rather even further south. so best teresa gets to night in the rain on monday. in tons in here, i think the rainbow starts get a little bit heavier. the most part is much dryer in tropical africa in the south. it's stormy. ah, county state controlled information. moscow is one of the day of the case in the world and has an incredible facial recognition technology. how does the narrative improve public opinion? no walker asked, how is citizen jim? listen, we framing the video spread like wildfire. they denied the prayer in ukraine, the listening post dissects the media. we don't cover the news, we cover the way the news is cover a balloon over us guys triggers a diplomatic storm. beijing denies washington's accusations of spying. as mistrust

deepens between the world. 2 biggest powers. what lies ahead for the us china relationship. this is insightfully. ah, ah. hello and welcome to the program. i'm dead he navigate on china and the united states have been at odds for years now. a trade war. tensions on taiwan, the south china sea and russia's invasion of ukraine. the fault lines have widened as washington scrambles to counter beijing's raising economic and strategic influence. but this week's appearance of a giant chinese balloon over the skies of north america is threatening to further destabilize that relationship. washington says it's being used to spy in response and cancel the plan visit by beijing to beijing by sector state antony blinkin.

china maintains that it's a civilian weather balloon that was blown off course. the pentagon says a 2nd balloon has now been spotted over latin america. we'll get to our guests in a moment's 1st. this update from our white house correspondent kimberly hawk it. this thing is up in the sky. china's surveillance balloon is triggering a diplomatic rao. that has prompted us secretary of state antelope lincoln to postpone his we can trip to beijing is an irresponsible act. and that the p r c. decision to take this action on the my plan visit is detrimental to the subset of discussions that we were prepared to have. the u. s. is accusing china, a violating international law. the balloon is still hovering over the skies of the united states. it was 1st tracked over the aleutian islands near alaska and travelled through western canada and into the u. s. state of montana where it was spotted near

a military installation home to some of america's nuclear missiles. i have no idea what the thing is. it seems so brazen and just so insane to me that that any one would even attempt to just push a balloon over the sky. the chinese foreign ministry acknowledged ownership of the balloon and expressed regret for the incident, but said it was merely collecting weather data, not intelligently. the pentagon has its doubts. still, it says the balloon is not a threat to any one on the ground or planes since it's flying well above commercial air traffic. but there are questions about why the pentagon is allowing the chinese surveillance balloon to linger, looking at the potential for debris and the impact on civilians on the ground or property damage right now, as i mentioned we, we assessed that it is not pose

a risk to people on the ground as it currently is traversing the continental united states. that hasn't satisfied biden's critics and congress who believe the u. s. needs to take further action to punish china can't reward the ccp for this kind of fly. violation of our sovereignty by pretending everything his businesses normal in a grip and grin session was. she's in pain as if it was happening. would have been a terrible look for us diplomacy. the ccp will continue to push the envelope until we push back. this isn't the 1st time the china has lives just by balloon over the united states. the pentagon says that in recent years, surveillance balloons have been spotted over guam and hawaii. but in the case of this current balloon, the pentagon won't say whether or not it eventually will be shot down, only that it's expected to drift over the united states for the next couple of days . kimberly help get al jazeera, the white house. ah, but some bring in our guest,

joining us from washington as high no claim. cuz a retired us army colonel and a senior associate at the center for strategic and international studies. in beijing, victor gao, vice president of the center for china and globalization over in london, we have zeno leoni, who's a lecture and defend studies at kings college london. welcome to you all. thanks so much for your time with us. on inside story, xena leoni to you 1st, do you believe that this was an accident? a weather balloon thrown off course? is the chinese say, or was it deliberate a spy balloon, as the americans allege to retirement? but the most important thing is that 1st of all, the chinese apologize for that. i'm not sure that this was a mistake, but also these balloon ease biggest 3 boxes. and so it seems eventually more a be a clancy. append that's fine over the u. s. territory rather than

a traditional section. but anyway, i mean you for the united states and the font, if it's sewing bog down to determine whether this is a press, these was enough in the spine over the us. they should do anything. they can to bring it down and find out whether it was functional or not. instead it sounds like you're going to let it fly. you're the u. s. standard to eat for another 2 days. so i think there should be more consistency on, on this point. ok, and on this point in particular, let's bring a high no clink. so the balloon was reportedly hovering over sensitive sites, including a field housing us nuclear missile. the biden and administration has decided not to shoot it down, but allow it to linger. how do you explain that?

quite frankly, i can't explain it. if i were still in government, i would be advising senior leaders to bring down the balloon. if they clear violation of american sovereignty and it should be brought down. let me just state as well. that doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be shut down. there are other ways of being able to bring the balloon safely down. so my policy recommendations would be to bring the balloon down. right, and i know the defense official said that the u. s. has quote options to deal with this balloon. if the risk it poses changes, what are the options you think that are being weighed by the pentagon and state departments at this point? or what are the options that should be weight? so i'm confident that our military has variety of technical means of being able to bring the balloon down. i think now is a calculation of ensuring that any potential risk is mitigated. as stated

by the pentagon spokesperson, the worst the military is concerned about debris causing harm to civilians or damage to property. that's certainly something that needs to be considered. that being said, regardless of the circumstances, this is a violation of american sovereignty, american airspace and cannot be tolerated and it must be brought down. victor got from beijing, the fact that the chinese issued a statement of regret is that unusual to, you know, i think it's government is just being honest and being straightforward. trying to set a stake. it's the balloon getting out of control because of the strong wind blowing off cause. and the way i think channels have the right thing. and i acknowledge that this is a chinese bloom and acknowledge that this is about the skies in the united

states. and the china is urging com and the cold in all the united states be realistic and i hope the united states will. ready call with china in getting this episode unfortunate as it is behind us. and then a good deal sibling will a resume. his very book with china and the 2 countries can really sit down and talk about what's more important is about whoa piece and different. do you think that they have a man? it is a way said however, victor, i mean the fact that they issued a statement for granted doesn't really seem like a chinese government thing to do, especially to kind of apologize, right? well, i think journals just been pragmatic. her china acknowledge this is the china as a balloon. it is in the united states about in the sky. and china declare that it is a weather balloon. so don't be too much agitated about it. and china and the united

states need to figure out a way to put this whole episode behind us. one, on the other hand, allow me to emphasize for it. it also illustrates that the world is only well and the whole atmosphere is only one hatnus fear. and if china launches a balloon, it may soon get to the united states, and this is the fact we are facing with. therefore, the philosophical point is more important than the balloon. and let's bring it in a separate glass on the high note and that the united states get along with it. i know, go ahead. i know you want to respond or besides philosophy, let's talk about reality. within the last 12 months, chinese military has consistently unprofessionally and dangerously intercept that override your foreign military aircraft. and your national aerospace, including some involved in the enforcement of united nations sanctions that the people's republic of china actually voted for. they've shot a laser on one of their ships and australian aircraft,

also an international airspace. so, and you're reporting even documented that there are other balloons that are currently in flight. and apparently there been other lumens that have entered american airspace over guam and hawaii. so this is not an isolated, this is not just a mistake, and i think trying to portray it as just an unfortunate incident. tries to cover up them, align intent again of the chinese communist rosie. let's bring in zeno from london on that point because, you know, using balloons a spy platform goes back. in fact, to the early days of the cold war and china uses them the united states uses them as well. i suppose what's different here is that the chinese didn't think that they get caught right. why? because how would they would they think that they were going to get cold? i mean, people could see these, these bone. so if these are not 10 of them i,

i find it's very, very bizarre, especially taken into account the china. although from a point of view in the, remain behind the united states, in many ways they're really trying to invest. and to get to together, we thought that technology, when it comes to data, just type of power and also, you know, position on military power. so eventually are very clumsy and going back to, to contribute to the discussion between my colleagues. a few seconds ago, i think on the one in the chinese elise immediately they need to be extremely careful at the time of the child us china relations, then in trouble manual people's actions. on the other hand, the us needs to be careful not to release these thoughtful statement until it has

direct evidence. and we've seen something similar when you almost when you go when you exit from the us was argue that china will sending way to russia. it turns out to be a big deal at this moment. so we need more evidence before releasing the sort of statements. and these absolutely important relationship needs to be paying on a more manageable, pragmatic level interaction. we're going to get into the relationship in a moment and what the future holds. in fact, for the relationship. but victor ago, there are reports, i'm sure you've heard that reportedly a 2nd balloon has been spotted over latin america. can you tell us any more information on that, and what do you think china is trying to accomplish now, having reportedly to balloons in the hemisphere? first of all, it is true that the chinese government has already acknowledged a room in the sky. united states is china's blue. there is no

indication or evidence that the, the other below the 2nd below is also a china's balloon. or at least the chinese government has not knowledge that. therefore, i think we need to call a spade a spade and focus on the balloon in the united states. and i hope both can on the united states, need to learn how to engage with each other if there is or not, or to that like this. and the 2 countries can focus on really what matters and to get along with each other and to maintain peace and stability between the 2 countries. this is very rare occasion when i hear the united states, i feel sagan calling saying, telling the whole world that the united states sovereignty and territorial integrity have been threatened. don't forget, china has been declaring that its sovereignty and territorial integrity have been violated. and threatened again and again and again. right. but are you the us offer

and he has not been threatened with this balloon. i mean, certainly a balloon over us guys does threaten the u. s. sovereignty does not. what i mean is that is very rare to hear the property does the secretary of state of the united states declaring that the u. s. sovereignty and taro, integrity have being threatened, but please keep in mind, china has declared on many, many, many occasions that china sovereignty and territorial integrity have been threatened again and again and again by the united states. therefore, both china and the united states need to learn how not to constitute any such threat directly all on directly, indirectly, intentionally or unintentionally. so that piece can prevail, but you watch. ready and beijing, rather then these 2 great countries been distracted into confrontational rivalry. i know what do you make of the timing of all of this just after the u. s. for example,

reinvigorated its military alliance with the philippines. and right before the secretary of state schedule trip to beijing, which of course has now been postponed. well, 1st of all, many of china's neighbors have in fact, over the years, complains about chinese, for instance, on their territory. don't tegra de sovereignty. india, for instance, south korea, japan and others. so this is not just an incident can bind to the united states. i think that the reinvigoration of u. s. and philipino relationship plus the steps that the japanese are taking to enhance their own defense and many, many other countries, including even the natal general secretary of traveling to the region recently in the statements of the nato strategic concept. have point to the fact

that china, his neighbors and others around the world are concerned about the aggressive intent activities of the ccp and the p l. a. that being said, it's been reported that president biden, and general secretary, she had a productive meeting during the g 20 in bali and secretary austin. and mr. bens way had a productive meeting in cambodia during the a. d. m. m plus meetings last year and that there was some potential momentum or some productive pos. i will tell you that within the defense circles, the u. s. defense department has been trying very, very diligent, even to diligently i may say almost acting as an art and suitor with the yellow counterparts to have subs conversations. and as the chinese that have been rebuffing those at every opportunity. right?

although being the, when you these apologies, but these issues that you mentioned, the us expanding its military presence in the philippines, the u. s. and japanese integrating their command structure. so from the chinese perspective, these can be seen as provocative. so do you think that there could be any link between these particular moves by the united states and the incidence of the balloon high? no. if so, it would be a clumsy reaction. frankly, of what again, i would say that what the united states, as partners and allies in the region and globally are doing, are a reaction to what the chinese have been doing over the last many years. and fringing on sovereignty of many countries as well as and, you know, continuing the pervasive military pressure on taiwan and unprecedented levels. ok, let's bring and zeno. i know you want to respond to this not to

say that they really needed to speculate about the timing of the balloon. there have been just some discussions around the fact that she's being was under pressure from nationally school season is about blink. and these is on the defensive, so february, so eventually we might see a relationship between the balloon and, and also a process of the sort of demand is really what you want to think. broadly speaking, chinese vertical we what now it's become clear, the project of a global national. this is now sort of the agenda, and that's why you went to the republic of korea. he went to probably have to send the project global natal to make the point that what happened in europe in terms of security challenges in matters also for asia and also to make deploying them both

the loses and dual credit. and then are there any time in the countries in asia we've been fly me before taking that, those sort of affirmative action china. i've said that since when we run dean, they see these the sort of development and 3rd comment. and so this really brings us back to a sort of cold war dynamic. right, victor, we also heard from the biden administration, this was in 2022. in fact, unveiling the defense strategy saying china is the greatest danger to american security and calling for an urgent concerted efforts to build military capabilities to, to the serve aging and the decades to come. does this threaten china? first of all, if there is any irony in the world, nothing can be great that these are the 2 by the us present divine to it. when the united states called china, right, you'll need to ask one very question,

how and what does china throughout the united states all, after all the united states is the strongest military power in the world? why should the united states be afraid of via china? does china occupy any age of land on foreign countries? absolutely loved. china has been peaceful for all these ideas and try not does not have any occupied the land. i know i'd like you to respond to what we just heard from victor and beijing, and also tell me how you see the relationship going forward between the united states and china. because a lot of people would describe it at an all time low. in fact. so i would respond with respect to the questions of territorial claims that china chair told most of the neighbors all you have to do is look at the child, south china sea rooms. but on the bilateral us china relationship,

it is definitely a very, very low point. i think coming out of cobit and looking at china's policies, the policy implementations are coney palsy drum limitations in places like hong kong. and it's very pervasive and oppressive daily military incursions into the taiwanese or defense identification zones and other activities globally. for instance, using economic coercion against countries all over the globe. there's a realization now not just washington, but in capital worldwide, that there needs to be a common understanding recognition, acknowledgement that the ccp is on the line force in the world. and now countries are starting to organize themselves, push back and get that understanding that economics is just one aspect of the

relationship. so you see greater tendencies all over the world to try to build a resilient approach to the relationship with china. united states is no different . i do not see things improving anytime soon. as you know, us air force general set in a memo recently that he thinks the u. s. would fight china in the next 2 years. i must say that with the pentagon. distance themselves from these remark saying they were not consistent with american military assessments, but this is one u. s. air force general had said, how would you assess the risk of war currently between the 2 countries is very concerning. then somebody so prominent release the sort of remarks he makes me seem that you know, they have some kind of direct information alluding to me to whole war.

on the other hand, i don't believe the statements about, you know, china, you know, when the time, when you say the china leading, they buy and they think this speculation we company why it isn't raising babies. why nothing bathing today. so we need to be more careful with beth, and he's very assuring that depends, but will say that those, those was the, prevents the defense department going back to the broader us trying relationship. i think if you're really concerned that we are the low calling, i agree with that, i will go to the story from perspective. we see the scene 1972 and so seems to me on a mild met and the fact that there would be a lot of ups and downs managed during the cold war managed rule economy corporation of the cold walls. and i think that the way forward will be

a sort of new type of cold war characterized by security breach shot on the one hand and continuing on british, on the other hand. but then will also be some deal of the counseling in china will be the capillaries over the strategic sector of the call me. and perhaps this might bring some stuff in the relationship because that the moment is because of many freed show that the moment, right. but just let me stick with you for one more. second here as you know, and president joe biden, at the time of his campaign, he campaigned on building a new approach to foreign policy and relations with china. but since then, what's changed really, between the 2 countries since president biden came into office with them by the policy as a very distinguishing feature, which is the ideal they've seen online. and we've seen these the launch of the

front of us lead mostly lots of brain walls and this is about the cost on the one. and i don't know whether the bible ministration. we'd be successful and basically recreating a new version of the lever. a loader, a more exclusive club, led by the united states, made of like minded democracies. i don't know whether they will see that but clearly disease a very clear property of foreign policy. brian very have the big question is with professional buy them, continue to pursue these sorts of agenda because they just realized that they need partners to china then calisha. ok. victor go. so given how wide the rift seems to be between the 2 countries and the fact that the blinking trip was happening in the 1st place, a lot of people said that's already positive. and i think you share that point of

view. so how much of a missed opportunity is it now that he'd have to postpone? it's unfortunate that going to is postponing a visit. however, i truly believe he will visit china because visiting china, engage with china with the united states is good. not only just one, china, it is good, absolutely about the states, and it is a good positive development for world peace and development. so, if it doesn't go to china, we all need you. and americans will also suffer the consequences. if china, the united states, do not engage with each other and if they do not eventually get along with each other, there will be no peace for mankind. so let's do the only responsible thing that is to promote peace and getting along the teacher of the united states. rather than that. crazy general can you believe it is not only a general, he's a commander, although ability false of the u. s. air force. how can every general in the united

states talk about the war between china, the united states, right? a war between china and the united states will reach out to us, you want to destroy home and say, okay, i'll have to leave it there. thank you so much for joining us. i know claim victor gallons, you know, the only we thank you for your time. thanks for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page dot facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. during the conversation on twitter handle is a inside story for myself and the whole team here in delphi. thanks for watching. bye bye for now. ah.

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