to into in the right of the next style. so some what a to show us over to war said the plains as we go through the next hour. so, and still hot in pakistan. ah, the latest news as it break. so trump is still the favorite here among the grass roots and in many of the pulled the be the republican presidential nominee with detail coverage fire has swung the fog light back on the struggle based on daily basis by everyone here from around the world. fire that and go to the 1st to cause of this trade was so hot. it may have cremated the victims exactly where they were killed. the biggest process, yes, against benjamin netanyahu is far right government and it's plans to overhaul the judiciary. along with the iran saudi deal, he's facing mounting problems at home and abroad. but how serious is, is whales political crisis?

this is inside story. ah, hello, welcome to the program. i'm adrian finnegan. huge crowds demonstrated in israel on saturday night for the 10th week running with some estimate saying that as many as half a 1000000 people turning out against benjamin netanyahu government at its plans to reduce the power of the supreme court. the new legislation would give parliament the power to override court rulings allow politicians to appoint judges and prevent judicial review of the basic laws that serve as israel's de facto constitution. fort supporters of netanyahu, it is far right allies. the policy represents a necessary cub on activist judges, but it's caused dismay at opposition within his rails political and military

establishment, as well as bringing hundreds of thousands on to the streets. i missed a demonstration to sound my voice against the ship. the bear stub this year in the name of the so called low judge called reform. it's not the judge, colorful. it's a revolution making is read, go to full dictatorship. and i want to say a democracy for my kids, for my grandson. it will be here because it is a democracy, country and it's my stays with if you'll give that by the people and then you can expect them just against boy. so

don't, but obviously, i mean if we were i will minutes. i and i would be very worried that someone is going to follow back in the bass, and they call your rights same as a the guys and the community. and this is the executive. it doesn't want to be, we are protesting because if not it's, it's like compliance and we will never agree to have a fee abolish in this country. it's really important that we raise awareness all around the world of not just in israel, but all over the world. if anyone tries to do what they're trying to do, you, people will go out and demonstrate it's really important. and the concern extends beyond the protest. us on the straight stays early other countries president attack the planned cups on the judiciary as a threat to the countries political fabric. we close hockey gosh shinny don k at bava. the entirety of the legislation that's being currently discussed in the committee needs to be taken off the table and faster. if it is erroneous,

it is aggressive and it undermines our democratic foundation. miss hale, most of our law i o. d ali came, are you all parties of the house bear the responsibility? the choice is one of either a disaster or a solution, i'm sure, but that will begin our discussion with our guests in just a moment. but 1st im ron carne reports from tel aviv. the o guys is the protest. say there are about 500000 people in various different places. places like heifer tel aviv wish to re slumped though out on the streets. that's out of a population of about 9500000. so it's a significant chunk of the people that were out on the streets that's putting the government under a tremendous amount of stress. now the government for weeks has referred to the protesters as anna case on such these demonstration in television. i saw people with pratt placards with effectively that resume on a placard saying, i served in these really ami. i've been

a teacher for 35 years. and yet they call me an anarchist. however, for all of those types of slogans were all the public political slogans. the vast, overwhelming majority of people were carrying the israeli flag. this is a nationalistic demonstration. the people are worried that democracy is under threats. had the digital reform bill will give the connect at the parliament, the power to overturn some supreme court decisions. and that's what's driving these protests and they are getting bigger and bigger every week. now that's worrying the government because if the government start seeing the seep into their base, that's very concerning for them. because remember, benjamin netanyahu and his far right coalition have a very strong base at this asylum. majority of people that support this government because they think it's an incredibly strong government. now benjamin netanyahu can still past this bill. he has a majority in parliament is 120 seats. he has 61 of those. so for coalition holds,

he will be able to pass. the bill, however, is really present. isaac hertzog is looking for a compromise. he's looking to tone down some aspects of the bill and he's reaching out to people to try and be able to do that. whether he succeeds or not, that's a matter of internal internal israeli politics, but there is more pressure on benjamin netanyahu as well. political satirist suggests the one of the reasons he spending each weekend abroad. he was in italy last weekend. ah, there's room, as he might be going to berlin this weekend, is that that's the only way he can get some respite from the protesters and the anger. he faces out in the streets here in israel, but there's something else as well. the saudi iran resumption of diplomatic ties. he opposition or using that to attack pres, our prime minister benjamin netanyahu saying this was a failure of diplomacy on his part. and that this shows that israel is isolated in

the world because the, the makeup of this current, israeli government, whatever the truth of that it is being used to attack the prime minister and his coalition. but the prime minister is a tough guy, and he has this majority, like i say, of seats in parliament. so if he wants to pass this bill, he will try every trick in the book to make sure it will pass whether it passes in the form he wants. that's now up for discussion. emron con, out is era for inside story. ah, lots to discuss. let's bring in our guests for today's program from tel aviv were joined by gideon levy porter and columnist at hot it's newspaper in haifa. sally albert podcast host and member of the leadership at standing together. the largest jewish arab grassroot movements in israel and in jerusalem is gill hoffman, executive director of honest reporting,

which combats what it sees as anti israel bias and international media. gillis, a former chief, political correspondent at the jerusalem post will come to you all. gideon let stuff with you. well known and is ready, politician to polyphony, says that the protest and not just about judicial reform, it's about identity. it's about what israel is. it's a battle for the soul of the country as a democracy. is she right? it or it is, as we heard from one of the protest us in the set up their netanyahu becoming a dictator. these right. and in the same time that the neo is not yet becoming the states are, but then during lent me frame meeting their own framework. we are dealing who's a very impressive wave of this. i'm t dictator, she grow the mocker. see in a bothered state. let's remember this before we get into the subject. by the end of

the day, it's about democracy to the jew, only to the jews, and the teasing, pressing the destruction, it is all 4. i totally a supporting been encouraging even being excited about it. but we should know for going for a moment or this is happening when a party is still here and has no intention to go. and he's even not mentioned in this protest. now beg to question. yes, it is about the identity. the identity of de leads of this country that entity then leads of this country, the societies toner and under the cover or a legal argument. there is much more under the service, but in the same time, i wouldn't say that the neo is at the state. oh, he's about to become a dictator, but he's been very tutors which might serve in. 1 1 day to become world

sally, i saw you nodding in agreement that you may want to comment on what get in was was saying. organizers claimed that the latest protests were the biggest in israeli history. there clearly, many people opposed to the government's judicial reform plans. but all they in the majority in israeli society is their a silent majority who are actually in favor of what the government is planning to do. i'm not sure i disagree with the good the own i do. i think that the current and protest the way that it was led and the reason why it's so successful. and so loud is because it's leaders are the ones who are fighting it for their and for their privileges in many ways and for their identity. and for how they see, you know, they have a very strong ownership over is read. because if we see who these people are, they are, you know, middle class plus veterans. asking ozzy from the center live

a very strong sense of ownership over over a, you know, israel as, as a jewish state. um, so i don't think i, i disagree with him. i do think that the protests as they are right now, it, you know, are, are becoming wider in coalition. we are seeing more and more protests that are getting really large in the peripheries with a more diverse ed ed participation. and we are seeing some very, very little at participation of palestinians as citizens of israel. however, it is becoming a more visible am. and obviously i do think that we have is seen some kind of shift, at least in, in some parts of the protests that are talking about the connection between a, you know, or the dissonance, let's say, between protecting and the democracy,

the israeli democracy and, and, and instead of that, really talking about redefining a democracy and what that means really at which is ending the occupation and redefining that the mac, that the democracy in the supreme court in a way that doesn't maintain an apartheid system. and so i don't disagree with that with the get the on. i do think there is a, a positive shift to not sufficient, but definitely a positive gill hoffman opposition leader yale. or pete says the government's focused only on crushing israeli democracy. and why does the government insist that these reforms are necessary? perhaps you could explain it to us to quote rain in the unchecked an unbalanced powers of, of judges. do judges in israel have too much power? are they making decisions that go against the national interest? ok. so 1st of all, my caveat is that i'm not here to defend or justify or take the side of these

really government and its policies. i can explain them and put them into context throughout the years of the supreme court of israel, there have been very few minorities represented in part because of the way the judges are chosen. they're chosen by a selection committee in which the judges and their allies in the bar association had a majority to choose their own successors. and to many of them were white. secular left wing people, mostly men, choosing more white, secular, left wing people. and one of the aims of the people who support these changes is to make the supreme court more diverse to have the members of kinessa choose them. whether the coalition really right wing or left wing at the time and have it better reflect that the people of israel who are, are among the most diverse people in the entire world. there is no attempt to involve whether this would help arabs or not help arabs. that's not an issue that's

being discussed. unlike what my counterpart said. and they do believe that will strengthen democracy and the rule of law. if instead of having elected officials that are supreme court judges make decisions, that the people will have more of a say. and what the protests have proven is that israeli democracy is actually very strong after having 5 elections in 3 and a half years that we're about personality politics about nathan. yeah. here you have people taking to the streets because they care about the future of israeli democracy. and we'll see if compromises will be made there meetings taking place right now. and hopefully they can rain in the consensus on, on what can still be changed to satisfy all sides. get in how, how much of this have to do with, with religion is fairly right. she. she noted that this perhaps is a battle between the classes, perhaps and in israel. to what extent does your background your economic

circumstances and how religious you are decide where you stand on this issue. religion would be the 2nd though, this identification before these it would be your ethnic identification and then being a part of the lead or being from the lower classes, being jewish or not jewish, and only then come religion. yes, there is a division according to religion, namely between the sexual and their religious. the way, why is this actually sees the liberal? think you have seen that too much is in both of them in terms of religion. israeli is by far the most religious country in the western world. so many things that people come from that which i can't believe that they see from not having a public transportation on southern thing to the fact that i cannot marry my

years when you should girlfriend. it is right because she's the jewish things which i've heard in any secular democracy. but this is not the front of the argument right now. as i say, the main thing is now we didn't mentioned the agent when it's an yo, as, as, as something which motivates many of the book. this does even though they won't say, but that the neo became the most hated. and the most beloved. 1 is really petition ever i think, and those who hate him are ready to anything to get rid of him. that's. that's in the front of the struggle. and then they have the legal question, are those legislations are really dangerous in the eyes of the protest. those and by the end of the day they won't, they are desiring no to lose their dominance. it's about the dominance of their skin as the elite in this country. when this supreme court was almost that it asked

outpost in each dash, can i see? then a handle it and then dominated their fight. think now not to lose the last the last outpost. let's talk a little about netanyahu and, and his motives here sally, he came back to power one on trial for corruption, formed an alliance with an extreme ultra nationalist group who a previously on the, on the fringes of politics. is all of this, perhaps a calculated attempt by him to avoid the consequences of his trial? does he genuine believe, genuinely believing in what he's doing? is it right or, or is this a political back file? i believe it's the latter. it to be honest, i don't think it even as an yahoo a has a and a really wanted you know, the plans to be exactly the way they are. i don't think that he would have conducted them the way they are at right now,

and would have avoided this at the said resistance and this opposition to strong opposition, which is, you know, from the people what we are saying that it's obviously led by the elite but let's be honest, this is a very, very powerful, loud historic opposition. and on these are eli government, one that we haven't seen before. so i do think that a, you know, been enough to now would have avoided that. and should he had the option? i don't think it has to do with his a court as much with his trial. and i do think there would have, he would have found other ways that there are many experts that would have found other ways to, to, for him to avoid a trial. it's definitely a back fire in many ways. and, and i do think that said, it's something he is in a little bit of a pickle, i would say, absolutely. go, would you, would you agree with that?

the government, pressing ahead with the plan in spite of these, these processes, can it survive? willis ultimately lead to the collapse of the coalition. how long before will be rising netanyahu's political obituaries? again, bearing in mind that it was that it was quick to do so. the last time i covered politics for 24 years for the jerusalem post. and i wrote and now was a bit wary many, many times and it was proven wrong. right now, it's really his justice minister that's pushing this forward. these are ideological issues that he your rib levine as care developed for a very long time. and nathan, ya perhaps initially empowered him to do it and perhaps revenge against the legal establishment that was prosecuting him. was part of that motivation. but now it's taken a life of its own and it's now as himself been prevented from dealing with it by the attorney general will see right now there's pressure on moderate elements

within the liquid party. if you have 4 or 5 members of connected inside that we could who say this has gone too far, then perhaps that wouldn't pass into law. but i still think that there's going to be a compromise that what's past so far. early preliminary readings that don't pass it into law, there is still a 3 weeks before the leaves on its pass over recess and this is crunch time. and that's why the president has gotten into high gear in putting forth his own proposal. that presumably would be what would be passed in the kinetic gideon is israel's democracy, broken with a succession of fragile coalitions propped up by a myriad of smaller, sometimes extreme parties to israel as entire system of democracy. do you think need, i know the whole is to insist that the end of that state cannot be a democracy. is fe bids rulers over 5000000 people who has no rights

whatsoever. no citizenship, nothing can define this democracy. how can we calling to them? of course, you know, i mean, really a, this semester a must come, please, and quoting is only democracy as long as know who based was temporary. you who quoting a democracy was a military occupation, but after 55 years, what about the 5000000 people who has no rights? they, we don't count them. we don't see them there in boston of israel, date of great into israel, and i read a review. so if any discussion about a, the democracy in israel, like i want to accept the discussion in south africa, about the democratic procedures among the whites. this is really outrages. having said these, i still think that these were 40 jewish citizens ease in democracy. the risks out

there, the correct sat there, but i'm not a fool the say, a proclivity descriptions that is already turning to i'm gary. turn key. oh god forbid. even russia no to you. we are the sparse but not yet. ok, sally, would you agree with her serious is as political crisis up for i would like to israel. yeah. please. and you know, even as a phyllis indian activists are here in israel, not because i disagree with that, you know, conceptually, obviously, i obviously agree with that. with gideon about said the fact that we can't call israel a democracy. but there is definitely democratic practices within a, you know, the $67.00 lines and the inside of israel in many ways limited for non jewish citizens, but definitely less limited for and for jewish citizens. and i do think it's also

less limited to many other marginalized groups. if we talk about of g b t q, right? if we talk about women, i do think there is a, it's, it's a little bit dangerous to come and, and the condition a, the protests right now add to or condition their legitimacy to talking about the occupation. we are obviously doing it all if we're putting all of our efforts into impacting the messaging and impacting a, the kind of a resistance that we want to see from inside. we do think it's an opportunity to build a new political current that can really re imagine a democracy and can challenge the current a democracy. and the way is the israeli jewish israeli public perceive it perceives it. i do think it's dangerous to completely dismiss it and talk about the dangerous and the threats of the currents overhauled on that. yes, limited and very flawed. a democracy that's within these read a do it on saudi arabia's. when i signed an agreement to mobilize to for ties on,

on friday, but that was a hammer blow. erin, i need to respond to what they would agree or remove ok released are pleased to go . absolutely. so. so 1st of all, you have to bring in palestinian politics into this, the past and authority that controls those millions of people has some 1000 records in the 990. they haven't had an election since january 2005 because of the weakness of their own democracy. it has nothing to do with israel. and that's what caused the boss administration to lose power in cities in the west bank where they're supposed to be doing the police thing. and because of that, or israel had no choice but to go in, in order to arrest what the terrorists it has to do with the weakness on the palestinian side and not in these railey side. israel is a democracy. it's not apartheid comparison. still apartheid or offensive to the south african black people are endured it. they wish they could have had black on their supreme court. yeah. we have arab judges in israel,

who convicted israeli president and prime minister is as far away from a part time. ok. okay, go, i know, i know the both gideon and sally shaking their heads, disagree, disagreeing with you, that were out of almost out of time. and that's not the issue that we're discussing here. go, how serious is this political crisis has it? as israel faced a political crisis of this magnitude before, is it the biggest threat to israel since its foundation? so we have had many crises in israel, politically and the period of the oslo accords in the withdrawal from gaza back in the 1950s when israel received reparations from germany after the holocaust in israel managed to make it through all those. and as you point out, there are distractions, and because of the fight being internal that's led to international issues like the fight against preventing the nuclear was ation of iran falling by the wayside. and

that is definitely something that puts his real security in jeopardy in the future . same question to you than, than gideon. i mentioned this, the round saudi arabia deal to normalize diplomatic ties, which must have been a hammer blow for the prime minister. some of israel, staunchest allies don't particularly like it's current government at the moment, will prefer to keep it at arm's length with problems mounting at home and abroad. how house out just how serious is this crisis? it is serious, but they as get a say the not the 1st serious crisis. again, they didn't mention the big crisis after the 73 war when the feeling cause that we are about to college. i, as i said, i don't see in those dramatic her own posing k colors,

but there is these a great challenge. it's my lean into a terrible legal and social crisis. but in my know so, so of the snow here reversible, we should not, there is the make good going. oh no. but you know, few weeks so brought this are not changing the story. they must me some more steps to be followed and then we will see, is it really a correct in the, in the basic of is read or is it one of those crises that seem so terrible when they had been? and then something happens and they are almost forgotten, leaving very, very few side. so it's too early to judge. ok that i'm afraid we must end our discussion. we're out of time many thanks. indeed, gideon levy sallie abbot and gill hoffman. thank you for watching. don't forget, you can see it again, the program again at any time by going to the website at al jazeera dot com for

further discussion. john is still our facebook page. dance of facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story, and you could join the conversation on twitter handle at a j inside story from the adrian finnegan and the team here though. hi, thanks for watching. we'll see you again. my phone. ah ah. and the dancing in boyhood is an important part of indian culture. it's no surprise and many people want to work in the industry. one doctor and one career side about

family expectations and cultural tradition, i guess the way now with the reality of working in i'm from the giving industry hollywood on, on from the else is there a london broker. fantastic to people in thoughtful conversation with no host and no limitation. it leads as a place of color. it's always a struggle. yeah, that would be much easier for me. it's my, it feels that white people part to go into and sing a song writer in. so carry other people, wait a minute, you get way down, you stop what you're doing and maybe one studio b unscripted on al jazeera. when the news breaks, families feel how full and they say they want to leave without getting their relatives out of the problem. when people need to be heard and the story told,

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