of the country shops and ban so operating normally. but in places like the capital pretoria, it was an increase in security and several businesses didn't open them up, was administration. they just waiting on turning around the economy and improving electricity services. ah, but that africans who marched to the presidential guest house said they are growing impatient, harder matessa out is era patricia fripp. ah, well, this is al jazeera and hear your headlines. russian president vladimir putin has told his chinese counterpart that he is open to discussing beijing's plan to end the war in ukraine. president shooting thing is on his 1st visit to moscow since the russian invasion. meanwhile, japan's prime minister from york kasheila is on his way to cave to meet with ukrainian president vladimir zalinski as a communist assertion, pleasuring him. it would include when we have considered your proposals for

settlement of the current crisis. and of course, we will have an opportunity to discuss this. we know that you are basing this or principle of furnace and upholding the principle of the international law and divisible security for all countries. you also know that will always open to negotiations. we'll discuss all these issues including your initiative. depends prime minister is on his way to ukraine on an unannounced visit. it will be for me . ok, sheila's 1st trip to the country since the russian invasion, a year ago. he's expected to assure, present volunteers, zalinski of japan's continued support. a ukraine also says an explosion in crimea has destroyed a cache of russian cruise missiles. the defense ministry said the weapons were being transported by rail. the head of the regions said air defense systems had been activated. south korea is banning the exports of items linked to north korea's satellite development program, and that includes gps technology. john yang has said it plans to put

a military reconnaissance satellite into orbit last week. north korea launched an intercontinental ballistic miss siler icbm at the latest in a series of weapons. tests. a new you and report says the world must slash carbon pollution by 2 thirds by 2035. if it wants to avoid climate catastrophe, the un secretary general has also called on rich countries to quit coal oil and gas by 2040. as many as 43000 people may have died last year in somalia on going drought research by the government. and you and agencies says half of the victims were children under the age of 5. the report says the rates of fatalities could rise in the 1st half of this year. warring sides in yemen have agreed to free almost 900 prisoners. the internationally recognized government and who the rebels have been and talks in switzerland on the exchange of thousands of detainees. this is part of a you and media to deal agreed upon in 2018. the government, the french president amendment macenrow,

has narrowly survived to no confidence votes and parliament over it's controversial pension reform. the results for protests in several cities, there's been anger after the government bypass parliament to raise the retirement age. those are headlines on al jazeera up next. the stream to state you on counting the calls will person's need plans to bring people back into the workforce. help this team can all make right. could the class to silicon valley bank mean a re thing on interest rates plus all righty and wants to create a new fleet of nuclear power, supplying massive price? counting the cost on al jazeera with i am josh rushing. welcome to the stream. it's been nearly 20 years since the us led invasion of iraq event that ushered in decades of chaos, lawson, instability. but even though the shadow of invasion remains

a rockies continue to work to rebuild their country. today we ask, what is the legacy of them based on life in iraq? no, but 1st let's hear from a couple younger rockies who share their memories from 2003 m. and how do we, i know what to puzzle put on during the war in 2003, we live 3 bombing gunfire and explosions with fear and anxiety. we will not comfortable enough that the situation is no better. and we remember the days of the war, but we hope that they are gone for good. i'm deny i knew of ice and boy, and then i michael. it's diana, there's an incident after the war that i'll never forget until this day. one of the neighbors who sells cds and cassettes was killed by armed men. the killing happened in the street and destruction was everywhere. i believe it was a result of the oppression and injustice by the former regime when no hold on me telling them of i'm. so joining us to discuss from godaddy it's up activist, co founder of i q, piece nuf, ossie and providence,

rhode island professor and director of the center for middle east studies at brown university nadia ali. and with us from istanbul, journalist and author of a stranger in your own city gate. abdulla hod and of course there's one more seat at this table and that you, if you're watching live on youtube, see the box over there. we have a producer waiting to get your comments to me so i can get them to our guest. all right, i'm going to begin with you because i just recently read your article in the guardian with reflections about the day that you realized us troops had arrived in baghdad. you kind of walk me through that that, that memory well, i mean, i was in my house, i went to the balcony to the roof to actually, and i, so these are american helicopters, i realized what american because they're small and nimble, and british kerry. and just kind of like an angry wasp, which i thought was a yes, a little corruption because this will used to these kind of fat kind of russian and

8. so you know, that swayed left to right. and the neighbor comes and looks at the door and says, the americans are here, the yes i heard on the word service that and hello 100 kilometers to the south. just know that here on the street and, and, and i can describe this feeling up until today, 20 years later. this is your fed for decades on america being this invader with had already award with america would been bombed by the americans for like 23 weeks in 19 to one. we were bombed. and then he go down and you see american soldiers, there were marines actually and it's a, it's a kind of a very weird, strange feeling. and i followed them, of course, that day. and i stood in the square and i watched stature being toppled. can i ask you about that real quick because it, that's a very famous moment and, and a number of people believed that was a stage moment because they said that the, the young men on the square didn't have a rocky accents. they happened to have

a flag that was pre saddam, you know, ready to put up on the statue. you were there in the square that a, what were, what was your impression of it? so i lived very close to that square. i mean, i live by the theater square, the national theater, and i followed the marine down the 2nd street. and we just kind of happened to be that statue there. that kind of very bad because a statue but also in front of the start to go these to famous hotels, the shirt and then the media. and we're all the international media with that. so i stood in the square, there were marines, there were probably $250.00 journalists, and much less smaller car, the fair darkies. so i stood there watching. it wasn't staged. and then the air up is trying to topple the statue. they had these big, kind of hammers they, they hammered out the, the plan just cried some marbles and then the marine probably was so

impatient that they drove back their vehicle for the news, pulled the statue, but before pulling one of the marines took off, took out this american flag and put it on the face of the statute. this icon an image. and at the time i thought, what are you doing? this is kind of like, this is really bad. you're destroying, let, the iraq is at least celebrate this fiction of elaboration. but later i came to realize that this marine was much more honest than anyone else because he's so the war as a war between united states and era. he didn't believe in all this rhetoric of flip ration and treat and what not. so, you know, if i was there, this was, it's such a metaphor though, it's such a metaphor for the, the success of the invasion for knocking out saddam, which lot of people i think had hope for. and then for immediately screwing it up, ah, in the name of this kind of got ga. gov, go ahead. i don't think that act screw up. anything. i don't think that up pulling

a flag screwed up the whole in fiction. i don't think drummer's mishandling screwed up things. i don't think the fact that the americans came to iraq, so criminally negligent of what was happening, screwed up everything it was bound to fail. it was bound to have an american occupation of a middle eastern country after a 100 years of all, what's been happening in the middle east. it was bound to fail. there was no, i mean, it could have failed less dramatically. maybe without the extreme civil war would of the geologist floating into iraq, maybe. but the idea of invading a country then establishing a democracy. not any country, a country that you bombed in one to one, put under severe sanctions for 13 years and then again bombed in 2003 and come and told become a democracy was bunker bound to fall? um, okay, for disclosure, a lot of our audience knows this on how to 0, but i was a marine at the time, our session,

doha at u. s. central command headquarters. when that, that you went down to what are your memories of it? you were quite young at the time. right? yeah, i mean, like i said, i was like a gift teenager, year old was like has no idea what's going on except like the idea of like that, like when i think that was like in my memory that like my parents, my family, they have a memory of like couple of wars and that's my 1st. so i was like try and like to do that compare isn't between like, what is the difference between like my older sisters like memory of like the other like 2 words and mine. what's gonna happen? didn't think much of like, what's going to happen after or like how it's going to my because like to be honest like what i was like thinking like, oh them he's like going to when and then like we're going to have another like day or school because that's why we had like, used to why never like that,

like that, like this whole experience will change the way i look at life or like the way that we all like my generations. how we are like now become like different in the way of thinking, the way of making decisions. and so more digging on that how to change the way you look at life. let's say that like i, i was, i was a dreamer who was like to be an artist and then studied like find out. but then i realize that like all i know is emergency response that driven my career at the moment because i'm better at it. i'm better at like, like doing like just wanting to emergency because i have experienced the experience that i know how people feel. i know how people are afraid and that's like shifted my whole life. gave me another like perspective into what i'd

like the play out if you'd like for me is literally like not only i'm like for me is that like the water itself, it is something but then like the aftermath of the war that's like really shape that tune doesn't seem like considering like life and death. i remember like i some parts of my life. i lost like my humanity. i couldn't like care for others who are like dying because people are like getting close to the streets. and when i called them like, you know, to get like, like that, like for me like death is like and bed. why, why know? so how do you go from being nearer to death as you're around all the time to now you're actually got to help with the earthquake and emergency response like what a transition there the transition is that like yeah, as i mentioned that like i'm a person who has like experience for experience golf like some violence. and then

at one point i was a few g s one time and at one time i was an i d p. i know like that. how people feel. so which makes me like no better how like, what is like the media? just one for them. so that's why i was like, that's like how it's shifted. like now, like i know like i really understand like people in chicky when les it and also like and say yeah, they like over a sudden like these, not their houses and they're like, you know, less everything and badly, like, you know, alive. i totally get that feeling because i experienced it. so that may make me think about like what, like the priorities like to prepare and terms of like how we design or respond. so as a human italian, it's a weird thought, i think that thinks something so terrible, this war actually created this kind of loving compassionate thing that you're doing now for people who are suffering from disaster. that, that, that's, that's quite an arc nadia. i want to bring you in as the 20th anniversary of this invasion as, you know, come upon us what,

what have you been reflecting on what you've been thinking about? well, i mean, on one level i was remembering the time when i was part of the iraqi diaspora. i have a slightly different perspective because i wasn't inside iraq. i was a non done during the time of the invasion. and as many, many iraqis i'm in iraq since the 15th century, to experience several waves of migration and displacement. so that's a very large iraq, a diaspora. and interestingly that i asked probably quite divided over the question off the invasion. so there are actually some people in the iraq diaspora who were pushing for it. i was not part of that. i was part of the protest movement against sanctions and invasion. and i had together with some friends, started act together woman action for iraq. and i remember of seeing the pictures being part of a protest and feeling some sense of you know,

hope and collector motivational, just and non done but globally. and i have to say that until the very end. i couldn't believe that it was actually going to happen. the day of the invasion act together started an exhibition in london called our lives in pieces. we had asked iraqis to provide us with some artifact or some piece that symbolized the relationship to iraq. and the day that we opened exhibition the invasion happened, and i remember all of us just couldn't believe it. and of course i'm thinking about my family. i have some family members who lost their lives and for me, if i could them a clear sense, the invasion, i've been trying to really document the huge gap between the very rhetoric of liberation and reality. and my focus has been to show that women actually have been

the largest victim of the invasion and occupation. because not only half is seen that the proliferation of violence and militia lawlessness kills. but we've seen an incredible increase in gender based by then and much greater shift to the social conservatism. so i mean, eyes has documented the increase in the militia weatherstone. neosha when they would move into a neighborhood. the 1st thing that would do would target women would force them to, to where certain dress code would control their movements would control who they would be seeing. so. but i think it's also important to not portray iraqi women as me a victims off the invasion occupation because just also saw that after 2003 that was the mushroom main office and rights organization. and you know,

women really try to push against the us led occupation policy. i mean some people and i go and give talks. and the superset bots, you know, the occupation gave women the quota. so a certain percentage 25 percent of all representation is women. but that's despite us objection the says, iraq, he women's rights activists pushing and pushing until they would get this. so the 1st thing that dropped off the agenda of the us led occupation was women's rights. and any kind of commitment agenda based equality struck by your position before because you were saying yes were against the war. but at the same time you have to acknowledge that saddam actually is a really negative force. yeah, i'm in iraq. yes. yes. so i'm in. i was not happy, many of us were not how he was some of the us based, or you ok based on to sanctions and auntie war activism. because i think that very

much focusing on, you know, imperialism on to western policies, but they were glossing over the atrocities of the regime of saddam hussein. and for myself and many of my friends, it was really, really important to do both to stay well to them. saying is that the cater has been involved in terrible atrocities and human rights abuses. but that does not justify an invasion and occupation. i want to bring in another voice. this is from our community. this is from our al saudi checked us up. i have the feelings about to the 20 to him versus the of the invention of one of the site that iraq is more open to the word and the time compared with saddam hussein and other side, many bad things have happening since then. many iraqis have been killed and there

is a lot of hate speech and extremism. now yes, so you know, as a young marine, i believe what i was told when we were kind of, i was telling the war in the media basically as this liberation. that's not the way it turned out at all. that's not the way turned out. it turned out with, with, with what he was saying mix results, i would say a whole lot of chaos get key kind of bring us up like 20 years later what, what do we have now in baghdad? i mean, i totally agree with you. i mean, this whole binary, i mean, up until now 20 years later, people asked me, so it was better or, or the occupation as it is or nothing, either mad dictator or an illegal occupation. i mean, eric is that something else and in between? 20 is on, when are we now? we are, you know, apart from all the disasters that happened with the war,

apart from all the atrocities committed after what the war enshrined in iraq and shined a political system. although democratic on paper, it's based on sectarian ethnic quarter, what we call an out of the hassle, and that my house assistant ensures that there is this division of spoils, the division of state resources. and you end up with one of the most corrupt governments or countries in the world era today is $12000000000000.00 a year budget. what kind of oil money. and yet some parts of add up, some parts of, but about itself is on par with one of some of the worst countries in the world in terms of poverty. it's, it's in the bottom of everything. bottled transparency to national, you and d p, you call it. so what is out? this is a mutant state. it is democratic in terms of constitution, but it has

a penal code that goes back to the birth is regime of 1968. the kind of the freedom that which was the only thing that was good outcome of a kind of a freedom of expression, arts creativity of writing, whatever you want to call it. that is being eroded as we speak and, and the other thing which is kind of very, very important. i personally, i think is the state of anna is this kind of very weird newton state. it's not here defined 20 years later. it's still trying to define it's, it's trajectory, eggs, national rhetoric, audi 6. mm hm. so i'm getting those monster has a lot of here. yeah, nadia. i think i sent them to you to get them to come to you. a lot of people, youtube are sharing their memories of where they were when the iraq war started. this is an american that said that she felt helpless, hated bush,

and the guy who threw the shoe at him was a hero. that's catherine. and we have a lot of, there are some iraqis in there, sharing memories as well. so just what i want to say to you to community, as i love it, keeps share memories. keep talking about this in the meantime, nati. yes, please jump in. yeah, i just feel that it's really important, given that it's 20 years to also stress that i mean, i personally feel uncomfortable to not to mention that it's not only the us led invasion or to us that of course there were other international military troops and particularly the ok, but i think we also need to stress the responsibility off corrupt, sectarian iraqi politicians. and yes, it is true that the us that invasion facilitated them getting into power. but iraqis on north shelf pockets. i mean, many of them where advocates of the invasion, many of them were complicit. many of them since then have been,

as a very much pointed out, have been incredibly corrupt, have been also a terry. and i mean, we have come full circle again and terms of political repression. and of course, we also need to think about regional factors. i mean, that's iran, this how there may be, there's gotta, i don't think we can live also in this sort of world where we can reduce everything to the us invasion. this is not at all to diminish the responsibility and the facts . but there are many, many actors, and many factors that have led to the situation that we find ourselves and to day. but also picking up on the race we're saying there is the new generation is really trying to resist. and i have hope because the new generation house been out on the street. it's protest thing. it is very much opposed to sectarian ism,

it is using not just traditional forms of politics, but also creativity, culture film, to express their descent and also to express their vision for the future. and they just want to live. they want to live, quote unquote normalized. you know, so and 6, i'm hearing a thread here, i guess you just mentioned about a kind of loss of the arts. not a you just said that the younger generation might be engaging with the arts again. and then i see nuf over there who dreamed of being an artist, but spends her life responding to disasters. it has a rock bound, it's identity, the post war that isn't defined by the war yet. no. i think it's like we had us to like, let's say it's like looking at like the past 12 years. we have been like in different like struggles we have the like into different like i say people like trying like different ways like i was like to be on the 1st i lose hope that like

we will have like let's say like a generation that is really born like to that, to the country and know like, like that, considered like what we need as iraqis not like what is like my sex or like my background or like where, like, i'm belonging, like one clued in militia has quite a few years and so on the all the like considered until october, october like, did that change? did something like really important? like after like if we look at like the like after like the secretary and was like, iraq, iraq have been divided into silos like based on sex background. so like, i'm from back that back that have been like silos as neighborhood which like lead inches like generations that like we had not really makes among each other that like that mix that like maybe like the different, like the other like generations that have the living like together like we didn't

feel that and the generation like come after me october or like to read how i love to call it should be and broke like that to sri makes like everybody together. i have been like in plenty of square like we were like all together and people were like talking about like i'm from like this area and like we are like all together even says like we are in different by zones. i had took, took a driver who was like, telling me that like, you know, i was like, i'm really glad now that like i have a friends who are like one of them as a doctor. one of them is an artist, and one of them is the thing get on a new edition. then like i will be sitting like together, like in one group, i've only got about a minute left, but i know a rock is reconsidering as constitution right now. they want to have hope that a new constitution might offer a new hope for iraq's future real quick gave. so i totally agree with that is a moment of happiness that a moment of a trans,

sectarian post sectarian politics that took place. and that was to spend 20192020. this is a new generation, a post civil war generation. now. uh, you know, the biggest, one of the biggest casualties of the war is democracy itself. because for the new generation, when you tell them parliament, they think corruption, when you tell them elections, they think of people selling their votes of buying votes. so that is a victim. so talking about changing the constitution is that also updated double sided sort because people are so fed up with disc there. this idea of democracy. i had a cold for bringing back a strong mckay. i got to stop it because we've got about half a minute left. i just want to think all 3 of you for being on the program today. i want to remind our viewers, the actual anniversary of the invasion is march 20th alger english will cover it all day. so. so come check back in here for that. and we'll see you next time on

the strength. ah ah on accounting the calls will brittany plans to bring people back into the workforce help boost economic growth? good. the glad to silicon valley bank mino rethink on interest rates. plus australia wants to create

a new fleet of nuclear power submarine. a massive price counting the cost on al jazeera aah al jazeera and with capital g a done with a pushing with

one a tour global perspective. mm. ready too often of kind of style is portrayed through the prism of war. but there were many of canister thanks to the brave individuals who risked their lives to protect it from destruction. an extraordinary film, archived spanning for decades reveals the forgotten truth of the country's modern history. the forbidden real pot for the ear of darkness on a jessia ah powerful friends. china's choosing pain visits moscow and promotes his plan to end the war in ukraine.