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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  December 30, 2022 2:30pm-3:01pm AST

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almost a london suburb, he says, people are grateful for the wealth generated by migrations of britain fuel the local economy, but wintering young population is a problem for the town was discarded on regions. roads is so dilapidated that it's difficult to reach many villages. it's impossible for people to live in these areas . so the only option they have is to migrate. there is simply a lack of effective policies or investment from the central government to keep people in albania. the british government says albania is a safe country. it's planning to go to laws to stop legal. i'll pay new arrivals once described by persons who minister as an invasion to ron is accused london of whipping up anti albanian sentiment. but the u. k. 's approach may not deter some people who say they have little to lose a chance for a better life. natasha butler al jazeera, half of a new ah,
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so this is 0. these are the top stories and me a mas ousted leader. and since she has been found guilty of 5 charges of corruption, she was sentenced in a military court to 7 years in jail and 77 year old was already serving a 26 year sentence rather offensive. she denies the allegations, aerospace, with time on a beating. he says that several countries have spoken out in recent months. minima remains in crisis. they've condemned and criticized the me in my position to varying degrees. because while the criticism may have been a verbal, it's not necessarily in terms of action. now the un action, the mention occurred earlier on this week where there was a un council resolution, the 1st one on me and more since it gained independent 75 years ago. condemning outright what has been going on in me and demanding that to be set free. and that action be taken towards restoring democracy in the country. legendary brazilian
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football appellate his died at the age of 82 had been ongoing treatment undergoing treatment for colon cancer. the hospital in south tyler fell, is widely considered the greatest of all time. cranes f. o says it shot down all the time because he drained, sent by rush river night. about, came a day after russia lost one of his biggest missile strikes from the country since the start of the war. malaysia will start testing waste water for trace the code 19 on planes arriving from china. the country will also screen travelers, body temperatures on arrival. to move comes off to china, east restrictions fucking cases. ethnic serbs have been removing barricades in northern kosovo hours after authorities reopen, the main crossing was serbia protest this had demonstrated for weeks of the detention of a sub former police officer. he's been moved to house arrest. the serbian government has pulled back its troops from an area near the cause of a border. the death toll from my gas tank. a blouse in south africa on saturdays,
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clung to study for the country's health department, says 11 health workers and 23 civilians were killed. explosion damaged local hospital and destroyed several houses local media, se authorities released the truck driver on wednesday, a state but headlines. more news coming up right after inside story i found, ah, with after weeks of protests, ethics serves and casa agreed to take down their barricades, hope so high that the latest layer of intentions will now calm down the how fragile is the peace between serbs and cost of us, this isn't so strong. ah
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hello, welcome to the program on the wrong con, call. suppose uneasy peace has once again come on the threat. this time from protest by a think serves that lasted weeks in a display of how delicate the situation is there a single incident, the detention of a former castillo. so police officer ended up drawing in the u. s. the e. u and serbia to diffuse a dangerous stand off the form, officers arrest lead to spiraling violence with gunfire. arson attacks and ethics serves blocking roads with barricades the now being taken down. but the political barriers remain, does not to the 2 or sutra. from the morning hours, the removal of the barricades will begin. this is not a simple process and can't be done in 2 hours as some have imagined. within 24 to 48 hours, the barricades will be removed, but distrust is not removed. those who are playing with the very existence of serbs
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and kosovo must know that we will not allow it. not now, nor in the future. and russell's adar has law from christina, there has been a tremendous pressure from, particularly from the european union and the united states over did the course away . and did the serbian government, he had to, to deescalate the situation here because the concern, the fear among the european companies and viewed by the united states is that russia will be keen to open up a 2nd fraud after the war in the ukraine to open up a 2nd front of consultation in the heart of europe, and that, that is definitely something that needs of national community is quite concern off a scene here. so that's why the pressure is ramping up over both governments to deescalate the situation. but the situation still here remain fragile, and anytime it cool escalate again. crystal said that for inside story,
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kosovo declared independence from serbia in 2008. that was 10 years after at least $13000.00 people were killed in the cost of a war. where ethnic albanians fought ethnic serbs and the former yugoslav government the u. s. and most e. u. country is recognized costello's independence, but serbia refuses to cost those membership of the un is blocked by soviet allied russia. about 4000 nato peacekeeping troops remain on the ground after the alliance bond survey, and intervened to end the conflict in 1999, the you began sponsoring talks between the 2 sides in 2013, but they've made little progress. resolving the conflict is one of the main conditions for both countries to join the block. ah, let's bring in our 3 guess from budapest memos. ok, sorry, let. she's the former deputy prime minister of casa vote. and a current member of parliament from belgrade. helena, even off, she is an associate research fellow at the henry jackson society,
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anna serbia analyst, and finally from grass florian bieber. he is a professor of south east european history and politics and the director of the center for south eastern european studies at the university of grass. i will come to you all. i'd like to begin in belgrade with the helena even of um, at the heart of all of this. and this is something that flared up from time to time is serbia's refusal to recognize costello as an independent state. one of the barriers to that well, i think you very obviously this is a situation whereby serbia and its government feel that a part of its territory has unilaterally declared independence. and from belgrade point of view, recognition of costello is just not an option. the 2nd concerned that the serbian government has as well is the safety and security of the serbs who live in the north. and lately they have been communicating that they do not have the confidence that coastal authorities will indeed protect the serbs who live in northern
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costello. and i think, you know, from customer's point of view, anything but a complete independence is also an acceptable. so we basically have 2 sites with completely mutually exclusive political aims, mimosa casara lela. why don't you look off to the ethnic serbs in the north of the country? why didn't you simply give them the right so they need that's what august and bill greater say actually, mr. cron. i think the main deficiency here is the lack of principles and proper arguments because in cost about their 10000 with majority of serbian population for out of 10 are located in the north of the country. and it's not a matter of not giving them the right their reach, requesting. it's a matter of using them to instrumental lies their policy in the country of possible and counsel has been in dependence in 2008 the case in 2010 is the national court of justice. ben are no violation for national law. so the declaration of
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independence, the customer has been in full importance with international law and also be right off everyone who lives in costs including albanian served inserts and other minorities is fully legitimate. so what we are facing now is the last mechanism of alexander, which is the president, the 3rd be to play an interview or interfere in cost of affairs. actually the most important is the state that the reason i have not happened by of being in possible being a snore institution by, by 30, again, directly orchestrated by fuji's. we had a lot of properties being damaged. we had cars burn that work as a fine to possibly serve that you don't actually obey because we were threats in use. so i think this is the last chain off attempt to
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actually full cost along under their direction or intervene in possible affairs. but as we've seen it, it's not the 1st of all and 2nd grade needs to go off of a 3rd living in the north to live there live in independent possible as it's actually the situation with other search list on the south part of florida. i'm going to bring you in in just a 2nd, but i would like to get her helena's thoughts on those comments or the ethnic serbs being used as a political tool by belgrade. well, you know, as, as i always say in my research, i think politicians across the globe and serbia is not always an exception. here. do play the nationalist card whenever they see it convenient for their political gains. however, the fact that that is sometimes potentially done is not the same as saying that certain concerns that, that's in the north might have a, not legitimate. and you know,
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one of the things that's always been the most difficult part of negotiations between belgrade and police. dina is the association and it's a police officer in the north which is something that they are requiring to do. so i think that i think the situation is a bit more complicated and complex rather than just one side using sobs from the north for their political gains. let me bring in florian beaver here florian, is it much more complicated or then it one side using another? well, i mean, it of course is complicated. i mean, i think it's very clear that the prime, you know, responsibility for the escalation we've seen in recent weeks has been the kind of very heavy handed kind of response to cost of was attempting to reduce uniform license plates across the country by belgrade. and encouraging kosovo serbs in the north to respond in a very intense manner. that doesn't mean that there aren't legitimate grievances. i would agree with. i know that there are concerns. it's not that they don't have the minority rights. the rights are well established. it's just about kind of making
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a credible offer by the cost of ones to to should sometimes to really incorporate the serbs to give them a sense that it's also they are state. and this kind of sense of unease is something which, which is playing on is amplifying. and of course, he is controlling it. and we have to keep in mind that the main political party absorbs in the, in cos, is basically controlled by belgrade. and so belgrade tells the cost was served political representatives what to do, including a few weeks ago to withdraw from the institutions of cost of what all that really has been heating of the tension that it goes back to a point which helena was saying earlier about you know, is kosovo insistent independence. i mean, that's a normal after 13 years of independence and survey doesn't accept it. but the question is really why i was still in this place after 10 years of dialogue between serbian kosovo, mediated by the european union. why haven't we moved towards a more calmer relations not recognition,
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but just an environment where those kind of tensions, unimaginable. i think they're the prime responsibility. realize with serbia not trying to a certain way, calm the atmosphere and moving towards accepting the status quo. it doesn't mean recognition, but it just means accepting the fact that there's a government constable which acts like a states. as an interesting question, let's ask it to mendoza. casara. lila, why have these talks failed? why have we even not go to a place where you can have an environment for talks actually because the box failed. as i beginning started being at the beginning of this interview. it was not a matter of on principles. there was no respect on the agreement. it was always very hard to implement agreement speaking, 1st of all, and then the 2nd, it was created a sense that within these 10 years of intensive talks, oper, vine, and then as a later time, let's pretend because there was
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a different approach of serbia on the grounds versus what it was discuss what was trying to reach in brussels during the past 10 years. we had served yet increasing the number of the military presence around the border. because of all, we have the situation actually even more than a rather been improving in between 253. in particular when it comes to a security and the presence off in terms of what happened in the north. we had the agreement on the region of serbs in the northern me, it's about this incarcerated. but then as we've seen, it recently have been directly under the director of which is also in relation to what to be with being earlier on the representation on that one party representing a parliament other institution. we've seen that their reaction has not been the representation on representing actually the need of customer service be that in the
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nor oriented, but more recognized in which is all possible. so as a member of parliament in the 2nd he turns, i've seen that i've never followed there and he's had raised our daily lives. a 3rd mostly had been regarding or intervening about any request that came directly. hello. can you just explain to us what bell grades point of view is why of these talks filed well in belgrade when of you, or at least how the government is arguing. basically they're saying that in the latest months, any attempt to negotiate have failed. because they argue that kosovo authorities don't seem to be willing to negotiate anymore. it is basically the statement that we can hear, but to say almost any time he leaves brussels. and one particular point of condensation has been the association of certain municipalities in northern causal . and i think, you know, if, if we're going to look at it from an objective point of view, i think one of the big reasons as to why negotiations are not working is because
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both sides are often resorting to blaming the other side and to not at all looking at the potential problems that they themselves are posing that that's exactly why i said at the beginning that this picture is way more complicated in serbia, always having its behavior and like at its best, no has service, sometimes frustrated negotiations. most certainly, but has kosovo done the same. absolutely. yes. this is that, that's what i'm saying. i think trying to see this thing from the other side point of view and trying to stand the other side, grievances might actually be a better way forward when it comes to when it comes to negotiations, memos or get your thoughts or just a 2nd body want to bring in florida and vba, florida. it's very difficult to negotiate anything when there's a massive troop build up on your border, as we've seen. happen quite regularly from serbia. is that part of the problem? well, i mean, the stroke build ups, i'm more bluster. i mean, you know, really, you know, crossover is protected by a nature lead peacekeeping troops for serbia to imagine crossing this boundary or
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border, you know, this would escalate things survey doesn't want to risk awards nato. so i think this is not really to be taken seriously. i think much more serious is the fact that serbia has been intervening indirectly into casa, both through it's in are kind of more elicit less visible security structures. but i think what, what is really the case and this is, i mean some of the blame needs to go back to the european union. and i would agree with the other. busy both countries have not been implementing all of the commitments they've signed up to. the problem is all of the commitments they've signed up to over the last decade, including the 1st can break through brussels agreement 9 years ago. um are very lacking in detail. so we don't know exactly what did they sign up to and they're kind of more like statements of intent. and because they didn't want to kind of commit to a full contract. and so we don't really know who is to blame for non implementation . it's true that both sides have not lived up to the commitments they have made on paper,
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but those commitments are very thin. so when helena was talking about the cert municipal association of municipalities, which is supposed to be established, there's great controversy. whether that's kind of another layer of government, as serbia argues, or whether as kosovo argues, it's just kind of more informal network of those of those municipalities. and right . both sides are back because the anticipating some. busy talk about the final status which would entail some kind of recognition by serbia customer. that's why it's hard to move forward. unless you're in listening intently that will florian was saying, you agree that both sides have actually no implemented the agreements that they were supposed to. absolutely not for the 1st and the most important fact that the agreement was supposed to be and the discussion and negotiation normalization of relations between 2 countries evolving in a final recognition and mutual recognition that the 2nd is that has been so much changing within this decade in the dialogue as well,
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and this is when i initially mention that there are no principal and values because if it is the principle that 2 countries have to normalize relations and actually discuss about the full normalization that he's not about discussing about internal affairs of the other country, if for example, and principal system, if we're talking about the minority, right. or asking for the association of municipalities of serving. so then we can ask the question back to serbia, are you willing to establish the association of omarian's municipalities in serbia or other minorities is 3rd? yeah. first of all, 2nd, the initial agreement that was signed in 2013 and then re negotiated 2015 with additional layers that was declared against it was the grad actually in violation of our past. had foreseen the association of all then, municipalities of with majority of serbian population to engage or be a part of the association of serbia municipalities. whereas from 2017 to 2020,
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we had a discussion for the changes of borders. helena, what we're hearing from a florian vba is that needs to be some movement in the tools for both sides to get round the table. if you can agree on some things than the other, things don't seem to be that big a deal anymore. and agreements can be made, but having listened to what melissa is saying, you seem to be very, very far away from even the basics. there's no agreements in the near future, right. i would completely agree with that. and i think that is exactly why, for instance, the car registration plays escalated as much as it did. i know that to someone who is not from the region of doesn't follow the context of the region. it might seem a bit even silly that something like her registration phase can escalate to a point in which it did. the problem is that for the 2 sides, this is either seen as giving up sovereignty from serbia's point of view or substantially gaining sovereignty from customer's point of view. and that's the reason why it is so hard to get the deal, because any even minor deals, any administrative deals at their bottom at their higher,
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i actually about sovereignty. whether cause was gaining it or whether so be, is losing it, which is light is extremely, extremely difficult. you come up with a deal that that would work. and when you added the fact that you know that his eyes are more focused on blaming one another than actually trying to find a functional language. that just yet another level of obstacles for reaching the function of the uh, between the 2 sites. florian, we are talking about 2 very young states here, both of them that fought a battle fur national identity off of the breakup of former yugoslavia. all of that has to play into this, right. it's about national identity serenity. as helena says, indeed it is, but you know, 10 years ago it looked a lot more promising that these things would become less front and center of the process. i mean, the, you really put the incentive for both to move beyond on the table by saying if you come to a settlement, membership is more likely you're going to join the union. and this is really where the whole thing has been stumbling attraction of joining the european union,
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much less they are than it was a decade ago, especially in serbia. there's barely a majority vote favor of joining the you and the government has been cut deliberately down, playing the attractiveness of your membership and the duties on part. and that really undermines this whole, the sort of way to transform does not into a 0 or a 0 sum game into something where actually both parties stand to win. and this is really where, where things are stuck in many ways without an offer for both, especially for serbia, which can live with the state of school, much better than coastal can. there's really no way of moving things out of it. and let's keep in mind the current conflict is all triggered by the fact that germany, france put a proposal on the table, which would normalize relations without serbia recognizing possible. and it's really in response to this proposal that things have escalated to largely degree because serbia has no interest in this proposal because this would actually kind of reduce tensions and would not allow it for the serbian government to use it for
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domestic purposes. and this is, you know, the main kind of immediate trigger which brought this escalation about and recent months. now most a work flooring baby seems to be saying is that one of the big incentives of peace is a european union membership. a certain in serbia that is known as popular as perhaps it once was in an even in causal about maybe not as popular as it was will. so what is the incentive full piece for you guys? it's very important actually to focus on day right. of the communities in including serbian community. i think we're the sorry that was presented right? ration independence in the rights of minority. so are definitely much more advanced than maybe in some of the countries. and if we are focusing on implementing those right and cooperating and include increasing the dialogue between customers and their being community living in for north need this, i think this is the
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a major improvement actually includes customer, internal affairs. whereas in relation to serbia, i think just a matter of applicable international law, the same as it was with the ruler of international court of justice. that was independence did not violate international law. this should be a good ground and we're talking about your serbia. that is a country that has a state as a candid entry for the european union, and i think it has to be more advanced. definitely in actually reflecting on the principles of and the rights of communities in serbia or other majorities, either mine or just shoot me a time. and it's a very interesting point you make. i do want to bring it up with helena. i mean, there is a law of diminishing returns here. the has had a role for 10 years. however, it seems to get weaker every stage of negotiation over the stage. now,
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where the role is just simply unhelpful. well, i wouldn't say that it is unhelpful. i think the international community presence is something that is often crucial for the escalating any tensions as we've seen in the last few days. and as we've seen in the summer. i also think that the international community involvement in general is serving is a very good turns for both sides not to overly escalate. so i wouldn't say that it's not helpful. what i would say, however, is that it's leverage and its ability to respond effectively or to really influence the relevant actors is decreasing over the years. partly because the confidence, at least on service from fabulous point of view, the confidence that somebody will ever really joined to block is incredibly low because the negotiations have been dragging on. and you know, that's, that's what i think is actually the case with foreign lever. if moscow simply turned around and said, ok, you guys make peace, peace, what happened? right? well, i don't think so. i mean, you know, service pursuing its own interest,
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its own agenda. it's not, not really. you know, it's, it's looking for protection from russia when it comes to your membership of kosovo, but services on actor has its own interest. and it's going to do what, you know, especially the current government. we have to also distinguish between society at large and the government. the government has a particular agenda that's keeping the status quo because it's also domestically. we have to keep in mind, serbia has becoming less democratic over the last decade. it's been the government of which has been really, really downgrading media freedoms independent institutions. and so to sort of the way the cost of a conflict helps him to distract from this issue. and so from that point of view, he does what he sees in his best interest, no matter what you know, other actors might say, melissa, what do you think of that? would you think the of the idea actually russia doesn't have that much of a role to play? and so anyway, i know you've been critical of those things before. well, actually i somehow find a different opinion. i think there is a major role of serbia. however,
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considering the recent events in particular of young promote a freshman, there were 3 and actually a statement on dividing itself from that in the sense yes, now and be international or in b r for serbia is not a very beneficial point. when it comes to the question, i think there is been focus in general actually right over the events of 99. so be a last were and then find again in a dialogue something that is lost during the work. and that is very destructive of even itself because you are not thinking about the piece and you're not thinking regardless of what they're saying, you're not in the normalization, but you're thinking of how you actually can switch. the reality that happened in the ground that had been developed on, in recent years, including the declaration of independence, b, b. i tried to get some, but you're actually, i mean everything as big as it happens the band with
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and with actually be the customer that have been in position in music. i want to thank all our guests, missouri casara, lila, helena, even off and florian beaver. and i want to thank you as well for watching. now you can see the program again anytime, bye, this thing always like out there a dot com for further discussion, go to a facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash asia inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter . handle is at asia in touch story for me and ron khan and the whole team here ah ah.
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and a african narrative from african perspectives embark on emma, what about a new series of short documentaries, by african filmmakers from nigeria, south africa and cameron rule you out your property, corporate space and turn it into a portfolio as don't crush a song gorilla garden and modern peanuts of camera africa direct on al jazeera. we don't simply focus on the politics of the conflict. if the human suffering that we report, we brave bullet the bomb and we always include the views from all sites on january, 1st, croatia will become the 20th country to join the europe, put off to a recent drop in public support for the new currency. i will,
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croatians adapt to the changes and will it mean higher prices in depth news and analysis on al jazeera, the latest news, as it breaks. this particular sub station has been in free separate effects. what 6 russian we saw with detailed coverage. they had hoped that the u. s. would relax, border pandemic restrictions this week, which was like, we had better there odds of getting in from around the world over 3000000 people to talk to the 3 and one sided there to work for you. and then mfc, i'm enough ne ah, hello, i'm fully back to boeing doha, with a look at our main stories on al jazeera, myanmar is ousted leader on signs which he has been convicted on 5 charges of
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corruption. she was sentenced in a military court.

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