meredith, endemic one. we come from sions, and, and we love hong kong, the ro, network suspended operations in january 2020, and only resumed them this month. family. we are here to visit our family in hong kong. i haven't seen them for 3 years, and i missed them. economists say the recovery for industries hit hard by the pandemic won't happen overnight. but there's reason for some optimism describing a confidence that when the mobility is, that'd be like a retail site course growing mall growing and also supporting the business that already has been 3 years suffer from the panoramic. as people gather festivities with their families, many a hoping this year will be much better than the last. jessica washington, the outer sierra uncle. ah no, again, i am fully back to bo, with the headlines on al jazeera pakistan has suffered

a nationwide power outage. nearly 220000000 people are affected. the energy minister blames a fault in the national electricity grade authorities say they're working to restore the system. come on, hider has more from his lam avant the follow minister forum duster gear khan was saying that in the winter months begone that at logan's armstrong at night. they don't know of some of their systems are ever in their drive were done on those systems in the morning. ah, there was a tripping out. several buoyant, undoubtedly led to a chain reaction and shutting down the national grid. this is of god, the serious issue. the minister saying that they are working on the drive to restore bhalla, that ball will, will be restored to the southern board through be of garage within the next few all words. police in the u. s. deena california, see the main suspect in a mash shooting is dead. 72 year old who can try and shot himself after. he was

cornered by police officers say he open fire at a dance studio near los angeles on saturday, killing at least 10 people. germany, foreign minister says berlin will not block poland differed besides to send it's a leopard, 2 tanks, the ukraine nato allies have been putting the pressure and chance that olaf shoulds to decide whether to supply keith with the tax. 5 civilians have been killed in an al shabba tack on the mayor's office since somali as capital mogadishu, 6 archibald fighters were killed in at least 19 people were injured in the assault turkish president reship. ty, bro, to one says he's bringing his country's elections forward a month to may 14th opinion polls shall both a presidential and parliamentary election to will be tight. the opposition has yet to announce who it's presidential candidate will be is really prime minister benjamin list now has fired a senior cabinet member. i a dairy served as interior and health minister at the i

was forced to sack him after the supreme court ruled. he could not serve because of a conviction for tax offenses. the government is facing growing criticism over its plan to reform the judicial system. and those are the headlines on al jazeera is always much more news on our website at on to 0. dot com inside story is next. on counting, the global economy is fracturing, is this the ends of globalization? well, super rich big ball wealthier than everyone else. over the last 2 years, plus china dominates the red market, but europe just found it largest deposit of the metals, counting the call on al jazeera turkey and sweden again at all this time, i'm cra, is angry or the burning of koran outside the turkish embassy. and stuff, and like all nato members, it holds a veto over sweden's bids to join the alliance. what is the real thing, the relation between the 2 countries and can overcome the differences?

this is inside story. ah. hello there and welcome to the program. i'm laura kyle turkish swedish relations again in the spotlight that softer a fall. right activist, destroyed a copy of the koran. outside the turkish embassy in stock home on saturday. police didn't intervene when was most was painted on who has both danish and swedish nationality addressed a small group before desecrating islamic holy book. takia cancelled a visit by sweden's defense minister and summoned at sam baset. a speaking on saturday took his foreign minister, expressed his government's anger, made zip. now in sweden,

this madman has insulted our religion won and our holy book, the koran, and has committed such acts before this is a racist act. that is also a hate crime. when we heard the news, we took the necessary steps, if you will, have it all or get it, you know, the woman that we called sweden's ambassador to ankara to our ministry. we made the necessary warning, or ambassador in stock home met directly with the sweetest foreign minister and conveyed our thoughts on the matter. no one can call this freedom of thought. they don't allow the burning of another religious book, but when it comes to the koran and islam a phobia, the immediately say freedom of expression and freedom of thought, hate crime and racism are not freedom of thought. it is not according to sweetness law, nor is it according to the decisions of the council of europe. according to the european court of human rights ruling, he crime and racism are not freedom of thought and freedom of expression. sweden has condemned the incident. foreign minister tobias built on said it was appalling

. he wrote on twitter. sweden has a far reaching freedom of expression, but it does not imply that the swedish government all myself support the opinions expressed called belt as the former sweetest prime minister and the co chair of europe in council form relations. begin to al jazeera. he said the far right protest had nothing to do with the government. the swedish government has nothing to do with ever. with what sort of isolated extreme is loonies of which we have some means we. we are not entirely alone in the world and have the loonies running around in the streets. wanted to do things. and police tried to say that they see that they do it places that doesn't cause any harm and suite the public doesn't really take. and the note, this particular guy has been doing it several times before at several locations. it has nothing to do with the swedish government. all the incident come to us at her country's navigate a series of diplomatic hurdles,

sweden and finland want to join nato, following russia. invasion of ukraine as a member of the alliance kit can be to an application and so far has not approved sweden's request. sweden is also home to enlarge. curtis community up to 100000 strong care, has demanded sweden take a tough a stones against the ledge. kurdish militants thoughts of the p k. k which is outlawed and grow also wants action taken against the ledge. members of the gland movement, which it blames for a co attempt in 2016. ah. ok, let's bring in our get now. and instruction is philip o connor, a journalist covering social and political issues in sweden for more than 2 decades . an anchor is met k, the associate professor has son call younger university and especially on turkish foreign policy and security issues and in oxford were joined by samuel romani associate fellow at the royal united services institute of i will welcome to all of

you for that. let's start with you and sweden's freedom of expression. is it too far reaching, allowing thought to provoke, to act like this, but many countries around the world would consider a hate crime. i think that's the big debate in sweden at the moment, laura, after the burning of the koran, as mentioned in the report, fred: prior to our discussion there, this is not the 1st time that ross was paula don has done this in suite and he seeks to go around, he seeks to provoke this kind of reaction, and he's made it very much about air, freedom of speech. now, there's no sort of coincidence that he's going around bernie, a koran rather than a christian bible. because this is the kind of thing that he thinks is going to provoke a backlash against muslims in this country. and he is part of the movement that doesn't want to see on the bosoms in this country. so far, what he did yesterday is entirely legal. that's the way it's been interpreted in this country. freedom of speech is if the constitution per protected right here in sweden and it's very, very well protected. so as the foreign minister was saying,

he may not agree with what was said yesterday, but he does agree with the right to say it. the problem that many people would see here, laura, is that it wasn't a problem when the air poly them was going to most themselves are predominantly most of suburbs in places like green could be outside of stock. homer rosengold outside malmo, then nobody, no minister came out and said this was terrible for the for several years. was paula down was doing it. but now in the middle of the process of applying for nato membership. and when this angers, turkey, all of a sudden, the government appears to be take it much more seriously than what they did previously. the tech is foreign minister said that the countries would not allow the burning of other religious books. is that correct? or would swedish knows also allow the padding of the bible? i tickets open to interpretation. you would have to say that given that they say this about the koran will then automatically they would have to say the same thing about the bible. they would have to say the same thing about pride, flags, et cetera. there are anti hate speech laws in this country, but it's very much, you know, it's very hard to predict what way the courts are going to george and certain in

certain ways yesterday. i mean there was probably more police and journalist there yesterday and there was spectators. and yet not one of them saw fit to arrest paula down for any sort of heresy or any sort of blasphemy whatsoever. so would appear to what he did yesterday, and not only that, he had to apply for permission to have this little gathering yesterday. so in to every extent possible, it was entirely legal. nobody intervened from the police and that, and of course, to the turkish ambassadors, the most provocative thing. so you would imagine that in the pony of a bible will be equally tasteless. what equally the eagle, under sweetest freedom of expression laws as they stand and are interpreted at the moment. i can when you hear this, i mean it comes down, doesn't it? to simply being a clash of values? would you perhaps agree that takia has over reacted to something that's happened in another country that abides by different laws. he event hardly attracted any attention and to be honest, received a relatively muted response from the rest of the islamic world. laura, of course, we have to evaluate the issue in 2 different fields. because 1st of all,

the location, the rent has taken place in front of the turkish embassy and is that really freedom of expression? the 2nd issue is this one, because i think respect horticultural diversity, respect to all the beliefs and religions should be also a part of putting them as well. because if you're directly start attacking to other religions, they are holding books and other things or put up it's extra time. then this will go on with all the drama activities incidents as well. and this will be automatically extremism in every aspect. as we already have witness, for example, in france and in other countries also. so there is a very, very chance to balance here. we're,

we've been the freedoms and the security as well. i think the put them over person should and at the place when the freedom of another person has toddler. so be, should be very careful about this one. of course, the baseline on the ground for to come together together mutual agreement is should be the legal issues under regulations here. but the interpretation of the regulations may be different from the perspectives of 2 countries. and of course the to, to get real interpreted. we didn't throw in her window, and i think she's right at the moment because turkey, nobody will attempt such an issue in front of the swedish embassy to burn a bible or something like that. then it will not be as a putting more expression. you do say though, that it's risks of provocative acts following on from that. so in the argument perhaps though, is that anchor is response to this act has caused much more of

a coverage of this event than that was initially that would mean that was a protest of accounted process of some 100 people who peacefully opposed what this man was doing it really didn't gone and much of a media coverage. it certainly hadn't sparked any copycat incident. it's only turkey's response to it, but has kept the story alive. i think we should do it in this way because each a little flyer may trigger and other one in europe. so i think the governments should take for questions which may have a potential to feed all the extreme. it's actions for other communities because in every concrete there are a lot of immigrants and, and minorities. so you have to protect the rice also because you this start to be a clash between the cultures and religions in sweden as well. for example,

then on the one site, you stumble, cobia or onto your stomach moments on the other side. some problem, ignorant groups, other actions may start and then this may, you pay to other actions, destructions, grotesque, et cetera, everywhere. so i think the governments should be very careful about this one sort of how much attention this is when the government actually paying to turkeys. criticism of this event, wanting to for a sense of at the moment, laura, just because of the nato application. and because of the sensitive nature of those discussions you mentioned in your introduction there, but the status of the kurdish people, i think at turkey, is trying to maximize anything that they can get from these negotiations before it eventually does allow sweden and finland to join nato. but often made a very interesting point there about fire on this small fire, maybe leading to bigger fires. one of the things that fire needs to prosper is of

course oxygen on by giving paula down the oxygen of publicity. we're actually sort of feeding the fire of what he did. again, he's done this many times before and it hasn't provoked this kind of response. in fact, people in sweden and around europe and maybe even in the muslim world, have tired of 40 was doing. i was speaking to a school child recently tried to born a koran, as i to school at one part and the local kids, you know, to try to provoke local mobile muslim kids into maybe doing something violent and they just ignore them. and the protest didn't happen in the end. he didn't even born the book, but boy was coming and having this discussion today, it's almost like we're giving it a credibility that it doesn't deserve. but it is something that can be used in diplomatic leverage, because tortilla holds all the cards here in terms of, you know, there may be, let's describe the most, the last barrier towards finan, the sweden entering the you. and if they think the something diplomatically or politically to be gained by using the situation with paula down on the burning of the koran outside the turkey at the turkish embassy there. well, maybe that's the sort of well within the political right to do so. what us my up

med mentioned, it goes risk finding the flames even further. okay. say stanley. let's look at this . let's look at the extent to which takia is using it. step fanatic. leverage at the moment and the timing of its protests against what's happening in sweden because it was of course, as he mentioned in the introduction, protesting as well against a pro kurdish protest that hung up an effigy of underwent by his feet. it's kicking up a lot of fuss about this at this particular junction. why? what is the several factors here? first of all, is the domestic political factor, obviously, or no one is looking to our selections. he's looking towards political survival. and showcasing turkey is a strong actor against lama phobia across the world, especially in the western world. is part of is a domestic image i made from korea, criticized in the forgotten genocide of or against her. he yeah, indiana mar, calling in his lobby and is, i'm phobia in europe. that's a key part of isab brand and foreign policy edition turkey,

sam position within nato as probably why do, uniquely yes, strong. in terms of leverage, the a stroke is indispensable mediator. now, between russia and ukraine and also as a back channel between russia and the west. i was seen that deborah fruit with the black sea grain export deal was probably the most significant diplomatic, and she had been so far. so turkey feels enough, lot of cars to play with the west as trying to squeeze or sweden as much as possible in terms of making concessions on extradition of cards and other other suspects that wants to bring back up and lead. to what extent would you accept that is to kill stalling on sweden joining nato. and why is it here? i think there are also 3 different sites on parties initial on the one site to look here, which is a member of the nato. and who holds a visa card in her hands. the 2nd is sweden and i think in sweden also there are different parties and also some parties i think are opposing for the membership of

the student natal. and so we see these kind of incidence which may provoke the angle to, to care and which will support to, to kiss or position for the membership of sweden to nato. so we can see these kind of koran burning or an adult once popular hanging or those kind of protests then events in sweden. so i think in sibley then also there is not just a consensus on the membership. on the other side, we have the top parties on the other nato members like united states of america, which use, for example, tar, keep turkey has a request for f, 16 fighters as the leverage. and so they say this is, these 2 issues are totally different. but i think cowardly, this is being used by the american congress and american minister reporting affairs

as a leverage airport to, to, to accept the memberships 3 of them. and i think when the time passed, we will see that the negotiations will take on this grant. and i think united states will agree to sell those port, the f 16 fighter certificate and to cable accept sweetness membership. tonight i think ok. ok. so that's an issue between the u. s. and turkey to bring it back to sweden, tucking them onto the extradition of a number of people. who are they? ah, yup. eh, here normally it during the summer time. typical request to 2 to 3 people done, but man, it later increase the number to 40 to 60 know which from p k. k organization. they are embedded to p k. k terrorists organization to elk beach, put on glen organisation. 7, put on other left. being terrorist organizations and 7 are included in these smuggling type activities. so totally 42 people are asked to be

handled over a turkey and as being the members of a different headers organizations or has been involved with different crimes as rock, trafficking, or smuggling, et cetera. and most of these peak ok, there is organizations, managers who were involved in planning or attack activities at which a turkish people suffer a lot for more than 40 years or are among them. so he'll know sweden didn't take any step about this one. let, let's, let's find out why it still does festival fell to sweden, except the turkish accusations against these 42 people. and secondly, how likely is it if a tool that it will extradite them? there's a bit of a difference there, laura, between what the government thinks and what the courts think. okay, so the way the courts make their decision is very different or the way the government might, might make their decision, their decision. and you have to look at the case as all the cases and the

extradition cases. the come before the court. what people are accused of and not least if they can expect to form a fair trial when they do a get to turkey. if they are extradited there on how will they be treated? will they be subjected to torture? again, will they have the right to a fair trial to a fair defense and so on. and that's been the sticking point in many of these extradition cases. as far as i know, some have already been extradited and there are many more cases going through the courts. with the sticking point has been that idea of the fair trial and whether or not they will be subjected to torture when they get. the other thing is that sweden has long had a reputation as a son of a guardian of human rights. it's a place of money, a dissidence of com, you know, from pinochet's, chile, to iraqi dissidents, to iranian distance, throughout the last 405060 years, and maybe the whole post war period. so it has been a sort of a, a haven, if you like, for people of different political persuasions. and again, i'm sure the kurdish people would describe the people being described as terrorist by turkey as their freedom fighters. so this is the big debate that's going on, and again, they have a very,

very high ceiling for this kind of thing. it comes back to freedom of speech and what people are allowed to do politically, i suppose, in the post 911 world, last 20 years, the war terrorists and the war terrorism has been thrown around an awful lot as country seek to position themselves diplomatically. so again, the swedish government cannot be seen to try to influence or intervene with the court system. those 2 things are entirely separate and indeed it goes hand in hand with the way they treat freedom of speech as well. that these things should be independent of one another. samuel, how sensitive is tech heat to sweep in the support of the cards we'll all imagined? is it what the nato membership pen hinges on? well, i think that it certainly is a factor, obviously. so turkey is also trying to take retribution against countries that it pulls and arms embargo were critical of turkey's ass conduct against the kurds say in syria, so particularly the 2019 operation piece spring offensive. and that's probably kind

of a delayed retribution for that. but i think that if obviously, and there have been a fractious history of the relation between sweden and turkeys and swearing can. but if the need a membership issue was on the table, it probably wouldn't have been as significant as a bargaining chip. so i think that the need a membership is really what's driving it, but there is and she attention and disagreements over turkish palsy in syria and sweden and a general up and down that relationship and bilateral nature since 2010. yeah, i just want to come across it. hello. my apologies. i think it's very important as well to, to, to see the corridors perspective in this because these are people distance who came here from various parts of kurdistan, who feel that they were offered to sort of a haven here in sweden. i know all of a sudden that they're being sacrificed on the altar of sweden's application to nato because turkey wants to react in this particular way. and there's more than a 100000, maybe people of kurdish extraction here in this country. and they feel quite betrayed. i'm thought and torn is sort of adding to both local political thing, but also the geopolitical situation with turkey is how was this question going to be handled? and yet again,

this as of so often happened in this part of the world. the chords are the center of this stone. i could talk, he has many weaker says since that at shelters within tuck he, it wouldn't extradite them to china. is that not the same situation? a big look in that perspective. i think it is normal for companies to have different perspectives, but they should try to have an empathy in this case, for example, if any terrorist organization in so we that makes bumping attacks and then to, to get in touch to be a safe haven for them. to leave, what might sweet regular swedish schisms a thinking about this one? so the situation is more or less the similar, but i think handing over the people or the planning them as the freedom fighters should be left to the of course course. and the evidence should be evaluated in the industry, not the political build, the site who will be handed or what are the portrait. and of course,

we didn't this manner. so we have the respect for the decisions of the course for both countries, and also the sweden side for the ask for do evidences. and if it's proved that these are directly involved in such a terrorist, him in silence, then i think the precautions should be taken legally in this way. but this is, this is, shouldn't be a kind of threat for the putting them up all other courts leaving. and so we don't show the misunderstandings should be prevented as well on the i think in this perspective with 5 say that it suits took care to be stalling on sweden and finland membership to nato. as it tries to navigate a relationship between ukraine, but more critically with bruton we will see a very difficult question actually. maybe for him long now it'll be to kids getting more and more positive and because in pill and i think we have less members because

it took care of asking only for 6 people. but for some reason, it is getting difficult every day because we see the protest and the publication is increasing. actually, i think some organizations are trying to do destruction or harm to this progress, the membership of sweden progress to the ne, to as well. so we will see because the russian war youth rate has turned out to be a real threat for some of the european countries. and that's why they do not feel comfortable for themselves. and toward a coupon many years protected and has become the front line at the southeastern part of the natal. that's why i think did today to, to get also wants other countries to understand, to, to cares shakuti, to threats and evaluations as well in their perspectives as about what we should look at in district. i just want to get the last point to you. do you think sweden

and defend and will get granted membership and they told by turkey without them having to sacrifice the moral superiors, their moral superpower, why he does have a question. i think that there may be some sacrifices that are made on the edges like selective ex, traditions or selective. i like that which are done by the courts. i think in general they will probably be achieved. first of all, there's a tremendous amount of political will and i both leaders in land to get this done. they've abandoned neutrality. sweden is concerned about a russian threat to the baltic states and even to goblin to lend is equally concerned about the russian product give rocketed naval gels, the gulf and land, and moreover, industry to those conventional rats, sweden and finland are actively cooperating. the nato on army ukraine, participating in cybersecurity exercises, and also creating and integrated by baltic sea front and even of turkey's work. that's it, but that it towards been land right now. freedom if it might have got to join together. but i think they alternately will join a lot of pressure from other nato states to make turkey gave us a tricky, it's

a marginal concessions and hungry as expected. next month, the votes for fast weakness and lent you joined the alliance. i think that they're probably going to join us in bass will be resolved, hopefully in 2023. okay. it's been a great discussion. thanks very much to all our guests for joining us today, philip or kona ultimate and some romani and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting a website that's onto 0 dot com. and for further discussion to go to while facebook page, that's facebook dot com full slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter a handlers arts ha inside story from me laura kyle and the whole team. half bye for now. ah.

a just turns the man tough question. what exactly are you asking for you? what the troops on the ground, the rigorous, the way we challenge conventional wisdom, racism is so deeply entrenched in the country that is identified with america. so when you challenge racism, it looks as if you're challenging of mirror and demand the truth. there is no serious discussion about this because it goes to the very root of who we are up front with me, mark lamond hill. what, how does it from the al jazeera london, rural call center to people in thoughtful conversation. generally, whenever you talk about race races and people like to play with no host and no limitations, our society has structural racism built into a part one of 5. the shaheen and adam rather fed low pay people tend to be migrant

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