all this area hot as well for places like nigeria, the heat continues, but the way to where they can be found most in more southern areas. heavy falls to comfort botswana and east in areas of south africa by thursday. ah. debating the issues of the day, the 5 largest polluters of the world are in india. jump into the street, they made their money on call. they made their money on field convincing those folks know we need to go. green is very, very difficult, giving all of voice we chose to live because we wanted to escape war and violence. when you humanize this narrative, you allow people to really understand the reality and break down misconceptions. the street on al jazeera stop plundering africa's result says the message from pope francis as he visits 2 of the continents war torn countries. what impact will his visit have on these states?

and what future does catholicism have in africa? this is inside story. ah welcome to the program on the whole robin, the pope's visit to the democratic republic of congo comes as it struggles to contain worsening violence. eastern congo has suffered unrest for years, but fighting has intensified on displayed to half a 1000000 people since the resurgence of the m 23 armed group. the pontiff will go to south saddam, where civil war and conflict between rival ethnic groups is taking its toll on civilians. it highlights the instability of regional peace and how it is affecting citizens. the pope's visits aim to highlight this, but does he have the answers? malcolm web begins are coverage, is the 1st time since 1983 that have come to visit democratic republic of congo.

the country and africa with the largest number of followers of the roman catholic church. about half of congress, nearly 100000000 people members fronted with you to visit in the middle of last year, but he had some problems with his knee. so the trip was type phone, the initial plan included a stop in eastern congo. so escalating conflicts that resulted in not being dropped from the program here in the capital can shatter. he's spoken about the forthcoming election which is due to be held at the end of this year. he said, it must be free, fair and credible when he'll so pointed a finger at the west for what he said was a poisonous greed for congos, vast mineral wealth. he said with fueling congo, come malcolm web for inside story. now the catholic church has significant influence in the d. r. c. were about half of the population identify as roman

catholic is also critical of the countries politics. in 2016, the church was at the center of protests against the then president of capella, he was forced to renounce a 3rd term in 2018 deployed. observe as to monitor the presidential election saying he wanted to ensure credible results. critics accused the church of meddling in congress. politics in 2020 peg, francis net president, felix tissue katie to improve relations. and now the head of the roman catholic church is in can schanzer ahead of elections this coming december. the well for this i'm joined by all guy thinkin schanzer is christopher lam. he is usually based in ryan. he's the correspondent for the weekly catholic newspaper, the tablet and pennsylvania usa is massimo forgive lee, a church historian and professor of theology and religious studies at villanova. university. i'm in chicago is stan illo,

a research professor of catholic and african studies at depaul university. very well. welcome to all of you on inside story and thank you for your time. christopher can just begin with. you can sha, serene faith, is an incredibly important part of life for those that believe in a, in a higher spiritual guide. what does the vatican hope than to achieve from the pope's arrival in the d. r. c. and, and later on in the week in south to dawn, well, you say faith is very important to people in the country republic of congo, about half of 90000000 population all catholics. and the pope is here to, i think festival support them in the, the mission of the church in this country. he's calling for peace because these countries, but the country republic of congo and south donna dean, were need lacerated by the civil wars that are ongoing. the pipes and very strong

the exploitation is going on in africa. so i think it's really both a trip to support the, the churches in these countries and also to call for peace and to try and bring peace where there's clearly been terrible civil wars and both countries. indeed, it will get into the intricacies of all of those difficulties. those countries, as we continue without chat, must have again in pennsylvania. i'm sure theologians across will. specially catholic theologians and analysts will be closely watching the pope's visits into these countries. and what he has to say will reverberate amongst the catholic church. it will reverberate because those isn't right now is going through a very delicate process called the process with a process of consultation, all both catholics through and thanks to their bishops locally on the major issues that are now and the center of the date of catholics on women in the church, on gender,

on the car for weeks and so on. and so some of these questions happen to be divisive. we think of our season also between the western world and some african church leaders and, and also many african conflicts. and so this is a less visible issue, especially because of the emphasis is given by preferences to the social economic situation of the congo and of africa. but this is something that i believe in the background. let's bring it in a stand a low in chicago. this particular pope has made it his point to highlight the unfairness of the global south and he's focused on africa a great deal through his papacy in various addresses to the public. the d. r. c and south saddam might well be happy about this, but i suppose africa generally will be happy to see the pope. oh definitely. i mean

you can already see from the enthusiasm of the people in there. how much does that mean to our people come in as it is in the post called the moment you remember you're in the. ready that many people predicted that there will be taken dead bodies of the africa. many people they didn't want to go is too dangerous to go. the bay, just like the continuing my vision of africa though they spoke, is break in the cycle of my vision by believing in the continent of africa. and i think that our people are so happy that the pope is done in the gaze of the world last march of this continent that has so much potential that often is it marginalized big. my di met

walter and in global ality. look about maxima here in pennsylvania because this visit was, well, plan does, most people visits. ah, but the recent conflict that we've been hearing about and seeing the east of the country has certainly changed the tone of what he's been saying. how does this impact on you might say the public at large and also the catholic diaspora who's watching paps to see whether the co, the pope can make a difference. i believe the catholic church and the papacy and its implemented car has made a difference already in the, in the most recent years. you know, straight off congo because that's remember the previous paper visits happened under the dictatorship. and so now that it has been a complicated democratic transition, but that is a difference. so device again is always very well informed on what happens on the

ground as one of the best diplomacy is in the world. and so i think that the strip as be modified by what's happening in some area. but i do not think that this has been a surprise for, for those where plan this trip which are usually very willing for me and a big diplomats. and so i, i don't think this will modify the core message over francis, which is what we have heard yesterday, ill already doing the 1st math cars full time. just bring you in here because obviously civilians certainly the public in the d r. c and south today will look the guidance from that spiritual leader as he arrives. but again, spiritual leaders like the paper ways don't really want to or try not to interact and interfere in the politics of a region or a country. but this pope is very vocal about things that you know, touch a nerve,

don't they, with politicians. and he's, he's not being backward and coming forward when it comes to the issues of the d. c . writes and of course the carpets, the country, both as a head of state and as the leader of the catholic church. and so in his role as head of state 100 gauges with the leaders of the country. and he address them yesterday with a powerful message calling to the end of the exploitation of africa. and then as the leader of the church today, when about emphasizing the, what the church can do for pete about saying that that can be no justification violence. anyone who, who is a calling himself a christian, he said, an engaging and violence must lay down there. um, so he has that jewel rolled. he can utilize on the paper visits. of course,

he doesn't have specific policy proposals that he wants to see implemented. he comes as a person of faith and he comes to try and change the hearts and minds of people. that's the main resources he has his disposal. but you can see today there's a 1000000 people turning out for a mass. saudis, obviously huge self power influence, spiritual influence to the, to seek, see and wants to deploy. and of course, the catholic church and the public of congress has been very involved in trying to shift free and fair elections transition to democracy. and when he goes to south sit down, we're going to see similar soft power influence when he goes with the canterbury to try and the moderate, the church has gotten to try and get the warring leaders to agree to peace. so i think that's how we approach these things. okay, well let me just bring in stand in chicago because is this where there is a slight problem, certainly with the catholic church and that the, the pontiff,

as we've just heard, you know, has this jewel role. he's the head of catholic church, he's also a head of state. and yet we have his senior bishops and clergy in a country like the d. r. c to being very open in being involved in politics. you know, we put that in inverted commas, overseeing elections, making sure that they all witnesses pressurising, a former president to relinquish a breaking with tradition of the constitution. that's all history. it does if create a problem within the catholic church where the pope feels uncomfortable with the way his clergy are behaving in as a say politics and inverted comments in the d r c. i don't think so. you must understand that. but fries, this is for decentralized vision, is one of the grid as reforming that i will stay in time. that is that local

b sharp and not simply the beat up is we're talking about the piano of the people. though he's not a clerical, clerical, please. someone who just want to remain on the level of what be shot in what pre lane though in for a tele to t, one of his key documents about social transformation. and he emphasizes this aspect of korea different tiny t. now we've been to get the brougham bonds, so society muscle in society drive a by was violent light vision of a t and on me to get that operate in a country like d. r. a. see that as we know, is a country that is potentially read california, the largest economy in the world. so they both is going not to impose better,

right. i live in the cries of the people and to rise the agency off the people, especially the ordinary for people my exist. i really know america. people who are staying outside into paraphrase, they're not always seen as so it is about meeting the shop. then the judge lead, as he's also meet the young people concentrate, the interested i'll talk about the mineral wealth and the people who meet. i want to get back to my scholarly here, because obviously, you know, as stan isla has just said, you know, he wants to try to bring peace to a region that so traumatized and listen to the people of their woes. but this is a holistic approach, not just the d r c, but also it's neighbors. and i wonder, is not involved in this paypal visit around about 40 percent of rwandans. all catholics, massimo has, has the vatican mr. trick by not involving rwanda as part of their itinerary,

because then that is where the main crux of the, of the, the problem lies at the moment in the region is that this relationship between the d. c and rwanda, and the proxies that are fighting and east of the country. that is certainly true. and this is something that some members of the, of the clergy and some missionaries in congo have spoken about openly when a pope travels. and when a pope does a huge job as, as pastor all of the diversely catholic church, even a trip abroad, a, he has to balance 2 elements which is on the one side, the prophetic message apiece. and just these reconciliation and thinking truth to power and on the other side, the other element, imbalance, ease, ease, diplomacy. so here what chris lamp was saying is very important that the pool of

travels as a religious leader, the leader of the catholic church, but also is as a head of state. and so all these elements arminian carefully considered when these beaches are drafted, when they are deliver birth, the people, the po francis meets or what he says. and what he doesn't say. one final thing is so easy, easy cause important to pay attention to what a pope doesn't say and these are, are silences that are usually are picked up by both the listeners. and so we should expect a correlational line from a pope will travel in one country against a neighboring country, especially when there are inter catholic issues. the air by this is certainly something that has not been missed by those were organized this trip. and also by

those who are falling preferences, there actually, it is a prophecy. air and, and it's a diplomacy at the same time in a very delicate balance. it is a delicate balance, isn't it, christopher? because obviously, you know, he knows what the problems are. you know, a congo has some of what the wells richest deposits of diamonds, gold, copper, cobalt and tonsil and lithium. your international players want those resources add to the mix, and insurgency across borders. you know, skirmish and fight that's ongoing and has been ongoing for decades. why does the pope start in trying to reconcile or try to help reconcile these various disparate groups? oh, yes, very complicated, political situation. you know what i've been struck by so far and the trip is that the pope has not held back in identifying the problem with the injustice visiting, see in the, in the country, which she says are, you know, he doesn't name names,

but he does say clearly that they are all outside interests who all fueling conflict through greed, through desire to control. and he used the phrase and economic colonialism which he says is facing people. so he is able to speak out very clearly and prophetically said, and he is able to lay out the problems, but as he does have to keep to diplomatic channels, not going to condemn individuals. but it was interesting, yes, that you mentioned under the president of democratic over the congo in his speech to the pope named rwanda as fueling the conflict in the eastern part of the home. and the pope then responded by saying that she had forgotten genocide had been getting on in the congo. so there are ways in which to,

to make points without necessarily laying out a specific common nations of individual son. he le, let's just talk about the fact that you know that the paper and the congress president, felix, katie, may have a different take on how to deal with the conflict at the moment in the east. but the pope is in town. the president present as the katie knows that were his words. at any podium as he welcomes the pope, will get a lot of air time globally. how much pressure does that put on? do you think on groups like the n 23 and the government in kigali because they're obviously watching very carefully what is happening and what is being said? i think is the anonymous pressure. and just to go back to what massimo was saying, the pope has also invited betia from rwanda and burundi. and indeed the grid legs area, though he's meeting with these bishop because as you know,

because of the church in africa indeed is a well connected. if you like a well oiled missionary. so there is an important movement to resolve this problem. because interestingly, both countries have and majority catholic. now i think there is no much pressure already being brought by the catholic bishop of congo. thank or the association of the conference call, go on the current president. and so he's already feeling the pressure and well, like every or that, every other politician he's trying to you that load, you know, but i think that will frank, this is focus prophetically on what he thinks about the problem. and that is consistent with his message or anamosa for sure. as those are,

the political leader must take responsibility. the political leaders in africa that is a big responsibility bar. the record that we see around because congo is offering, not simply because the pat, but also be the president and the to president of google. and wonder must come to the dialogue table. that's what it's asking them to practice the africa spiritual tradition of going to and i mean they have to do this for the sake of the, of our people that are dying every day because of the self blessed conflict between 2 never and there. while the states and the people who are deep historical cause i, i just want to bring in that because you've been noting in agreement, i just like to have your take on what simon said in chicago. right. i mean, i, i just wanted to mention that there's a number of pressure on what's going on in congo on complex leaders. but as

a side show, this is happening also in italy and in europe because there has been the in the last few days in the coverage of the pope and, and of about again in italy. a series of articles by prominent commentators lamenting that the pope is the voting too much attention to africa and to the south . the name is year and yet forgot in europe. this is very interesting because these shows are how disrupt the in a good sense. po frances is being for the catholic culture of white man in europe. and so he, you, you see that there are pressures that are, are very evident they are all on the ground by there are other pressures are behind the scenes that are among thing against francis m was seen to attentive to

the periphery is over the world. this is a key element. the tensions are on this bond if any, you should say disruptive because that feeds into my next question for chris, for lambing kinshasa because, and i'm quoting hair, that the paper saying hands off the democratic republic of congo, hans of africa, stock choke it, choked choking africa it's not a mind to be stripped or a terrain to be plundered and it turns of the disruptive element of, of the pope he's basically highlighting, is neat the rich west or the developed countries. and that companies who to use or how are using and happy use congo and its resources to build up their own financial wealth respectively in their companies and in their countries. and that focus is, must be very uncomfortable. yes, absolutely. and francis from right from the word go, is pontifical, has had a radical social message. and part of that message is that the po, once the church,

to go to what is called the peripheries. i am and to take the message of the gospel out all for a master was mentioning, what can have the criticism of the pope in europe, away from the say, the traditional heartlands of catholic power and go out to those countries which are suffering to speak prophetically and to speak truth to power, and it is striking, being here in can chat with the pope. when you compare the reception, the pope has gotten what he's saying, what he's talking about here. with the things about the recent weeks is that a series of disgruntled former officials lamenting the thought they lost their job . they couldn't get certain of african apartments. these things seem those things in the class can seem like a planet to what's happening in contrast and you look at the numbers turning out and you look at the, the, what the church is doing in health care and education. he's busy, and actually you think this is, this is where the church is both now to day and the church at the future. i mean,

you know, the majority of the population in congo are under 24. huge number of catholic. this is the future of catholicism that we're seeing, and we are witnessing and has a shift in the, in the power button poses in the churches in places such as a democrat, congo, unsubsidized some about some you coming near the end of the program. so just some quick questions, hey, i mean the catholic church as, as christopher mentioned, is becoming more and more relevant to a younger and younger population. the pope himself thinks that the future of the catholic church is in africa. what's your general impression about the generational divide? between young people in the faith and the older generation that have seen maybe 2 or 3 popes. yes, i think there's a huge divide. i mean, africa has also entered the digital world. and the challenge today, i think, is whether africans can take advantage. that is africa colleagues,

advantage of this openness or is showing 2 of africa to view africa, i avoid. and then for a people that have been held in this old form of catholicism around being i forgot to be sharp, who are very comfortable. celebrate in mass in latin, the one to restore the past imaginary glory of catholicism in africa. and so even in congo, there are new churches emerging. you know, it leaves that day. these are new churches that are probably, or even probably a 4th of the visit of the many young i leaving the traditional eurocentric edition not only are back in the middle, the mainline churches and finding home in the band. it costs on the bus route in

africa. and then africa, india initiative increased the i think there is a great divide, bo fries, this is trying to break the divide by creating the freedom that we didn't have as africans in the church on. now. ready to really speak our own voices and bring out forgotten jonesy though. reinventing catholicism in africa. study. thank you very much. you're just very quickly maxima, the final word. what you heard the legacy of this trip will be it's an important trip because it's a glimpse into the future, which is now called global policies or world christ. which will look significantly different from what he has been. the euro centric. why to male dominated church until a few years ago, but we shall see what does happen,

what the legacy of the district will be in the coming days at all of my guess. thank you. chris for landing control semester for yearly in pennsylvania, and stan isla in chicago. thanks for joining us on this edition of inside story. and thank you for watching as well. you can see the program again anytime by visiting our website at algebra, dot com and full further discussion gateway facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter handle that is at ha, inside story for me. the whole rahman hope of the team here. thank you for your time and your company. the aah! along with

every year in china, an estimated $80000.00 children are abducted by one of their perils. one or one east follow some mothers desperately trying to re unite with their children on al jazeera ah, under silent stalls. they once prosperous fishing village sinks beneath the mud, parliamentary elections ignite, few survival, re that will determine the future of this defeated and politically divided community. a microcosm reflecting the plight of a nation witness venezuela. a sinking revolution on a jessina february on al jazeera, rhinos and tigers,

in the full oats to the brink of extinction. one o one is discovered how their fourteen's have been turned around. a year on from russia's evasion of ukraine. jazeera looks at this impact and asks where events might lead from here. rigorous debate, unflinching question. up front muslim until cut through the headline to challenge conventional wisdom. nigerians vote in what's likely to be the most closely contested election in the country's history. from those that wielded to those who confronted people. and paula investigate the youth and abusive power around the world. february on al jazeera. ah ah.