bitcoin block chain, crypto currency, disruptive technology, join with me and introducing the bill to outlaw crypto currency all the way to a fair financial system. because open source software, we can trade on money without banks or governments award winning filmmaker, thorsten hoffman looks at all sides of the complex crypto. crypto going look changed in the internet on now to sierra a balloon over us dies trigger is a diplomatic storm. phasing denies washington's accusations of spying, as mistrust deepens between the world, 2 biggest powers. what lies ahead for the us china relationship. this is insightfully. ah

hello and welcome to the program. i'm debbie you. navigate on china and the united states have been at odds for years now. a trade war, tensions on taiwan, the south china sea, and russia's invasion of ukraine. the fault lines have widened as washington scrambles to counter beijing's raising economic and strategic influence. but this week's appearance of a giant chinese balloon over the skies of north america is threatening to further destabilize that relationship. washington says it's being used to spy in response and cancel to plan visit by beijing to beijing by sector state antony blinkin. china maintains that it's a civilian weather balloon that was blown off course. the pentagon says a 2nd balloon has now been spotted over latin america will get tory guests in a moment's 1st. this update for my white house correspondent kimberly hawk it. this thing is up in the sky. china's surveillance balloon is triggering a diplomatic rao. that has prompted us secretary of state antelope lincoln to

postpone his we can trip to beijing is an irresponsible act. and that the p r c. decision to take the section on the my plan visit is detrimental to the subset of discussions that we were prepared to have. the u. s. is accusing china, a violating international law. the balloon is still hovering over the skies of the united states. it was 1st tracked over the aleutian islands near alaska and travelled through western canada and into the u. s. state of montana where it was spotted near a military installation home to some of america's nuclear missiles. i have no idea what the thing is. it seemed so brazen and just so insane to me that that any one would even attempt to just push a balloon over the sky. the chinese foreign ministry acknowledged ownership of the

balloon and expressed regret for the incident, but said it was merely collecting weather data, not intelligently. the pentagon has its doubts. still, it says the balloon is not a threat to any one on the ground or planes since it's flying well above commercial air traffic. but there are questions about why the pentagon is allowing the chinese surveillance balloon to linger, looking at the potential for debris and the impact on civilians on the ground or property damage right now, as i mentioned we, we assessed that it is not pose a risk to people on the ground as it currently is traversing the continental united states. that hasn't satisfied biden's critics and congress who believe the u. s. needs to take further action to punish china account reward. the ccp for this kind of fly violation of our sovereignty by pretending everything his business as normal in a grip and grin session was, she's in pain. as this was happening,

would have been a terrible look for you as diplomacy. the ccp will continue to push the envelope until we push back. this isn't the 1st time the china has lives just by balloon over the united states. the pentagon says that in recent years, surveillance balloons have been spotted over guam and hawaii. but in the case of this current balloon, the pentagon won't say whether or not it eventually will be shot down, only that it's expected to drift over the united states for the next couple of days . kimberly help get al jazeera, the white house. ah, let's, i'm bringing our guest joining us from washington as high. no claim. cuz a retired us army colonel and a senior associate at the center for strategic and international studies. in beijing, victor gao, vice president of the center for china and globalization over in london, we have zeno leoni, who's a lecture and defense studies at kings college london. welcome to you all. thanks

so much for your time with us. on inside story, xena leoni to you 1st. do you believe that this was an accident? a weather balloon thrown off course? is the chinese say, or was it deliberate a spy balloon? as the americans allege the term is the most important thing is that 1st of all, the chinese apologize for that. i'm not saying that this was a mistake, but also the balloon is biggest 3 boxes. and so it seems eventually more a be a clancy. append, that's fine over the u. s. territory rather than a traditional section. but anyway, i mean you, for the united states at this point it's going to determine whether this is a press. this was enough that spine over the u. s. territory,

they should do anything they can to bring it down and find out whether it was such an offense or no expense. it sounds like you're going to let it fly over the u. s. failure to be for another 2 days. so i think there should be more consistency on, on this point. ok. and on this point in particular, let's bring a high no clink. so the balloon was reportedly hovering over sensitive sites, including a field housing us nuclear missile. the by an administration has decided not to shoot it down, but allow it to linger. how do you explain that? quite frankly, i can't explain it. if i were still in government, i would be advising senior leaders to bring down the balloon. it's a clear violation of american sovereignty and it should be brought down. let me just state as well. that doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be shut down. there are other ways of being able to bring the balloon safely down. so my policy

recommendations would be to bring the balloon down. right, and i know the defense official said that the u. s. has quote options to deal with this balloon. if the risk it poses changes, what are the options you think that are being weighed by the pentagon and state departments at this point, or what are the options that should be wage? so i'm confident that our military has a variety of technical means of being able to bring the balloon down. i think now the calculation of ensuring that any potential risk is mitigated. as stated by the pentagon spokesperson, of course, the military is concerned about debris causing harm. to civilians or damage to property, that's certainly something that needs to be considered. that being said, regardless of the circumstances, this is a violation of american sovereignty,

american airspace and cannot be tolerated and it must be brought down. victor got from beijing, the fact that the chinese issued a statement of regret is that unusual to, you know, i think the child is government is just being honest and being straightforward. trying to set a service think it's the balloon getting out of control because of the strong weight growing is off cause and in this way i think channels have the right thing to acknowledge that this is a chinese bloom and acknowledge that this is about the skies in the united states and the china is urging com and the cold in all the united states be realistic. and i hope the united states will. ready go along with china in getting this episode unfortunate as it is behind us and then i'll say good, they'll say blinker will. ready a resume,

his very book with china and the 2 countries can really sit down and talk about what's more important is about whoa piece and different. do you think that they have a man? it is a violence situation. however, i mean, the fact that they issued a statement for granted doesn't really seem like a chinese government thing to do, especially to kind of apologize, right? well, i've seen journals just been pragmatic. her china acknowledge this is a, china's a balloon. it is in the united states about in the sky, and china declared that it is a weather balloon. so don't be too much agitated about it. and china and the united states need to figure out a way to put this whole episode behind us. one, on the other hand, allow me to emphasize for it. it also illustrates that the world is only well and the whole atmosphere is only one hatnus fear. and if china launches a balloon, it may soon get to the united states, and this is the fact we are facing with. therefore, the philosophical point is more important than the balloon. let's bring it in

a slightly on the i know the united states get along with it. i know. go ahead. i know you want to respond or besides philosophy. let's talk about reality. within the last 12 months, chinese military has consistently unprofessionally and dangerously intercept that arrived. you born military aircraft and your natural airspace, including some involved in the enforcement of united nations sanctions. people's republic of china actually voted for they've shot a laser on one of the ships and australian aircraft, also an international airspace. so, and you're reporting even documented that there are other balloons that are currently in flight. and apparently there been other lumens that have entered american airspace over guam and hawaii. so this is not an isolated. this is not just a mistake. and i think trying to portray it as just an unfortunate incident. tries

to cover up them, align intent again of the chinese communist rosie. let's bring in zeno from london on that point because you know, using balloons a spy platform goes back. in fact, to the early days of the cold war. and china uses them to the united states, uses them as well. i suppose what's different here is that the chinese didn't think that they get caught right. why? because how could they could they think that they were going to get cold? i mean, people could see these, these buttons, so if these are not 10 of them i, i find it's very, very bizarre. especially taking into account the china. although from a point of view in the, remain behind the united states. in many ways they're really trying to invest and to get to together, we thought that technology, when it comes to data,

just type of power and also, you know, traditional military power. so it's eventually a very clumsy and going back to, to contribute to the discussion between my colleagues. a few seconds ago, i think on the one in the chinese elise immediately they need to be extremely careful at the time of the child us china relations. then trouble if any people's actions. on the other hand, the us needs to be careful not to release these thoughtful statement until it has direct evidence. and we've seen something similar when you, when you go, when you exit from the us was army, the china will say, the way to russia, it turned out to be a big deal at this moment. so we need more evidence before releasing the sort of statements and this absolutely bar on the relationship needs to be that's gonna be

paying on a more manageable, pragmatic level interaction. we're going to get into the relationship in a moment and what the future holds. in fact, for the relationship of victor ago, there are reports, i'm sure you've heard that reportedly a 2nd balloon has been spotted over latin america. can you tell us any more information on that? and what do you think china is trying to accomplish now? having reportedly to balloons in the hemisphere. first of all, it is true that the chinese government has already acknowledged a room in the sky. united states is china's blue. there is no indication or evidence that the other below the 2nd below is also a china's balloon. or at least the chinese government has not knowledge that. therefore, i think we need to call a spade a spade and focus on the balloon in the united states. and i hope both can on the

united states, need to learn how to engage with each other if there is an hour or 2 that like this . and the 2 countries can focus on really what matters and to get along with each other and to maintain peace and stability between the 2 countries. this is very rare occasion when i hear the united states, i feel sagan calling saying, telling the whole world that the united states sovereignty and territorial integrity have been threatened. don't forget, china has been declaring that its sovereignty and territorial integrity have been violated. and threatened again and again and again. right. but are you the us conference he has not been threatened with this balloon? i mean, certainly a balloon over us guys does threaten the u. s. sovereignty does not. what i mean is that is very rare to hear the property does. the secretary of state of the united states declaring that the u. s. sovereignty and territorial integrity have being

threatened. but please keep in mind, china has declared on many, many, many occasions that china sovereignty and territorial integrity have been threatened again and again and again by the united states. therefore, both china and the united states need to learn how not to constitute any such threat directly all on directly, indirectly, intentionally or unintentionally. so that piece can prevail between watching. ready and beijing, rather than these 2 great countries being distracted into confrontational rivalry, i know what do you make of the timing of fall of this just after the u. s. for example, reinvigorated its military alliance with the philippines. and right before the secretary of state schedule trip to beijing, which of course has now been postponed. well, 1st of all, many of china's neighbors have in fact, over the years,

complains about chinese, for instance, on their territory. don't tegra de sovereignty. india, for instance, south korea, japan and others. so this is not just an incident confined to the united states. i think that the reinvigoration of u. s. and philipino relationship plus the steps that the japanese are taking to enhance their own defense and many, many other countries, including even the natal general secretary of traveling to the region recently in the statements of the nato strategic concept. at point to the fact that china's neighbors and others around the world are concerned about the aggressive intent activities of the ccp and the p l. a. that being said, it's been reported that president biden, the general secretary. she had a productive meeting during the g 20 in bali and secretary austin and mr. the fence

way at a productive meeting in cambodia during the a. d. m. m plus meetings last year and that there was some potential momentum or some productive. i will tell you that within the defense circles, the u. s. defense department has been trying very, very diligent, even to diligently i may say almost acting as an ardent suitor with the yellow counterparts to have subs conversations. and as the chinese that have been rebuffing those at every opportunity. right. all that being said, the, when you, these apologies, but these issues that you mentioned, the us expanding its military presence in the philippines, the u. s. and japanese integrating their command structure. so from the chinese perspective, these can be seen as provocative. so do you think that there could be any link between these particular moves by the united states on the incidence of the balloon

high? know if so, it would be a clumsy reaction. frankly, what i, again, i would say that what the united states, as partners now is in the region and globally are doing, are a reaction to what the chinese have been doing the last many years and fringing on sovereignty of many countries as well as. and, you know, continuing the pervasive military pressure on taiwan and unprecedented levels. ok, let's bring in zeno. i know you want to respond to this not to say that it really needed to speculate about the timing of the balloon. there have been just some discussions around the fact that she's being was under pressure from nationally school season is about blink and busiest on the expensive. so february,

so eventually we might see our relationship between the balloon and, and also a process of the sort of demand. really, what do you want to think? broadly speaking, chinese vertical we, what now is become clear, the project of a global national. this is now sort of the agenda, and that's why you went to the republic of korea. he went to probably have to send the project a little by little to make the polling there what happens in europe in terms of security challenges in math as also for asia and also to make deploying them both the loses and dual credit. and then are there any time in the countries the major we've been, fly me before taking that sort of a box of china. i've said that since wednesday when dean they see these the sort of development and 3rd comment. and so this really brings us back to

a sort of cold war dynamic. right, victor, we also heard from the biden administration, this was in 2022. in fact, unveiling the defense strategy saying china is the greatest danger to american security and calling for an urgent concerted efforts to build military capabilities to, to the survey sharing in the decades to come. does this threaten china? first of all, if there is any irony in the world, nothing can be great that these are the 2 by the us present divine to it. when the united states called china, right, you'll need to ask one very question, how and what does china throughout the united states all, after all the united states is the strongest military power of the world? why should be that? is they be afraid of via china? those china occupy any age of land or foreign countries. absolutely loved. china

has been peaceful for all these years and try not does not have any occupied the land. i know i'd like you to respond to what we just heard from victor and beijing, and also tell me how you see the relationship going forward between the united states and china because a lot of people would describe it at an all time low. in fact. so i would respond with respect to the questions of territorial claims. that china, tara told the neighbors all you have to do is look at the child, south china sea friends. but on the bilateral us china relationship, it is definitely a very, very low point. i think coming out of cobit and looking at china's policies, the policy implementations are coney palsy drum limitations in places like hong kong. and it's very pervasive and oppressive daily military

incursions into the taiwanese or defense identification zones and other activities globally. for instance, using economic coersion against countries all over the globe. there's a realization now not just washington, but in capital worldwide, that there needs to be a common understanding recognition involvement, that the ccp is on the line force in the world. and now countries are starting to organize themselves, wish back and get that understanding that economics is just one aspect of the relationship. so you see greater tendencies all over the world to try to build a resilient approach to the relationship with china. the united states is no different . i do not see things improving anytime soon. as you know, us air force general set in

a memo recently that he thinks the u. s. would fight china in the next 2 years. i must say that the pentagon distance themselves from these remark saying they were not consistent with american military assessments, but this is one u. s. air force general had said, how would you assess the risk of war currently between the 2 countries is very concerning. then somebody so wrong in release the sort of remarks he makes me seem that you know, they have some kind of direct information alluding to me to whole war. on the other hand, i don't believe the statements about, you know, china, you know, when the time, when you say the china leading, they buy and they think this speculation we company why it isn't raising babies. why nothing bathing today. so we need to be more careful with beth,

and he's very assuring that depends. i go and say that those, those was the, prevents the defense department going back to the broader us trying to relationship. i think if you're really concerned that we are the low calling, i agree with that, i will go to the story from perspective. we see the scene 1972. and so it seems to me on a mild met and the fact that there would be a lot of ups and downs managed during the cold war managed rule economic cooperation of the cold walls. and i think that the way forward will be a sort of new type of cold war characterized by security breach on, on the one hand and continuing economic british on the other hand. but then will also be some deal of the counseling in china will be the capillary over the

strategic sector of the call me and perhaps this might bring some stuff in the relationship because that the comics is because of make sure that the moment right . but just let me stick with you for one more. second here as you know, and president joe biden, at the time of his campaign, he campaigned on building a new approach to foreign policy and relations with china. but since then, what's changed really, between the 2 countries since president biden came into office, went by the boat involves b as a very distinguishing feature, which is the ideal they've seen online. and we've seen these the launch of the front of us lead mostly lots of brain walls. and this is about the of the cost on the $1.00. and i don't know whether the, by the ministration will be successful and basically recreating a new version of the load or a more exclusive club led by the united states made of like minded democracies. i

don't know whether they we fax either but clearly disease a very clear property of foreign policies. brian very have the big question is with professional buy them continue to pursue these sorts of agenda because they just realized that benny's partners to china then coalition. ok. victor go, so given how wide the rift seems to be between the 2 countries and the fact that the blinking trip was happening in the 1st place, a lot of people said that's already positive. and i think you share that point of view. so how much of a missed opportunity is it now that he'd have to postpone? it's unfortunate that brenda is postponing a visit. however, i believe he will be the china because the visiting china engage with china, where the, the state is good, not only just china, it is good, absolutely the stage and it is a good obviously,

of development world peace and development. so if it doesn't go to china, we all need you will and emerges will also suffer the consequences if china the united states do not engage with each other. and if they do not eventually get along with each other, there will be no peace for mankind. so let's do the only responsible thing that is to promote peace and getting a lot to teach out of the united states. rather than that. crazy general can you believe it is not only a general, he's a commander, although ability falls off the u. s. air force, how can every general in the united states talk about the war between china, the united states, right? a war between china and the united states will gather that you want to destroy home and say ok, we have to leave it there. thank you so much for joining us, final claim, victor gallon. xena leoni. we thank you for your time. thanks for watching. you can

see the program again any time by visiting our website, al jazeera dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page, starts facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. during the conversation on twitter handle is a inside story for myself and the whole team here. and thanks for watching bye bye for now. ah, i talked to al jazeera, we ask, but should they not be more over science perhaps of foundations like yours? we listen when it comes to diversification, we don't do it in order to beat,

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