seeing some unusually wet weather chin, i sang some big down post, could see a little bit of localized flooding as a result so that you can see where the all the way up there into pakistan and the showers are set to continue as we go through the next few days, there's that heavy way which could cause flooding for chennai by the end of the week. ah, in a concert hole in baghdad. away from the conflict and tales from the war sectarian bond of sanctions, the rocky national symphony orchestra has full to perform classical and traditional arab music. in the face of all adversity, a 0 will tell it's challenging story. symphony for iraq on al jazeera, a decades long conflict in a region which with natural resources,

millions of people have been killed and east, and democratic republic of congo, and millions more have been displaced from this region ever find a lasting piece. this is inside story. ah hello there. welcome to the program. i'm laura kyle. these in democratic republic of congo has been in the state of conflict for more than 20 years. more than a 100 armed groups of fighting government and regional troops in the area. 5.6000000 civilians have been forced to flee the homes. the united nations security council team has just concluded a 3 day visit to the country. it called for a political solution to end the fighting. dozens of people were killed in the most recent attack by one main group called the allied democrats forces,

which is reportedly linked to iso and fights us from another major armed group. m $23.00 have been taking territory and inching closer to the regional capital goma. we'll get to our guests in just a moment. first, let's take a closer look at this region. resource rich democratic republic of congo is boarded by rwanda and uganda, which are both accused of backing armed groups fighting the congolese government. they, these are charges they deny. and $23.00 and the allied democratic forces are 2 of the most prominent armed groups in the area. while an 8000 people have been killed in the last 5 years. regional mediation efforts have failed to stop the conflict and some un troops. i've also been accused of killing civilians will begin our discussion in just a moment. first, malcolm web reports from nairobi and 23 as continued advancing in recent weeks. and it's effectively encircled the provincial capital of goma fighters news through the cc territory. tens of thousands of people have fled,

reporting the m $23.00 fighters of rounded up the villages and executed them clearing out the entire community to the now joining the already $800000.00 people . displaced by this conflict, and 23 is widely understood to be back by neighboring wonder. well, they were one that denies it. to the north, around the city of benny. thousands of civilians have been killed in the last week . the allied democratic forces adf is widely plain, as it has been for killing thousands of civilians in that area over the last 10 years. now, group that originate from neighboring uganda and the 1990 gun, the army pushed it into the forest. the beast and congo, where it in bay ever since. a recent and ongoing uganda military operation extensively the few and defeat the adf, hasn't stopped the violence against civilian regional peace efforts so far haven't

worked and 23 hasn't bade regional calls for fighters to withdraw. and disarm it has withdrawn from a couple of small towns and none of them as strategic. important. meanwhile, the east african regional forth also hasn't yet made any difference kenya and burn the have said troops other countries in the region to do to follow. but it's not clear if any of the true contributing countries have either the political will or the resources to actually fight and $23.00 or even rwanda in hong kong is due to whole presidential parliamentary elections at the end of the conflict in the eastern provinces may prevent polling. meanwhile on goes opposition. says that there are already massive irregularities with the voter registration process. malcolm web, the inside story. ah, let's bring in august now and in the eastern connolly city of goma. reagan may vary

a conflict analyst at a blue tele, as a company's research institute and johannesburg, stephanie walters, a senior research fellow, specializing in the great lakes region at the south african institute of international affairs. and in kancheta angel to conway, a tango the you and refugee agency ref, representative in d r. c. a very warm welcome to all of you, reagan, let's go to you 1st. you want that in go me at the latest reports, all that m 23 is advancing on that regional capital city. what's the situation? yes. didn't go out. there is a fear. i'm 63 and you turn the studio, but this has been ongoing for. busy the last 4 weeks now, so yes there is these are. 6 so there is an economy crisis because that gets a read on the north side into the west side. and you know,

i've said it's off the who and been there is rhonda. ringback side, so go my looks to be, you know, a place where they don't have access to a that is affecting god. this is trish and the city before has r a t n in the situation in our case which is a very close to go there is a fight there. so people are for their lives in columbia. is that the belief and goma that am $23.00? well over run the city. yes, i must show that they have been getting in the city, but the thing they have impressed in closing all that gets on the city and puts

bell government to position that they that we have to negotiate. to same situation in the city, which is one, but we just city who sent it. tell me what, what is it exactly that people are faring? are they faring m 23 themselves? are they ferrying the fighting more generally? so i think that you bought you none of us when you come to get and did you the city, everyone's going to see for the suppression planning and they did not know what you tell what was gression by right now and 23. busy and then one of the solution to, to make sure that the company is waiting be described in the new 40. some are both really accept

nicholas fish and dogs as well as about government has been saying that. ringback she had been they asked for some. busy entity free should both from the. busy i've been, they should have felt fine, but his then within a fairly fair beds and there is no e in the, in this got me that we have them that's just we're on the. busy so i think this is a challenge the crisis, but will certainly look more axes, failed efforts to stop the fighting a little later in the program. just for the moment angela want to focus on going on this particular area. it's a city of 1000000 people were talking about a loss of people here. the gates a close to the city,

the roads have been cut off. what's your concern for the people that? yes, thank you jennifer. yes, we deeply coached confirmed by the tone of the country on hundreds of persons. this conflict which had resumed for the past year. nearing the 28th of march when there was a functional quantity that have been more than 800. how new displaced passions and these are literally destitute. they are leaving nowhere. they lack busy needs, including drink, of water, shelter everything. and they are truly at risk of their life because some of them paying, you know,

by the highways whisking the to be killed by a cough, but the traffic and exposed to the natural edmunds. these are made mostly by women and children who are complete, living what, not leaving a normal life. we've no dignity, nor safety at all. this is just a situation that has been ongoing for too long. we need to seize. we call back in that much as we would like to continue with these persons, including just basic shereka and busy amenities of every gate. we literally actually do not have access to most of that. and that's what she wants to because we're hearing that agencies already overwhelmed by the numbers of people

who are needing aid. many of these agencies they operate house of dome or the regional capital, if the roads blocks to and from goma, how can they then access any body? what precisely, what i will say we already are not able to access the few by ot, because it has literally been all right, especially the you who to the zones and even we with them by air on to you. not too long when awful. busy you have any kupta was fired, act painfully we've a little damage. but indeed that also signal and not a temp of the con, whereby do heavy cop to off the minute you no longer spec. so we are,

we will be attending whereby we court to the teachers the critique counsel was just yet last week to say we need humanity to your soul for lasting peace, to be buried in coma in is termed yazzy in this region because that is really what would be beneficial for you, marty. and stephanie, stephanie way, it seems that her dire situation is about to get very much worse. why is m 23 advancing at the time when the congress army has just been boosted by east africa and forces? you've got kenyon truth specifically brought in to fight m 23 rebels seem to have made any difference. well, i think one of the things that we've seen this time around and we, it's important to remember that the last and 23 crisis was almost as bad. and that was in 2012. what we've seen this time around and what you and has also acknowledged,

is that the m 23 is stronger than it's ever been before. and we had been to cato, who's the head of the un peacekeeping mission in the d. r. c, saying that it's almost operating like a conventional army. so clearly the support that's being provided by rwanda is substantial. and i think that we, we've known for many years at the colonies army itself is a very weak army. it's facing, of course, a number of different arm groups and the new newly deployed kenyan forces are only one of the troop contributing countries. i think that it's unrealistic to expect them to push back the m 23 on their own. of course, they are working with the un and with the force intervention brigade. but one of the arguments are one of the, one of the criticisms of the, of the canyon forces and of the east african community forces, is that they are in fact creating buffer zones between the colonies. army and the m $23.00, which are effectively allowing the m $23.00 to continue to gain territory. that's very interesting. let's take a step back from this for a moment. stephanie, just to look at who the m. 23. all because as you said,

they were around in 2012. there were disarmed 10 years ago. why have they we surface last year and we grouped and come back so strong. well, i think the real question is why has has were wanda chosen to reactivate them? 23 and the m. 23 is a group. also, of course of kang leaves fighters. they themselves will say that this is a domestic agenda that they are not backed by rwanda. and that they have aspects of ease agreement that were, that were, that was signed in 2013 have not been met. for example d, d r and they're returned to to the eastern d r c. and that they also have concerns about the congress to the community. but the reality is that the m 23 is this strong and was reactivated at a time in late 2021 by rwanda because of a variety, a number of different regional developments. we had uganda and d r c, agreeing on a road construction project that reached down towards the rwandan border. this was considered a threat by rwanda. we also had the entry into the d r. c. shortly thereafter,

in march 2022 of the directly into the east african community, a community that rwanda has been part of for many years. and we also had the deployment to eastern congo of ugandan troops in for as part of operation shooter to, to go after allied to democratic forces. so a number of regional developments that in many people's views, threatened rwanda's hedge, a monic standing in the region. and we're one that has responded by essentially supporting the m $23.00 and relaunching this of this offensive, which is now closing on to 18 months. yeah, very interesting. indeed, reagan, when we talk about this eastern democrat, eastern africa and force coming in. not any talking about kenya as stephanie says, talk about your gans and forces on golden forces. not saying that, going to come in. sounds to dawn force and present in force and it's an awful lot of countries coming into this region. what do you think of that? what are people in goma? think of all these other nationalities coming in to join this fight?

yeah, i think at the beginning there were some, i hope that will stop here because now we know that the original or you know, t f t fights and they made that clear that made that not the fight against. wow, that was the big government asking full. and that the reason why you can given that so much shots are failing because there is everyone you something that yeah that one. can you come on government asking for the regional government. decide on he's, he's side a guess, you guess and can is most read beyond is not ready to do that. you band is not ready to do. so that's make this initiative to be

something that will not have any results go that you are here to. 2 you said the, but the buffer zone, it means that there will be, have been and didn't to pre, that's what people all think in it, it in gamma. so that's all you can use is a bit different, difficult to get as people ask for different things. and right now when we saw the negation from the who, when they asked exactly, that's been said that the government should think about nicholas shipping with m 23 . that the government's not ready for that. and also we know that we looked around growth in electoral europe and the government is not ready for that as as the, the big part of the list. and he's a guest and negotiation against dentistry. we we did. busy

with india and mall done well, 70 percent of kimberly's. don't think that's a good idea to have it should cause this has been going for so long and the m 23 has been evolving but all different dogs and these didn't. busy the situation and didn't prevent the current position to happen to be so many failed. pe finished his in the past to angelic will tragedy . here is that this is a region that is so rich in natural resources. resources that the people that should really be benefiting from yes indeed, a total parable. and for me, i say this has been going on foot to non 3 or more dictates of on the rest of

may mean of healing. if he's believe that between 10000000 to whatever the median has some top parish in this a long conflict and sense most violence more than i'm around 5.8, maybe other person, please. not literally living a normal life for us. we call for how many more kids and move, named and more displeased would that you might have to wait for before can speak in the sense that byron and i would like to ask you a question. when you say humanity, you've mentioned humanity a number of times about who you actually referring to. when you say humanity, i to call it 1st i need to do next. i have the

security council international community as it was johnson. and besides the wrong is to foresee, or to preach into national and security the, the conflict. we know it's very complex call about the country. it's 1st the stakeholders inside the big core of around it and the pick of the father. so that's where i call you money to because i believe in for this country to you find a solution it takes about a little but resolution talking we get so the next best and those 5 the be including not to be the security council. ok. well, let's count because they have just been to visit the region and they've called for a political solution. but as reagan says, most people don't believe that

a political solution is possible because no one is willing to sit down. what are your thoughts on that? well, i think there are different actors who should be involved in a political solution. for my perspective, i think what we need is a dialogue at a regional level. we need dialogue between uganda, rwanda, burundi and the d. r. c. the for core, great lakes countries who have been part of this conflict for the last 3 decades. we've seen persistent interference by the neighbors and eastern congo variety of reasons, economic, political, to some extent security. but the front of the suffering that is happening is happening in the eastern congo civilians in eastern d, r. c, who are, who are living the consequences of these regional tensions, of these regional rivalries and of these unresolved political issues. so for me, we need to have a dialogue at a political level. we also need rwanda at some point to acknowledge that it is supporting the m $23.00. otherwise we're not going to get out of this acute crisis and the crisis might become even worse. now what we did see this weekend was the un

security council, recognizing for the 1st time as a body rwanda's role in supporting the 23. that's certainly a step in the right direction. we've seen bilateral actors do that in the past, but what we haven't seen is any kind of mentioned a punitive or course of effort or measures that might deidra wanda, to actually withdraw support from the n 23. which is something that we did have in 2012 and that certainly contributed to resolving that question. so i think we have 2 different issues here. we have the acute crisis right now with the m 23, and then we have the long standing drivers of conflict in the great lakes region, which mean that for the last 30 years, eastern congo has been the scene of ongoing conflict. and the pressure on winder can come from the international community at large reg, unless return to can shatter. we've got present jessica, katie, he's sitting 2000 some, 2000 plums away from the violence. the how engaged is he? how much of a priority is this? for him to sort out. yes,

we can say that's right now about the main priority. i think the how does this work out on the ground? i think a party to get everyone every 40 to shenise speaking about the boy you know, if you will. but that's not the g that has been so far, i lose weight. there is this spirit of this age, which i'm going gotten enough keybo ending metering, but it didn't room. there is also the operation between the me and you don't have nothing in the region. i mean, without that, so and the other thing is that the government only don't waiting. that's meant involvement of rundown, which i'm sure,

but beyond that, we've seen that need to be done, but companies everyone should have all responsibilities. the international community bed should have a responsibility. the region has been called out. yes. without the full regional dialogue. i think in that which you really board, but also the companies that men should try to resolve problems all the the army you ok. i just want to remove the line from the moment because we have already have time and has an area that we haven't talked about. and that is the other. 100 armed groups fighting in this region, and one that's all corresponded mountain web mentioned. the adf allied democratic forces, we also recently built very brutal attacks by them. stephanie, how have they become so strong and why are they operating in this region?

well, they've been there for many, many, many years. i mean, they were there even before the war that overthrew mobutu, but largely they became a threat to the population in the area around benny dutempo in the last 10 years. now there are many different theories about why and how the 80 s have become so strong. we don't know as much about that movement as we need to know. we do know that they've declared allegiance with with iso. and that i saw has provided them with some, some support, but not very much. fundamentally, they are able to live off of an informal taxation network smuggling and economic activities in areas that they control. and, and certainly that, that would seem to be their objective is not necessarily conquering territory, but controlling the area that they are currently in. uganda has argued that they are a threat to the ugandan government. i think potentially that that is an exaggerated assertion, because the adf really hasn't been able to launch any kind of attack on ugandan

territory for, for over 10 years. we did see some bombings happening late last year. we don't know to what extent, really, the adf was operation li, involved in that. but certainly prior to that, and still today, the adf is a greater threat to calmly citizens again than they are to ugandan citizens. and we've seen this joint operation operative choose between the colonies army and ugandan army, which as regan said, has not yet born much fred. okay, as all of the norwegian refugee counselors, again and again, ranks d all c as the wells most overlooked under addressed refugee crisis, would you agree with that? definitely. yes. especially in regards to internally displaced persons. but also, of course, we have close to 6000000 person. we're internally des, space. yes. and we do have about a 1000000 colleagues who have thought asylum in neck, but in countries or at all persons. dream is to go back to the areas

of origin to act long last, possibly a normal life, and this might only become possible once the cons may have been silence once peace, lasting peace would have prevailed. that is why we really call and then what we call on behalf of all the suffering this person for lacking peace could prevent really it is more than time that the war, the stakeholders would agree that peace is what is needed in the best interest of every one, including the suffering force out there and indeed themselves the stick or this mandate. ok. well on that note we will leave it there. many thanks to our guest reagan, my very stephanie walters and angel to conway, a tango. and thank you to very much for watching. you can see the program again any

time by visiting our website that's out, is there a dot com and for discussion to go to a facebook page that's facebook dot com, ford slash ha inside story. it was during the conversation on twitter or handlers at ha, inside story from me laura kyle and the whole team here in doha is bye for now. ah ah. ah al jazeera, with national chapel

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