a saw the helicopter in the air that perhaps a propeller was a lie, but none of that has been quite at that stage that we should say a very cautious and wait to hear more from the police. so tell us a little bit about the location. you said it was a residential location. the town of bravery i believe is near keith. it's a historic town. what. what more can you tell us? i mean, the helicopter actually crashed into this preschool. kindergarten. yes . when we're in a um, well it's effectively a small town on the outskirts. so keep the eastern outskirts about, you know, 40 minutes drive from the center of the city. and i mean, all around me, all apartment blocks, apartment buildings where people are living in it. right. in the middle, you have this kinda garden, it's quite big. and this is where children were as school children and stuff. we know the people have been evacuated. we don't know how many casualties they were in the nursery, but it was up and running. it was open, parents had already dropped their children awful schools. you could only imagine

how terrifying and how awful it has been for many parents this morning is this news has come through and then to be here and see half the building absolutely destroyed and blackened of from that crash, very worrying scene indeed. and again, as i sent it residence all around me coming to look, coming to see what has happened in the area. incredibly shocking, distressing for the residence of the area. tell us a bit about can, can you just recap some of the facts from this morning. we know that there was 16 people on this helicopter talk us through who else was on that helicopter? so what, what we know so far is that a was just after 8 o'clock local time here and keep her when there was news that this helicopter had come down at that point. when you very little about it, we just knew that this helicopter come down in this area of bovary east of keys,

and that it had effectively crashed into a nursery, which is surrounded by residential buildings. this is a residential area. lots of, of families living here. parents that already dropped their children off at school and what the police are saying is that at least 16 people have been killed. now we can assume that most of those were on the helicopter was carrying 9 people. but some of course also on the ground police have said the 2 children were killed, emergency services would have very quickly. they did evacuate other people, residents are being kept back. um, but at this stage we don't know where the helicopter is going and where it come from and why it's crushed here. but what we do know is on board with some senior political government figures here, and keith, including ukraine's interior minister. ok, now bravery, i believe it is one of the cities that was originally captured by russia and then re captured by ukrainian forces at some point last year. tell us

a bit more about or what happened when that took place. yes, i was right. i mean, you might remember they were images of tanks rolling through this part of the city, this town just on the, on the edge of city. but of course, eventually those forces were pushed back. it is now a town on the edge of keys like any other where people are going about their daily business that day. life, as i've said, you know, dropping their children off the school. the last thing you'd imagine is that such a terrible thing would happen just a few moments later with this a helicopter crush. so it's a place that is experienced a just under a year ago that experience russian troops coming through it's town. and now it is experiencing a new tool. huh. okay, i just wanna go over what we are reporting here, the breaking news, 16 people that we know off, including ukraine's interior minister,

as well as other senior ministry officials have been killed this wednesday at 8 o'clock ukraine time this morning when a helicopter crashed outside cave in the town of bravery, this is a town just outside cave. we're getting this information from the national police chief of ukraine. now the governor of the cave region said earlier on wednesday that the helicopter crash near a nursery and a residential building early on wednesday, not to children that we know off are among the dead. 10 of them are in hospital with speaking to a correspondent, a natasha butler who was at the crash site. natasha just described to us the scene where you are now. that was it's very quiet and people are standing around residences. standing around looking at was, is going on, i mean, more and more of them arriving. there's a very, a says,

real smell of smoke and fuel in the end. i'm just looking behind me here. i mean, i don't, if you can see because the, with a, with a kindergarten building part of it is burnt out and blackens. there are emergency services picking through that scene and also police officers. i'm is very disturbing picture indeed to see this blackened kindergarten and that is where the helicopter crushed a few hours ago. now it was just off to 8 o'clock a local when that and that essentially a, you know, this is a place full of apartment blocks, families, people were going to work parents that ready dropped their kids off a school. so very shocking scenes and immediately after, if you look at some of the mobile phone footage with some of the residents in these blocks, he saw an enormous, a spread of fire between these blocks here in this park, just outside of the nursery. what we know now is that at least 16 people have been killed amongst them children to children. we understand

a number of children also injured, they'd be taken to hospital and all that helicopter. we understand that $19.00 people, including bina, got to tear in the included ukraine, minister inventory minister that has been killed in this crash. you can only imagine how this news is going to be received and keep in the government. and it's really going to resonate around ukraine. a people are going to be asking, why on earth did this helicopter go down? what happened? indeed, or just the, the latest lives that i'm saying it in terms of who was on that helicopter, ukraine's interior minister, the deputy interior minister and a state secretary all have been killed in this helicopter crash east of cave. we still don't know where that helicopter was heading. why it trash? 16 people have been killed in total, 9 of whom were on board. that's according to the police. another 22 people are

now in hospital. and that includes 2 children because the helicopter crashed near a, a near a nursery and a residential building early it to day wednesday. well, natasha, you, you said the emergency services were quick to arrive at what would the procedure there be now when are we likely to get a little more information about what happened? tell me, tell saw coming, you know, moment by moment when we arrived here, we had no idea about how many people by helicopter, within a few years. and that he saw supposedly putting out more and more information about the number of victims look old or been injured. and of course, the identities of some of those who are on that helical, including ukraine's ontario ministers, such

a high profile senior government figure killed in this crash in this helicopter. landed on this nursery behind me at what we can expect as a get more details as the day goes on. i would imagine, of course, we know that some of those were injured have suddenly been okay. it seems we have that low stock correspond natasha butler. that who is right outside the sight of that helicopter crash. in the town of bravery, we will return to her in a moment. let's 1st speak to pete is down may, and he is executive director, the eurasian democracy initiative. he joins us now live from keith. thank you for your time. i gave it to you. you are obviously closer to what has happened. then i have any more information about what has happened today regarding this helicopter crash? well, yes, like as you've mentioned in your report, dentist want us to see who has been very active,

a minister of internal affairs. and he is closest a, mr. you regional coverage and you didn't get a hold, perish in this trash. apparently, it was very foggy in that area. and before hating the kindergarten, they may have hit a t, v or radio which sent the helicopter crashing into the kindergarten. really, a few children right now. as medias 18 people are reported to have died. you know, it does say that all of this looks very, very, very suspicious. are, you know, usually helicopter drivers don't reach area. you're flying in the are aware of all the potential obstacles. it's looking very suspicious. i would not rule out fall play. and by that i'd be a possible terrorist act by the russian federation. like, like i said before,

the all internal affairs is an important position. wouldn't be great and garlic has been taking an active part in ukraine's resistance to the invading army. so i would not rule out anything at this point. let's, let's go back to the helicopter wet and do you know what was it on an official mission? where was it going? do you have any more information as to why there were or the senior officials in this helicopter at the same time? yes, there that they were on the mission. those internal affairs. i don't know. ministry affairs, a ministry started mission. we don't know yet exactly what this this was something very, very kept secret at this. and so right now they are staying mom to government staying mom excited about what kind of mission this is, but apparently this was the business. so you talked about

a ukrainian interior minister and the role that he's been playing in the war between russia and ukraine and tell us a bit more about how important, how significant, what he's been doing has been well, obviously this particular minister was responsible for routing out identified a diversion to be groups which have infiltrated the beginning of the war, especially the battle of this one is what very crucial moments you try to get rid of the journal entities, agents of russia, influence and so they've been crucial and this particular ministry was very effective and so we still need the russian federation that have a direct modem to neutralize this particular branch. and why do you believe that this could have been a foul play or deliberate?

you say that the helicopter crash into a tv tower? what more can you tell us about that? well, this is rarely happens. the and the, like i said, the pilots, a very, very experience that defies my helicopter. once again, russia is based in dire situation, the creating sun having big for me. and it seems to me that climate, which is just going so a say any trick that he can pull off such a, this is i think something that can be expected. so at this point, i don't want to do anything but, you know, let's wait that you always need to wait till tomorrow. all the pieces start to get there. and just tell us a bit more about the, the location of where this, this crash occurred. and the relevance if you think it is relevant brewery. of

course, a key city that was recaptured by ukrainian forces from the russians last year. could that have some kind of relevance? do you think? yes, it's it's, it's a major industrial hub right outside the city. and it was very crucial. the battle for a brother was crucial in this war early on. and so the minister problem was inspect the, some of these, some of the industrial complexes. and so once again, you know, this little town outside of key, it has become a center of international news. but just in case anyone is joining us now on al jazeera, i just want to recap our breaking you 16 people in total, including 2 children that is according to the ukranian national police. 9 of them were on board a helicopter, and the crash occurred next to kindergarten in bravery, which is east of keith. we know now that 22 people on hospital including

10 children and what appears to be quite significant is that the ukrainian interior minister dennis monassa, tristan a probably pronounce that completely wrong and was on that was was in that helicopter. his deputy was also in the hall like helicopter and there among those killed in that crash on the outskirts of ki we are talking to a all guest since we last off. you'd us many thanks for speaking to us on al jazeera. if you can, if you can just give us your reaction to this crush, i mean, what goes through your mind when, when you hear that something like this has happened? well, this obviously is rachel. this is a,

this is just another piece of evidence. washington ration will stop it, absolutely nothing to try to kill the will of. you will also expecting a major mountain of the blood work within today regarding prosecution and the more we expect a new way to get make that water, which once again, they will not negotiate, is willing to see this war, fill the biological and tell us a little more about the interior minister and the role he was playing in fighting the war against russia. ministry minister going to do this, has been active in routing out and shipping out of pocket elections. overt lives in ukraine specialists beginning of the war when i was

practically infiltrated, inundated by these groups, the version really cracked to call them by school, them sublet tours. the point was that they would, would it be used to be, had the great in government meeting a neutral life, killed the president early on this much gold and so minister on the wrong was direct directly. this particular affair was able to neutralize the troops around the country, especially in the capital. and basically that council planned to go and get to the dates, the government. and this has been crucial in fighting off the work from the capital . okay, really good to speak to you, sir. as sweat left off, you rush speaking to us, there are from keyma group. apologies. i with no

mailing address as returned to natasha butler, who joins now from bravery near keith. you are right near the crash sites. can he described to us what you are seeing natasha yeah. right. outside of this nursery that i don't if you can make it out behind me, it's a pink building. a half of it completely blackens. were by fire, not this is where the helicopter crash just off to local at 8 o'clock local time. there are a lot of people around the residence, a coming to have a look at what is happening. people are sort of also looking out of their windows and apartment buildings to bench larry in this town of bavaria, which is just only east in the outskirts of the capital, a keys. so this was a nursery where parents had just dropped their children off of school. there was staff inside at the time when this crush took place. so what we now know,

just to bring you up to date, is that a least 18 people have been killed. that's according to police, including our 2 children. we know also that on that helicopter was senior government figures including ukraine's interior minister, dennis a modest there sky. he was on that helicopter with his deputy. we don't know exactly where he was going, but of course that's going to send absolute shock waves or through political circles a here and keith, across the country been such a senior, a figure has been killed this morning. or in terms of the actual area, much just looking now there are more soldiers arriving and resource more emergency workers as well because they have been here since early on just off to that crash as you can imagine at the soon. okay. natasha could speak to you or give us a bit more detail about the rescue operation. you mentioned that there were more

police that you could see. we know some of the casualties are currently in hospital . is that right? yeah, that's right. so we know that a number of people were injured, they were taken to hospital, we know we understand important to police and some of the injured our children. i mean, it's hard to imagine that they wouldn't be victims when you look at the state of the building behind me a kindergarten that would've been full of children and staff. it's early in the morning. they would have just been dropped off when this we know also that they were knowing people aboard of a helicopter. from what we understand all of those. a people have been killed. the senior political figures include in ukraine's interior minister. well, we don't know though, and you know, as i said before, is why this helicopter crashed. there have been some residents in this area who had reported seeing the helicopter above, perhaps with part of it on fi, propeller on fire,

fight with the frame your thought seen and with the work as a still on the scene. the fire has been put out though, because that sprayed all around this. paul a little bit early, huge blaze. if you look at some of the mobile phone footage that was taken by some of the residents at the time. and as i've said, no number of security officials and emergency workers more and more starting to arrive here as well as more residents. people just coming to see what has happened right in the middle of the neighborhood. indeed. okay, natasha. just to recap, what has happened? 16 people including ukraine's interior minister. we're hearing that from natasha. and another senior ministry official that was weebly to be at the interior minister as deputy, had been killed on wednesday when a helicopter crashed outside cave. in the town of bro, very, this is a report we're getting from the national police chief we've heard from the governor

of the key region today that that helicopter crashed near a nursery on a residential building, which has resulted in the death of 2 children, 10 of them 10 children are currently in hospital. let's return now to natasha butler. what are the you mentioned natasha. the shock waves that will be passing through within the ukranian government and the ukranian officials who've been fighting such a tough war. such a long war against russia. what will be going through their minds right now? what is likely to be their next move? what been for the credit government? it is of course going to be a huge loss. they are losing their interior minister in the middle of a war as ukrainian forces continued to battle. russian forces they of last a,

the interior ministers deputy add these other senior political figures they are on the helicopter, and of course it will be there. they also will be going out to the relative to families of these senior figures that have been working so hard for many months now in ukraine as part of ukraine's a worth it and push to try and push back those russian forces for from the country . so this will be huge loss for the you credit questions about why it is helicopter has come down, why it came down here and what exactly happened? none of that we know yet, or at least we're not hearing any reports yet from police. a confirming the details of what exactly happened, why this helicopter it came down. but those are some of the questions that you'd imagine are being asked in government circles, a shock and grief. but people they worked with for many, many months in such difficult circumstances. it would be

a very sad day indeed for those and keep indeed an an outside cave. i am sure i am natasha butler, that for us just outside that crash site. apologies for the poor sound quality, less be to maximilian hess who is a fellow at the foreign policy research institute. he joins us live on skype from london. good of you to join us, sir. you will reaction to this news coming in to us in the last hour, so this helicopter can't carrying the ukrainian interior minister. that is, that is crushed into this preschool in the ukrainian town of bravery near keith interior minister, one of the people who has lost his lives, along with his deputy, your reaction to what has happened. thank you for having me. it's certainly a tragedy. i think that the reaction in ukraine will focus on the cause of this our

copier crash. there will of course be investigations and the potential sabotaged ukraine is still very much actively being attacked by russia. not conflict as involved, not only direct kinetic strikes but also cyber warfare. 2 and we have seen targeted assassination attempts, both against russian occupation officials, as well as against ukrainian security officials. but that's her suspicion will naturally fall the interior ministry and ukraine is a particularly important one for the countries security. and also for the rule of law in the country, effectively overseeing the national police as well as many of the domestic security services. so who comes to replace one of scarcity and how the government handles that will have important long term impacts. but i don't expect that it will in any way change in ukrainian will to fight or developments on the battlefield in the very short term. tell us a bit more about the role as the and the ukranian minister, the minister of internal affairs. i mean, how much of

a blow is it to lose him at this stage on the wall? well, mom says he had been a trusted ally of zillow and he is, he had replaced that esanova of the former long standing interior minister, who had dominated that ministry from 2014 until 2021. and before the war was stealing, as tass would really cleaning it up and trying to reform it. there have been many attempts at that in ukraine's recent political history. not all of which have been successful in some which critics within the country have certainly argued made it worse. but the interior ministry does oversee some internal troops and has the security function as well as overseeing police functions in the country, which are important to the ongoing conflict. graham's ability to ensure that it is able to best resist russia, but because a lot that has been some stone by the national defense committee and through the military leadership, with the territorial battalions growing out of it, into those leadership structures as well. i don't think it will affect the

management of ukrainian military security to directly. and of course, if it turns out that this was a back or that otherwise return boxes may have been behind it. that will raise security concerns for the ukrainian ministry going forward. you may recall the beginning of this conflict, we saw, you know, direct attempts in give by pollutants forces to go after ukrainian ministers report really, president lance, the himself as well. i think it's only natural that suspicion will fall there again, and that we made the changes to their internal protocol security protocol as well. is there any reason to believe that this wasn't a deliberate action or this wasn't foul play? i mean, we're hearing now that the helicopter was of the state emergency service, the hot helicopter that crash could that have been a more innocent reason for my function? perhaps a certainly a

high net worth individuals around other than a number of prominent incidents across in diameter world. in recent years, i certainly not a foregone conclusion. sabotage incident or other form of rush an attack. i just think it's natural, the suspicion will fall there, given boots on going on. but it is possible. there is a more innocent explanation. ukraine's security services, ukraine's management of the helicopter for like will be going into overdrive as a result of russia's ongoing invasion. so there may be a tangential crime there as well, but no i, i wouldn't rule out that there is a more interesting explanation as well. but i do think ukrainian politics will be fed by least immediately call or potential investigations and examinations or to whether this was advertised back and let me touch on it briefly. but

what, what likely impact is this going to have on the situation on the ground in terms of the fighting itself between ukraine and russia, the focus of pricing, which is very much the moment in back news, will have any impact at all. i don't expect it will have any real major, a 2nd structures to ensure that they're able to keep operating in senior leadership crises or potential rushes, sabotage, stacks and cyber attacks. wow. so they're, they're fairly used to fight again, they're very difficult circumstance. and sadly, by this point, with the sort of full scale in russian vision ongoing for almost a year now, launches on the 24th of february last year. so i don't expect to be a major change there. one area it's interesting to watch is also how the pro

russian media and telegram channels that are cultivated and curated by the crime. and we'll respond often they put on claims responsibility and things for the acts of aggression. the come on isn't necessarily directly willing to state that had carried out. for example, the rocket attack that we saw denise last week, a lot of telegram channels announced that early on back in 2014, when i made 17 was shot down. ok, so as well. so those would be an area to walk for potential times around, but it was the same time. is that really good to get your thoughts? maximilian has foreign policy research institute speaking to us that from london where up to date lots more coming up on the crash at the top of the out stay with a with

what happens in new. 1 york has implications all around the world to make these stories resonate requires talking to everyday people. the mayor of the city are now sending doing away with the curfew. that was supposed to get everybody off. it's international perspective with the human touch zooming way in. and then pulling back out again, ah at least 18 people, including ukraine's interior minister and his deputy is killed in a helicopter.