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tv   The Bottom Line  Al Jazeera  February 4, 2023 3:00pm-3:31pm AST

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or brown's skins. the big picture traces the economic disparities and institutional racism that is seen united kingdom fail it. citizens, britons, true colors, part one on al jazeera ah, al jazeera with and i, the i'm norrick island dough harmonies, the top stories on al jazeera people are processing on the streets of pasha in
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northern and pakistan. cooling on authorities to take action against attacks from armed groups. well, the 100 people were killed in the city after a suicide bombing in a mosque on monday. i sent beg, has more from the shallow. they thought that this is the was the thing of the past, but now it has come back to haunt them after that suicide bomber blew himself up in the bus clinic over 100 people. but people who have been holding on the authorities to do more. but also this is a popular uprising are back in 2014. i think the book is donny probably want to talk to military school. with over $140.00 children killed, people from the villages stood up and says that we started up again with what that did with dogs of funny, funny about of the money in the to repeat that they sold back. now one of the main check with the russian defense ministry says $63.00 of its service. men have been released by ukraine. keith says 116 ukrainians have also been allowed to return home. moscow
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has some of those freed work in a sense to category united arab emirates mediated. the dale st bestcopy has more from keith. the leaders here in cuba certainly celebrating the return of a 116 ukrainians back to ukraine as, as, as a cause for celebration. now, since the beginning of the conflict, there's been about an estimated at least $35.00 prisoners swaps just like this. most of them smaller in number, this is definitely one of the largest prisoner exchanges between the 2 sides. since the conflict began since the russian invasion last year. at least 13 palestinians have been injured in the latest raid in the occupied west bank is ready forces talks at the act back shop, a refugee camp. the nearby city of jericho has been closed off since last week after a shooting and the legal israeli settlement. at least 18 palestinians have been
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arrested since the operation began. beijing as calling for calm as a giant chinese balloon float over the united states. china says it's a civilian weather craft, but secretary of state antony blinkin says that its presence is an irresponsible acts. the head of the roman catholic church has met christian leaders in south sudan. hope frances is on a historic 3 day visit, alongside the leaders of the anglican church and the church of scotland. later on saturday, he sat to meet people affected by the conflict. and before his visit to south to damp hope, frances spent 3 days in democratic republic of congo, eastern african leaders are set to meet him. burgundy on saturday to east to discuss an escalation of fighting between the congolese army and m. 23 rebels in the past. week malcolm webb has more from a camp on the outskirts of goma. president paul could go away from rwanda has arrived. president uri mas, 70, from uganda, has arrived, other ethos,
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east african leaders already there. felix to security, the president of congo, is on his way and it says to security guard. mm hm. a 70 were considered to be the key players in this conflict. m. 23 is widely understood to be backed by neighboring rwanda. uganda's been accused of backing them to, although both countries deny it. previous sir, talks in international agreements including a, an agreement made in luanda last year, didn't hold up a since those previous rounds of dialogue or m. 23 has continued its advance people in trying to has capital a protesting against the cost of a parade marking independence day. $550000.00 of public funds is being used for the military event in colombo. shanker is in the middle of the worst economic crisis in its history. a jury in the u. s. has fantastic billionaire ilan must did not defraud investors with tweets in 2018. the verdict was reached after less than 2
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hours of deliberation following a 3 week trial. i do not take blasters hit northeast in the united states and canada with fierce winds, pushing temperatures down into the negative double digits. authorities in the states of new york and new england issued warnings on friday. those are your headlines. stay with us. bottom line is next. ah . hi, i'm steve clemens and i have a question after the ukraine war, who's getting stronger, the western world or the rest of the world. let's get to the bottom line. ah, no one disputes that the united states will remain one of the world's leading powers far into the future. but it's also obvious that power is shifting all over
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the globe, and america's grip has really slipped in some places. it has the biggest military, but there's anees domestically with the cost of involvement in far away conflicts. meanwhile, china's influence is rising throughout asia africa and the middle east with high levels of american military, $8.00 funding the ukraine war, while also dealing with high inflation and mounting debt is america's global leadership. increasingly fragile. has the argument for western liberalism lost its allure, especially as nationalism and populism spread throughout the west? and is the rest of the we're looking for alternatives to american leadership. today we're talking with key shore ma bonnie singapore, former ambassador to the united nations, a former president of the un security council and author of has china won the chinese challenge to american primacy. kishor it is a real pleasure to have you on today and i want to tell our audience that i view each one of my be bonnie is one of the great strategic thinkers of our time. i largely agree with you or framing that china is rising. us sees that rise
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coming, but i haven't seen america kind of shift very much in terms of how it manages his engagement. you know, i sort of, i've often been a fan of, you know, take this moment, bring nations like india and brazil, and other great, you know, international stakeholders more into the power institutions in the world in the united states would get credit for that in a way and would help kind of create institutions that fit that the world that's emerging as opposed to the one we had 70 years ago. do you see any prospect of the united states getting ahead of this? so it just doesn't look like the resentful, egotistic, you know, former dominant power. that's just, you know, irritated with china's right. well, i think the fundamental problem with the united states strategy and then keep that me speaking henry kissinger told me 2018 without the searching. michael. the has
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china one united that's a comprehensive long term strategy for managing the return of china. and actually what is trying to do is kneecap china hoping that china will collapse and frankly are yes, is your rhetoric the possible that china could collapse. but i think the current strategy of trying to spot china's rights is not going to work. therefore, why is this strategy would be to continue the policy of engaging china integrating china into the world order and then constraining either why is a strategy that's a win for the united states in many ways. and frankly, a win for what many of the neighbors of china and i can, stephanie we asia completely puzzled by what the
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united states is trying to do. i mean, but, you know, is it play example all in one se aisha to cut off? it's links to china that will be suicidal. i mean, just a new one. let us that this thing in the yes, 2000 united states trade with a 10 asked young countries. what a $135000000000.00. and china was only what the united states was, you know, more than 3 g and a half and larger. but today, even the united states trade with it can us young countries has gone up to $300000000000.00. china street with us in has gone from $40800000000000.00. an increase of 20 times. you come us countryside, southeast asia to cut off your trading links and other things with china be suicidal. right? and china is going to be with us for the next 1000 years. and this is not just your
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salvage, as you mentioned, brazil, brazil is to graphically much through the united states that it is the china, brazil. trade trade with china is 3 times trade with the united states of america. so these other new realities that the united states should adjust to in a more intelligent and the more full session. and to me, it's actually quite surprising how badly this should easy. think tanks in washington d. c. f. perform because washington dc spend small on strategy in things that any other country in the world. and yet it produces the worst strategic thinking that's quite striking. so sure. how do you view the ukraine conflict right now? so many people i've had them on my show, andre cartoon off and others have looked at the ukraine conflict is sort of the ongoing collapse of the old soviet union. and america,
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very comfortable with the old contours of us, russia, competition and kind of old style stuff. so you've got essentially a proxy conflict now going on the ukraine. so, you know, with ukraine supported by european and american support, a dollars military assistance, you know, fighting the russian invasion while china is sort of over here. you know, the big power that's rising. how do you sort of see the u. s. is the u. s. and is the u. s. trapped in sort of an old mindset not realizing that the resources and whatnot that are going into that are basically giving china, you know, an easier pass in the world than otherwise would be. well, i mean, let me emphasize the very outset the russian. envision you praise completely the girl on acceptable had asked to be condemned and we should certainly try to read it. that's all. but as it seemed time to be completely can
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do so. when was break out like this day, the slack job political incompetence and pay the european union and the members of the european union should step back and be flat on a what is the do to have this wall remedial wall break out in this doorstep? and my simple answer is that they didn't listen to the advice of george kennan. and by the way, for affairs had just come up with another article pointing out very clearly that we back in the mid 19 ninety's almost 30 years ago. josh shannon emphasize that europe and united states should alienate russia. she tried to integrate russia in the new order. and i can tell you frankly, the fundamental difference between what the europeans have done with the
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neighborhood and what we in us young in south musician in done. the naval is the exact opposite. the european union has not been inclusive of the larger region has not been consumed. russia has basically kept russia whereas by contrasts, assay, and tries to integrate all its neighbors and bring them into their trading economic arrangement. and so for example, the world's largest retrieve agreement was launched here in east asia. add the english it, they were young. and it brings together the 10 us young countries, china, japan, south korea of taylor, new zealand. and what's interesting about this arrangement, you are for strong airlines and united states, china, japan, japan, south korea, filling the zealand together with china and the us young. so we include every body
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and, and i think the european union is making some huge strategic mistakes by not thinking and calculating what kind of russia who they want to have for their doorstep. 10 to 20 years from now. a defeated, angry, humiliated russia. you want that for the next 100 years on russia, it's all you compromise and make peace. and i would say the wiser thing to do is to compromise and mix. let me ask you um about a dividing line that many writers are writing about like an apple. bam. another said the, the dividing line in the world, it matters now is that between democracies and autocracies, and that democracies have been put, pushed back on their, their heels. and that this is a real struggle in the world. she wrote a piece in the atlantic saying, the bad guys are winning,
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that do you see that as an appropriate, metaphoric frame? or do you see blind spots in the way some writers and some strategic thinkers are looking at what's really driving conflict in the world today. i would certainly say to applebaum, what you mentioned, that yes, she shouldn't listen to the democracy. so the one the was number one, democracy is india. 1.31.4000000000 people. second largest democracy is united states of america. that largest democracy is indonesia. so what are you wiser for united states to listen to the 2 other large democracies, india and indonesia. and i asked your star barely simple question. why don't the other world large democracy?
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susie says contests. we think democracy and act up. in fact, frankie, you know, even though i can be very honest, india and indonesia are very concerned about china's rights. the know, the endo, a stronger and more to china. but do they see china as a threat? linden democracy? absolutely not. best indonesia, as the china subtract the militia democracy? absolutely not. and it's a perfect example. when you talk about was democracy fees. you're using the black and white lenses of the cold war in a new world that these monte monte sit as they show an increasing need that for months. until the black and white perspective as clock, the american mind is actually
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a big danger to the united states because there is far more complex. and most of the countries in the world, i can assure you want to be friends with the united states. but they also want to be friends with china. they also want to trade with russia and they want to be able to do business in the middle. so you can see therefore it's a flexible and quite a completely different kinds of games from washington dc. that's that we haven't come yet. my city is a friend of the united states saying you can win this game, but is no longer the simple check this game that you are playing, you know, we do simple sites, very complex game of chess. closer to the chinese game will go that henry kissinger speaks about in this book when china he asked you about china in its wine spots. we
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recently interviewed chin gong who's now been made foreign minister of china and with his ascension, we've seen china engage in kind of a charm offensive. he's been in africa going around the continent showing the priority of africa ah, to chinese foreign foreign a interest. also, we've seen the wolf war, your diplomats get withdrawn. our from a lot of post in china seems to be trying to engage in different, different terms. but i'm interested when you see the big shift on coven policy. you see the ongoing, ah controversies over taiwan and whether speaker kevin mccarthy might go to taiwan on that. what do you see as possibly some of china's potential missteps given it's wise? what could it get wrong? well, i mean, like the hampton emphasize that to china is not a perfect country, and certainly is leaders know that they're not perfect. and, and china like any country makes mistakes. i mean, that's made mistakes with yon in the year 2012 when they tried to force cambodia
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not to have any reference on south china sea. the scan document. clearly this made mistakes in the way it has tried to exit from it's 0. moving all a c and the sudden, rom was a shock to every want. yes, china has makes mistakes and he will continue to make mistakes. but if you step back and objected me look at the bigger picture and us yourself, a very simple question. you know, the world has the bach 8 b and people that say you take out the 1400000000 people from china, pick up the 300000000 bass. that's the lives of watts 6300000000 people in the rest of them will not get if you assume that the rest of the world tries intelligent societies left by intelligent need to know where to interest.
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ask yourself a simple question. why more countries that being up their links with chain rather than trying to lock china in the way that even that is space is to why is that? so these 2 could be something wrong with then you take, for example, the balance and go in. you should write united states launcher or osha's global campaign warning. countries don't get stuck in that trap. diplomacy don't joined the belgian initiative. you know what happened at a 193 countries in the. ready world hunger or $140.00 countries joined the initiative. i mean some good in india did in australia, didn't. japan didn't, but the majority did all 10000 vision countries did so. ready so you're dealing therefore good china, that these are far more formidable,
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far most strategic, and far more intelligent packets. anything that the united states has experience and is such a pity that wench and gun was in washington dc. and when, when washington d. c had a chair to get to know and go get to know all chinese salt. when washington do, do you see do shut chip. it was to be a mistake. the 1st rule, we know of it. no dine, no dining enemy bite. the 1000 battles when the 1000 and all i can say today is that most and i just don't the spend time. let me ask you about trade because you mentioned trade. and one of the things that i found remarkable was the american decision to withdraw from something it had sat up. i
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know it had a big impact on singapore, which was the trans pacific partnership, t p, p. and i'm interested in whether they are ongoing after effects to that today. so as we've seen, the biden white house come out with an indo pacific strategy and in the pacific economic strategy. is anyone in our c on taking that seriously? or do you think that the rupture out of the g p p just did too much damage? and it's going to take a new t p p to come in to some met american economic engagement in the region. well, i can tell you that we can ask young countries one to engage united states of america. i mean, let me emphasize that and they're still huge reservoirs of goodwill to what's the united states within vish. i mean, going back to the days of the war bad, optically, the country with which united states for one of the small bits of getting is now
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it's the best friend. and many americans are even aware of that. so it is their last, the rest of the united states and anything that the united brings people say, for example, in the pacific economic framework, i think i would say yes, let's do it. but let's also be realistic. i mean, i'm best to join better yogi, which is tre. your infancy, odo. 09. and that's why burner obama prison or obama. 3 weiss, she don't in, in, in, in, in putting forward really shifted of the transfer civic partnership. and we all that, to embrace it even though you know, united states that very high standards for joining the t p. b. so in the united states as and the donor, cham walked away from the t p. it was literally shooting itself in the foot. and as
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you know, the paradoxical an ironical conclusion of the t p chapter is that the united states is not even thinking of drew rejoining the r c p t p, that the successor t p a china has applied for june to the fact that china's fight will join shows again, that chinese thinking long term and strategically about rather your game it's and i think is very important for united states to sit down and do some basic calculations. what would happen to american influence, not just in saudi's issue in all of east asia, and in the rest of the world, if it is no longer a major trading partner. most countries in the world is inevitably, are the dynamic of us china to go back to your earlier statements. one where it's a 0 sum game, where if they're gaining america is
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a losing with america is gaining. china must be seen to be losing. and does that not, and as up in the box of, in an ever inevitable train wreck, they need to go further. and here is, you know, the hands of the biden. them destruction are tied by the fact that there seems to be an overwhelming consensus in washington dc that the united states should only be top china and not engage in any kind of when we incorporate, as you suggested. so this is why i run something called the ation piece program. and just this week we have issued a new article saying that maybe we should, i see an should ors when, when, when cooperation i see an u. s. in china. and this will give a free saving. we are of the united states because united states will say, okay, we're not saying yes china. but when, when cooperation we say yes of rented last year with our friends in our san one
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will win win population. maybe we'll do it for them. so when i seattle. ready so i think what do united states to remain engaged in our region? and frankly, there some areas like climate change, like normal financial crisis, where frankly, it is in the interests of the united states to cooperate with china and not the shun. all cooperation with let me ask you finally about india about which you have written, written recently. and said india could be a 3rd major poll of power in the world for problem solving. it reminds me of bob's alex admonition to china that you can rise, and you can become a responsible global stakeholder in solving the problems of the world. this india need that same sort of statement is india able to rise out of its own self interest and begin looking at issues like climate or other issues and use its power in a way that's, that's globally stabilizing,
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but also moves its interest over forward. well, i mean, there's absolutely no doubt that india rise to be, is unstoppable. i mean, in know, you know, it's angus medicine, us from the one to the 820, the 2 largest, he called him use of the world war always china and india. so the return of china and india perfect, the natural and it is going to happen. and frankly, the world will do it at a time when us, china tensions are going to increase the over the next 10 years. the world would be happy to see it totally independent that all that creates a balancing role and tries to in some ways not these 2 big elephants to avoid that also on transportation. and as you know, india is aspiring to become a member of the un security council and which i think india should become want to
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be. but yesterday, because remember, when you went to get down to the best for india to build up his credentials as you become upon them. but the un security council is to show that it is completely independent. the united states and china. and you can play completely independent balancing all and say things to both power that lots of countries want to say. but i'll try to see perfectly well we will leave that there. thank you so much, ambassador kesha, my bonnie distinguish fellow at the age research institute and singapore. thank you so much for being with us today. laquisha. so what's the bottom line? very soon? china is going to have the world's largest economy and a very powerful, sophisticated military. it's an uncomfortable spot for america, which isn't used to sharing power and fears at china's interest and objectives. don't always align with those of washington, even if neither side, once conflict, nor seeks it. they are going to be inevitable collisions and consequences for the
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world as china test the lines of power with the u. s. and the u. s. finds its national ego, offended by chinese power to stay in the game and avoid a tragic collision with china. the west just can't sit back and hold the power it has in the world. it needs to reinvent the terms of its engagement. it has to do some global deal making with china. and it's to find ways to bring other power centers like india into the world's power institutions. like the un security council. then america will read, vibrant, engaged, less resentful and less likely to have a head on collision with china. and that's the bottom line. ah, just the 1970s was a pivotal time for cinema in theater, in the middle east and north africa. back in the 2nd of a 2 part series out there, a world to meet the creative risk takers who broke new ground for censorship
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and developed their own voice in the seventy's in the arab world stage and screen on al jazeera. the great thing about being amused presenter network lifetime 0 is that it's a truly global operation. if you will, child is here. you're seeing news from parts of the world that other networks just don't cover. you're getting a truly global perspective. we have an extensive network of bureaus around the world. we have many, many colors, forms in all corners of the globe. if you really want to know what's happening in the world right now, you need to be watching al jazeera blue. and again, i'm norrick island, doha. these are the top stories on al jazeera people protesting and the straight to
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