ah, to ukrainian filmmakers join the army to fight against russian separatists in 2014 . they document their journey from civilians to soldiers. as the fighting intensifies the tools of their trade become weapons of war what will be the toll for ukraine's brave hearts? witness on al jazeera. it's been 20 years since the conflict and awful again, but hardly anyone talks about it these days. the violence has killed hundreds of thousands of people and displaced millions more. so go peace if a come to wisdom, so down this is inside stored. ah,

hello, welcome to the program, i'm tom mccrae. this week marks a grim milestone for the people of western sudan. the conflict and awful began 20 years ago. it's killed hundreds of thousands of people and displaced more than 2000000. a peace agreement was signed in 2020, but many a still in desperate need of humanitarian aid victims are also demanding justice. we have a lot to discuss without his surely, but 1st this update from al jazeera is have a morgan who spoke to some of the most affected at zemzem camp, the northern da for when we're started infidel western region of dar for allie mahmud says, he didn't expect it to reach his village in the wheeler in its laura, but eventually it did. and he and his family were forced to find refuge in this camp. gina. yeah. and then when we flood our homes in 2003,

it was sheltering in the open or under trees. we thought it wouldn't last and continued farming that year, but couldn't harvest anything cause it done to, you know, people were killed, homes were burned, families were separated as like fled. well, i was separated from my sons and only found them when the camp was set up. the dar 4 were killed, more than 300000 people. and over 2000000 were forced from their homes according to the un, 20 years on many areas in the region remained devastated from the war. villages and towns were emptied, as people fled seeking safety. several camps have been set up across the region to shelter those, escaping the fighting. many camps for the displaced and therefore have turned into towns, seemingly replacing those destroyed during years of war. but they all like basic services. there is no running water here, no electricity. and many people rely on humanitarian aid. but it has been to

handling for those who live here and then oh, what is it? we've had cost to receive aid since we came into the can. but some cars had been cancelled. i know some people get them every 6 months and some regular lender, large families that get aid, don't even get enough to last them a month. the number of 8 organizations in the camp has also gone down 8 organizations. see, a lack of funding is hampering their efforts. we don't have enough assistance to go around. we have limited resources and we are in a very difficult position where we have to choose from who gets assistance and who doesn't. so what we try to do is to increase informing our donors our donors of the polite and the condition id says his children have no no other home than the camps. and after 2 decades of living as a displaced person, his worried his grandchildren will also grow up with limited assistance and away from their home village. he will morgan, alta 0, them some camp,

northstar for ok. let's take a closer look at the conflict which began in 2003 off to ethnic african rebels rose up against then president. i'm alba, she has era dominated government. bashir responded by arming local arab malicious, known as the judge await who targeted known arab tribes accused of supporting the rebels. less we mentioned hundreds of thousands of people have been killed and millions more displaced. the international criminal court has charged to share with genocide and crimes against humanity. he was forced to resign and 2019 after widespread protests. ah, okay, we'll, it's bring in our guests now in hot tomb l to gunny c. c. chairman of the national liberation and justice party, and a former governor of da for state who was involved in negotiations in doha as the former chairman of the daf, or regional authority in doha doha abdullah hob affinity,

a professor at our institute. the graduate studies who writes extensively on sudan and also in hot tomb, her face mohammed, director of justice for africa at sudan, a womb welcome to all 3 of you. thank you very much for being on inside story today . if i could please begin with you l to connie, do you feel like the world has forgotten da, 4 and the conflict that's been going on for the last 20 years? well as i do feel like so because the conflict is going on. however, i would like to find out if the company it's an conflict between the river moments and the governors not. and then there are private companies among various tribes in the world and then are mandatory as far as the company between the groups and the government concerned. i think this over the signing of agreement, most of the moment they have signed the lease agreement and they are now her phone

calls. one will be still there. i do still not sign that, but we feel that as far as the cds. however, the private conflicts continued over the last few few years in addition to that. and one of the, the issues that are causing problems for nowadays, bonded as you know very so why does protest ration of light weapons in the hands of the people. and this has been one of the most important factors that are being quoting, executed in industrial. well, i believe that the international community, i mean, unit for the international committee, the almost, i mean amount between $15000000.00 in that in that mission. but unfortunately, i don't think that unit has that much in what had that money,

meaning in development. i mean a lot of things right now. i don't think that any that is any focus on the financial from india and all the focus is more or less on how to me and the government. and that's what push up the well, how does that, how you feel as well that the duffle is being completely overlooked at this point in time? yes, i think it has always been overlooked. look, i think. ready interviews, i have heard the this seemingly interest intense interest in the media in that for why also in abilities where say, trying to show to watch that for or at least go in the media. it did not actually help the actual people to the ground that they there was not

really robust piece building. there was no aid. there was no attempt to look at the roots of the issue. they were only putting some muscle just a, you know, meet over there who caused quite a lot. but they with themselves were helpless. most of the time the cars are kind of jacked and they can not even and they go to the police last there to find it for them. so yes, and i think the conflict has also, as stacy has dimension related transformation in the has and the mind, tribal relationships and i think also created and not only banditry, but the building of themselves will become a lively approach. so these distortions in the society and

in the environment need to was attention. yeah. a facebook. can you just explain for people that might not know? what is the heart of the issue here, like up to 20 years, it's still clearly hasn't been resolved. what can you just get to the heart of the issue here and explain it for people? yes, in the middle, the court probably we saw people are security. and if you look at when the war started to, so the 1227, and c is conflicts. we're now back in terms of level of conflicts to 2002 on 2004 in their listening. and the other thing, i think, what the police station of the and electric community abandon issue that for, you know, doing the unity without having a credit for peace keeping all wrote enforcement agencies that please show that i think on the other issue is natural support for the 80 piece and now many people

are getting back to their business so they can work. and they cannot because they've been attack by the same malaysia, which is target negotiated, that displacement and the killing in that. and i think that is a problem. i think the ontological need to overlook and simplify. the issue that we're not giving it, that they need it attention. the actual address is a little girl and under math daniel line, forty's still there are. the kidney is still there and we are back to square one. or else again, it does it feel like you are back at square one and, and what do you think is actually going to, you know, solve some of the, some of the problems that have, i guess, sprang back to the surface over the last couple of years no, i don't think we are, we are back to school. we're just one is a very difficult time where we had frontier between the 1st of the government supported by the militia, again in some video and so forth. well, i think we move to step a bit, but there are a lot of ground to cover in terms of that for

i believe that i mean the funding issue that we question that is in political from the center result, the conference and in that or i don't think there is, i mean, in 2016, we have actually come up with a program for that solomon that program was that was implemented a very limited search. the only way to have i mean things normalized in that or if we draw the arms from the people, i mean, i mean a lot of nice people know everybody has anybody but he's willing to to attack innocent civilians to do. and that's a fact. i mean, i mean there is a program i thought of intimacy, but at the same time also we feel that there are some issues with the century development center. going to pay attention was going to end up with an end to

them to the misery of the people of the hub. i mean, how do you go about deciding so many people and, and in a peaceful and secure way? i mean, is it even possible? yes, i think you 10 is right in saying that the actual conflict are really conflicts. hello. died down. there is no longer fighting between government for shoes and movement, but on site i think. and the situation is now much worse than when deliberating had started, and this might be might indicate that maybe the armored conflict was not the way to go about this. but anyway, that's,

that's now begun. the issue is now when, when sudan, when this war started, that for as a state or region was more prosperous and she's now and that also had more resources that it had now because at that time oil i'd be found and was, was flowing. and there was some respects, you know, they couldn't be of sudan has collapsed almost. so there is no way that to worry about disarmament or any other thing. if you do not have resources, what you need is a plan for to start. she distracted her too much what it was now. also as it was said, most available groups and not all of them are part of the government,

but the government itself is not functioning at all because there is now the conflict has now gone to the center. so what we probably need is 1st, re some consensus, own a democratic process you need done as a whole the internet you can reach them should come with some funds designated specifically for organization that for returning the blessed people to the get home, the mobilizing the dishes then we'll have some, some movement at the moment as i said, bedding and had become a wheel flavor. yeah. that either the munitions are either paid by the government or are paid by, by foreign powers. all they go and pillage and roll through to live. so this is

a situation cannot be sustained. ok. we just said that there should be democratic consensus. i mean, what are the chances of that actually happening anytime soon? i think, i believe it is probably more that gets responding going, but i think if you look at all the piece agreement on a new book, they also are providing dobbs on munitions for the 2nd edition under michael's. and the problem is, the top of that will be called the cutting in the government because of the security and the government supporting somebody. this is what i meant to protect the people, i think not often. that is why i think it's probably up to the option. the other thing is, i don't think all these agreement intentions tend to work and dental article, but live opinion implemented on the ground on your part. but you've got to the

leaders of the men are not addressing the underlying orders of the problem of the people which is demand security that putting the reach and trying to get people can actually find enough work to to contribute to just security. that's why i think what we need to do is you need to address the c r u c does not know. one of the point you really sure how well? because if you're applying for the same element, we used to be didn't we committing all these crimes to actually to be restored and i don't who people are single. this is what is right to have the probably support for sponsible, from restoring people before they used to be part of the killing machine or sep, i think we need to have a credible force which is being rescued by the people. so they come, people can't get but i'm sure that that particular i think that's the point and

that i can do anything i can, i don't see any, any time that we're going to go back to that point. ok again, do you think that or is the possibility of a democratic election anytime soon? i guess, i mean to respond to what to do with him. i mean, in order, in order to put him into peace agreement, printed up people in position, there's no doubt about that. i mean, this is an emotional kind of argument, which some people say will say that are the leaders they run for or positions. if you go back to the economy to speak on behalf of the rest, by the time i speak on behalf of those well being in was in the agreement. if you look it up and ask people, how many schools that are built, how many health center stablish, how many police units we have, we have, we have established. so we tell you, i mean, and the report on that, the only reason why that has not be so effectively it doesn't appeal in the media

simply because of the current situation in the region. us democracy, sponsor and i believe, i mean, you know, the country right now it is full, right? because we are right on 3 unit b is not possible and it fits a consensus on, on the move brought the program to the country. but we believe that these have some sort of, i mean, a consensus by $60.00 to $70.00 or 80 percent of, of the political parties and, and, and see the societies on a program for governing the transition. and it's not very difficult to, to, to, to does anyone that, but the way i see it right now is the international community. so it's not helping in this respect. they are actually dis,

my own believe that those who are involved from the community in, in providing support to the 70 to get all over the program that they're facing. know if in fact ticket your nissan, i think they're both still in groups and that, that does not help the company transform into any kind of normal kinetic system. i can just go back to the, for the as a mode. they mention yet quickly. what's important asked one of the most important issues that affect these or is there a unit issue, you know, what's going on in libya? i mean, it's almost, i mean, the, the fight fighting word on because such and maybe a number of that for that for a bit. yeah. fighting challenges, facing a little progress center african republic does not have. i mean know

that many thing they said throughout the region there is a war going over there, usually very little they go in and out of for into living countries and they being and they're both in been within the board. so i think the issue of that when you know that there is the need that the international community should also have you that we now see a rush and french companies moving over in that region center africa. and anita and that's a lot of negative effects on security to induct otherwise, have you touched on that a little earlier about the international interest? and i think in 2006 it was when george clooney went to dan 4. and i guess put the conflict on the world stage, do you think that actually helped or hindered? because it seems like the situation didn't get much better in the years after that

to this i personally think it has hindered for many reasons because people became a focus on what is happening and what we are in washington. and even the people on that for we're actually elated by recent, told that the cover is going to come and the americans are great to send the troops and do what they did in iraq and remove a machine. and then for those people in that way they see fantasy and i would add that may be a little bit different. who is have me that in fact, yes, the military option taken by the rebellion had in house

and a security in house the poverty and destruction of the people. yes, of course we blamed that gene are having over reacted, but the rebel with themselves. jenny has said they have also committed atrocities. sometimes again, if the own members buy in fighting they have also fragmented into smaller and smaller rival and land mortgage. and this is to an issue. and now regarding the issue to me, i see the people who are blocking consensus are minority in this afternoon that the hard liners and the freedom and the movement have been always has been kind of our bidding,

which i can imagine. and we as, as observed, was, have told him, from the, in writing, in the early period, this extra them is me going to lead to more damage and destruction. and they allow themselves suffering from that. they are the ones who supported different forces and they are the ones who support behind and are the ones who will have that if used to have consent abroad. the consensus now they, they, they cannot now the international community is not going to help sudan, if so then doesn't help itself. have to be a democratic government. and they have to be some, some positive interaction between the people. down for the that i think to me, i mean, i know you've worked extensively with humanitarian groups and on human and civil

rights, almost humanitarian labor. what to the people, those display people need now from, from within sudan, but also from the international community. i think up people the support income to me, but this is not an option. i think i said 8040 people are what they need security. and also i did think of new stuff in many lounge with displacing indigenous group within that area. that security that need to be addressed. so people come up to re please i think that we need but very little support so they can rebuild the life again. but i think that, but that is not the pin i actually we know of the government or even the peace agreement is not bad because we clearly from being know and we do, i don't think there priority. and i think i understand that, you know,

people cannot rely on whatever i think that have to stop because that the nation community will have a fatigue for my bank. we need to start presenting for these 4 people to well, but i totally agree with the army of all the money if it have have to happen. otherwise will not have kitty. i think that's a problem, but piece on security is but putting for this w peach for, you know, not only for that and the, even the reasoning. and guess who would and will become actually contribute to any sort of actually and the receiving end of the leave continues that we can offer to rebuild not also to start to get to just before we have to go. i mean, people towel has changed things before. do you think that is the only way to make lasting change from here on out? well, i think, i mean, what,

let me just answer the question that you plan on, on the international, on the international community. i mean there are 2 tracks, i mean the other is the group and i do believe i agree with that. the advocacy group in fact encourages it's a, it's a moment to increase the pressure on, on the surveillance in that for. and the conversion was so that it has affected the work groups as far as the supervision and 40 concerned priority number one is to enable the re fi. and the idea is to go back to the areas of oregon. and that could only happen if there's a serious disarmament of people in my program in that for without this amendment program, there is no way that i think and the issue that i'm very much concerned with is,

i mean the government couldn't do that. why they don't want to do that is the question that we need to do. the government has the combustor all they have the ability to do eat and i don't see any any program or someone may end up. or we may probably say, because we don't have a government right now. we don't have a credit was government in, in, in, in capital. but that is not an unexcused feeling is taken place in the day and have just come back from the way it was. well, for months or so and visited it is of companies where people lost their lives, some people out there. and by the way, the idp, now me is not private. number one, they then have become a producer. but the question is, when they go back on eating the seasonal flow rameses a full,

slimy that mean like that. yeah. that be thought to get the and that hasn't been done meeting and this is where the government you keep it. i and this may be shonda, so what pos beyond the armed forces on the security default. ok. unfortunately we're going to have to leave it there. thank you. to all of our guests. alto ghani, c. c of de la hob, alef, indian ha fees. mohammed. thank you for being on inside story today and thank you to for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at a j inside story from may till mccrae and the entire team here. and uh huh. bye for now. ah

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. setting the agenda for tomorrow's discussions. i don't believe that i think in, in a society that isn't willing to kill international filmmakers and world class journalists, bring programs to inform and inspire. you need to have a media ensuring that voices are heard. are now to sierra ah hello, i'm darn jordan and dough. with a quick reminder of the top stories here on al jazeera and israeli american has been shot dead at a highway near the city of jericho. in the occupied west bank, the shooting comes as israel deployed hundreds of additional soldiers to the area, offer an escalation and balance on sunday. sir o'hara as more from the occupied west bank.