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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  January 25, 2023 2:30pm-3:01pm AST

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starkey patrol boats and search aircraft were delayed by the bad weather. a series of powerful storm systems of sweat through the southern state of texas. a tornado damaged electricity lines and houston leaving about a 120000 people without power. torrential rain and strong winds cause flooding across the city. no serious injuries were reported. the columbia navy here sees more than 4 tons of cocaine. it was found in this semi submersible ship that was intercepted along columbia's coast for crew members being investigated for allegedly manufacturing. and trafficking drugs. oh, chris hipkins has been sworn in as new zealand prime minister. they follows the support that surprised resignation of just into our durn last week. it faces the task of reviving the government's wading popularity ahead of october's general election. ah,
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this is al jazeera, these, the top stories germany has finally agreed to send its leopard 2 tanks to ukraine. keith has been pleading for weeks for the tax, which it says are essential in this fight against russian forces. berlin will deliver 14 of the combat vehicles from his armies existing stock. and it's also allowing partner countries to send a german made tanks from their arsenals to ukraine. donna kane has more from berlin . well, what happens now? we know it's a company of tanks, that's 14 tanks which will be sent from germany to ukraine. we know also that it's the release of re export rights for other countries who bought leopard twos from germany. they will also be able to send their tax to ukraine. first things 1st, they will need to be training for the ukrainian crews who will operate these tanks in ukraine. and the german government says that those who will be using the german weapons will have training in germany, south africa,
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its main opposition parties holding rallies nationwide against power cuts and an electricity price increase. most households go without power for at least 6 hours a day. businesses have been forced to rely on expensive generators. bangladesh is main opposition. party has called for rally is across the country to demand action to curb high fuel and food prices. it wants prime minister shake has siena to resign, and a caretaker government to take over until the elections are held. hundreds of people in iraq are protesting against the fall and the value of the national currency. there's a live pictures of the rocky capital. the dina has been weakening for weeks and on monday, iraq's prime minister remove the governor of the central bank in response. rescue as a searching for 8 people missing after their ships sank southwest of japan, the vessel was carrying 22 crew members. when the captain sent out a distress call, that was during a storm on tuesday night. it sank 3 and
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a half hours later. the powerful storm system had swept through the southern us state of texas or tornado also damaged electricity lines in the city of houston, leaving more than a 120000 people without power. there no injuries were reported. hooking you up today. those are the headlines. the news continues here in al jazeera that's out inside story. stay with us for that. we know what's happening in our region. we know how to get to places that others can on. i was just thrown dear guy by that, put it on purpose. instead of going on with the way that you tell the story is what can make a difference. can universal jurisdiction stop impunity? human rights group has filed a lawsuit in germany against me involve military leadership, accused of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. but on this lawsuit changed the situation
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on the ground. this is inside story. ah. hello there and welcome to the program. i'm nora. kyle human rights group has filed a criminal complaint in germany, accusing men miles of military of genocide. a group of survivors from ethnic groups across man mall have built the case and what activists say is a show of unity that once seemed unthinkable. the trial brought by fortify rights is also accuses the military of crimes against humanity and war crimes over it cracked down on rank muslims in 20162017 security force is allegedly carried out. mass rapes and mud is doing what authority is called a clearance operation. matthew smith is the head to fortify rights. he explains who
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the complainants are and why this case is so important. it's about half of the complainants in the case, survived the rank of genocide in 2016, 2017. in about half of the complainants have survived or witnessed mass atrocity crimes that occur that occurred since the crew on february 1st 2021. so it is a diverse group of people putting their faith and hope in german authorities that they may achieve some measure of justice the investigation. the international criminal court is very important, but that focuses narrowly on force. deportation is a crime against you many against ro hangup. so it doesn't cover the mass atrocity crimes that are unfolding on a daily basis. we're seeing massacres. village is getting burned down. people getting arrested, tortured, killed every day and me and more. and so with regard to the case at the international court of justice in the hague, that is a case that essentially deals with disputes between states. so that is focusing
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exclusively on state responsibility for the rank of genocide. so in other words, there is no individual criminal liability that will stem from those proceedings at the i c j. the very important case, the gambia has done a great thing and bringing that case, but it is, it is very different from what we're, what we're pushing for in germany. now, it's important that we recognize that not a single perpetrator from me and mar, despite a lot of attention internationally over the years, not a single perpetrator has been held accountable for these heinous crimes. while man mas ruling john to has played a long and brutal role in the country, and 2016 and 17, a campaign of a trustees by the army on the muslim or hanging that hundreds of thousands thing across the border into bangladesh. the world expressed outrage on the general's face charges of genocide at the international court of justice looked with also under investigation at the international criminal court. and 2016 uncle eugene was
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elected leader in the military brief experiments with democracy ended in 2021. on the 1st of february, sushi was one of thousands arrested when the military seized back power from the civilian government, which ends as violent, crack, down against all opposition. has since united many of the country diverse ethnic groups against the military rulers. ah, well, here are guests and in london, christopher gunners, director of the man more accountability project, also in london to be captain lawyer and co founder of the gun could group. and joining us from location mon not disclosing for his safety is dr. spectrum for the national guilty government of men law and just the notes that our team has reached out to men miles genta, but we did not receive a response. so let's get the discussion going. and chris, in this case in germany,
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it's just one of a number that have been filed in a number of different countries. do you support it? because your own organization has filed a separate case in turkey, has it not? we absolutely supposed to be very clear to pull the work order. it's like 4 to 5, right? like toby's organization, get me and others who are basically closing in as best they can using all instruments, both of the legal incidents, all the jumps. so yes, you're right. there is a case in argentina that now this case in germany. we have a case in turkey. and just in the next day, i will be testifying to the indonesian constitutional court about the possibility of bringing a case in indonesia. and we are also in conversation with legal experts in the philippines where we think the prospect for a case of trial a very good. so we're hoping to do more work in 2023 in acton. but to be clear, we absolutely support this case with force by rights. we hope that the german
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prosecutors will open not just a structural investigation, but we'll move to an actual investigation. it's not clear that they will, but we absolutely join the call by 4 people rock by rights, and i'm sure by danica and others, the more pressure we can bring on the jump to from legal work, the better you organization approach that you fuckers office in turkey, back in march. what's happened since then? well, i'm pleased to say that the chief prosecutor example has accepted a file he had sent it off to the ministry of justice in ankara. they are very actively investigating. and the good thing about these investigations is a john to knows that being scrutinized. yes, the wheels of international law turn very slowly, but they do turn going back to the i can trial the not the in israel own through the work of the full use flavio, which still cared to manage lots of. it's actually in the hague,
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along to the lambda genocide. so i can understand the, some slight cynicism behind the title of your program. the idea that you know, will be accountability. we say absolutely. that's why we're all working. there will be accountability, it will take time. and in the meantime, the johnson, which is clearly committing genocide, it's committing crimes against humanity, torture matter the most appalling airable bob and of civilian targets without any due respect for international law that relates to the protection of it. is all about the note, but this works of them. notice that they are being scrutinized that being investigated. and we hope we pray that some day they will be in court and ultimately out of has happened to you just places and others. they will be banned up in prison, which is where they belong to be 2 questions or initially do these cases brig about
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accountability 1st and secondly, why launched them in multiple different countries? here? let me just support and endorse everything that chris said, and i think it is important to to, to adopt a multi jurisdictional approach in cases like this. and i for one think that supports the initiative in germany. i think it is an important advance on ensuring accountability and quite often we look at different jurisdictions that may be victims in, in those jurisdictions that may be suspects within the sort of the, the refugee pole. and so quite often you will look at the opportunities to present themselves just today. we've had the, the switched federal prosecutor seeking to bring charges against the gambia, national in a matter that we were involved with over the years. and so it is,
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it is significant and it does have an impact when you have a vacuum of accountability in the jurisdiction in the country where the crimes were committed, you have to the elsewhere. when there are limitations on international jurisdiction, you have to look to universal jurisdiction in order to, to ensure that the victims have a voice. and that is the process which is aimed holding these individuals accountable for, for the most precious crimes. and the situation in mind mo, with the, the apply to the right range, which have, have been subjected to as chris is quite right. they said, i policy all of genocide. then, of course, you have to look at whatever opportunities you can. and germany has certainly shown itself in the last couple of years as to be appropriate for him in relation to the holding him regime tickets accountable holding isis members accountable. so germany
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has increasingly advanced as one of the countries where there is a process where accountability can be pursued, but that is happening across europe. and we shouldn't limited just one jurisdiction . but toby, do these cases not risk, undermining the work of the international court. the federal criminal court and the international court of justice, which also have cases new investigations in to me and my underway would be the whole, the whole practice something commercial criminal court is, is based on a process off complementarity. and so it, it is, it is complementary to the national distinction. and quite often as again chris has, has quite rightly stated that the wheels, international justice, as, as, as you had said, the wheels in general justice move very slowly. sometimes you have to, you can't just rely on international accountability and, and if we look at the court in particular, it has very limited resources to, to,
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to dedicate to cases of this kind. it is only going to hold accountable the most senior military leaders, military political leaders who are responsible for the genocide. and so that has to be a compliment to process in order to hold those potentially slightly lower down the chain of command accountable. and so just focusing and waiting for the actual criminal court to conclude their investigations and bring charges is not a sensible strategy when you're looking at a conflict or a situation such as this, dr. sasa, let's take a step and read a chris. of course, laura, will you bring a dose of who i think will be interest more? i'm about to say, i'm to add and build on what toby has said. the british government and over and dozens of other member states referred putin and his aggression against ukraine to
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the international criminal court. and if the british government, the pen holder at the security council in new york wanted to refer the mamma juncture, not for the security council, but file actually to the i c. c. they could do it. and groups like of math and others, are pushing very hard for the british government and others to do that. they've not done it and they have not given us a decent explanation of why they haven't done it. the nation you to government ought to saucer. and his exit ministers have made a declaration that they accept the jurisdiction of the court. why hasn't written? why haven't other member states of the rooms that, that governs the international clinical. why haven't they made a reference to the court justice they had for putin and i'm sure doctor says it will have things to say about that let, it won't accept. let's bring you in at this point. why do you feel that the u. k. another you and member state haven't referred the jump turned to the ins national criminal court. i think it is a very pardon of fastly dead. we have to stop our desert
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genocide ongoing on a ground in my country boma and as it clearly you j. u. s. u, an ard or international committee has these power to stop these crime against humanity is a crucial that the country like you gay, an e u, and other international free world, sub board, and support the case of genocide, a gains. the military generals in miramar support can be a case in a seizure and referee these military to nurse in miramar into i c. c. and we absolutely support and corporate, fully wit. i sir. tradition and i see says tradition and also universal traditions. and i think is a very orderly that will,
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the will note that we use absolutely support. this is the case be filed against genocide or military muma in germany or to reduce and process. i think germany is the country that can understand the pain and a sufferer to people of miramar, given the nature of hibler and atrocity, have committed. the same thing is happening with genocide or military generosity. muma. if we take a step inside miramar with you for just a moment, because there are a number of human rights groups and lawyers inside the country who are cooperating with the german authorities in this case, give us a sense, give us an idea of what sort of danger they face there. are these a very poor am that the lawyer on human rights and any sensible our lawyer understand? we are talking about schumann being we are talking about parsons individuals. these
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v themes of the military's are a mother, a father, sisters, and brothers. and a human being. and these military generals, dom miramar, have been caught me. think these crimes against humanity with com clipped impunity. they must be hold accountable. and i think is a very potent dad. we bring the maximum pressure to the military and then suction them with coordinated and targeted. and then these are military, we have to know they door understand what's the understand. action is a time for you to not know community to take action and bring justice to the survivor. and these give himself genocide, chris, what evidence is there if any, that the general's care about these cases that
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a bring big brought about the mute you said earlier that the case is closing in on them. but do you think they feel that because they're certainly still acting as if they come with impunity? there is some evidence all be anecdotal, mid on line. did you know the pol pot hammer an house issued to his army to his staff? a directive about 6 months ago, more address to which simply said, do not cooperate with the mechanisms of international justice. so that's one, i think very clear sign that they are aware that the work that groups like cars are doing. the other thing i have an anecdotally and it said that men on line is frightened of 2 things. first of all, the buddhist notion of commer that he might not have a good next life. and the other is criminal accountability being banged up in the hague. like other dictators of our aid. so i'm, you know, there is some evidence of that, but i think the important other thing to say about this is that the confluence of
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international, this legal work and public advocacy is very interesting because of either at the united nations general assembly, for example, which has been considering the credentials and has rejected the rec credentials of the johnson unanimously. on 2 occasions it matters their that groups like anica, like matt, like sorted by rights of doing this work because it plays in the it to the political dynamics. and ultimately, what you need for successful prosecutions. yes, you need the legal process to be right. but what helps that enormously is a public environment in which accountability and justice actually matter. so the energy that you create around these cases actually has that effect. so it's not just a question of the john to ignoring it, actually set an international mood if you like, that these people are isolated, they're being pursued by justice. and that has knock on effects in all sorts of
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other areas. and i'm a butler, i'm not going to put her to seed to the counsel of despair on what universal jurisdiction can do. i and others are salute the determine that we will find justice for victims of it might take a long time. but the lesson of you just marvia, the lesson of rwanda is the people who commit these crimes will ultimately and can alternately be held accountable. christy let me directly onto my next question, which i was going to give to toby. i mean, this notion of justice has come up time and time again by doc sasa, by chris, can universal justice, bring victims a sense of justice in this fair in the sphere of universal jurisdiction. it's a very easy question to answer. yes, of course. and it has done in a number of respects. i mean, if we look at the, the syrian cases in germany,
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we look at what's now being done on the gambling case in switzerland. we look at what our group had done as far as the salvador case in spain. so there is, of course, there is, there is a history of justice being delivered to the victims. and of course, you know what one person considers to be adjust resolution is not the same for all victims. i mean, the fact that cases are being pursued and accountability is being pursued is significant. and that does have an impact whether that results in an individual ultimately being convicted and sentenced by court of law. of course, that's what we will strive for, but it is the fact that we're not forgetting what has happened and what continues to happen in mind. mom, when we look at all of the complex around the world, now attention changes. the attention of the community is very limited.
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and it's that we don't forget what's happened. we continue to strive. so i think it's, it is important for 4 or the groups involved to continue to push for capital c, when the only route is presently universal jurisdiction. i mean, the thing that we have to consider as has been status. so the, what's happening at the court justice is not individual criminal responsibility. is state response, been reaching convention against genocide. what's happening? i've been to the criminal court. obviously, we wanted to be quicker, but that is only going to look at and it kind of look at and for staple taishan, because of the fact that the, the un security council who is deadlocked in referring any situation to the internal criminal court, the only jurisdiction that they were able to, to establish was through forceful deportation from, from monmouth, into neighbor,
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bangladesh, which is a state party to the right statute. so the limits of jurisdiction inter from court means that we have to turn to universal jurisdiction. and what is particularly encouraging is when you see groups working together, when you see fit and working together to pursue just wherever they can find that it has significant. don't go to that. you've fled to me in my field life when the military are launched at k, on the 1st of february of 2021. you left behind family, you left behind friends who are persecuted. what does justice look like to you? well, it's totally important because just imagine the only crime i have been accused of call meeting was freedom of expression. i stand up for democracy in a freedom and human rights in my country because of that, i'm proud that the military charges me with high treason that carry that sentences
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for my colleagues who are not, who have been very unlucky, arrested, and executed. and we'd kill at the a go meeting, a donation of crime if one of international community in my country, mamma at these crime against humanity we're talking about is totally unacceptable. and i mean, this has been there for our people, my people 75 years. follow him. go brothers and sisters. 50. yes. how many movie? cade's these military generosity in burma will be along to enjoy with complete paternity. because of that, just because of i said, are for democracy. the are ducky, the not only me but my family, my mother was sick with cancer states for and she was changed by the military.
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and he said, if you live in this village will be kill and it was totally unspeakable cain and soft free that they have caused to my family. and now again, not only to my family, now we are talking about murdered 3 paulson you know, sent been killed in the last 24 months. more than 20000 innocent people are been arrested mordred, party 5 pals, and churches. schools, hospitals, villagers, house are been bomb because they talk about freedom and in talk about human rights . so just this is absolutely mother's to us. and this is the international community there can bring it just is of my people, the mascot of all the fine us. all the work in the lease applied to the military. now there were end,
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at least stop these 1st crime against humanity. chris and the one minute that we have left. why have the world not taken more action? let me hear stories such that out to that as a combination of both politics and racism, we've seen with ukrainians that europeans, the white, the christian, the not ground, not wisdom that comes along the way way. so i think 1st of all, we have to deal with some hang up and the whole question of mamma, and secondly, the politics. you know, if it were further up the agenda, if countries like britain the pen hold up in the council, could actually motivate, mobilize some political support in the international community. there is support that it just needs to be mobilized. so yes, racism and politics that we can deal with those 2 things, the people mamma would have had justice a long time ago. okay. well let's hope they will still fit with the processes that are in place today. thank you very much to all our guests for joining us. christopher on this, toby, catherine and dr. south them and thank you to for watching. you can see the program
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again anytime by visiting our website. that's al jazeera dot com and discussion to gauge well facebook page at facebook dot com slash ha inside story. it also join the conversation on twitter. handle this as a inside story from me, laura kyle on the whole team here. bye for now. the ah. debating the issues of the day, the 5 largest polluters of the world are in india. jump into the street. they made
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