assisted me now tyria and morocco they set of snow, their dispatches. not much more that's come. i don't think for the south africa there's a lot more dramatic tropical sector in freddy's, in the process of crossing madagascar, then reforming to cross towards mozambique. ah . join the debate, the you know that the sector seems empowered by the government and stained by the government. today they are the government africans how security is also global. help security on it online at your voice. there is no right to defense. there is no right to protest, we can't just keep relying on aid. there has to be some work towards a sustainable economy. at the end of the day, it is ordinary objects that are paying the price, listerine anal, dedira, guns lie between sdn and pakistani border forces. a major crossing for trade and

travel between the countries has been closed. so what's causing the lightest flare up? and how will that affect people on both sides of the border? this is inside stored. ah. hello welcome to the program. i'm toma cried the main crossing between afghanistan and pakistan has been closed for days and border forces on each side have exchanged fire. ah! the incident is the latest in a series of flare ups between the 2 countries. have galveston says it shot the border on sunday. after pakistani security officials reportedly prevented afghans seeking medical help from entering with that's after pakistan,

tight and security at its border crossings of thousands of vehicles carrying travelers and goods. and al stranded on both sides of the border. and traders and businesses are facing mounting losses. in the last few months. the countries have closed the crossing many times and violence has often broken house pakistan and afghanistan shearer bordeaux nearly 2600 kilometers long with 18 crossing points. the one in the border town of talk. com is the busiest its based nearly 180 kilometers from each country's capital of command height of reports from the pakistani capital. islamabad, being a landlord country of one is on, is heavily dependent on trade across the border from august on that are 2 major crossings. one that connects german red kandahar the fish all already didn't city of nigger. this is also one of the big route into

a one is on board country the enjoy. consider but trade and vote country the facing economic hardship, the on site, the q bargain on of north adhered into the agreement unconfirmed report saying that another one patient was turned back from the board. many of want to come to budget on medical attention. the other ones are not happy with the way the pockets have behaved deposits on the side of got one that bordered to be opened. there's no magic efforts that underway. but on monday, there was also an exchange of automatic fire, which led to among some of the people living closer to a boarded area to move from their homes temporarily. and also, according to custom, fisher $300.00 drug were now stranded on the budget on the side. many of them getting better to relate them so that drunk lake can do use lock in for traded on both sides. and people of course,

will be hoping that this issue or the dog in order to alleviate the hardship of the people and also to be able to prove beneficial for budgets on the trade was sending that commodity the across the board up. the fiscal model reporting fall insights story from it from our bod will go to our guests and just a moment that 1st, let's take a closer look at the importance of the talk. hm. crossing it is a vital link for trade between the 2 nations and thousands of vehicles passed through it every week. it's particularly important for afghanistan that uses it to export coal and receive food and other essentials from pakistan. thousands of people use it every day for work and to get medical help and treatment of the decades. telecom has also been the main point of entry into pakistan for refugees. relations between the countries have been on edge since the taliban took over afghanistan in august 2021. ah.

well for more on this i am now joined by our guests father silence. professor of political science at cobble university in london is osalla m outs, director of development research group a consultancy focusing on women and youth development and central and south asian countries. and n is, i'm a bad is a, as was there, a career diplomat and pakistan's, former ambassador to afghanistan, a womb welcome to you will. thank you very much for being on inside story. he, as i want to stop by a trying to figure out exactly what you think happened. i mean, have you been able to pinpoint exactly why the border crossing was closed? this bottle, and the one which has it also mentioned germany. this out of the dream barton costume barnes door dead out of the like gas alarm harm and i'm not are there are some transaction takes place, but it is the other,

the major lens between the 2. now what happened actually this, there was a bold vision rosara dark to park stanford treatment and the unwritten and get him in between the 2 sites or wide some time was that each patient, one attendant would be allowed to the doctor visit this i heard from people that live to the official document. so on this day the a patient had one attendant with him which was turned down. according to the media report by the spanish security. there you better get the visa and then come. so on this, the tension grew to this point there. dev ronnie, a gentleman on the spot was the senior one in charge of the check was from the can upon side immediately closed at the bottom. it still is

closed and done. so it flared up and the firing took place between the 2. now this issue of depression is not that important, but it flared up because the trust deficit between the 2 side is an increased gradual increase says the taliban have taken over. in fact, between this law and cover, the trust deficit has been there in time it widens when it comes down. it's roots out of deep down in the early days of the creation of pakistan. but let me leave that there. the tension increases with the of it some things like this because the bottom management has been a problem between the 2 sides. then comes in to do online. you should between the 2 . a one side door unofficially officially, even though one can gun isn't it,

got denied is recognizing the line, but publicly that hesitant to admit and pakistan considers it as an international bother with obviously the she goes a lot deeper than just and you know, issues over over visas and fuzzy from an if can a sun point of view, i mean it a telephone. a pointed commissioner at the crossing said that pakistan has not been abiding by its commitments. what other commitments and how is this issue being to saved in afghanistan? yes, yes, thank you. actually was sent an exception of pakistan. pakistan never support a couple based government. they never supported a government which is looking after i've done as a united and saw in country that extend has all men time to pack to, to see if we see even better,

no stop by and could not satisfy pakistan. a wish to have a neighbor on the side which could be assisted in many ways to make a political and social taliban wants to return to power to deal with believing that pakistan will stay as a close friend as a close ally and as a close supporter but as soon as the taliban are back empowered, they have been demi, nice to have been scrutinized by pakistani government and military for the 1st time in the history of gunderson. my suspicion is there isn't a free pakistan here. the power body on sunday got inside afghanistan was, it was considered to be an estate act by tyler, by name carbon, and it created

a lot of mistress between both the governments. secondly, pakistan it till for domestic. and he is freezing to many tensions political, economic, and social, the pakistani, democratic leadership, and also military leadership has not been able to stabilize, said the, on quote the on country. so they have been looking for some blooming good in the region. i've just been having some troubles and problems not only with have kind of fun, but you don and also then the idea that problems have been a little last thing is that the tons of agreements between i'm going to start and punch sunday. so very prominent, tucked them in by the name of uptime, which is not been respected by pakistan. and it has never been considered as an official document by pakistan and passed many years. and then one of the taliban took power, they also raise they show up to, to be implemented due to up to pakistan will have tons, it's out to us until asia,

rob gunning, spanaway, understand when the route to go to take its exports and import to india. which is not suspected and it has been creating a lot of problem for i've gotten sick, nominally social and political. okay. i would like to bring you in here. obviously this is a big humanitarian issue. who's paying the, the price here on both sides of the board who the real people that are being affected in their daily lives. thank you very much for this question. and just before i go to the humanitarian aspect of this, i have to remind our audience that this border is laying on the direct line, which is still contested. most of the afghans in particular, those who live on both sides of this bother are not formally recognizing that

you're aligned. and so the conversation is reflected in some of these reactions that we see are somehow supposedly out of the government control. and it's obvious that even door afghanistan today has the most pakistani friendly regime in place. still, there are tensions, there are situations like this so which lets not forget that it within. ringback this context the, the, the closure of the border is also a political act, and it's like a pressure point by the, by the parties involved in order to pressurize each other. and now who is paying the price from a humanitarian for perspective. it's absolutely clear that it's the afghans who are paying the huge price here because the afghans are in a very, a concerning situation. at the moment, there is a humanitarian crisis in the country with absolute majority of the people in need of food, immediate services, and in particular medical services, which is going and getting worse,

actually due to the limitations that afghanistan is facing today. so a lot of those patients who are an urgent need, elderly, particularly, who are an urgent need of carrying and treatments and pakistani cities of the shower or a some of us are now the, the prime affected people. in addition to that door from border, similar to chairman border as was mentioned by your other guests, are places where the livelihoods of absolute majority of those who are risen, resided locally or regionally. and those areas is depending. so people in the low level are losing their jobs. the traders from both side, the pocket only side as one of the african side. also losing a lot when we have more than, like a reporter say more than 300 or 500 trucks or kind of stuck there. and we have seen so many times this happened is not the 1st time unfortunately. and the following is because i think there is this tension that is out of the control of the face,

who cannot really maintain that level of stability there to, to, to happen. so, conclusively, it's the people who are paying the price like any other pension, like any other conflict, and particularly those who's health conditions or lives directly depending on this border, being open as obviously this isn't just an issue in afghanistan. i mean, it's an important trade route for pakistan as well. i mean, how much of an appetite is there to keep this bought a closed door? is there any pressure coming on, authorities from the people that live in the area that need to do trade in the area from the pakistani side to open the border up as soon as possible. olivia permit me . i'll make a comment on my fence. i'm gobble said about a reaction of focused on his com. you said no government in kabul. nice in the true sense by pakistan. in fact, let's,

let's not clear things from ourselves. i'll give you a historical perspective. there after cation of pakistan, 1947 in august 27. marcus on applied for a membership of the union and and 30th of september, 1947. all the members of the un war to become a member of understand rich goss negative or to didn't draw from pakistan. there is the objection, but there projection remained for 20 days on the but on 20, at october 5 to $7.00. they took it back, but the fust stone was caused by the hands, naturally to pakistan is the rest is a history. if you're going through less less i why blame game. what i said i telling my friend of mine is to check with you. and if i haven't said

a word more than what actual history is, then you can blame me for it. but the 1st beginning was made by the other. and they still have is that a vision on the line? which we consider as an established fact, because that was done by the british government in 18. 93. when back to san was not there, it was a part of the indian subcontinent. the british and dia run a ruler of demand fun, started doing like this, and you sent them in between them and pakistan. got it as a success of state my financial check with the union and, and according to the international law that the success of state in that's what treaty has already been made. so it was not grand bipartisan pakistan got it, but the other ones did negative or good reviews too, or some to become a member. so let's buddy a thumbs down to the

o. r b, a activity on the i'm the father will be definitely affects both side down rounds more because they are dependent or a mainly i'm importing goods from pakistan door they have access to the of the neighboring countries. also having trade with them. but mostly focus is on pakistan or dread for education, for the treatment of their passions. so this impacts them mostly, but certainly are people near the i have learned globe on saturday by lynch with because the amended depend on this transit trade of our bill bill yearning. because in the tribal area, there is hardly anything for people to live on. so this is the only source i would say of income of those people, so they are a concern. they will love that the, the,

the body remains. okay. obviously, this is a mess of social impact, fuzz, millions of africans live in pakistan and mini commute on a daily basis between the 2 countries. i mean this, this ties as well as much division as there isn't as much history as there is like we had outlined there between the 2 countries. there's actually a lot in common and there is a brotherhood between these 2 nations as well, isn't there? so what does that do to the people that rely on that daily commute between afghanistan and pakistan? if you look at the starting call perspective, we might come up with a lot of detail my evidence and perspectives. but my new pakistan on is used to do it and issue at the pressure my point, i've got to go, but

a mental problem that they know that i'm going to send is a lin lock and they use this deal on line or this border as an issue to the sanctuary show to all those anti state tech to sit on this line on board site and provide them support to somehow do stabilize instead of understanding. that is why the government and carbon never never to consider pakistan as a friend. that when taliban was resisting the u. s. a commission and i've got a son and plus 20. they were protected and supported by pakistan, government and pakistan people. but what did he tell him to pilot they have been having and the mind and heart all those make it easy and disability that they went through and pass 20 years of business tennis in pakistan as their leader to sort of

the killed some of the leaders were detained, many of the leaders were sold out to us. and so that driven just secondly, the mistress. previously you were a guest, and mistress and the now touched different certain scholars between pakistan and afghanistan and much of the blame comes to pakistan. and the very last thing is that if you consider this broader a ton of the trout, why pakistan is not biding instead of to the w t o, as i'm going to spend is member also of the w 2 in the pakistan. and then to mission a laws and regulations is that why they are not allowing god because transports to the body to the india and also why not allowing i've got goods to be transported on. it's. ready momentum and seasonal out to night. karachi last thing is that blame game as well, which comes from pakistan,

the data line as part of so what have they done to the stadium, to the development of the 80, to the how stupid are to this area and what have been achieved by them. you know that still tell it by not been blaming regarding the recent attacks resistance and my mind that is going on as soon as the taliban took power to pakistani start the menu of the attackers minute instability factor. the sort of still coming from that side was started by punch study tyler bunch shooters and for the blame game is always there, but we should not forget that the britain said 9018. 93 have never signed an agreement with us. it was a buffer zone and the gun is done that time was playing

a buffer state. and the general as well as a buffer between and the imperialist anglo. and i've got a government at that time and date, and i just want to move away from the history for the moment and, and you touched on this a little bit early and i want you to expand on it. you know, many africans traveled to pockets on for medical treatment. can you explain just how big an issue that is and what happens? what's happening to them now and our lives being put at risk with this border closure? precisely as you are well aware and i'm for the 2 guests and the program as well. unfortunately, due to the long years of conflict and also due to the currents tyler, bon authorities benz on, on education. there is a massive shortage of medical services, particularly medical at the more advanced level of medical,

they have noses and treatments for the people in afghanistan. so afghans are left with no other options, but to rely on their immediate neighbors. in the past, india was a very sort of like, significant to destination, but because of the visa and restrictions on travels, no longer people can go to india. so everyone is back to like using this option of saving a life. and then taking the person who has l. if we all look around our relatives or friends or networks of people, every one on average, every family have been to pockets on once or twice, at least just for the medical treatment. so it's quite significant. what is really bothering him, particularly as mister hall was also saying in his comments how this immediate issue are triggered because something was agreed between afghanistan and pakistan in the recent months, which was too far because there is no v that now issue than an easy way there are like black markets be says with $11200.00 or so the dollars that you have to pay

you can get a pocket funny visa. but what for the medical reasons? because of the pressure from the people, the pakistani government, indeed the taliban have made an agreement that okay, there should be a another procedure to allow the patients with one attendance to, to cross the border for the medical treatment. i know my own relatives living and you said i've got a son who use this like 2 weeks ago, husband and wife, very l. would there one, some got to the border and crossed it, and one for treatment and back to have gone assaults. so if something like this exists, the neighborhood that the brother, what we were talking about at amier, why is it immediately stopped? and that obviously create tension. and we are talking about the very unstable situation. people are in deep economic crisis and of course these things trigger something that is originated in history. we come up pack history or folded in a folder somewhere. this is a history that affects people live. i said,

i never said that about focused on focused on that exist in the time to do remind was created, i think historical discussions were enough for make before me so i will not repeat it. but it's just a realization because of that contestation that exists. people do not recognize this and therefore when there are change and the policies or whatever reason whether it is do politics or pressure point mentioned before, or any other reasons could be random reason it triggers the immediate reaction of the people in house results into the tensions that we are seeing today. okay. i is, i want to finish with you just very briefly, as a former ambassador, how does this get resolved quickly and peacefully and to get the ball to reopen for everyone that desperately needs to use it as a trade and suppliers? well, give me just a moment to comment on why this trickles up

so very often with on, particularly because of dollar. but before the taliban coming and power, the wizard restrictions weren't there, but they were not so stringent during a venues b as they are now. now the taliban is taken bit very seriously that look, we are, you are friends for us. it should have been a little more lenient. then i'm making it difficult. that is the real bone of contention. where it is. it's a links go very deep in the history, i can, if been any time, how do we, how do we move on from that? i'm just going to mention that i think the 1st and foremost, or the most important element is, did both the governments in law bob and goblin, shortly accept and regret the bossed mistakes. i'm not going into the details to

slouch, bother committed, goblin, this your forgiven file. get them regret and then move on until and unless it is addressed, these games will keep cropping up. and australian got a whatever effort may make something will happen and will again, a bit development there out benches in our history. but again, this thing comes up and the development between the 2 pushes to the bank and the tension on the deficit increases. so far back to our address, we have to go into the history and the 2 governments have to come up with this idea that you do use in the past in the bow. my 2 independent sovereign states, a hand in hand and resolve the issue of our people. let's hope of every one site

that is affected, that those 2 governments can, can come to a resolution as quickly as possible. thank you so much. that is a 1000 and cobble was ella namath and london and i as was in is about thank you very much for being guests on inside story and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at ha, inside story for me. tell mccrae and the whole team here. bye for now. ah,

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