carol, she is still warm, about 8 above no, everywhere else is back where it should be helped. but any temporarily. i suspect that increasing cloud and charity weather coming in from the west. ah ah, this was wrong to keep children away from the appearance and hurt them into a school against their will. there was no mother, no father figures. they put us in the big playroom and we certainly looked after ourselves. i don't remember the children's names. i'll never forget christ. canada's dark secret announce is era g. 20 foreign ministers meet in india, the gathering, overshadowed by the war nuclear country wanted to talk more about other global challenges. so this is summit, find any solution or just highlights deepening to vision. this is insightful.

ah and welcome to the program. i'm nick log foreign ministers from a group of the world's largest economies. the g. 20 be meeting you, denny, with india, holding the presidency this year is host prime minister and our end remedy was hoping to set the agenda on issues such as global poverty and climate change. but he'll be, have been disappointed. the war ukraine dominated the gathering and highlighted deep divisions. so what chance for progress we discuss your this and more with, i guess in a few moments, the 1st probably metallic reports from new delhi, on india's approach to the g 20 presidency. these are flags of the was largest economies. delegates of g 20 nations are meeting in india through the year. ending

with that final summit off were leaders in september on the agenda. pressing global challenges, climate change, high inflation and food security. but it is the war in ukraine that remains the dominant team and risk between nations over this issue is growing. the meeting of finance ministers in the city of bengal ended without a joint statement. after china and russia opposed any mention of the war in that state, and the meeting of foreign ministers here in new delhi has also been tense u. s. and germany have criticized china for sending weapons to russia. and there have been difficult conversations around extending that deal that allows export or grades from ukraine. all of this has put the spot like on india, the president and horse, and it's diplomatic. have prime minister marines remotely has urge nations to find common ground on other global issues like climate change. new delhi fees is g,

20 presidency as an opportunity to project itself. as the voice of the global south . it has walked a diplomatic tightrope on the ukraine issue, balancing it's friendship with last cow and washington. the question is, can india do what indonesia did last year when it ended it's g 20 presidency with that body declaration. it is a tall order, but it would help prime minister in the range load is foreign policy and domestic standing for inside story and partnering with the new delhi. ah, okay, let's take this on joined by i guess. suppose up in the u. k. in london, it's vicky price chief economic adviser at the center for economics and business research in oxford is nikita suit, who is professor politics the politics of development at the university of oxford and also in london. is chris with the chief executive officer of macro advisory and

independent global advisory firm? welcome to all of you, great to have you had to have this important discussion. so indicator. first of all, at 1st, how important an event was this for a prime minister modi for his domestic audience domestically? the g 20 presidency is very important for prime minister more be for india, that bill boards no hailing and the 20 president all across the country. you cannot miss it on these boards index projecting itself as a visual google or a leader of the world and won't be of course you noise on all those posters as well . all of this is important for me would be because india goes to the polls in 2024 . so next would be would like the momentum from the g d and his projection of

himself or the stamps, to carry him into his office board for the international standing of india and for the domestic or do this is a very important moment or a good for him to be seen as a statesman on the global stage. i guess it indicates it is one more thing. so he would have liked this to been all about his agenda as opposed to what it became, the born ukraine. absolutely. which is why the foreign minister of india and mister lloyd, the, and major services to india being the land of gandhi, of the book. who you know, talk to us to agree. even if you disagree on many things to have common ground to come to consensus. and that's very much speaking to the constant backdrop of the g 20 summit, which is of course, the events and you korean and russia. so he noted like this to play out very

differently. of course, of course, vicky if i may come to use a premise or maybe hide his agenda, you know, the champion of the global se, the se. but the ukraine was always going to be the focus a given. the divisions are off. absolutely, and we expected that to happen. mean nevertheless, there has been considerable discussion and other things as well. i mean the focus is we know with this g 2 at the g, 20 meeting was to talk about cooperation in particular. so multilateralism because of course we've seen a lot to that disappear, tearing, not just the coven period, but also a since the war in ukraine, through security in all this issues and climate change to which affect, particularly the developing countries. and the ones of course that nobody wants to focus on. so, so their discussion is there, but whether in fact there is any conclusion and can come because we have to wait to

see what may be happening when there is a some it late wrong. but that is one of the concerns, of course, that we're talking about is what it means for the developing south. if you like with a global south, is it's pretty worrying. fact looking ahead. this is vicky, this is difficult balancing out to massage isn't there because the bottom line is that india cannot afford to like either russia or, or the west now. absolutely, and, and of course, we've seen that india has not been willing to condemn what russia has been doing. and there is considerable concern that you know, all the sanctions that have been embarrassed by the west on, on russia may not be working mainly because the number of countries are continuing to operate or perhaps even pass goods through their own borders to russia rather than the functions of course, working the way that they were meant to be. and there is also concerned that quite a lot of the sales of things that russia cannot sell such as oil to the west. and

now going to places like and gas going to places like india and others. so there is a bit of a split that's happening. so we talking about multilateralism. but actually what's been happening in the last year or so has moved us further away from that. and i think if there were any chances of the g 20 will be focusing on that. but perhaps with no d in charge of discipline, india in charge of $220.00 that may not happen. chris will, let's take the key point on this lack of condemnation from india, of russia's invasion of ukraine, and the fact that it, by its oil at a discounted price and then sells it on how much of an issue is that it in multilateral is much of an issue is that as far as in other partners are concerned, you know, potentially it is a major issue because at the core you can see what rushes doing,

selling oil in particular at a discounts to countries like india. it is shifting economic competitiveness and certainly in energy hungry industries, from europe to countries like india to asia. we have some examples, b s f course, a big german chemical manufacturer saying that they are closing down operations in germany because of the creasing cost of energy. there are likely to reopen in india or maybe turkey or other countries. and one of the reasons is of course, they are getting cheap energy from, from, from russia. so yeah, i think the longer this goes on, more of this kind of divide and rising political level, we see. but also of course, well, moscow has never so specifically asked for political support from countries like india or the other asian countries even in turkey, is acquiring. that's kind of, i want say, support,

but lack of common condemnation. maybe the fact the abstain that the votes of the u . n. is, is getting the position because it is providing these kind of economic advantages. and the rich cheap energy, cheap oil she called and eventually cheap gas. so indirectly, russia is able to rely on this quasi support, certainly lack of condemnation from those countries at a time when western economies are feeling more and more pressure, economic pressure, big because of that, the effect of the war. so i think this is always going to come to a head this year. it was always going to come to ahead. the g 20 summit in september. and i think between what happens now between now and say, december, so much is going to be very critical as to what the world will look like in terms of this device. where will we get a device? are, will there be some common ground, you know, to indicate when modi says multry,

multilateralism is in crisis is not wrong, is a yes. so more be you know, loves to have it in there was prime minister javan nan, who was from the opposition of the current opposition congress, spotty. but india and rights from independence in 1947 has been the cause of non alignment. this was of course, in the shadow of the cold war where india and the newly independent countries like indonesia or egypt, you know, wanted to be non aligned and not with i the 1st street and so called 1st was led by the us. or the 2nd world led by the, the ussr, i'm in the way in and many loose out countries are continuing in the tradition. saying the world is now very discerned, does not the unique world where the us and the western block can, you know,

set the agenda for us. and therefore we want reform of major global institutions like the u. n. and we want to be multi left to people know world. so you know, that's, that's a good assistant line. india has had this moment is known this. i wonder vicky when we talk about non alignment as the key to just alluded to that in fact, india is aligned to russia, isn't it in the sense that it is, it is taking its oil, which is coming at a cheaper price because of the war. so, you know, it's basically supporting the war effort. you could argue, well, it's interesting because that is happening on the one hand in the other. what you're saying is that quite other countries in the west are trying to have close and trade ties with india, maybe to reaction, but the u. k. is talking about it more europe is talking about it more. so i think

there are active efforts to reintegrate. if you like india in the west and all, but if that is at all possible, and india's interest must lie in being able to export and do business and get on investment from the west. so you'd imagine that you knew that happening in parallel, if you like, maybe acting as a counterbalance to the other tendencies that we have seen recently towards russia . when mowdy says vicky that we should not allow issues, we cannot resolve together to come in the way of those that we can do wonder what issues are all that can be resolved in the current climate. well, there is quite a lot going on right now on the trade front already mentioned, of course, was happening in terms of trying to have close ties within the anyway. but there are issues in terms of various countries. i'm some big countries like the u. s. in a looking at sort of having a competitive advantage in the climate change front. so with a lot of subsidies for businesses, in fact,

developing on innovating in that area on the u. s. itself so on, on the grounds rather than doing things elsewhere. so you're already seeing a move of production, you know, we, we heard earlier about moves to as indian chief already, but also in terms of subsidize that exist them going to the u. s. as well. so we've seen that happening in europe and europe is reacting by doing something similar itself, or at least talking about it. so there is an issue about what can the institutions do to ensure this multilateralism, if you like, it is maintained and the w t o itself is institution that people have talked about for quite some time in terms of needing reform. it seemed to be getting a few more teeth recently, but those are aspects in terms of international competitiveness and any unfair practices, if those can be deemed to be that, that those institutions should be looking at to ensure that at least there is no

both in terms of investment and trade in their moves which will help the world economy rather than just end up in silence of a new subsidized nations that can afford to do so, leaving lots of others disadvantage. so they're, all of those issues i think can be discussed and perhaps should be discussed. and again, chris, the focus on the grey wars is taking attention away from those crucial issues of the we've talked about of the global self it's that's the focus for insecurity climate change. so for yeah, it certainly is taking away from, from those issues. but it is brought back onto the table, other issues, and we talk about the, you know, the, like the, the, the resentment in developing economies in asian economies ticker over the fact that's when the time it debates kind of really gained ground of grain come promise a few years ago, there was a great deal of resentment in common countries in asia to the west, which had,

you know, kind of use or disregard the climate to develop their own economies to, to industrialize and become great economic powers. they were now preaching to asian and to developing economies that were on the further down the process. and, you know, we can see that the russia highlighting, if you like, the, what is referred to as the dominance of the west of the u. s. and biggest uses like the us and world bank and i, m f and others. this whole debate over, you know, they, the kind of what should be the relationship between developing economies in asia and the developed economies in the west. there needs to be a better balance, so if you like while specific discussions about how to reduce carbon emissions and specific issues about climate have taken a back seat. the whole question of, of equity and of kind of

a balance relationship between west and developing east is very much back on the table and, and the war in ukraine. and the, what russia has been saying about the kind of the western kind of influences. well, i think there's about the samples back on these issues back on to table and we're not careful. then i think the end result will be a much greater device between east and west, rather than you know, bringing both sides closer together. do you agree with vicki? that could lead to a much greater device. it could, and i think one has to work very hard to ensure that that doesn't happen. and of course, but it does require is quite a lot of transfer of resources from the west to those countries that now need a lot more support in order to adapt to climate change and also not lose out if you like. and we know that there are various reasons the world which will be particularly affected with temperatures going up so that there is

a need to do that. they've been pledges. of course, a number of times of the g 20 itself sort of i has been very behind on those suggestions, but the money hasn't quite made it yet. so i think we need to, to push a lot harder in that area so. so there is no doubt that there is a lot that the west needs to do to satisfy that balance, which we absolutely need to see happen in the future. otherwise, i think we will be spitting up. and of course, the spheres of influence were there for also be such that you know, the world will be much more difficult to control in terms of progress in that area to control. yeah. in terms of progress, it's very difficult to make any progress on all the levels that we've been talking about. while this war goes, all is given the division that it's created. i'm afraid so. so, i mean, obviously we all can keep in fingers crossed that it could be some resolution, but if anything, with looking at more escalation, i mean underneath that though, we have to bear in mind that there are some good news for the world economy as

a whole. and, and that includes the fact that in fact, energy prices have been coming down and gas prices, in particular food prices, which of course have been particularly worrying for the developing world are also coming down. i have come down for the last 10 months or whether they've been reflective yet in terms of what people are paying on the ground is a different issue. so, so there are some, some good news in the world economy is likely to do better than had been originally anticipated for 2023. but for the developing countries in particular, what is also of course a concern is that partly to trying to support their, their own populations through the health care as we had. and also get the kind of moving again, they have been boring more so again, thinking about what the world institutions could do. international institutions could do world bank, i'm math and so on. the support that needs to be given has to be significant so that we don't end up with loads of countries defaulting. been signs of that course

already happening so, so there is a lot that can be done despite you know that there still isn't the conflict on the war still going on in ukraine. the case was still taken. this is how do you think, where we're at right now. in 2023 could shake the world or the could, could perhaps lead to reform of institutions. an interesting $1000000.00 question like the others because have centers while the g. d should have climate change of the center if it's agenda and not be overshadowed by the water. the has been in the last g, 20 round, which indonesia, which happened in indonesia and indonesia residency. the 3 months on climate change, despite the ukraine war already being 5 months in the us, in particular, signed up with much fence just energy transition partnership agreement

was something like $20000000000.00 with indonesia. but you know, and that's going to be seen as progress and something that you would look forward to as well. but when you're stopped really looking into these mechanisms, much of those, you know, $20000000000.00 is in the form of that style. and it does very much in competition with chinese investments in indonesia and their climate change. so they're the ones that are not you've vaccines, public climate change where the build this out and we're not the, the more bonds to gone to me. it should be working to get the info around like the g 20. you know, those need to be on the much more equal footing than what we have seen so far. so we can hope that the print, the advance is these critical agenda. but you know,

that's a big question mark. chris, do want to come in a yeah, i was just thinking that as this and to, to is a to speakers that, you know, this, the summit in timber is going to be hugely critical. and we have become usage, each fancy, perhaps focusing on major issues like climate and poverty. but really know it's become much for about almost hit but it's simplicity by west versus east . i mean, this, this, this, this, this fracture that you can talk about between the developed economies in the west and the developing economies, mainly mainly in the east. and i think this is a huge issue now. accelerators investigated because of the war. of course the president is continuing to or fuel certainly on to that that, that fire specifically on this device. and if we, if we do not get some sort of resolution, if we don't step back from this increasing pressure or gap in september,

it is going to get wider because remember, the next to g twenties will be also be in bricks. countries in the next year with the brazil, the year after the south africa. so if you like the bricks, countries now have control over g 20 and we end this so much in september with a much greater divide or more of your device between developing and develop nations . then i fear that gap is going to get wider and wider under the next 2 g, 20 sure chips because they are bricks. countries. what exactly that agenda of looking to make make, make the world kind of a more more balance. so i think they, for me, they the, the key points of the summit. it's timber, unfortunately won't be you know, what the president body would have liked the outside. it will be parked the hopefully be some progress on maybe

a dent flying away force in ukraine to the east and the sizing. but i think the critical one would be to prevent this more obvious division between developing and the developed world, which you say can only get worse if it's not addressed this summit. ok vicki, as we said here, it's easy for us to say if we don't do this and we need to do that. so what will it take when we get to september to the may g 20 summit to achieve what chris is talking about? because you know it's, it's a part of the sky at the moment. well, we're probably still going to have the war ukraine going on. and now people are expecting to last for years. so i'm afraid that's going to dominate whether we like it or not. but it will require a huge amount between now and september of diplomacy from the west and lots of discussions and ensuring also that some of those institutions that we've been talking about do the right thing if you like, and support the countries because there is a serious concern that you know,

the debt levels as they are going to have problems ahead. and if there isn't any guarantee or at least go to satisfaction on the climate change issue, then that will also be a cause for concern. and then i think the west will kind of difficult to ensure that the global south, if you like, stays with it. nikita at this time of bitter global division could india position itself as a potential mediator between the west and moscow using its leverage to do that. i'm sure is imagining itself in that position as the media lead a global south country. it's not just on them in the world which recently overtook it's on the colonial power, the u. k. and you know, is now ahead in terms of talk to you to be, but didn't get, must also look inside. so you know, that is the external posturing and the branding and then the internal constriction

of democracy in opposition does being put in june, student activists, journalists being put in jail, good government institutions, all sorts of holes court cases. so while india is restricting its own democracy, it will be very hypocritical, often to post as you know, great one the on the international stage. so it, even though it has a very good argument for multilateralism understanding consensus, but it also has to walk the dock internally. ok, and chris as we come to the end of the program, we've already mentioned china and policy. what about china's role in all of this also did not support the g 20 joint declaration that we had today. yeah, i think we're entering an interesting phase. as you mentioned in your news,

reesa weeks, the chinese foreign minister was, was in europe as well as in moscow. a few weeks ago, talking about chinese proposals for ending the war. we know that the present, she's planning to come to europe and to, to russia. sometime in q 2, we don't know yet. so the chinese definitely kind of stepped up in terms of, of becoming a participant or an actor in, in trying to resolve the conflict. and i think that's what it will require and i don't want to be sound like a unreasonable optimist. but i think the g 20, it offers at least some opportunity for, for, for some progress in at least coming to as some sort of a ceasefire. and it seems almost ridiculous to imagine that right now, what's happening every day. but if you like, the west has become, you know, so supportive and so therefore it's so then to fight with ukraine. moscow therefore,

is not going to engage with the west directly in terms of how to, to end this conflict, or even how to start the end of the conflict. ok? china can do it on its own because jerry, it's relationship with us is broken and breaking. but therefore, i actually have looking at the g 20 c. is there an opportunity for the g 20 to bring together all these different forces? because i personally believe from what i hear in moscow. big courses are actually government would like this to end, but they need an external intervention because they won't do it on their own. all right, well, have to leave it. i do appreciate it. thanks so much to all of our guests to vicki price nikki, to suit and chris, thanks very much indeed. and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again anytime by just visiting our website, algebra dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page that facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is

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