says more than 25 percent of palestinians killed by his radio forces in the occupied with bank this year with children. many like at ham, see their friends and family members being killed and fear. they'll be max ah, state imposed musical band that made for social resistance. all to do was the story, oklahoma zone of music. you couldn't escape her best. herb was everywhere. that was outlined the own use of the turkish republic. with which the people loved to p is our best raising almost as eva. ah, until mccrae and dough harvey said the stove, top stories on al jazeera place in california. so the main suspect in the mass

shooting has shot himself dead. 72 year old who can trend is believed to have opened fire at a ballroom dance studio in monterey park near los angeles on sunday, killing at least 10 people gun violent needs to stop. there's too much of it. i. we're all standing here tonight because an individual ah, took a weapon and did the damage that we've talked about without repeating it. i think all of us, i need to take some ownership there. i think we really need to go back and look at what we do. pakistan's energy ministry has reported a nationwide power outage authority say a fault and the national grid is to blame for the black house. and that, that working to restore the system come all high to has more from islam about a gordon to the country's energy stuff. that's not

a major breakdown that in mind. good, you nationwide and identical all make measure power. plants are dog nights. and however, when the systems were turned on in the morning because of the frequent a variation and did not reach and most of the country out expedia is that there was no fall like germany is. foreign minister says bill and will not block poland. if it decides to send its lippard, 2 tanks to ukraine, nato allies of pressuring chancellor life shoulds to decide whether the supply keith with the tanks. while the speaker of russia's lower house of parliament has warned that the delivery of width and width and to keith would trigger a global catastrophe in a statement on telegram just love loudon said the supply weapons will lead to an even more powerful response from moscow. 5 civilians have been killed in somalia

during an attack by elisha barb fighters of the armed group stormed the me. as office in mogadishu security forces killed 6 of them will turkish president. 3, just tell you as one says he is bringing elections forward by month to may 14 opinion polls show both the presidential and parliamentary elections will be tied, making them at one's biggest test in his 2 decades leading the nation, the opposition has yet to announce who it's presidential candidates will be let's railey prime minister. benjamin netanyahu has fired the senior cabinet member or you dairy served as the interior and health minister. netanyahu was forced to 2nd after the supreme court ruled dairy could not serve because of a conviction for tax offenses. the government is facing growing criticism over its plans to reform the judicial system. will demonstrations had been held across the united states making the 50th anniversary of the road, the wage woman,

the landmark supreme court decision guaranteeing women the right to abortion was overturned last june. that gave individual states the authority to impose their own rules. 14 states have since band or severely restricted the procedure. the biden administration is trying to help women get around abortion bands by increasing access to medication use for terminations. members of our cabinet and our administration are now directed as of the presidents order to identify barriers to access to prescription medication and to recommend actions to make sure that doctors can legally prescribe that pharmacies can dispense and that women can secure safe and effective medication risk your teams and peru have evacuated more than 400 visitors stranded at the tourist side. much repeat you anti

government protests in the area, damage the rail tracks, leading to the site, forcing it to be closed and definitely, protest is a calling for president in apollo, wanting to resign. and for the release of former president pedro castillo, those are the headlines. the news continues here on al jazeera after the bottom line, which is coming up next. ah hi, i'm steve clements, i have a question. the ukraine war brought europe in the united states, closer together, but a domestic politics on both sides of the atlantic, pulling them apart. let's get to the bottom line. ah, when russia invaded ukraine almost a year ago, nato went from being brain dead in the words of french president emanuel mac crone,

to the most essential organisation for world peace. every staff how support the western but international order. see it right now, but are there signs that the cohesion inside europe and between europe in the united states is frame, especially in the united states, where china is now seen as a much bigger threat than russia. and folks would rather focus on the cost of living here instead of funding wars abroad. today we're talking with boris root of the former deputy ambassador of germany to the united states. and currently the vice chairman of the influential munich security conference which convenes next month. and jacob halliburton, editor of the national interest magazine, and senior fellow at the atlantic councils, eurasia center, and our very own abdur rahim to car bureau, chief of al jazeera for north and south america. gentleman is great to be with all of you and force. i'm going to start with you. can you tell me today? i know you don't represent germany anymore. you represent the biggest franchise in foreign policy. in the world. is germany all in or not all in,

in fighting russia and helping ukraine at this moment. i guess people can have different opinions. one way of looking at it is, if you compare with germany is doing now to where it was a year ago. in january of 2022, we've come a long way. we've delivered all sorts of weaponry. air, the hands of particular heavy artillery. now we're delivering into p fighting vehicles. and you know, we may be delivering main battle tanks. so that's one item that people feel. many people feel certainly the koreans that are to be made available by germany. but i think it's, you know, over the last half empty kind of what are the fault lines domestically? i know there's controversy over sending german leper to tax. you know, the new incoming chairman of the house foreign affairs committee, mike mccall, it's been very critical of germany for not doing more. and i think that kevin

mccarthy, the new speaker of the house, who right now is still on board with ukraine funding. but he sent signals that he believes that europe is not carrying its own weight. germany is not carrying its own weight on this. and that you can kind of see that evolving like, why is the us doing so much and europe doing so little when it's on the edge of things. so what are the domestic fault lines from your perspective inside germany and inside europe? i know this is part of what the munich security conference is going to struggle with for sure. so 1st of all, i would say the observation coming from us friends and colleagues that europe and germany in particular ought to be doing more to support ukraine. that's fair enough because it isn't our neighborhood. key of housing longer is where i'm sitting here and i'm so it's fair enough for the west to expect europe in germany to be pulling its way the domestic fall line. i think there's

a lot of movement. so traditionally, the center left in germany has been very reluctant to extend that kind of support. but actually until the invasion, the 2nd in russia into ukraine 11 months ago across the board in germany. there were very few people, including in the conservative party who are willing to support that and that is change. so the greens are now very strong and supporting military, extending military support to print the liberal party f t p. also, social democrats who debate going on within that party have different voices. but you know, step by step, they've been moving in that direction. people say germany at the end of the day is only moved when there's been huge pressure from particles, now lives, including the united states, obviously. but germany has been moving in the right direction. and i think that's the most important thing. if you look at the sum total of what germany is

deliberate, it is not insignificant, especially in the area there defense. but it, it continues to be an issue of domestic debate. jacob, i want to get into the u. s. site in a moment, but i also want to ask you about europe. i mean, you edit perspectives from around the world with what's with you with what's going on with regard to support of ukraine, what ukraine needs, or is a need, or whether it's a legitimate conflict for the west to be involved with in any case. but as you look at it, what, how do you see the fault lines of division inside? i was recently in eastern europe in poland. and this support for what's going on in ukraine is very robust. but as you move westward, it's weaker and weaker and weaker and becomes a paler version of the eastern european tension. at least that's my impression. what yours? i think you're exactly right. and what's interesting is that everything boris said is true. but it's also the case that the german chancellor sholtes has essentially been wavering, has been too cautious,

too timid and approaching this problem. there's a psychological block in germany and perhaps some of the other countries which is to recognise there's no going back to the future. they're not going to be the kind of ties with russia that existed in the past. they are conducting a genocidal war in the heart of europe. that is not something that you can go back and then suddenly deal with latimer pollutant on a kissy face basis as wasn't as germany did in the past. now, the germans have done a lot, but poland has become, in some ways the leader of europe and may end up with the biggest military in europe. i'm starting to wonder if germany really ever will be a leader in europe. it may be end up being late. may miss laura chance entirely? it's a. so what you're saying is they're sort of half in half out. that's carrots, a little different. what boris at boris had their tilting in the right direction. but i mean, i think they are moving in the right direction, but it's, it's somewhat astounding that the foreign minister, a green of the green party is much more hawkish than the social democratic

chancellor. and elaina barrow buck the foreign minister to staked out much tougher position. and she too is much more visible on this than shorts and the social democrats. they strike me as some a trapped in the past. well, another dimension of this, i want to get to have dream and you and boris on this, but i want to show some numbers here which, which are very, very interesting. the chicago council on global affairs has, has been asking americans over a period of time over the last year about their support for our efforts and western efforts to support ukraine. in this conflict, i should say, when indirect. and what this 1st graph here we shows is that it's gone from 80 percent support roughly a year ago in the aggregate to about 55 percent nationally right now. and if you break it down by party, it's really interesting. it's become a very politicized division where the democrats are overwhelmingly and support 81 percent in support of our efforts with ukraine. 9900 percent opposed. but the

divide are 52 percent of republicans are against and 48 percent in favor. to me that looks like big warning signs of something coming up. how do you see a j? i agree, i agree, a 100 percent. i think being anti ukraine is going to become a constituent element of the new republican party. i think this is the legacy of donald trump, and it is why joe biden is stepping up the fight now to send tanks and other happened heavy weaponry to ukraine. ukraine is going to have to deliver a knockout below in the next year to after him. i'm so happy you're here because i think sometimes when we have transit atlantic discussions, we can get intoxicated by their own importance. you know, when you look at the rest of the world, because another dimension out there is china's making moves in the world. i sometimes wonder if china's thrilled that the u. s. and russia, the nato in the west, they're all tied up with each other because it opens the chessboard for a lot of other moves by china. i'd be interested from

a global perspective. what you think are blind spots in this discussion are, and whereas you sitting in washington d. c, in the united states. how do you see the divide this beginning to develop, develop here over ukraine? well, the 1st the, let me just say couple of things about europe. so obviously the europeans have been pulled together with the americans by the, by an administration. we know what the biden did with regard to the war in ukraine . however, we are beginning to see strains in europe in terms of inflation, in terms of people not finding enough gas to keep themselves warm and, and, and so on. so it seems to me that the, that the americans and the europeans pulling together, it may be a done deal at least until $22425.00. if we do have donald trump or another donald trump, in, in the, in the, in the white house, combine that with europe in, in patients over the prices of energy and so on. and then i think you begin to get

a different configuration. and china comes into, into that, we've already heard noises from japan just recently. and about, you know, that concerns about china and the japanese were pulled into this because they suddenly see that ukraine and the in the pacific region have, have become one if they stand up to russia. and that's obviously a big statement for the concerns they have about a coalition of the russians and the chinese not just in ukraine or into pacific, but also in europe at remember that the europeans have big interests in another part of the world. that's africa. and the americans need them in they need them in north africa. they need them in west africa. they need them in other parts of we're hardly paying attention those here. i mean,

we've had on the show, chin gong, you know, when he was ambassador of china, the united states, he's now the foreign minister. he's in china right now, is getting 56 countries there and making it a priority there. but i want to ask from the global perspective, you know, jacob and boris had been studying these issues about american engagement in the world for, for a very long time. and i guess my question is, when you just said russia and china cooperating working together, that was supposed to never happen. american statecraft transit, atlantic state crap was always designed to sort of keep that divide going. how is it that strategic chest players in the munich security conference in washington, d. c. have somehow allowed conditions where china and the united states, which ought to be geostrategic rivals are now geo strategic partners. i suppose that's unintended consequences of the, the, the situation in, in ukraine and joe biden, and his ministration worked extremely hard in the early days of the war in ukraine

to keep, to bring the europeans completely on board. we know that the germans initially were very tentative in terms of supporting the sanctions because they didn't see the sanctions as that basically serving the interests of, of germany. joe biden did manage to the amount that but you know, the unintended consequences that he brought the russians or the conflict in the ukraine has brought the russians and the chinese together. you said you're in your introduction. the biden ministration has said clearly umpteen times, they do not see russia as russia as the greatest menace to us power. they see china and the chinese are now everywhere. they are in africa. they are in the middle east. they're in the gulf, they are everywhere in the u. s. will need to, to those smaller powers in those regions to actually make sure that the

chinese do not getting in a big way in those areas for us. this a very important point. i love to get your sense of china. you written about this in your international politics quarterly. i highly recommend to people to read, keeping the transit planet mojo for future proofing. transatlantic relations with force rica wrote international politics quarterly. and i think that you outline and say that china is going to be a complicated challenge to keep transatlantic relations together. because you see, you say inertia isn't going to hold relations together. it has to be deliberate. we have to have coordinated plants where we've talked about ukraine, but how do you see the china challenge for transatlantic relations? i'm a little more optimistic than what i've just started. if i can say that. if you think back 12 months when the, this invasion, when you started this invasion, germany was important. 55 percent of gas from russia. 11 months later, january 2023 were importing 0 percent were no longer importing oil from russia. so,

from all the pain that you know, and all the difficulty that there's been i think europe has, has, with very strong support from the united states of america. dealt with this crisis and is mr. pooty was thinking that he could do, he could put a somehow rest victory from the situation. what do you seeing is that time? and again, the western allies are stepping up their support for you. so and i think that will continue and maybe germany is not going to look very leading sort of is not going to be ahead of others, but germany will be there with other partners providing equipment. the other positive that i would see is that when it comes to china, people in europe including in germany, including and the parties that support the government, the social democrats, the greens, the liberals, have understood that china is

a huge challenge. and we have started having a kind of conversation and creating a framework to address the china challenge. that's a big difference from 2 or 3 years ago. and i think the ukraine situation has also accelerated, our understanding how, how challenging and accurate china is the kinds of scenarios that we might encounter in the, in the pacific. so i think we're moving in a good direction. try take them, i want to ask you something and you and i have talked about this before, that you see this moment of kind of global reshuffling as an extraordinary opportunity for the united states. for the buyer administration. you have lot of the by the administration were being very, are in this crisis. and i'd like you to share that with us. but i'd also like to understand from you how fragile that perspective may be given what we see unfolding in the u. s. capital in washington, d. c. where there are a lot of people who just want to walk away from the rest of the world. right. we may sabotage or an opportunity, i suspect down our own hill, right. i suspect that we are headed potentially towards the uno polarity,

where the georgia is blaine. that explains, that means that the united states, as it was, after 9891991. the collapse of the soviet union that the united states is not just 1st among equals, but really the dominant power in the world. and we essentially bungle that opportunity the last time by invading iraq in squandering our own power and ruining our finances. there is a 2nd opportunity looming to met numerous domestic problems in china. and the other one is the potential disintegration of russia. if those things occur, then there really is no competitor to the united states on the world stage. however, there is ad, you're assuming that something kneecaps china, and that's not a perspective we often hear right now. correct. i am i shy away from the china hawks. i am not convinced that we are inevitably headed towards

a new cold war with china. i actually think russia represents the more dire and potent threat right now. china is been pretty careful, but china is domestic problems. i do not think that it is faded, that the united china will surpass the united states. i don't buy it. or can i say this, the, it seems to me that when it comes to china, the united states has an achilles heel which is much closer to home. just remember just a few days ago, and president biden heard from the president of mexico. had sent him in which may have sounded radical to the biden administration, but to latin americans. it's not, he said, the u. s. has been treating us with disdain. couple that with what happened in brasilia and the, the shaking of the brazilian democracy and the repercussions of that for the united states. remember that china has enormous interest with brazil, for example,

economic interest with brazil and other nations in latin america. get the foundations of democratic systems in these countries that have voted left in latin america. and you get china looming, big on the radar in latin america, often called the backyard of the united states. erase one of the questions about china, which, you know, has been arguing the, hey, we need economic globalization, but we do not need cultural imperialism. we do not need to have every country b, b, b shape the same way. you know, if you look to day at daven, davis is coming up when this, when the show will air devils will be underway a couple of weeks after that. we will have the very important munich security conference. and part of what underlies is, is whether or not autocracies, ill liberalism is an o k form of government to move economies forward. and i'm just interested. abdur rahim into what degree the chinese model has become very compelling as in north

star, for many other economies in the world, we certainly has, i mean, you take, you take a lot in america to, to start with closer to, to the us. right. and obviously countries have developed strong ties with the chinese and the chinese philosophy has run true in latin america in africa, in other parts of the world. meaning the chinese are saying, i am willing to help you some out your economic problems and i'm not going to ask any questions about a human or so freedom of the press like the americans or the europeans would do. and very, a lot of countries in these places are very receptive to that message is especially when they get the impression that the united states, rightly or wrongly this may not necessarily be true, but in their eyes. and in there is the united states is trying to disengage from

those parts of the world, and they see china as the alternative. perhaps in our last few minutes, gentlemen, i want to ask you about the biden doctrine, joe biden, jacob, you, and i have discussed this has been measured in his response, withdrew from afghanistan, which he didn't really support. even the obama administration direction in afghanistan had been measured. i think most people agree with regards to approaching ukraine in the conflict with russia. how do you see the biden doctrine going, and do you think that he's being defined by ukraine and these billions of dollars that are, that are going into ukraine and will that be something he celebrated for or will that crucify him in the 2024 election i think his election chances rise and fall in many ways on ukraine, and that is why he is pushing now hard for some kind of ukrainian victory in that territory. obviously wants some kind of negotiation,

but he is tougher than his own. national security council advisor james sullivan. i think he's more closer to tony blink and the secretary of state. but yes, biden. and you, for him, ukraine must score a significant victory over russia. in the next 6 months, prefer preferably a year at the most. because once the republicans get control of the fiscal outlays to ukraine, which they don't have right now, because they were passed in november, december by, by the congress. then all hell is going to break las abdur rahim if you were to define a bite. and when, as you see it from your perspective, what are the key contours of that? well, number one is to basically assure people outside the united states that what happened in 20 in january 2021 is not going to happen again in the us. because that really shook the confidence of many countries. many of them close our eyes of the united

states about the american political system and whether they can rely on it to provide security for them in the, in the, in the future. add to that the fact that the serious concern that the biden administration must feel right if the war in the ukraine doesn't and quickly and not just in terms of what's happening in the united states, prices and so on. there's people in some parts of the world are beginning to find it difficult to get food, and they tie him that to the biden decision to support the ukrainians fight the russian right. finally, final word to you, boris. does joe biden have a doctrine and foreign policy from your perspective? i think, you know, this is foreign policy for the middle class, which is a nice soundbite. but it, what it reflects is that you have to think when you think foreign policy, national security, you have to combine a lot of things, economic development back home, keeping up in terms of technology,

all these things. and i think the buy team has done pretty well in that regard. the one area that i think needs to be looked at closely and where improvement is necessary is right tendency towards protection, right? so better how to try to atlantic space and work together on these things, rather than closing ourselves up. thanks. great conversation, really appreciate it. munich, security conference, vice chairman boris rocha and career journalist, jacob hobbin of the national interest and abdur rahim fu car of al jazeera. thanks so much for being with us today. thanks. thanks. so what's the bottom line? the ukraine war has been a turning point in history and it's forcing every country in the world to think about where it stands. western european countries like being aligned with the united states, but they still want enough wiggle room to go their own way on some issues. america would love to go back to the ninety's when it was the world's global policeman and got its way everywhere, but its own internal divisions have undercut it soft power and blocked it from

playing all its cards. meanwhile, most of the countries don't want to be tied down by any alliance, whether it's western or chinese or whatever else. that means the old order is kind of falling apart and we're becoming more tribal. and we just care less and less about any one else, which in turn means more conflicts with the big powers more impotent than ever in dealing with them. and that's the bottom line. ah, this isn't my story. it's this story if my friend, jeez, i'm, she told us that she didn't want to be here. she didn't want to live anymore. was too hard. the survivor dedicates her life to educating and saving others from suicide. we're the ones that are dying. we're the ones that are losing our friends and therefore we have to be the ones that will stand up and solve it because no one

else is going to way. there's hope, a witness documentary on a just, you know, our coverage of africa is what i'm most proud of. every time i travel back, whether it's east, west africa, people stop me and tell me how much they appreciate coverage. and our focus is not just on their suffering, but also on the more uplifted and inspiring story. people trust volunteer to tell them what's happening in their community in a clear and unbiased. and that's an african, i couldn't be more proud to be thought of, you know, lou until mccray and doug, these are the top stories on al jazeera police in california side to main suspect in a mess.