to dominate the eastern areas of south africa rolling into s, we're teeny, by the time we get into thursday. and unfortunately the wet weather continues to played madagascar as well as northern areas of mozambique etcher weather update. ah, the 1970s was a pivotal time for cinema and theater in the middle east and north africa. in the 2nd of a 2 part series al jazeera world meets the creative risk takers who broke new ground, thought censorship, and developed their own voices. the seventy's in the arab world stage and screen on al jazeera, grief and anger in pakistan, after dozens of people are killed in an attack, i am asking for shower. the pakistani taliban has been laid where their security

failures and can be battled government when the war against the armed court. this is inside story. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm fully back table. pakistan is morning, roughly a 100 people killed in a suicide bombing at a mask in bish our. the attack was the latest in a series blamed on the cherokee taliban or the pakistani taliban. but the group leadership has distance itself from the bombing se holy places should not be targeted. however, it hasn't come commented on why one of its commanders initially claimed responsibility the attempt to place in a highly fortified police compound. so was there a security failure? and what's behind the increase in attacks in pakistan will be putting those

questions and more to, i guess in just a few minutes. but 1st, this report from command hyder in bush hour. i'm standing on what was the roof of the mosque. it was afternoon prayer, the suicide bomber had placed himself in the front row of the congregational prayer, and i did renew detonator, did your wife? although demand rescue and relief and recovery effort and now over, you can still find the rescue teams here in order to ensure that nobody is still under the rubble and unaccounted fall. this had been a difficult operation guided out in the dead of the night. but it had also left difficult questions for the o. tarter deed, what were doing when they knew that they were the security today, the intelligence agency, the had door, your daughter deans, that suicide bombers had penetrated into the studio for shaw. that they were the tent of an imminent attack. but they took it lightly, that had

a sense of complacency. people have go on. so for what happened here? how did the suicide bomber get into such a sensitive place? answered are needed by the people who are angry. that asking difficult questions, but the administration under your tartar did, except for, for the opportunity will tell you that there isn't a fight against a dead. it is what the people warned as security deed. hundreds of policemen were brendan care dead, a fort soldier who in short peace and security in this country, but they're not the most walner but. and we have seen an increasing spirit of our dogs against a policeman who have been complaining that they don't have sophisticated equipment . they don't have flag jacket, they don't have the kind of sophisticated weapons that the dentist are using. people in bucharest on have rendered great sacrifice and over the past few years or what 80000 people have laid down their lives in this country. and i've got

a big question now raised in the administration, able to. busy cope with the new challenge, people that asking difficult questions. the test is very high. the enemy ordered growth city is really quick and also committed. and it will be a huge challenge in order to condense this new spike and violence. the $30.00 bond bugger thought i'd been able to bring and sophisticated reverend from one it on. they are now trying to gain a fort gordon budget on. and it will be a huge challenge for the security apparatus in order to ensure that the sacrifices of the people of budget on do not go in. when all the pakistani taliban has been fighting the government in islamabad for more than 15 years, trying to impose its hard line interpretation of islam mc law. it has ties with afghanistan's taliban in june. last year the group announced a ceasefire with the government after talks broken by the afghan taliban, but in november it ended the cease fire accusing the military of increasing attacks

on its members. since then, the group has expanded its offensive, ambushing police and security patrols. it wants the government to release its members from prison and reduce military presence in former tribal areas. ah, or for more on there some now joins by our guest, soul of whom are in islamabad. empty. our school is the executive director of the center for research and security studies and independent thinktank javin. all right, man is parliamentary correspondent for pakistan's daily english language use paper . the nation and ma shives id is a founder and senior fellow at tab, dab and advisory firm that focuses on public policy. a warm welcome to you all. thank you very much for joining us on inside story, empty as gall. if i can start with you, i know you've lost a family member, your cousin who was a police officer impish, our in this attack, a heartfelt condolences the suicide bomber. as we heard our correspondence sais

struck a mosque frequented by police in a heavily guarded area of per shower. was there a security failure in your view end? if there was who was responsible for the security failure? i think this certainly was a bit security failure. and um, also the question about the suicide bumper, the police officials are dealing with the entire episode. i still not sure whether it was just one suicide bomber all by himself. or was there any big exclusive planted somewhere? because the impact of the way the, the ceiling or the roof caved in awe does not speak off of suicide jacket. her having been exploded. it's impact usually is, does not spread to the concrete in our, in a sense that up. and we were told that the pillars,

the concrete columns alpha of the roof came down as the ab because of the impact of the detonation. and this is worse than cause these nearly, i would say more than 100 debt. so it's a big, tough questions. big suspicions allegations, all pointing towards a security labs as to how it happened. it still being investigated much as idle. ah, correspondent mentioned that they were intelligence reports, intelligence agencies issued an alert on january 21st bagley saying that an attack was likely to happen. impish. our, why were these intelligence reports not taken seriously? and who in your view is to blame for the security failure? i mean, let me, let me tackle the 1st one for the 2nd one 1st and that is who is to blame for the security failure? i think that without question, the responsibility for securing our freedom and the life bloods and the property of

boxes, citizens as the states, the islamist republic, because pakistan. i remember this is an atomic republic of pakistan that has already defeated the g. p. r between 20142016 pakistan and the bike sonny military and the intelligence services worked a hand in glove with civilian law enforcement and all of society kind of counter terrorism. and so a counter insurgency, bob pushed back against the ttp, that essentially ended the ttp. the fact that the oven balaban took over in gobble in 2021 is at least partly to blame for this resurgence, but principally that distracted the distraction of the pakistani military and the intelligent services away from securing the lives in livelihood. this rat taught with what sharon, what are they distracted by by domestic politics,

by trying to manage the discourse by by trying to make sure that only what they approve is sang and sanctioned is what finds a space in the newspapers and on television by determining who the prime minister is in 2018, the military decided that they wanted a prime minister that they could work with. they got one, and then they got sick of him and then they got rid of him in early 2022. so i think went and a military that is very good at killing terrorists. that is very good at clearing and holding territory that belongs to the people of pakistan. even when it's so good at it when it allows itself to be distracted by domestic politics. then the result is what we saw in the shower yesterday. javin our man in islamabad. do you agree with that? is the pakistani state, the pakistani military air to blame as that much i says, for the complacency and, and for the lapse in security. well,

for last 2 decades, we have seen there is a lack of clarity. we have seen parallel misery operations on there. and also, at the same time, we have seen that f b stocks are also going going on in some of the areas it has been confusion in this fight against terrorism. we have seen this situation, different government policies. we have seen they have in stock, but they collapse our ministry. we have seen that ration to call the 8. i think i am talk about opperation back in the news operation and writing the job and 14 abbreviation. but now it is bit difficult. right?

but what i found are, to what extent javi to all the political tensions that we've seen in the last year in pakistan, you know, the ouster from a prime minister, iran con, in a no confidential protest. to what extent are those political tensions to blame for all the security failures we've seen in the past few months? we were expecting from under the bon to clear the pot to play the rule. ah, ah, but we have not seen much it. ah, you consider to rule in it. oh, well intelligence bureau operations are going gone. we have seen b r a are making dinner for some easter and see what it says. and is facilitator operations are under me actually? no. and now they're as they're on michael lee has mentioned domestic quantities is

a messy issue. okay. all of me and blair's are on the same beach. okay. interesting . let me come to you m t as and i wish i had talked about the afghan taliban. and the fact that that could have been that is perhaps a factor in the rise of attacks in pakistan by the pakistani taliban, that they feel emboldened now that the government of the well, the leadership in afghanistan is the taliban that they feel emboldened. interesting, low. interestingly though, with this attack, the afghan taliban to one of their officials, so hail, shaheen have condemned, or the attack impish. our saying that places of worship has their sanctity in their religion. what do you make of this? and the fact that the pakistani taliban itself has tried to distance itself from the attack ah, what, what is going on here? and what's the relationship between the p t t and the afghan taliban?

what is a very complex sub issue, but let me say that the is the relationship between the afghan and about signing taliban is very symbiotic that bullets consider themselves as of each other's comrades and the box on a thought. yvonne have vowed allegiance to the afghan taliban till when they tried to distance themselves from the box on it. i live on. it doesn't hold any water. secondly, it nearly 1800 prisoners had fled the jails of of gun his dawn when the taliban returned to power. in august 2021, many of them were either t t p r i s k or al qaeda leaders. yes to dad has a considerably contributed to the search in widens. however, we must underline that by gast, on, is facing a sort of proxy terrorism. it has been facing this proxy terrorism for more than

a decade. it under different franchises, you know, you may, there may be a different name, but your objective is the same and that is to prick the state of pakistan to create a sense of instability in this country to project pakistan as an unstable to debtor stricken country. and this is, i would say being extended, it driven, man, i'm saying good proxy terrorism. this is being externally driven and i had, and i hope, oh, well, i would a name. but there are, there is no method to this madness that we see in this country. these couple of a few 1000 people cannot really even imagine to capture the state of pakistan, the where the i been claiming they have been issuing denials in many cases, but these denials steadily or water. and i think this is a pretty unusual conflict that pakistan finds yourself and regardless whether the

army, the military mix a him, also having broken the box. but i don't think we have broken their backs. this is a continuous fight that we shall have to fight until we have is all the number of issues that are connected on china that are connected. china, us rivalry as well as american india. i relationship and bug hassan's relations with india, so called lobby sal, massaro, are they external factors at play here? you think as in tasmania and talk to us about the rise in insurgency in pakistan. what is behind this and, and why are security forces specifically being targeted? well, i think it, there is no question that pakistan is the target of many different adversaries that seek to undermine and damage the pakistani project. this is so this is a fact of life for buckets danny's that we've dealt with since the founding of the country in 1947. as some viewers worked all when others wouldn't buy this done was

split into 2 in 1971. pakistan has been the victim of for perhaps the most sustained wave of terrorism really anywhere since 2001 since the u. s. mission to free of honest on of the taliban began in october 2001 and was back. as none has done all this back on is also can currently be tarred and feathered as being too soft on the dollar bon and being incapable. what i alluded to earlier is that the, but i've always been resorts and were showers that, that the pakistani government, the government in islamabad directly supported the afghan taliban in their i. insurgency back in afghanistan, directly supported them in asking the government there and to international forces . i. so i think that those are accusations that you know, sort of only hold water to the extent that the buckets danis since day one have

argued that the only way the issues honestly would be resolved would be around the table. that was the box money position in bond in 2001. and it was the consistent sustain position of boxes on across a military dictator. an elected government of coalition partners, a government of only one party than a government of their direct adversary. no matter who has been in power and buckets on the box on is that the same thing? you will have to have a conversation with the taliban in order to resolve the issues in an honest dom. unfortunately, that advice wasn't he did, but that doesn't absolve barkus dawn of its responsibility of protecting pakistani citizens and lives. so yes, there are boxes, bonding adversaries, not just india, but other countries as well that seek to take advantage of instability, economic crises, political crises, there, there has been policy terrorism and buckets done right since 947. what the argument however, needs to be focused on is the box on the stake capable of fighting this and what it

is proven between 20142016 in particular is that is absolutely capable of defending this country. a protecting park on the lives of re reasserting the rebel. but when you look at current, the current situation in pakistan, and i'm going to put this question to job aid. you've got to kaufman today, which is having to deal with multiple issues and economic crisis. and energy crisis is the pakistani government in its state today capable of fighting this insurgency? well, it is a challenging task. you can say there are darting right now. nation is somebody's session is going on and i believe they will discuss about it about attack and be show or what i would say that and statement will not serve the real

and please this is not going to be that this is opposition. less parliament government should images the someone on pocket conference. they should discuss this issue. they should make a strategy to deal with this manners. and also i would say, i would mentioned yet. that opposition allusion can see iran con betty in so they should also party spirit in this part of your confidence to jock out as did you to me that is in need of unity to deal with this issue. it is right now, are we going to for anything. now you've got in the, in the aftermath of this attack, because as you know, iran con, has been very much opposed to this government has been calling for elections in pakistan. are we going to see a bit of more of unity now in the aftermath of this attack or not mean political

player, not on the same page. we are seeing that in the ga bar, you can see the fees processing fees actually meant you can see that the militants in the any trade in park is done and the unstructured. now. now it is difficult to find to find these details. but our defense minister as intent to move to a ration military operation would be the auction in and, and you suture. okay, ah, m t, as can the pakistani government, i'll put the same question to you as i did to javin, can the pakistani government, which is to day having to deal with a multitude of crises and an economic crisis, or an energy crisis as well as waiting for a bailout from the i. m f. candidate old. so take on and win this war against the pakistani taliban or his pakistan going to know the same fate as of gown,

his son and be one day ruled by the taliban. well, certainly a box on is not going to take the afghanistan now wrote as far as um, terrorism, this concerned. but unfortunately, pakistan's politicians as well as the military leadership as a whole, have not arisen to the strategic level that is required to fight the multiple crises that this country has been facing. the military has been wanting to refund the country. it has been wanting to take the country out of economic crises, but it refuses also to disengage from political management. so that is the dilemma that up august armies have phrased. the military is very good at fighting terrorism at to fighting. also criminals as it has demonstrated. but obviously when it gets into this destruction, what moshef, it's as sad, the destruction that distraction basically than undermines all the commitments,

all the vows that the military gives itself of helping by august on move out of economic, social and political prices. so that it, unless it really disengages from the man political discourse and let's the forces of political forces as well as of forces of economy a, handled up a project itself. it will be very difficult up for august on to grapple with decent crisis. all right, michelle, your thoughts about those, you've said that the military in pakistan that the government and the politicians hot distracted what are going to be the political consequences, elvis attacking your view. there. those have said that this could be used perhaps as an excuse to delay the elections, which are scheduled for later this year. what are your thoughts on this? look, i think the focus of the conversation needs to be, are on the victims of this attack and how this is going to be prevented in the

future. but frankly, if you look at the history of how terrorism has been fought and pakistan, politicians have had a very marginal role. and the reason for that is that the entire national security conversation in pakistan is entirely and completely dominated by the military and intelligence services. the fact of the matter is that until the military learns how to take orders from elected leaders and exit cute those orders to the fullest without believing that they are any better than politicians. any less corrupt than politicians any more competent than politicians. pakistan is going to continue to struggle. it's going to be very good at doing things like beating the ttp like it did in 2014 and 16 and that it. and then it is invariably going to let the jack back out of the box because the cycle of getting back into political management,

the allure of that, and the habit of that the culture that's been established in this country is extremely powerful. we have many other problems in pakistan that contribute to this . we have a calcified series of dinosaurs, both politically, in the bureaucracy and in the public discourse that dominate the conversation in a country with the median age of $23.00, a cut b, that's bursting with youthful energy and entrepreneurial spirit and creativity. but one whose creativity and entrepreneurial spirit is being, is being stuffed and to top it off, a culture of fear is emanating. so because these kinds of terrorist attacks are allowed. so any immediate, michelle, how do you protect this population? how do you ensure that such attacks don't happen again and, and, you know, how do you bring about security in the immediate well, in the immediate run, there's no option other than robust counter terrorism operations. there was in june of last year, there was

a lot of conversation about potentially making concessions to the ttp and st. people like like in the us, like java like myself all around the country. we weren't the only ones. lots and lots of backus donnie's who were very patriotic, who loved their religion, who are extremely nationalist. they all used in unison said that we have to be insane to be considering even considering the concession of any kind of suspension of the constitution, the concession of any kind of suspension of the rights of individual pakistani, his groups of pakistani is it. but the fact that these things were considered, and the fact that those conversations did not have the approval of parliament were not discussed on television shows, were not written about an op eds, but simply were conceived and discussed big. but people in the military thought it was a good idea, that is the kind of thing that this country is going to have to for ever shut down and never revisit. if it does, it,

we will continue it. today's the ttp. tomorrow it'll be another alphabet soup concoction, but anybody that that allows the constitution of pakistan and our democracy to be undermined. opens the door for terrors. all right, david, i'm gonna get you to tell me what you think the media action should be in order to, to prevent an attack, such as the one we saw in p shower from happening again. how do we protect the pakistani population? well, i would say that human and military, you can see that really pre my to us as is a problem, our purple had to deal with this terrorism. now the issue is that our party study government should review the national action plan. they have our medicaid operation when we talk about the ration of vision as a job. so that a bit as ration a military operation was successful now,

and we agree, it is sunny. goldman should revisit this national action plan. it will, it will prove it to you to be empty as you have the last word. javi talked about the us. there are, if the security situation were to further deteriorating pakistan, would the u. s. and pakistan, join forces you think, or to address these a failures and are, you know, is that likely to happen any time soon? well, i hope not because the, the past 20 years had been flight traumatic go for the entire box on the nation. just because of this, sir. a relationship between the u. s. the student, so corporate strategic partnership. so one would hope that the u. s. once again does into extended arm of cooperation. i think the army is a robust enough to deal with these issues, but the most critical important issue is the empowerment of civilian law enforcement agencies. even in this case that this tragic incident,

we have seen that the police are was under kind of complacency just because in critical matters the provincial police forces are not given the kind of autonomy that they need. and how did, in addition to that, now we really need to be on the alert all the time it, we cannot re land, we cannot order our guards in the situation that bugs on fire injured self and it is a continuous constant struggle. thank you so much shellman for a very interesting discussion. thank your entire school machine id, javiar rama and thank you so much and thank you for watching this edition of inside story. you can always watch this program again any time by visiting our site at al jazeera dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. he can of course, also join the conversation on twitter. i handle is at ha, inside story, from me fully back table and the whole team here in doha. thanks for watching. bye

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