ah, the latest news as it breaks, still biding, arriving here fledging. more weapons. more defense finance with detailed coverage more than a decade. who has killed or displeased many serious millions of them to let the truth here looking for safety from around the world, limiting their powers require amendment to the constitution and the electron more with increasing number of governments getting electric. neither is we'll have to wait longer or the china proposed as a way to in the war and ukraine. could it work with cave in moscow compromise? and can beijing be seen as an honest broker of all the, with the keys? does it have supporting russia? this is inside story. ah

hello, welcome to the program, i'm tom mccrae, the people's republic of china wants peace in europe. it's a tough ass could. beijing has sent its top diplomat on to a with a plan. when ye met president vladimir putin and moscow just 2 days before the 1st anniversary of the war, beijing says it stands on russia's invasion, is neutral, but it's become a major trading partner with the country since western powers imposed sanctions on moscow. washington is watching closely as ukraine's president below them is. zalinski says he plans to meet china's president shing pang to discuss the proposal for pace. katrina, you reports from beijing ladings. no limits. partnership with moscow has damaged its reputation. largely in the west. the chinese officials said they're working to mediate the conflict and promote peace, the united states and its allies,

art convinced. but analysts say, other countries might be either the stairs that it's reputation, will be deeply damaged in the united states in canada, in a range of western european countries. and in places like japan, australia. but the bulk of the developing world, for example, has a relatively ambivalent attitude towards russia's invasion of ukraine. in jakarta, chinese foreign minister chin gang met his indonesian counterpart but no, ma, sooty. the 2 discussed strengthening trade and maintaining regional stability. dogwood june general new cold war competitiveness of great powers should not appear in the asia pacific region. and in tokyo, chinese and japanese security chiefs held talks for the 1st time in 4 years. dating is troubled by japan's plant military build up while tokyo fears a potential attack by china and taiwan with us. we are facing manning challenges and issues,

as well as various possibilities in our relationship. the flurry of diplomatic activity comes after the us shot down a suspected spy balloon in its air space. earlier this month, washington accuses china flags by balloons. over 40 countries, something beijing denies. china's charm offensive isn't confined to diplomatic meetings. it's also released 2 documents this week, one, calling for a more collective approach to global security and another attacking us domains on the world stage. china wants to reshape the global order into one less influenced by democratic values, and it says it will stand by any country which shares it's world view, including russia. katrina, you out 0, they doing. let's take a closer look at china's proposal to end the conflict bashing as calling for an end to western sanctions on russia and urging moscow and keith to hold peace talks and suggest creating humanitarian corridors for civilians. as well as steps to ensure

grain can be safely exported from ukraine. and in a reminder of what could be at stake in the conflict. the plan also warns against the use of nuclear weapons as well as attacks on nuclear power plants. beijing says it is neutral in the conflict, but washington has voice and concerns. china is planning to supply moscow with weapons. beijing denies those claims. ah. but for more on this, i am joined by our guests in beijing as henry, hugh ja wang, the founder and president of the center for china and globalization. and moscow is tatiana cook her ava, russian journalist and former deputy head of sputnik news. and in odessa is hannah challis, the director of security programs at ukrainian prism a foreign policy council, think tank. i will welcome to you all. thank you very much for being on the inside story. and we'll get to some of the more contentious issues in this plan. proposed

by china, but 1st i do want to begin with china. henry, if i can stop with you, why does china want to be involved in all of this? what isn't it for them? and why are they proposing this now? well, we just go gone through the one year anniversary of this ukraine, russian conflict, and which is a very unfortunate averse at and, and also to china is the only country actually are since the ukraine is a, is a, in a fight in russian and, and also that as they thought behind the ukraine and so, so, so basically, you know, that the whole west is fighting at russian. and china is the only country that significant enough of the 2nd largest economy is not involved in this conflict at all. and the china has a very unique position to, to broke a piece and, and china has actually, you saw, you know, you reported that the director was,

he has just come back to the shuttle diplomacy with the number of european countries a spoke of the media consume security conference, which i also came just came back from that. but also i think he also mad to the credit for minister and the russian counterpart to really broke this piece and the find out what's going on. and then john has at this time at random and anniversary you should, these are position paper which i think you just all like are quite well and sovereignty territory integrity. you kind of every culture should be respected. and also, i think most significant also china doesn't really want to see and a nuclear weapon being used and nuclear power plants been used all about chemical haven't been use and also eliminate terry aid for security. so what, what, what can you get now that's worse composition that chinese, the proposing and the also to called the for peace and, and talks. so i think chinese really doing a lot of the public goods for the war and, and trying to promote peace and stability and also ill pursuant to the you and

a principal approach. and john like to, to be more involved in his mediating and then also a see the and or answer and tragic a crisis. ok. and i want to go to unix and, and how this piece plan has been received and moscow. i mean, it seems, i think we're foreign ministry spokesperson said we shared beijing's views. i mean, so, in russia's eyes, as, as china, really the best place, a country to, to mediate any potential negotiation here. well, tom, i think that in russia's eyes, china would be a perfect party to mediate here. because 1st and foremost, it's a party that's proven the well to say, the least not hostile to russia. and we obviously can't look for any of the western parties to mediate in any sort of peace relationship is peace negotiations with ukraine at sir. yeah, it's

a very simple fact that throughout this year and, you know, all of the, all of the discourse, every single address coming from the west and part of the world was filled with such hate towards, you know, it was the russian leadership towards the russian people as well. so i don't believe that me any. there would be a very limited number of countries that in russia's eyes at this stage would be suited to mediate any sort of negotiation. however, i don't think that this is the big question that's take at the moment. we will get to some of the bigger issues in just a moment and i want to talk to you next them zalinski has said that he plans to meet choosing ping. i mean, can zelinski trust she and the chinese her to negotiate a fair deal, or would they even want them to you know, 1st of all,

we should say the chinese one year later with their proposals. because since the beginning of the where they had more pro rational position, if we remember that we were really liking their statements up with a great deal for others. but at the same time they were buying russian energy resources. apple bypassing some of the sanctions. that's why now the official position and not on the official position in ukraine, that it is not a peace plan. it is the chinese position. that is the big difference, as it said in my city. because in general, while you have a mediation effort, you would like to ask the position of 2 sides and what we saw, the travel of the chinese official to moscow negotiations regular with middle school. and we didn't have the actual comb with the ukrainian side. that's for to was the sack of it is definitely, you know, what a small remark both the said with a for chinese co lead because it was west fighting crush at liberty bid fighting russia. it is russia invaded independent and sovereign territory of ukraine. so

what is really missing in this plan and why it is not perceived as this piece flesh? it is withdrawal of the aggressive from the territory of ukraine because for china, always the territorial integrity of the state are so important. as in this so called proposal, we haven't seen these prerequisite for the possible peace. you will get to some of those issues in just a moment. and we'll, i want to put that to you to, i mean, there's been plenty of criticism that china is hardly neutral and all this, that the fact that hasn't condemned to russia's invasion clearly shows a bias right from the outset. what do you say to there's was in chinese position very clear from her beginning. i think the very beginning. one, what book, how the process she already called the president putting saying that china doesn't want to see a conflict and or would like to see the piece for a process. i think that the, at the beginning there are,

there are some few stars going on between russia and ukraine, and china has already or is encouraging that. and one chinese leaders talk to your appeal leaders to president biden. you know, they are encouraging this kind of a piece talk so, so i even wrote up at the new york time, one months before one months after the war broke up, i said china could the immediate and, and try to help. so so, so we see that is happening now and because the drug was really drag out and china also provide a community terry aid to ukraine. chinese, really all those are at a very strong position of not using nuclear weapons and, and also called the sovereignty of territory, interpreted every countries and also a balance to security to be insured for the war. so i think, you know, chance positions were clear, very strong model in china, henry chinese new. so sorry to interrupt till henry jones is also being accused by the us that it could potentially supply arms and ammunition to russia. i mean,

there's hardly a neutral position, is it? i know it's been denied by beijing. well, that's not true. i mean, we heard a story again. i mean, i remember last year 11 chimes diplomat meeting. he was the one might be for the wrong meeting in rome. there was hes wars like. 5 that spread by us again, so, so now they're doing the same so, but the chinese of, i think the gum novice has already denied that, and also chinese defense minis. though we have also said at the shangri la dialogue that china does not provide annie military or substantial materials. the body of the normal trade that china doesn't favor sanctions. because that is really hardly though, go for economy a. we are on top of a pandemic, and that is really, i think, chance that again in this position. so we hope that we can really sit down and talk and let's have the discussions. i mean, that's really, you know, the piece piece at toes as nicholas thought. i somewhere, and i think i propose the my a new yorker or bad to say, let's have a southern party talk in a p fight

a security member plus you crim policy. you know, within that you were shared by secretaries. let's, let's do that. let's do a piece talk. the southern party talks ok. and i want to get to probably the most contentious point in this piece plan and, and that is the 1st point that is rise in it is all about respecting sovereignty. the plan does not specifically say that russia must withdraw its troops from ukraine. i mean, is that simply the bottom line that russia has to return back over the board at remove all its troops when back any land that it may have one so far back to the ukrainians? yes, if we think about the territorial integrity and serenity of ukraine, that is the bottom line is sort of the red line. that's something as a prerequisite. because here we have the open active progression recognized by all international organization. and yes, to the united nation general assembly residence just confirmed, yet want to get more involved the international work. i'm sure you need to

understand that ukraine is not quite in 4 or 5 square kilometer. so some students lounge, we are fighting for what people that are leaving to those territories. so that's why, for us it is so important. and we know what is happening there with the re to cation ways, the political prisoners with all of that is just classified by maybe your parliament over the as the genocide. but i will say that that is not the only problem that piece class because there are a lot. so for our pro russian position there or retro racial, the russian positions. some others are just the statements without the real proposal. so you know, when to speak about the, the flag one certain types of the implementation. for example, when chinese speaking about the nuclear security you paid was the 1st one to speak about nuclear security is one of those states that rejects us nuclear arsenal. even war chinese, one of those who find you the pest memorandum in 1994 about these. but at the same time we see just the call to the russian federation. i know even the call to

withdraw the military forces from the biggest european nuclear power plant in the british. don't you see these shadows are really for them? and they demonstrate that to take that position was much more important than really find an interesting position. what to propose to the negotiating table? last, you know, when the shading of the situation was european union was washington. that's very interesting. but the was happening at the temperature of ukraine. ukrainian people are struggling and fighting. so probably the chinese side should need to share with your cranium leadership, but not with brussel burly in washington, or somewhere else in the shape with their neighbors about their problems. but if they talk about us, they need to talk with. okay. and i see you shaking your head pretty much right the way through that response. i mean, what's your view about suffering territory? i mean, is russia river going to hand back any land that it is? once invited ukraine, why look?

i'm shaking my head because i'm hearing the same rhetoric from my ukranian visit the that i've heard throughout this year. and unfortunately, this is the biggest issue that is standing in the way of any sort of negotiation between the 2 parties. for instance, you know, there is no position in their mind. if a country does not side with ukraine, it is automatically against it. so full ukraine neutrality as a concept, means that you're citing with ukraine, but not all the way through. you know, and in real world neutrality is exactly what china has portrayed so far, its position has been more than balanced. actually, as you can, you might have nurses or, you know, china's abstain from several votes in the u. n. a, it's, it's the definition of balance and the plan itself,

it's really actually good. but there's one problem that for ukraine and for it's western back is and when you say, you know, when you crane and say no rush is not fighting the west, but of course rushes fighting the west. because ukraine is fighting with the military power off the west without western support. i dare say that war wouldn't be here. now, you know, this conflict would have been a very different one. and then we were talking about, hopefully trying to find an into the war. and if you could just go back and answer the question that i, i 1st us, i mean will potent will, will, would he removed troops from any territory in ukraine that they have one over the past year as part of a negotiation and return back to russian territory as it was one year ago before the invasion. well, tom miller, it's been a lot has happened in this year. and if you've been keeping on the news and i suspect you have, then the territories that the russian troops are currently in,

have been admitted into the russian federation following referendums. so those referendums haven't been recognized by anyone on the west, by the way, by russia haven't, that they haven't been recognized by anyone else, apart from russia. so i'm taking from your response that there would be no negotiation on potentially removing troops as part of a negotiation. is that correct? and henry, i just want to go to you on this point because it does seem like a pretty glaring admission in any piece plan. because it's always going to be a sticking point, isn't it? of russia doesn't remove its troops from ukrainian land. then there's no way forward in a negotiation. wasn't from ver, beginning was see a turkey as israel and some other power trying to a broker piece. but china, you know, we, we, we really a lot of the door, the cities walk along and,

and then china, you know, at this anniversary really propose a peaceful and those are, i would say that that is also child on a top diplomat or has mat, you quinn form is the face to face in your music. i was there immunity conference or took us to wait? is that so? so i think that is really a very significant also to china and that is a rushing counterpart. i mean, right now in the where we caught, we were here on the rodriguez a lot of, of, you know, 5 languages or, you know, in this battle ground. but where, where we're at the p spoke, or we need a piece plan and piece proposal. this'll isn't it not perfect, but you know the course level well a, me on. but surely china would have known that this is, this is going to be the most contentious issue. russian troops in ukrainian land. so surely they should have been one of the 12 and when they do and i'm sorry tom,

but what we consider you going, you know, that is if you listen, tatiana, you're going to listen to the main character is recognized by the united nations in, okay, all right, hang on a 2nd with hang on the scene. i was yelling. i just want to go back to will. will it got time for it to hear from everyone? i asked henry the question, so i'll let you go 1st. yeah, i think, you know, i, me suddenly, the result, there's a big gap between the 2 sides on positions with roger you credit. absolutely. but i want to say, you know, no matter how big the difference, i mean the, at the end of the day we really have to sit together. we did the pews conference up to summit. i was a proposal that was 7 part involved, a u. s. and p 5 plus your grant was you and let's, let's log, i mean we have to talk and sit down and. busy we cannot just continues fight. so what, what you grand and also back by natal, and when the fight was russian, who are, who else? i mean, there is a significant the country of psychological economy that has

a position china proposing a position to call for peace. i mean, that's itself, this is just as worse significant. it's, it's recognized by ukraine. it's recognized by russian. so it's good. i mean, you know, across country side, it's good faith. yeah, it, you said the title teddy on that. let's do it. thanks henry. tatiana, what, what were you going to say before i'm saying, turn that in. the problem here lies even deeper than the territories that are, in fact, right now, considered by russia and will be from here on as part of the russian territory. and the problem lies in crimea. i mean, if you listen to every speech, yesterday's conference of president lansky, he says we're going to liberate crimea. i myself grew up in crimea. i'm sorry to say that the crimea never wanted to be ukrainian. and to begin a conversation with the crying inside and with it's a western bacchus, you know,

we need to understand and i'm afraid that it is, that russian needs a comprehension that, you know, crimea is never going to be on the table. i hate you. when i want to get will, it's not about the territories that we're fighting over right now. the territories that have been subjected to the anti terrorist operation, we're at least what kia called it from starting in 2014. if i'm not mistaken, it was the, the end of the year. but the big question that ukraine seems to be abundantly clear on they're fighting for territory. ok, hannah, i want to bring you in. now i'm in this crimea going to be on the table here in, in, in negotiation. ukraine is over the, on the table and the question is not in the president's statement. if you remember the negotiation that happened between russia and ukraine back in march. if some bull at that time, it was

a proposal to speak about creamy separately. but what about the russian federation grove, negotiation and after march we didn't have 80. it's not that you couldn't do that one because she said in the beginning of the work, why when we speak now to johnny, so categorical, probably she just wants to see how the resistance movements within the last few months of up deliberation or sure song started to be strong just yes, the ukrainian flag was by far as long as we see thousands of the yellow ribbons of the leaflets of the ports are all around here for a while and all other places wrong to not speaking about 15 percent of the cranial structural populations infusion population off the sun and swallow the didn't support the annexation and now heavily prosecutors and their houses just destroyed by the russian authorities over there. so that's the problem that we need to leave with the question alone as we are now just talking to try this position. and i would like to make one for the 2. even that i don't believe in the perspective of

the thing you should see of china. one of the reasons because they never had the real experience of mediator and their goals. i a little bit different from what the classical mediator will do, but well for you, pray, be very fast. the china finally decided to speak about these more about the russian aggression because it was that the west is banking, ukrainian, 5, they are back in ukrainian, defense of the territory. i wish the piano to wake up with the a, a race huge warning as a nice morning because of your forces brought, let's think about china because there are 2 very important issues that they put in there. so whole piece, lab. and that will be important for the international rea, 1st of all, as nuclear security, because it's one of the nuclear with china should have to be the voice in these issue. and we have a lot of jefferson's ation of the situation. and the fact that is the food security, china always been one of the biggest buyers will ukrainian agricultural products

and all the countries around china as well. so the decision of the question was the grain of work with cultural exports. and if china will join the for the chaise and that also will be more important. so it took to me that the point of changes flowed . we can bite in the individual in china. can try to find a nice in between all those issues, even if the whole proposal will never be discussed. ok, henry, i want to go back to, you know, i mean, what is on the line here for china? what, what does it hoping to get out of it? obviously it's gotten major ties with, with both moscow and, and keith, so, i mean, what does it really hoping i'm in and how urgent is it that this will comes to an end for china's prosperity? what absolutely, i think chinese is the largest trading vision was one to 30 countries and also chinese is also a large trade in their shows that was germany with european and american and r c. r

. so channeled on all the cities ward continued to drag on into a continues of fight and the conflict channel on like to see the piece and the stability. and also where we are. we are really also facing a lot of challenges and avenue clea, a possibility to nuclear war and things like that. so as on china, as a, as a nuclear power has made that positions, 1st of all, china will never 1st utilize the nuclear bomb and also chat, want to see others to use the nuclear power to so. so i think that a very strong message there. so but, but also again, channel would like to see a more balance the security piece and, but also like to see this piece as thought is somewhere, at least the way to start somewhere. i need to talk and some county has to propose a piece that even though it's not perfect but that stuff from that somewhere. and then i think wow, you know, you credit and west is, is, is in confrontation, but also russian as well. that they are having this conflict are challenged only a 3rd party is the significant not to, to, to broker

a piece. and that at least also support you wouldn't to be involved in that process . so i think that the, you are, has the 2nd agenda to go to his as wisdom, moscow and keith and, and, and also wants to break a piece. so now that at china as a p one p 500, to support that initiative and also help other countries with john in that let's start talking and, and that have a immediately cease fire. and after that, let's talk about, you know, negotiate. haven't you been sca moment let's, let's do something. i mean rather than we're, we're having the hope of seeing is that become another. busy long, long hall of about afghanistan, or long fight to benefit nobody and hurts the war, a prosperity and stability. i mentioned that there are many people that are agreeing with your comments that i'd like to say this was brought an inch as quickly and as peacefully as possible. i thank you so much at 2 or 3 guests. henry, who yeah wang, i, tatiana cook, ariba and hannah shall is thank you very much for being on the inside story today.

on thank you to for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, al jazeera dot com. and the further discussion go to our facebook page. it's facebook dot com forward slash ha, inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at a j inside story. for me, tell mccrae and the whole team here and uh huh. bye for now. mm. with on county the calls one year off the roster invaded ukraine all sanctions against moscow worth it. because as far as senegal feel,

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