to java and we got some big down poles gathering across pakistan that spilling out of afghanistan. nasty little system. this one we have orange warnings and falls for the time big that will make its way further eastwards into the himalayas. ah. in a post colonial. whoop. the scars of european imperialism run deep. nowhere more so than in the democratic republic of congo. whether history still shapes the president of this rule, yet infamous insight through the eyes. whistleblower de patriotic military commander witness presents. this is com. go on a jessica israel has scrapped parts of a lot boring testers from some areas of the occupied west bank tension has been running high in the region. so what's behind the move and just have problematic all

these a legal settlements in the palestinian territories. this is inside story. ah hello there and welcome to the program. i'm the stars the attain that israel's parliament as overturned part of the law, that band illegal settlements in the northern region of the occupied west bank. it's been placed since 2005. when is really set has been moved out during israel's withdrawal to from the gaza strip. the move fulfills along health goal of the far right. politicians who dominate benjamin netanyahu is coalition government. and they are the latest in a series of initiatives by the government to increase illegal settlements across the occupied west bank. well, the areas that are affected include the palestinian villagers of her mesh so nor cut him and gun him as you can see there. as we mentioned,

the legal settlements there were dismantled back in 2005 when israeli forces left garza and then prime minister ariel sharon. well, israel's minister of national missions or it struck has held this in an interview. she predicted that the next step will be a return to the gaza strip. she said, i don't know how long it will take. sadly, a return to the gaza strip will involve many casualties. just as the departure from the gaza strip, it came with many casualties. but ultimately it is part of the land of israel and the day will come when we will return to us. washington has condemned israel moved to revoke the floor, saying it further undermines a true state solution. we have been clear that advancing settlement is an obstacle to peace and the achievement of a 2 state solution. this certainly includes creating new settlements, building or legalizing outposts, or allowing building of any kind on private, palestinian land or deep in the west bank adjacent to palestinian communities,

all of which would be facilitated by this legal change. the action also represents a clear contradiction of undertaking israeli government made to the united states. ah, well, let's bring in our panel now and television. we have a key elda. he's a columnist, and also the author of lords of the land. the war of israel settlements in the occupied territories and ramallah, we have no day a political analyst and also the formal spokeswoman for the palestinian task force on public diplomacy. and in washington, dc, michael m, and then he is the director of research for israel and palestine at democracy for the arab wells. now that's a nonprofit organization that supports human rights in the middle east and north africa. a very warm welcome to each of you. thanks so much for joining us here on inside story. know i'm going to start with you. can you give me your reaction to this week's move? well, i think we have to look at this as part of the big picture, which is that this is a government that has a very clear agenda. it is working to permanently colonize the land,

and that includes reversing a very symbolic, really withdrawal from these supplements. and at the time of the unilateral exit from garza, those settlements were never returned to the palestinians. the land was never returned to its owners. and so now this is just a one way to signal to the constituency of the sprite with government that it will push ahead with supplement construction and expansion with taking over at really the rest of the west bank. no matter what the world thinks or says, because again, they know that they're thinking and saying is where the buckle stop and so far there is no signal that there are any consequences for such actions which are illegal under international you know. ok, i do want to give us a little bit more context here at we're talking about these 4 settlements. settlers when moved out in 2005. this move allows them back. but i do believe it still has

to be signed by an israeli military commander in order to actually been be enforced . presumably that will happen. i keep it, let me talk to you. what does the timeline potentially look like and, and is this a done deal, or is there legal recourse? i'm sure that it will be appealed and you know, these days that story is the relationship between the judiciary and the government. i'm sure that in the some peace and yos are ready with the beer, it will actually not change the situation on the ground. because under ground, the settlers doing whatever they like. actually, the settlers, the government, and the government, is now full of settling. the minister in the ministry of defense smote

ridge is a settler. ok, then, greer. the minister of national police is a center. so now they are part of the decision making process and dare agenda and their priorities are very different from i can't even say the majority of these ready because even they could to voters, even people who believe in greater israel. most of them are not missing any, most of them are not kind of jewish to us. so to connect to my answer to the previous guess, i can say that as long as the domestic political domestic price that this government has to pay for is close to 0 because the security council will not use chapter 7 and will not use sanctions

in israel. and let's wait and see if for president biden will still use the veto power to stop sanctions against israel. i wouldn't put my money on it. oh, well, this seems to be a good time to bring michael into the discussion. i know the u. s. michael, particularly president george w bush was instrumental in getting the 2005 deal done back then. this is obviously a very sensitive time for jo biden's government. how is netanyahu and there's broader coalition being viewed in d. c. m. i think with her really, you know, i think that this, this process is government the best way to understand the way that the united states has seen it. and we'll see it and will probably dictate actions as a parent or a sibling of somebody who is an addict. and they understand that their behavior is

disruptive and against their own interest. but they're all they can do is change their own behavior. so i'd, i agree with the case that we don't, i don't think we'll see sanctions on israel from united states from the but what it does do is create the space for the ministration to have a more honest discussion with itself. reconciling the image of the method, israel, the american politicians, are more comfortable with and had for many, many years with what israel has become. but quite frankly, with what israel leaders have been saying they want and they, they are. and what israel, what israel is for many, many years. so i think the administration understands that, but they're, they're taking a long time to come around and sort of acknowledge and believe it. but we may see that, and we're seeing sort of escalating steps from small changes in language to the way that they describe the relationship to be really about that or to

a big department a couple of days ago over this specifically. but i think that that what we're likely to see if this type of move, which has not pointed out quite correctly, is part of the bigger package. we can't look at this as an isolated piece of legislation. the law itself is one page long, and it's part of a package of dozens of laws, completely reshape the israeli political and legal system. but more importantly, it's relationship to the palestinian territory and the policy people. i want an extension. i want to look at some of those other pieces of legislation in a minute, but just sticking with particular move this week for now. i know the u. s. has come out and said it's extremely troubled by this new law. i believe that by netanyahu had a conversation on the phone on sunday, and they didn't talk settlements at all. now, beyond the, the outward condemnation here, nor what would you like to see from the us?

well, from the u. s. and others i would like for them to be consistent to treat, to treat this government as a rogue government the way it would if it were governing any other country. this is a government that's not only clown to international law, it is declaring its intention to commit crimes. it is assaulting the tenants of the jewish democracy so to speak, which of the defective democracy and israel that also excludes the 20 percent of palestinians hold and israeli at nationality, but even that is now under threat. so despite all of that, the american administration continues to treat the situation with kid gloves. the european union have, you know, had a few statements here and there, but still the largest trading partner with israel is refusing to take any accountability steps including faction, or,

or at least banning of settlement products. these are steps consistent with international law steps that the europeans and the americans have taken him to respond to other situations of occupation including that. d in the your brain and yet the culture of impunity, the feeling of invincibility that the israeli government and the previous fund i have that is a, is a natural outcome of the fact that they've always been shielded from any kind of accountability. and that's, you know, unless that is broke up. and then really there isn't much that's going to change except the fact that, you know, with their back to the corner the palestinians are not going to simply, you know, watch as of all of their land is stolen from under their feet. and as much it is really that the fact the ruler of the west bank kind of gets to act out or,

or play out the plan that he has or controlling the entirety of its sort. alice dine by doing away with the palestinians, whether by encouraging them to leave or by expelling them, or confining them to their cities and villages, then the direction were headed and no one stopped then then i'm sure. so i want to pick up on something you just said there, that the palestinians won't just sit idly by and watch this happen. i notice the timing of this is obviously the sort of ramadan east and pass over both just around the corner. i keep it, is there a concern that the timing of this can be viewed as provocative in itself? you know, there's been attempts now to get these rarely send the policies together. because now even a meeting between prime minister netanyahu and i will mas and you know, something that we took it as the most natural thing to happen. because

we have an agreement. we have also agreement. actually when we're talking about disengagement from north and west bank and gaza, this was actually part of the process. and where is the courses? we are now 30 years after the you know i was in the white house in the house long when she went. barrison dropping shook hands with now it looks like, you know, it was in another century. so i believe that the israeli people are now starting to realize the linkage between dosa messianic smart rich and bank via and democracy. and you see no half a 1000000 people in the streets to day demonstrating against the

blitz the or, ah, attempt to change these rarely democracy and on stories. and the occupation you don't see is rarely obs industries. because the israeli democracy is democracy for juice, mainly. and if we don't find a way to find some kind of a lift to go there a way to bring together jewish values and democratic values, we're heading towards evie's and i haven't yet. and the names that can be a way for people to live together. but i noticed that set of islands in particular has also been on the rise. i took a look at some of the numbers. now since the start of this year, 2023 is really 2nd related violence. reach what an average of 3 incidents per day compared with 2 incidents per day last year. one incident day per day,

law the year before that in 2021. those at un numbers. now i know part of israel's justification for the sacraments itself has been this idea of security. michael, do you think the west or anyone in the west still buys that? i think that picking up on what to keep and i'll get to your question. the 2nd that it's always been easier. and this is both of a tragedy and an opportunity at the mom for the west in particular, but for the world to care more about the jewish israelis than the lives of policy and the safety of policy. and. and and that's tragic because it means that there's been 55 or 75 years of tragedy of massacres, of, of killings and injustice. but the opportunity is that if the world stop seeing israel as a democracy at the way, the jewish israelis experiences that it's very difficult to continue the charade or

to continue looking at is really policy and situation as 2 separate reasons. because if israel knowledge democracy and its own borders recognized by the world, then how could, how can you separate that from the undemocratic military regime that's been rolling over millions of palestinians, 55 years. so, you know, i think that there, there is an opportunity for the world to change the way that it, what's the israel palestine situation but, but it's, it's focus, it's in the wrong place. my whole, you're talking there about this shift away from democracy in the wrong fact. all 3 of you are, and we have obviously seen these huge, huge protests that have been taking place in israel as part of this huge way the legislation that this coalition government wants to, to put through. now i'm wondering about the public opinion that you are seeing the akiva is a bit of

a normalization. now if you think of the fall rise. oh yeah, i am according to the recent posting directions today. and a and guns could form a coalition. having said that, while they were in power for, for the last year or so, and they didn't make any attempt to reach out to the seniors or to get closer to a final settlement agreement. you know, guns rang on the last election of the elections on the ticket that he was responsible as the chief of staff for the killing of more than 1000 for the seniors in gaza. so we needed deeper change in this equation and the equation is not only israel in policy, it was out the make and you know,

not only facilitating but putting the political troops and giving as it was sent before. and as long as there is impunity. and d, d occupation is so cheap for the israelis. yes, some israelis have been also killed. we have to mention this. you know, we lost 2 young brothers a few weeks ago. but the palestinians have nothing to lose. because at the end of the tunnel there is no light. and more than that, there is no tunnel because even negotiation going back to the table looks now like i've had to see that many people in israelis including people in the last have lost it. and no doubt demonstrating do was saved the democracy and

a slot about the occupation. i want to help in their given because we are having this very broad discussion, which is an incredibly important one about the future of israel and the future of palestine. but also within the context of this move this, this move about the specific for villagers that we've seen this week. just one of our, a whole host of things that's taking place at the moment. this is all obviously part of a much larger picture. now in terms of settlements, it's something like 600750000 between those numbers, israeli settlers, even at least 1250 settlements and outposts across the occupied west bank and an occupied east jerusalem. now i know the man who as of february is in charge of settlements and netanyahu's coalition government, he is the man you've been talking about. basil else ma trek. i want to listen to what he had to say earlier this week. oh there's no such thing as a palestinian. there's no such things of palestinian people. do you know whose palestinian i am palestinian ah. ah

my late grandfather whose 13 generation of jerusalem night is the true palestinian . wow. ah, the palestinian people on an invention that is less than a 100 years old? no, i know that deeply profoundly hurtful and offensive to many people. do you regard that is as reflective of the tone broadly from netanyahu's government. i think it's a very honest representation of where this government stands. it's not just much who were denying the existence of the palestinian people and their their, their national identity and their humanity re. but this genocide. busy this denial of them, of, of the palestinian people. it is where it is the ground on which all of these ministers stand. and i would remind the viewers the one at yahoo 1st

became prime minister. his statements were maybe a bit more eloquent, a bit more swab, but they weren't really far from where small church is. and the policies that have been adopted by his successive governments, nothing. yahoo really translates or led up to where we are now in 2000. and $181.00, israel adopted the so called nation state law, which accorded only jews. the exclusive right to self determination in historic palestine. it considered settlements to be a national priority and basically treated indigenous palestinians as a squatters with, with no, right? you know, all of that it's, it's only natural for us to year. someone like smarter spelling out his ideology with, with such audacity in a foreign capital, i would say, you know,

i would remind he didn't say this, it israel where he says it all the time. he fed it in heiress and still he wasn't told to lean. so again we go back to that sense of invincibility is these politicians know because of practice, but they can say anything they can do anything and they will get away. i remember i want to hear because given the tone that we're talking about nor, and what you were saying, a key about this real well, this foundering if anything piece process. i see the us is still talking about a peace process and a 2 state solution. i mean, michael, a lot of people, including 2 panelists, you might argue that there is a very empty terms. i would agree completely. i would just add to what number thing you know before last week, that quote, that type of statement. there's no such thing as a palestinian people, and i really,

politician speaking was most closely associated with gold to my hair. this is not a new thought to be coming from israeli leaders. and you know, the oppertunity again here is that this government is saying the quiet part outline so i don't think that, you know, we're gonna see any, any consequences here. i do think that, you know, as we were saying before, that the world is going to have to start seeing the government and for what it is and this government as reflective of israel. and it's not all of israel. you know, we're seeing massive protests against the government, but you have to remember also that again, this is part of a package that is in the eyes of yours will be the justice minister in the eyes of the law. smart church in the eyes of many other members, senior members of this is really government is ultimately and enabling the annexation of the entire was bank and what they call one of israel. well we are

hearing as well other senior members of this government of this desire as well to move back into gaza. i keep it. do you anticipate basil or a building spring to take place? i don't think so. i think that even though the voters out there you could would not like to send songs you back, you guys are. ready be a member of message from the radical right. who said that regardless of the price we have to pay $1.00 day, we have to go the, this is rhetoric. so the problem in my eyes is that the people of israel keep voting for those parties. and the i heard so many times from american diplomats and civil servants,

the united states cannot want peace more than you these well. and some of them even more than the other union. so as long as d israelis don't have the desire to put an end to the conflict, they can live discarded. this is most of them are very comfortable with their economy situation with our ability to travel anywhere. the 2nd was strong, but the game changer can be economic repercussions of what's happening now in the field, in the other field of democracy versus dictatorship. and here it seems that people are starting to move. they read in the newspapers that the high tech experts in israel are moving,

people are taking out their money transferring to switzerland. so once they will see the connection between their personal safety and their well being and your occupation, then we may see some changes saw in the stream. so any were really changed though. calculus here. now before we end, because we have been talking about settlements to begin with, i want to throw this to, you know, can you give us a sense of what it's like to live in these areas as palestinians close to israeli settlements? i know there has been not only rising levels of violence, but also attacks on olive trees. for example. can you describe how it feels to live there? well it's, it's a nightmare to put it in a much so and those affected those most effect, the live. right next to the 2nd,

and we're talking about dozens and dozens of small isolated villages. villages that know they have no recourse to safety. they can call the fire fighters, they can call palestinian police for protection. the israeli army, a company, the settlers, while they're attacking the as the villages. and so there's a constant sense of hopelessness and being under attack. every palestinian travelling on the road in the occupied west bank checks constantly on the status of the road. whether there are settlers on the road or the attacking the palestinian cars, which roads to take and which roads to not take. and that sense of being under attack is exactly what settlers want. it's, it's exactly what they've been enabled to do. but i think it's very important to, to highlight to the viewers the palestinians. don't see the settlers as separate

from the states from the israeli established they are. and another part of that is funded an aided and protected by the israeli occupation army by the occupation regime or. and so they see it as wiring thing and that helped us inside and a sense of impunity. on the israeli side, i'm afraid we'll have to leave it there. but thank you to all of our guests, kiva, nor day, and michael own and then thank you to for watching. you can see this program again, anytime by visiting our website out there or dot com for further discussion, do go on facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. remember to join the conversation on twitter handle at a inside story for me to pay on the whole team here. and i snapped the

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