across east side of the mediterranean, so a few showers clearing away from spain. lottie dry for portugal. ah, oil companies, the biggest companies in the world had a very deep understanding of the climate crisis before the rest of us. and yet they did not tell anyone else. that's where the crimes 40 years of denying their own scientific evidence. i thought that i could important them to change their business plan. this was very naive decisions that have plagued our future. it's just pure evil. i don't know what to say big oil's big lies on a just either syria is struggling to respond to the earthquakes disaster, but how much of that is down to politics. the regime in damascus insists that it should control aid and rescue efforts. but as it's on the international sanctions boycott, sprint that hamper

a breaching devastated areas. this is inside story. ah her welcome to the program. i'm adrian finnegan. they are the worst earthquakes to hit turkey and syria and decades. scenes of devastation have emerged on both sides of the border with thousands of people, dead rescue teams, a working round the clock to find survivors. humanitarian assistance is essential, particularly in northern syria. but our politics hindering the response. al jazeera is cateel lopez, hot ion reports. ah years of conflict and now earthquakes. the challenge of delivering aid to northern syria is now even tougher. i had oh

yeah, i knew i learned why in a way we had grown accustomed to war. but this earthquake happened. all of a sudden i wish we were very, very scared. we got frightened with years of conflict, but this was different. just horrific man. i own a gentleman that much of this region includes rebels held areas of badly affected by years of conflict. and separating politics from international aid is difficult it would be quite ironic, ah, if not even counterproductive for us to reach out to a government that has brutalized its people over the course of a dozen years. now. instead, we have humanitarian partners on the ground who can provide the type of assistance in the aftermath of these tragic earthquakes. resources are limited and rounds used by the united nations to transport aid from truck here to assyria have been disrupted. and this tuition here as handled, does being handled by the government. but as we know,

the governments capacity is very limited in terms of for rescue teams in terms of her equipments. still, many people are under durable and the government has very little capacity. humanitarian groups are calling for us sanctions to be temporarily lifter to ease the delivery of aide and encourage countries to help a message echoed by serious government. so even those countries who want to send you many tarion assistance, they cannot use the aeroplane cargo because of the sanctions. syrian president bashar on the son has been accused of withholding aid and services from rebels held areas to punish the opposition fight with a major response needed to cope with such a wide spread disaster. humanitarian groups are calling for politics to be set aside. both at home and abroad. patty,

allah bristled again for in saint story. ah, let's bring in our guests. for today's discussion from ankara were joined by am at cosette, his associate professor at hassan kali's uncle university and from brussels. we have i said i'd she. who is executive director of beta syria, that's a non governmental old organization that provides grants for development projects in syria and from norman, oklahoma, joshua landers, director of the center for middle east studies at the university of angelo home. a gentleman, welcome to you. while i'm at that start with you, syria, then as we heard says that it should control the delivery of aid into all of syria . it doesn't recognize the non governmental organizations working in the north northwest. is syria playing politics with aid her. to, to be honest, a van we are talking about syria, you know, at least

a big countries already. if you want it into 3 sections and different powers are controlling each section in the north eastern part, we have the peacock i, p p, k, k, p i v y p g, a courtesy blues area. and it, you know, at the center at damascus, it through our nipple and mediterranean area, we have the regime forces. and on the north western part, under the turkish influence, we have the opposition forces at a site in salvation government. so in each area they have different difficulties after the earthquake, but the most effective areas are especially under the regime control and under the salvation is citing salvation going in control because the losses concentrate in those those 2 regions. for example, under the northwestern part, under a salvation government, i think the debt to all of the people reach to more than 1280 and on the regime

control is 1250. so different administrations, different political powers make this creation a little bit more difficult, but this car to n, y may do it peg you paved tool, new political advances in the region for the unitary structure of the site in maybe for the future we will see. but the situation is cosmetic, and the 1st thing to be conducted by the international community and united nations should be to focus on the military and 8 in all the regions with n g o z and international organizations. all of them out of the region as odms, i'm sorry to interrupt you. how can you and do that if, if serious government though insists that all of the 8 to live to syria has to go through it for, for the regime part, there might be some difficulties, but i think for the opposition, but it will not be a problem because already there are international organizations,

they're working in that regions. and so i think the negotiations should be given as some i let say, where they should be concentrate on coming together and finding solutions. because today is not the day for political poverty class. today, the humans are a really a new day. they need the basic needs shelter because of the in the conditions. and there's a monetary and fooled lord or every kind of thing. and that should be the 1st thing that the all word should concentrate on that the political clash that demand, i said, does the syrian government, still a pariah and much of the international community. and under u. s. and e, u, the sanctions doesn't have any role to play in the distribution of aid to rebel held areas of the country. if it accepts offers of assistance. what measures could

or perhaps should be put into place to ensure that that aid reaches its intended recipients? well if i'm, if i miss, thank you for having me. if i may start very quickly by saying, but no matter what the syrian government say's that you, i am has a mandate to deliver humanitarian aid to the northwest. this area as the cross border solution was just renewed in january and has a mandate to do that until the end of june. so there is a clear mandate for the us to be able to do that with their own government. and so whatever ones what we really need though, at the moment, is not only equipment and material, but it's actually international rescue teams. and i here want to salute egyptian. so i've already sent the 1st international rescue team into jim dennis and d. i was under control of the position, but international rescue teams are needed. it all affected areas for that. there

might be a need to coordinate with the certain government. but i think the main after there would be this here in our bed questions, and they should be the in july of the international community, not the government in damascus. and through, sorry, i say international rescue teams can make their way into my little city, which are the most effective areas and measure in government control. now the challenge professor, as mentioned, is 4 areas under control of the salvation. so do go back into the particularities over the northwest, sorry. it's not really one area, 2 areas is greater lab that is under control of this elevation government, which is an h d. i sponsored government and the areas under direct control which are controlled by these julian, intra government that is from the to the position. so for our direct control,

it took us government aid is not really a problem, as we do not have to deal with terrorist organizations for lead. that is a challenge. we need it. we need immediate solutions for that because 2 of the largest cities and in the north west of se art and the province mainly hired him. those are the 2 most effected cities and the greater province. they can easily access through the bible, our cross bible, our crossing is the authorized crossing by the us mechanism. so everything is in place for an international response. now remains to be seen how we can allow for the international rescue teams to go and and for equipment to be there, as well as making, making sure that the road is in good shape to be as,

as of now i said that that back crossing is remains closed, doesn't it? to do to the damage to the infrastructure. the, the crossings are open. ok, good. the, the, the crossings open just to be the crossings open. there are small logistical challenges on the road from the hub to the border crossing because of the destruction around re handler, which is a bit to the north of the border cross. and it should be fully functional by the end of the day took a government has made bob's dilemma and border crossings agenda does for, for any of your major and 8. so at the moment we have 3 border crossings that are open. one is, has opperation all which is how i, which is the main un otherwise border crossing. but there are 2 generator border crossings that are fully functional, easily accessible. and these are above slammer and border crossing. just relentless,

90 percent of people in northern syria were already dependent upon humanitarian aid before this, quite a natural disaster on this scale could not have hit a more vulnerable population, not as we heard. it's difficult at the moment for a while, not a single route was, was open for aid, but as i sort of just told us, at least now that that one crossing is open. time is of the essence. people are dying. what should be done? a by whom, as our fellow humans suffer. surely now is the time to put politics aside, isn't it? it is a tend to put politics aside and this may offer a chance for some kind of boost and change your policy. you asked in the beginning of your thing about whether people are playing politics with this. and of course they are, you know, every one of these 3 areas that are controlled by different governments and different regimes are,

are playing politics with food in the united states. it's but very secure sanctions on syria. it's impossible to send money into loved ones, through banks, all of the bank codes, shift codes have been blocked. the united states controls all the serious oil and is trying to make sure that no one gets the serial. that means that machines can run and outside is doing the same thing with rebel controlled areas. he's, he, he wants to control what food gets to the rebels and, and it's the same with the rebels and the a coming to rebel area. so this is, it's time for politics to be put aside. and i think that the international community needs to rush aid in to all 3 of these on clothes, particularly the northwest rebel controlled area and assyrian area because lot of here a lot. oh, hi, my regents have been demonstrated by own my own in laws who live in a key area. numerous buildings around there has collapsed and now and that's true

for change throughout the region. so they need aid desperately. a joshua the u. s. s. has ruled out delivering a via the syrian government as we heard of the beginning of the program. us state department spokesman net price said it would be ironic if not even counter productive for us to reach out to a government that has brutalized its people over the course of a 1000 years now. is that the right attitude given the situation? how will that be? okay, well, how will the us get 8 to the us? it's not going to get hate into this area. you know, that they're going to get into the north, east and west, and that's fine. the point is that the international community america can sit aside on this, but the arab governments, we've seen egypt reach out, c, c has reached out to the syrian government. the steering government is going to be involved in this one way or the other 3. the red cross, the red cross is working within the syrian power steering government control part.

so is a red pression. those are 2 action agencies that can deliver aid. and can, you know if the united states can deliver aid to those agencies, then they don't have to go through the government directly. of course, the company is involved in delivering trucks and delivering aid. and the military is going and digging people out. the syrian government is not, is, is trying to respond to this courses. spotlight is on the government, can it be effective? and syrians are in despair because their government has been so ineffective. that the, the national budget of syria this year is about $3000000000.00. which is you know, the reconstruction of syria, it needs, needs tens of billions dollars, and the government is not in any shape way, shape capable of carrying out the aid that needs to be taken out. and that needs to be delivered in this area. we'll come back to this point in

a few minutes. joshua took yep. also, of course, badly affected by this real quick. it's understandably focused on it's on its own citizens right now, but to what extent does it hold the key to, to access to, to, to northern syria, even though the roads on, on both sides of the border at the moment, a very badly damaged actually it today or we have and i say, ready, we close connection with deep and temporary administration system. the more rest than a sites on the turkish implants. so a day or very a, let's say it connected to the touch administration system and they are working in cooperation with them. but just to give an idea, put out audience and diverse kits scenario in the earthquakes happened in the region only into camp 10 robins to support effected. and the area is about bigger

than 100000 square miles. it's got kilometers, so it's bigger than you'll ariel iceland. what? forties? hungaria. so like a who country. so it's white. it 1st day it was very difficult. who picks all the rules and other things, but today most of them are working. i and the rules will be connected and opened, as already mentioned it by our friend, from breast since at the gates are working and the toward one. 0, will be open, asian lighting till the end of today is all the 8 system will properly burg also. but in some regions we have seen, for example, and you've been out of that at b k. k is also ignoring this extraordinary restoration and a tech to the border to pass a byte motor runs rocket systems. so the terrorist organizations are using also nist a bet conditions as an opportunity for the attack. so these should be an apparent

it as well. and taken on the control of course, because the security forces are already concentrated on the rescue efforts. so this is difficult, but it's working, but so the international community can on something i don't have it yet and work, i'm sorry to interrupt. you say that that these areas should be taken under control, by whom of course, the security board to security forces in the region. but i ran the international rescue attempts to reach to the area. the actual security parcels can return to their actual works and they can concentrate on the security as well. because now the military and other security forces are concentrating on research on rescue sanitary scott renovations are using this as an opportunity to threatened it. a current security situation also to deteriorate it. so that's why i think more

research on rescue teams and other humanitarian. 8 material suits breached to the point as security forces that dad should the remain the security and maintain the security as val. i'm. if you use you say that that, that the various groups are taking advantage of the situation for their own ends. to what extent will the syrian government try to do the same and take advantage of the situation for its own ends? for sure, that debt in all the political parties it may try to use it about it is not very easy as well because a day already. damn. cells have a huge problems in their own area, isabel is so i don't think that they will try to use this as an opportunity to attack it la region and other places. but of course, it's a kind of ad, tentative or risk. it should be mitigated or, or some precautions should be taken an intent, don't eastern international community. it should focus on should not ignore,

as well as had brought effect with it. but the international sanctions on syria having people in the north west of the country before the disaster. so an international sanctions i and i have no impact on emergency response and he made serenade there, but a far reaching it options as well. as i said, 90 percent of people in northern syria were all ready dependent upon humanitarian aid before the earthquake. so that so the sanctions must have been having some impact upon what i was getting. i was attention have directed as professor professor lumber said on, on, ravages on financial transfers. and to enter the country because of the, the banking of fat. and the fact that we only last to use the wireless system which

is not capable and very difficult, very difficult and convoluted juice. so the, the big impact is on me, continues on the ability of peer to peer financial distributions, etc. so what financial international action but doing are basically they're increasing the costs of the human response. however, they're not preventing it. and i absolutely agree with this, but by the syrian government is absolutely inefficient, but not only inefficient. i would say also extremely corrupt and criminal. and the way they approach and all disasters that i've, that i've, you know, affect the area and also how they're approaching the earthquake, so that therefore we need international rescue teach. we cannot leave this to the of the different defacto authorities on the ground. we absolutely need an

international board, the initial mechanism, national rescue teams like to be on the ground in all areas of start. i wanted to ask you, who will coordinate the response to, to what extent will the reluctance of international access to deal with serious government and support non governmental organizations directly lead to a botched response. therefore, we need to create a coordination mechanism. how to do that. there are, there are different ways. one point was, the un, it was the un which are that was doing that for the nation. but unfortunately, as i mentioned, the hub has been completely heads. and therefore, we cannot rely on, on the hub, attempted to be able to, to call jim a, the, a for the, for the northwest or the country. now, sherry has appealed to the civil. so the protection mechanism within the turkey hasn't been to the same protection mechanism. so the eco d,

g echo can lead us if there is a political will within the european union to basically lead the coordination effort. the entry of international rescue has already people on the ground in damascus. and therefore, they can, they can, you know, take big, take the lead on that, and they're trustworthy from, from the different, you know, political powers and the different in the different areas of. otherwise, it can be left to cause the initial mechanism among syria jewels. and the different parts of that has happened before when there were, you know, forces displacements. but mason goes into hitler. for example, there was a coordination mechanism that was created for shelter to, to, to accept people in such a difference except for. and so there is a previous question where there has been for the initial mechanism that worked between this or in our best western j. from one side and government controlled area

and other and jose operating of the country, joshua, for years, the international community has finished its policies towards syria. to what extent could this tragedy do you think? be a capitalist now for change, for the world to take it a different approach to syria. it is time to change the we've seen in the arab world, the u. e. bahrain. now egypt has stepped forward. there's jordan has normalized relations with damascus and trying to influence the situation in syria. and i think saudi arabia has mentioned it as talked about. it's eager to find some modest vandy, but also they want political. they want some political concessions from damascus 1st. but this is a moment when i think one needs to look at the sanctions regime, which has been extremely tough on syria and, and question whether it's working because it has failed. it hasn't changed the

political architecture and serial one iota, but it has starved people. it has hurt the most vulnerable that the women and children, mostly 90 percent of syrians are living under the poverty line. there's almost no electricity. there's no fuel. and the government has the government and the steering economy have come to a standstill. and this is, this is not a way to try to revive the syrian syrup future of syria and certain people in this time of great need. so i think it is a time for the international community to revise its policies, which just have not been working or for syria, desperately. the people of syria desperately need the sanction lifted, syria itself wants to be reintegrated into the international community. now is the time you're saying to bring syria in from the code but, but is the syrian government to be trusted?

will it try to take advantage of the disaster for its own? and of course it's going to take advantage. you know, everybody is taking advantage of this in one way or the other. and an upside is going to try to take advantage of this in order to mom lives relations. that's what you know. he's reached out to egypt. egypt reached out to him. he's in the process of trying to normalize relations with turkey. of course, it's gonna be extremely difficult because of the enclave in the north and turkey has been the traditional defender of the arab insurgency and arab opposition groups . so this is a difficult path ahead, but there really is no target in the international community spent the last 11 years trying to destroy outside in the syrian army and bring about political change . it failed. it gave up, we saw the rise of isis, that rosemont tied up in syria and it, it, it got spooked by the syrian opposition. and it left aside in place. that was that decision made by the international community. and therefore,

they can't just star the syrian people, whatever the king of jordan is also reached out to and to president i saw there's a very quickly joshua on the presence of, of, of russia and iran in syria where they fit into this briefly we've got about a minutes left. you mention iran, i've been waiting back there a to one of his major problems. iran just, it's almost double the price of oil sales to siri. it's not going to subsidize anymore. so this, this is, it makes it very difficult to help us out for the west to step in. because of course, we are fighting this war in ukraine, and our enemies are russia and iran. so if we can hurry, syria, many people will say, let's do it because it will hurt russia any iran and it turns syria into a quagmire from those 2 countries. and unfortunately, that's the kind of thinking that has prevailed so far. and perhaps it's time that we change that thinking for the syrians. now that we see the suffering,

gentlemen there, we must end the discussion. many thanks indeed, to all of you, our casa, i said aloud she and joshua atlantis. and thank you for watching. don't forget, you can see the program again at any time just by going to the website is l 0 dot com for further discussion. join us on our facebook page that's at facebook dot com, forward slash ages inside story. and of course the conversation continues. twitter handle at ha, inside story for me a free and i got the whole team here. and so thanks for being with us. we'll see you got the news. ah.

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sears for miles, is on the go. and me tonight out is there is only a mobile app. is this is where we dissects. analyze. with algae, there is a mobile app available in your favorite app. still just set for it and tapped are made and you opt from al jazeera new at your fingertips. ah, 72 hours old. dramatic risk used continue inter kia but hopes fight of finding more survivors. image freezing temperatures, mass burials and syria as hundreds of thousands of earthquake survivors in the war torn country desperately need help.