in our point of view, but it shows you something about a colonizer mindset that we're still dealing with. we didn't dutch context when to i think i, i think i want, i respond actually to linda and the way in which she presented this idea. she doesn't have the space to be skeptical. i don't think it's necessary to be skeptical unless it's place that the privilege i said, i think if you ever you want still, if you want to, because it,

it is about the legacy of this history. it is about the way people in the caribbean, part of holland, in sewer nam people of african descent in holland how they can live their lives. so if, if i, if i could have the privilege to just look from one perspective, i would say, well, we're not satisfied what you see, that this after that the prime minister had spoken. oh, the most of the people who were skeptical, but just like ok, he used the right word. what is the next step to do and for us, for us, the reparation agenda is the most important thing in 2011, everything that was about people of african descent was diminished. and you see the impact reset. this error on our, by those is a man by the same man who also is in charge of a government when you not moving around one particular man. we're talking about

a legacy of colonialism and saying, hey segue. why are you? why you fixated on one pass and why you think solution on the messenger rather than the message just vaguely messenger is the message. i think what we're seeing here is a way in which conversations have been used to legitimize this for us in there, the fence in court. the government stated that they spoke with enough people to be able to present this. the people that they spoke with at the time had no clue that then later on 4 months later, however, months later they will be you, in this government push to force this apology on to communities. what we're seeing is white school manipulation. and we're seeing a lot of people actually going ahead with it because of different ways of thinking . oh, it's going to be ok. i want to just look, let me share with you sent to us because i think it pressure point in just a single image. so i'm going to share it on my laptop,

you can describe what we're seeing, and then we're gonna move on with some other contributors to the show who would like to at that point of view as well. can you show us tell us, what are we looking at here? so what we're seeing here is the family crest of the family policy, dagger, and bell said either one of their descendants became the founder of the law firm. tells riker who is now also the government lawyer in their family crest are 2 african heads to african. the headsman family crest in europe usually means that they were slaves. traders if she go on the website of course that i could, this is mentioned nowhere. and so they're the ones who were in court defending, defending the forcing of this apology. they're the ones who say there is no jericho actual foundation basis for college in the 1st place. while we're talking about a crime against humanity. i mean, this pretty much tells you the,

the in mesh nest of everything the entanglements of what we're seeing when we talk about apologies and operations. it's not just the question of a government is with all of these different, or i'm going to push on that. i want to sleep in a little window. i'll come right back. you just discuss me one minute. then it's really important to hear from voices from outside of the netherlands as well. so she cher and roger put this video together for us, and they're instant martin. this is what they had to say about a formal apology. now what inside, once it maintenance concern, the so kind of apology, but it does state for slavery past in our iron is unacceptable because it does not make a commitment for reformation as we move forward. and what we should be doing next is we should have a serious conversation about the colonial situation that exists in our country. the behavior of the dutch and reparation should be the main point of discussion. if

this is not the reality, then we cannot move forward. just decimal. so one of the interesting things, one interesting things about this as well is that the islands and all these different territories replaces a resource extraction for the development of europe, the development of the netherlands. what we see is an equal access to comfort. we are comfortable here in the midlands versus the rest of the world pace for our comfort onset, martin or rober curacao. they had to cut their budget on health care job. and during the pandemic, the better government for them to cut their health care budget. if that is an anti black, that isn't institutional racism, i don't know what is in that mentioned in the apologies are not mentioned in the text. it's not i mentioned how to move forward by actually addressing these structural elements. when we go back to m as m, as at the very beginning of our conversation, you mentioned what happens next after a formal apology on twitter,

our audience have some suggestions. there needs to be reparations. slave laborers must be compensated through their descendants. the benefits are visible everywhere . the form and manner must be agreed by all stakeholders. not the colonizer, again, determining critical next steps. this is the tricky bet. an apology needs to be followed by actions, very simplistic. ok. now what, what makes a good apology? our mass briefly, what are the ingredients? well, it's good apology means action to follow because i mean an apologies was so you know, they need to now put the money where their mouth is basically, you know, say it very informally. so reparation can take many forms. the restitution is one of them which is financial compensation because not only, you know where there were life last, obviously during the time of labor reach,

but also the financial losses. and the inequities that ensued from slavery that are still held today by the people. whether that a lot of land or other economic losses. so the netherland has a duty to now also provide financial compensation. and also, sorry to draw again on that example of germany. i am from germany. so i have followed the reparations negotiations between germany and now maybe a very closely and it's a process that should not be replicated by the netherlands or by any other hallmark power. because yet, as they're already mentioned, the consultations were mccain of the impact of people. but also the development aid that was offered by germany to be paid over 2 years is not what is understood by the camera peroration. it is not some kind of charity giving to the people,

but it should be true commitment to repair wrong. i'm ration, i'm going to, i'm going to thank you. i'm good. i want to squeezing one more voice because this voice comes from the netherlands. parliament is an end pay who is very optimistic about this point that we are at right now in the netherlands with netherlands, slave trade history. this is dawn theda. the apologies were very good step, but it also feels like this is the beginning of a phase way forward of reconciliation. reconciliation between different po commute communities in the netherlands, both of the former collins. and i also think this could be a way where we can communicate with dias forrest of many other people. many other descendants of slaves of different countries like the u. k, or france, or, or, or, or different nations. this conversation is going online on youtube. there are lots of,

lots of thoughts here. bobby says about benevolence. the annual black face celebration they like to have fun with the best apology is reparations. a dutch have a very dark history with racism. and then a benjamin was saying us black folk in the u. s. a. been fighting reparations. and now the ground, so it's happening worldwide. thanks for your thoughts on you cheve. on twitter, i'm as quincy and linda, we really appreciate you helping us understand what makes a good apology. how do you make a formal apology for enslaving millions of people? and so what changes i seen exxon take? ah is abandoned as a child by his ha cristella. nothing of his early life in the republic of hunger. after 40 years living in switzerland, cristella follows

a fascinating paper trail that leads from his adopted home to the country of his birth. and the most unexpected re union witness. earlier on al jazeera, what happens when the news media failed to do their job? it's one of the biggest reasons why iraq is not a democracy. there's no accountability. the listening post exposes the powers, controlling the narrative. russian media does a lot of favorably. his method has to be back by the whole propaganda, but app of and the tools they used to do it. how do you read through all of them information? how do you determine what is this and promotion with the listening post your guide to the media on al jazeera, we are all christmas. even people far away are so helping with the environment, problems in the amazon, because they are consumers. i teach kids about the threats that are oceans are

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