pressed hong kong products by politicizing, economic and trade issues. but while hong kong may have won the battle, it hasn't yet won the war. the us says that the will trade organization ruling is flawed and they didn't no longer use hong kong, separate enough from china to justify having separate trading benefits. international trade experts say the standoff may be hard to resolve because of problems with the w t o is appeals process. the appellate body system is not functioning, but the system still allows parties to appeal. and so what we say is that they appeal into the void. certain members have set up a temporary alternative arbitration system as a work around i'm calling as a member of that system. the u. s. is not. sometimes manufacturer is hoping for a speedy conclusion to the political wrangling, so they can focus on getting their post pandemic business back on track, rigid kimber,

al jazeera hong kong. ah, your challenges there at lisa, who robinson dough reminder of all top stories, russian forces led by mercenaries from the bog group say they've got control of the eastern ukrainian town. a solid off keys denies the claim. fighting the area has intensified in the past few days. as russia tries to gain ground, human rights launches, releases 2023 report looking at the conditions of human rights in more than 100 countries. it says also retiring as him across the world as leading to a degradation of the human condition ought to be. lo has more. for manila, indonesia is the chair of the regional block this year. and so the human rights watch is urging indonesia to do more than just talk to walk the talk to take action to lead the regional block in taking action. and for example,

this year there will be elections in me and mar, but the human rights watch said that indonesia has to lead the ozzy on into condemning these elections. and saying that these elections are just sham elections . flights of resumed in the united states after a technical glitch, grounded thousands of planes for hours. the problem is being blamed on a computer outage at the federal aviation administration. us secretary of state anthony blank and the us defense secretary lloyd austin. assign you agreements with the japanese counterparts to expand military ties. we also discussed the growing threat from china and patients in the region. lincoln commended japan's decision to double its defense spending by 202070, sorry, thousands of on his violence of march and the capital caracas. demanding better wages through things they do. public health work as teachers and pension is un between $3100.00 a month. early results from beneath election suggest the position will return to

parliament for the 1st time. in 4 years. the democrats, when 28 seats out of the 109 member assembly, it was bought, running in the last election in 2019. at least 900 people are being killed, installs that continued to bass of the u. s. state of california and agency work as of struggling to clean up the widespread damage. those headlines more news in half an hour to stay with us. the world economic forum returns to diverse in january to assess the global economy, reshaped by the crime demick and the war in ukraine. can leaders from government and business prevent a promised decade of action becoming a decade of uncertainty. extensive coverage on al jazeera with i am for me. okay, thanks for joining me on the stream to day. we are looking at plastic pollution and

what is being done about it. so even if you make a conscious effort not to buy plastic products, you can't escape them because we have plastics inside of us. i will tell you how much in the next half an hour. but 1st, let's find out how we got to this situation. i'm going to take you back to the 1950s since the 1950s people find a way war than 6300000000 tons of plastic. that's according to a stunt study that was done in 2017 globally every year. people throw away about 400000000 tons of plastic lace every single year. according to the o. e. c. d. plastic waste is on track to almost triple by 2060 with about half ending up in landfills. what do we do about that? i know you've got suggestions. i know you've got solutions. be part of today show the comment section is right here. and looking forward to your computer.

ah. hello, erica. hello, steve. hello. such a roof i is so good to have you. how much plastic is too much plastic for our planet? we're going to get into that and then some. but 1st of all, erica, please say hello to our viewers around the world. tell them who you are and what you do. well, 1st of all, thanks for having me for me. my name's erica serino. i'm journalist and author of the book, thicker than water. the quest for solutions for the plastic crisis, and based in the united states. nice to have the allies, the welcome to the stream. tell you who you are, what you day. i mean everybody. my name is steve fletcher. i'm the director of the global plastics policy center university. portsmouth, on the south of england. we undertake evidence base analysis of classics policies. i'm also a member, the international resource pablo and an editor in chief of a new publication called cambridge prisms,

plastics that shows research the tries to solve the global plastics from. i great, you can stay at such a refer nice to have a welcome to the stream, tell us who you are and what you do. hope any hello everybody. by shaker, i work with a briefly from plastic movement, a global movement that envision of plastic free future. we basically work to bring systemic change through a holistic approach, settling plastic solution across the entire plastics, valley team. and we focus on prevention rather than cure and providing effective solution. alright, speed route. so one of the guest, erica micro plastics. in a sentence. explain plastics. never benignly bow degrade or breakdown. they only break up into smaller and smaller pieces of toxic plastic. that's how i would explain micro plastic. steve, no prospects in a sentence. go even smaller than micro plastics and they can get into places that

even micro plastics co get mainly into a bodies in trouble streams depressed. smoke. yeah. okay. so how much plastic do you think we have in our body? oh gosh, that this isn't super sticky question. the research in this area is pretty new. yeah, it's really hard to say for me such a rupa at bio plastics in a sentence. tell us it basically a plastic that is made partially from a, you know, materials like, but ito starch upon starch, but eventually functions just like plastic. it has just as many chemicals and is extremely toxic. ah, okay. i spoiler alert right there. what is known about plastics? water we know, or what do we not know that we should know? i'm going to go to some of your colleagues, steve, at the university of portsmouth,

who cooked a lovely christmas dinner. and one christmas dinner they made with products that were all wrapped up in plastic. and another christmas dinner they made with products that were not wrapped up in plastic. let's see how that experiment went. so we looked at a plastic wrapped dinner and a non plastic wrap dinner and we cooked them to see how many micro plastics were in them. and we found 7 times more micro plastics in the wrapped dinner than the non wrapped dinner. if you were eaten an equivalent wrapped dinner every day for a year, you'd be eating about 10 grams of plastic. that's the equivalent of 2 of these a year. thing, i don't know whether i should be unarmed about not. it's just the i didn't. i'm not thinking about the plastics in my body, but i'm alive. i'm doing the show. i'm walking and talking around. is this a red flag that we should be doing something about stevie start and then i'm going to go round that round the 2 other guests as well. yes, it's

a total red flag for me. i mean, the reality is we don't know what harm plastic inside our body is doing not definitively mean an element of common sense suggest it's not good. and so you might wanna take a precautionary approach, where we say, well, until we know that this is harmless, we should stop, or at least we should reduce our exposure to passage in our homes and in our food. that would be a cautionary since we're going to do slightly distracted there by a plastic bag been put into an oven. i'm going to go, i want to go to erica, erica, you traveled the world looking at what do we know? what should we know about nano plastics? a micro plastics and what the dangers are, what would you say was the biggest? what there is going on moment that you had while definitely crossing the grey pacific garbage patch was a big wake up call. and this was in 2016 when the global consciousness about

plastic was really focus more on the problem framed as a marine litter issue or kind of pollution in the ocean, which now we know as far from the only place are plastic fluids, plastic fluids everywhere, including inside of our bodies, but in the reporting and research, i realized that these little particles in the ocean were breaking up into pieces and being consumed by the wildlife living there. an almost unimaginable scale. and a main problem with this is that these pieces of plastic contain toxic chemicals in these chemicals are already known to interfere with human hormones. animal hormones, they may cause accumulation of toxic body that lead to ill effects over time. so this research is better known in wildlife, but because humans are also animals, we should be very concerned at this point. knowing what we know now about the ill effects which are very deadly in many cases, but refer to multiple conversations going on about now. what do we do?

refresh, and there is a huge industry, huge manufacturing, industry, fashion, industry tactics, industry that you can have to have conversations with you in those conversations. how are they going? i think plus all we need to remember that plastics is basically fossil fuel and chemicals. there's more than $10000.00 chemicals in plastic. and we actually know the effects that these chemicals have on human and animal life. you know, it's, it's interesting to see that it's, those industries that are continuing to promote the production, you know, even extraction of fossil fuels, production of the polymers that go into making plastics. and then continue to promote, you know, what we call fault solutions in how we manage our classic waste. these are, these can range from incinerators and waste energy plans to just cement kilns and

what we're finding across the world. in issue we've been running studies. even chickens that, you know, just are feeding off ones are in the, in the very near vicinity of pacific man here don't to have dioxin of beings that are living very close to the cement. right. so this is a very, very direct transfer of the chemicals from plastic right into our bodies. and there is actually a lot we can do. we really need to have basic and progressive and mandatory, kept on production of fossil fuel be plastics. we need to control. i think these solutions are unicorns, we keep treating our deals with how plastic and managed it really cannot be managed . i think what erica talked about was just the, the, you know, the soap of lisa, it's in our bodies. we cannot avoid the kinds of killed to be where the water we

drink. it's in salt, it's an honey, it's in bill. it's an everything reading just things consciously. but also we just, you know, it's in, it's in before us. companies are very consciously making the choice to ads plus the micro plastic micro b into products every they products that we really just kind of void that thing like very clean. yeah. think go ahead. i had a, i'm sure you're still is much smaller than minds and you go fast. go ahead. oh, no. just because i'd really such recruit was saying really, historically the, the, the solutions to plastic question have been seen as what was called downstream. so the plastic has already been crated and scapes into the world. and we think pro solutions like recycling or, or collecting plastic and putting into landfill is plastic management. but that doesn't really prevent the pollution and the sorts of dire consequences that

century was just explaining. and i'm sure we've all got got stories like that so that there's a list of terrible problems. but what we really need to be doing is, is putting in place upstream solutions as problems solution, sorry, prevent the plastic question. the 1st place, not the try. and so the question just become pollution is too late by the way to talking to me throughout this flight where michael and your foot comes together. we are we talking about the nest products of beads in little bits of plastic in and they explode 8 your skin or they help clean better. but we just say, let's just not put them and create them in the 1st place. that would be simple when that yeah, you think so? yeah. so a global agreement to remove those sorts of plastics from products would be would be wonderful. and we don't need those plastics to be in those products. really, there will be natural alternatives or just other ways to achieving the same outcome . so we have to really find ways to prevent plastic entering the the economy are

entering the food chain or entering whatever way we kind of stopping them getting into the products in the 1st place would, would be, you know, the august 1st there's a global plastics treaty which feels like this would be a good place for the world to come together and say, this is how we want our well to be. we do not need this much plastic. erica, just before i play a little clip from a gathering that happened in oral g y, which was a just a few weeks ago at the end of the year. what does the public need to know about these global classics treaty? what is important about that? what's in point about this treaty is that we need to make sure it's strong, enforceable, and covers the full toxic existence of plastic. from the moment its fossil fuel ingredients are pulled from the ground to its end use. and after its end use when it's either disposed by incineration illegal dumping into

a landfill or the environment or some other means and a side to route. and steve mentioned, there are a lot of fall solutions now on the table. and one key for solution i want to identify is so called advanced or chemical recycling, which is just a process whereby plastics are kind of melted down in a way in to more simple petrochemical and fossil fuel components. and typically not even turned into plastic again. so not recycled but burned as a petrochemical or a fossil fuel type product. and so we need to keep those 4 solutions out of the global plastics treaty and have a hard hitting piece of a hearty agreement that kind of will show us all the way we need to move forward and at the core have values that lead to more regenerative sustainable and just world. i said that this is a very tough negotiation because it's real policy and, and asking for certain plastics and certain production methods to be

backed just banda. so this is in get anderson, she's the executive director of the united nations environment program. and she was at the global plastics treaty this gathering. he sitting next to the minister environment for orac. why? and this is what she told. a press conferences have a listen and it is ambitious to en, classic pollution, but it is entirely doable. it is in our hands. and i am very optimistic that we can work on the race of science on the basis of strong national leadership to deliver an agreement text by the end of 2 years. it's complicated. we have chemicals, we have industry, we have interest rates for everyone. everyone wants plastic out of the environment, such as if i was in oak, ryan, i was watching the conversations from between

a multi stake holders. excuse me, fitting un speak just for a moment, which means everybody can have a saying what is going on. and there were people there from the industry, the past, this industry and some of the other stakeholders were very upset that they were in the room, having the conversation. do they not provide a route to finding a solution if they come with a genuine sense of how can we do better or do we not need to have a plastics industry? are we asking for them to wrap themselves up? you know, so for me of it. oh boy as well. oh oh, oh such a ripper. i'm so sorry. i'm gonna, we're gonna call you back cuz we've got a little bit of a problem with your connection. so we're gonna call you back and, and i'll just hold that response for

a moment. but let me just go to eric her on this because i know you've been reporting on this as well. about what do you do with the big plastics industry? are they, are they genuinely wanting to say, how do we, how do we improve this situation, or is it a little bit like tobacco, the sequel? all, unfortunately, we're seeing a kind of repeat of tobacco the sequel. and in fact, people involved in the tobacco negotiations warned people involved now in the plastics negotiations that the industry is trying the same tactics. and we do see the same repetitiveness in the narrative as well. so, you know, putting that together, it's painting a very clear picture that the foxes in house i know audience if we think in steve, what about we cycling? what about bio plastics? i love that. i love to refer as i buy a plastics. 8 i work. they did b, just create a problem to like now, but that's not going to work. but what,

what will work? what are you working on? what are you researching that can be practical solutions? yeah, it's a good question for me. what, what we're cert researching at the moment is really trying to understand where in the plastics life cycle which are radical and progressive policy, really make a difference to reducing plastic pollution really achieve substantial reduction in plastic pollution. and what we're finding is a little bit, like i said before, it's really focusing on upstream solutions. so essentially 2 things. one is to reduce plastic entering the economy in the 1st place. so that substituting plastic out, it's reducing our reliance on our state. it's encouraging reuse schemes that prevent or reduce, sorry, the amount of plastic that we need in the 1st place. so that's the 1st thing, reducing plastic, entering the economy. and the 2nd thing is i, once plastic isn't the economy, then we make sure that plastic is the sort of class that we really need. and that

that plastic can be reused and circulated in the economy for as long as possible. so we begin to the couple our economic and social activity from a reliance upon virgin plastics is the virgin plastics, a crate, tremendous fossil fuels and the also so carbon emission, so okay, trends covered emissions and then ultimately tend to become the plastic pollution of the future i'm going to go to youtube and bring such a ripper back in. we've got a stable connection now. cow marston says, i guess my main point is how to governments even confront these large multinational companies like nestle pepsico, coca cola, are they companies that are group or that you are going to have to, as an activist, or somebody who's talking to these, these big these big plastic pollutants. how others come to the plastic? yeah. oh, well mixed up, you know,

it's usually one step forward and many steps back to the bakery from plastic movement has been conducting brand audits for 5 years. and we know who the polluters are. we know what some of their tactics are to distract and the real progress on policy. we have evidence where they are actually very, you know, systematically undermining very progressive policies. just one case for that i'd like to refer to india had a clause in the solid base management rules of 2016 with said that mentally plastics would be banned or eliminated by 2018. we actually know companies, unilever, nestle, and the others who have lobbied for that close to be removed. right? so we are actually moving backward despite knowing that she is and monthly packaging is basically, you know, there's nothing that one can do about it. at the same time,

what we having is going to leave all had launched something called korea solve. eric, i mentioned advanced recycling or chemical recycling the launcher, with a lot of fanfare. and then they get close within 2 years after millions of dollars a lot spread. so you see a what, how is that and also how many millions several millions, i'm sorry, i just don't have it on hand but you know, they wanted in the media. they try to convince a lot of governments that, that is feasible. oh, it is not on the other thing that you know, steve was talking about was reuse projects, the launch projects, but they only pilots. they never fail, they don't allow them to scale up. all right, so, so a quick answer hand at the lyla arkwin. you see this one here from the chip. what about a past tax? plastic tax. no, all that's difficult, but we can implement producer responsibility schemes that require corporations to

take back the plastics that they produce or be find that help financially or logistically responsible. but i don't think it would be ever fair to tax people because they're not creating the pollution in the industry. for me, in our research, we found that a positive touch by itself doesn't necessarily create the change you want to see, but the closet touch can reinforce other policies. so for example, if we wanted to substitute our plastic for less looting material, then we could put a tax on virgin plastics that would make the substitute more economically attractive to a certain industry. so a touch by itself doesn't really do job, but a touch with a collection or suite of other policies that should be required. but we talked earlier to data. michelle barry, i'm just going to bring her voice in because i think she sums up where we are with our conversation right now today. he says, well, we can only recycle our way out of the global plastic problem. we need economic

practices that reimagine supply chains to decrease single use plastics. and we need to financially incentivize plastic collection and recycling. we need technologic innovation to do a better cleanup of michael plastic pollution so that we're not consuming the equivalent of a plastic credit card in one weeks time. such a really quick response from our audience. you're watching right now. you cannot build a cell phone with the loss. you have to have plastic instant response to that viewer . we can think about how long that is used or do we really need to use it so, you know, so frequently replaced things so frequently. i think what steve was also saying, i think, was also once it's in the system, how do we make sure that it's based on the system as long as possible, right? if we really need some kinds of plastic,

then less privatized those. if it's for medical reasons, for example, why do we need, you know, single use disposable cutlery, which we can really do with that. yeah. and there are great alternatives to save. you going to say something? yeah, i think it's hard to justify. i think for the bringing plastics and the economy that we know can be reuse that can't be recycle recovery, effectively collective, but a toxic and good home people's health, how is not an acceptable position for the world to adopt? and so we have to really think really carefully about what is a necessary plastic and then maybe some necessary plus. and so we have to upgrade. what is a plastic that we use? right? so if you've got a phone that said number whatever, why do you have the my, the next let, this is mike, this is my bombay here. why have to by the next level of fine? only cuz the manufacturer tell ye after you. not because you natalie meeting i this is my voice will not be the last face. the last coming on the shaft got one more

pass him to bring in. and this is andrew. he's looking ahead to what is gonna happen in the world of plastic pollutions patient this year. this is what he tell us. what we're seeing now, plastics. he's not that my issue is an issue of our supply driving use. i know plastic production will continue to rise and currently equals 400000000 tons. that is the weight of $40000.00 eiffel towers per year on the legal front expect to see more actions against polluters on the grounds. often, bro, mental justice and human rights. like the case fight, the squeak against the fruits company, the non in france, ford there continues failing to reduce their plastic footprint. by the end of the year, i'm cautiously optimistic that we will see a draft of the international treaty setting out measures to air

cup unfazed down production consumption and use of plastics. and this is the current story that under i was talking about activists to french food film, firmed and known as the use of plastics. maybe this is the future, may be the legal stick is what we need to have fewer lots of plastic in our environment. thank you to erica, to steve the such a rupa and to you for being part of today's program. reshay, phoenix time a new generation of young people are more politically engaged in the one that came before. welcome to generation change a global feelings and attempts to talent, and understand the ideas and mobilize youth around who were in south africa. if women who are at the forefront as the woke generation,

you must never get tired of developing resistance plastic youth. and that is nice of passion for food stamps and fight generation chains on al jazeera. it's one of the most spectacular mass migrations in the animal kingdom. monarch butterflies, millions of arriving at the winter habitat in central mexico. this year, the international union for the conservation of nature officially designated the migrating monarch butterfly as endangered experts say the use of pesticides along with the loss of habitat, are the biggest threats to the species. they may be difficult to see from a distance, but these trees behind us are absolutely covered in monarch butterflies. now tourists are welcome at this protected butterfly sanctuary here in central mexico. but visitors are asked to keep their voices down so as to not disturb the butterflies. for many the up close encounter with millions of these vibrant butterflies is a once in a lifetime experience experts in mexico see that despite the monarch being

designated as endangered, there's evidence that conservation efforts are working. but ultimately, the future of this iconic insect depends on the continued protection of their natural habitat. there was a time to be direct. they're basically on the verge of legalizing racial, jerry battery to cut through the rhetoric. this isn't a universal death felony crisis. the seems to be one of particular populations to dismantle the sound bites. there are lots and lots of women who are likely agenda a kind of anti feminist agenda. and the man, the truth, those the size of fascism. we have to really recognize what we're off of yet. we are determining what is the future of democracy in this country. join me, martha mon hill, for up front on al jazeera. ah . ready