the space i used to dream about working in a stressful company like not sound like enough of a small stuff, the science, a giant leap for women, kind encompassed on it, but don't place it and hide there. and at the scheduled time, the satellite would be sent to space. women make science cognizant on space school episode 5 on al jazeera. there are some of the media stories a critical look at the global news media spread on al jazeera government shuttle access to social media. ah hello, i, mary. i'm to missouri in london with a quick look at the main stories now pull recessive beginner. the man who say more than $1200.00 lives during their wand and genocide is due to be released from

prison. it been sentenced to 25 years on terrorism charges tied to an organization opposed to rwandan president polka ga me or says the beginner worked as the manager of a hotel in kigali. during the 1994 genocide. his story was told in the hollywood film, hotel, rwanda or why didn't government spokeswoman yolande mccullough explained the terms of his release to ouch is era. what is important to note it that there is consensus that serious crimes were committed and that ronda was justified in pursuing, arresting, and convicting paul just as a beginner and his call accused and they are being there that they have received clemency now. oh, in accordance with our laws, based on their requests and oh, their sentences have been commuted. this does not mean that there are the underlying convictions are extinguished. banking socks have plummeted in europe,

led by deutscher bank shares in the jam and giant closed down 9 percent amid ongoing fears of a crisis in the banking sector. german chancellor love shots has tried to reassure europeans at the bank is profitable. meanwhile, the dutch prime minister mark richer and the french president, manuel, wac micron insist that europe is not on the brink of another financial crisis, those are and viewers to one's a shout. so a virus of insecurity is planted relatively quickly. and then last, it's for a very long time, the uncertainties about the banking system in the loan to force. the risks in the banks can be felt everywhere in the market. but that doesn't really change the fact that they are special cases that have ultimately caused the entire banking system to be thrown into disrepute and uncertainty. could have been more violent protests against raising the retirement age in france, which have forced postponement of estate visit by the british monarch harrison emanuel macros as it would lack common sense for king charles to visit in the

middle of these protests. honors of police were injured is more than a 1000000 people demonstrated around the country on thursday. israel's attorney general is accused prime minister benjamin netanyahu of breaking a conflict of interest law by getting directly involved as governments judicial oval plan or standing trial for corruption. as in yahoo insist that he will proceed with the changes that they would give the government sway and choosing judges and limit the supreme court's power. to strike down laws is, are an official visit to the u. k, where he's been met with protests israeli army reserve pilots of during the demonstrations against that government by refusing to report for active duty. israel's army chief has warned prime minister netanyahu that is proposed overhaul could affect the readiness of the army for any security developments. the u. s. is counter as strikes on targets in easton, syria, reportedly killing 11 pro iranian fighters. pentagons as the operation came, often iranian link drone attacks a us led coalition base near alaska. on thursday,

5 american soldiers were injured and a contractor was killed. and again says the building it struck was completely destroyed, the casualties up still being assess. these precision strikes were intended to protect and defend us personnel. and the u. s. took proportionate and deliberate action intended to limit the risk of escalation and minimize casualties. as secretary austin said in his statement, no group will strike our troops with impunity again, secretary austin, along with the department of defense oper, our thoughts and prayers to the family and colleagues of the american contractor who was killed. and with those who are wounded in the attack, our forces deployed in syria continue to conduct their important mission and support of the international coalition to ensure the enduring defeat of isis. we will say the following developments in afghanistan, dozens of people are believed to be missing off the heavy floods in the northern bulk province. at least 300 homes have been washed away. roads enlarge sways of

farmland, have been destroyed. the authority of the destruction and bulk comes a huge financial loss and more rain is expected in the coming days of those, the headlines this hour, the bottom line with steve clemens coming up next the . ready hi, i'm steve clements, i have some questions. 20 years later was invading iraq, a major mistake, and should the u. s. apologize, let's get to the bottom line. ah, was strong support from the american public and both political parties. the u. s. government launched a massive invasion of iraq in 2003. it removed its president at the time saddam hussein and occupy the country directly for years. the official reasons were that iraq was stockpiling weapons of mass destruction and was supporting al qaeda which

had carried out the attacks of $911.00 on american soil. both of these accusations quickly turned out to be really false and the you and called the invasion illegal under international law. the iraqi people launched a resistance to the occupation and also fought each other in a bloody civil war. hundreds of thousands of iraqis had been killed since then. along with more than 4500 american troops and thousands of military contractors, millions of iraqis have either fled the country as refugees, or had been displaced inside their own country. now, 20 years later, the u. s. military is still there with a few 1000 soldiers, but was it all a historic wonder and what have the long term consequences of that war been for america and for the world. today we're talking with jonathan land, a. the us national security correspondent for reuters here in washington, who holds a special place in us journalism history for his work back then, which we'll get to in a 2nd. and also retired army colonel andrew bass, of ich, professor of international relations and history at boston university and author of

washington rules america's path to permanent war. thank you both for joining us on this anniversary. and let me just start with you dr. base of ej. why did we go to war in iraq and did america get anything constructive or productive from that engagement? well, the answer to the 2nd question is emphatically know? ah, the answer, the 1st question i think becomes complicated. oh and, and the, the answer i have come to think is most important is that we went to war in iraq in order to, to demonstrate that 911 didn't matter. and what i mean by that is that the end of the cold war had given rise to a set of expectations, particularly prominent among american, the american elite. that we were the sole superpower. that history had reached its

final conclusion that we were the indispensable nation. that our military couldn't be beat. and then the, the $911.00 attack seems to seemed at the time to say, not so fast. and i think that the, although there are a variety of considerations that mattered the most important, i think ultimately was that the da da georgia a, be a, been a bush administration, was absolutely a determined to demonstrate that there was only one superpower in that american global primacy was secure. they expected a quick victory. they didn't get it. we ended up getting the, the dirty, ugly, a costly war, that dough, that we all had to endure. let me ask you in just a quick follow up, andy. i'm just interested in the band wagging effect of why iraq afghanistan, i could understand iraq, i didn't,

didn't see things coming into place kit. can you just share with our audience the sorts of pressures that were unleashed, and you worry about them being unleashed again, in future cases like this? well, i'm way up here in walk home, massachusetts. so i don't to sort of feel the inside the beltway pressures that you're referring to, although i'm sure the existed and yeah, i suspect that they exist, not, not to his great extent, but exist today to that. there is a, a bandwagon in an expectation that you need to get on board with regard to the biden administration's policy regard to ukraine. if you're not on board, you're an appeaser. ah, now that sort of a one track mind thinking did not serve us well with regard to iraq, my personal judgment, it and that of the quincy institute is it, it's not going to serve our interest on this occasion as well. jonathan landey,

when i was reading about that conflict before we had invaded and as things were building up, you were the 1st journalist i ever read that raise questions. serious questions and, and, and i'm just interested in what you saw of it. no one else saw. so i don't want to take full credit back then i was working for mcclatchy's, a sorry for knight ridder newspapers, mom and i had we were a team warren strobe who's now at the wall street journal or editor john walcott. and joe galloway, the late joe galloway who eventually joined the team. and essentially what happened was the following. i, i, i admittedly, was among those who believed the group think here and d. c. that, of course, saddam hussein was amassing weapons of mass destruction. of course, he was trying to develop a nuclear weapon on september 12th, warren came back to the bureau and called us and called me into john's office and

said, they're discussing at the national security council to push national security council . i'm afghanistan, but also iraq. and we looked at each other and said, iraq, why are they talking about iraq? and that led us into this very this years long a project of looking at what the administration was using as this justification for invading iraq. as you pointed out at the beginning of the show, saddam hussein was at massey weapons of mass destruction. and he had this tie up with al qaeda and there had to have been a state sponsor of 911. and of course it had to have been saddam and worn, and i divided up the work i started looking at the weapons of mass destruction ah question. and quickly came to doing the journalism to the understanding that it was not

a clear case that he was amassing weapons of mass destruction. he had been under the most rigid, most intense un inspection program up to that date. and there were a satellites and spy planes watching iraq. and they were not uncovering anything, if in fact, what they were fighting was they are, they were either finding the remnants of these programs or they were learning that in fact he had gotten rid of these programs. and, you know, that took us into the, into this reporting project where we determined that the information and i call it information, not intelligence, that the administration was using to justify the invasion to sell to the united, to the american people. was in fact, either bogus, exaggerated, or was cherry picked and that's exactly what came to be known. that in fact,

they did not have this solid intelligence that they claimed to have about him having about saddam. but in my own view, i always saw those people who wanted to invade iraq, iraq was a stepping stone to actually taking on a ron. and we had a lot of people that were part of that's who said that was the ultimate objective. but iraq proved but how do you see that? yeah, i mean, there we read over the project for a new american century. i mean, they were looking at the audience, the project crew, newark and century was the centerpiece of neo conservative or thinking at that time, right? and they were looking not just at iraq, of course they were major advocates for the invasion. but they were looking at other countries who either because they were amassing weapons of mass destruction or they were tied to terrorism. but, but the irony in all of this is that the american invasion of iraq actually opened the door to iranian influence in iraq, a massive iranian influence in iraq. and it's,

they still maintain that influence. and, and, and that is one of the consequences of this invasion. there are others, of course, we still have troops in iraq. there is a massive american loss of influence in the region. we've just seen china step in to mediate this agreement between iran and saudi arabia. to reestablish diplomatic relations and on and on and on. you know, i, i go ahead, i don't disagree with anything that has just been said, but i think the part i would add is that in the wake of 911 important voices in our society columnist for the new york times. people who worked in the office of the secretary of defense of people who were in the congress, not everybody, but a set of people needed a war. they needed a war as the way to respond to 911. and they, and,

and part of that need reflected their absolute conviction that if we went to war, particularly against a relatively weak figure, like saddam hussein in iraq, that we were going to triumph. we were going to, we're in a when big when quickly and, and, and, and scoop up all the chips. so the, the bush administration miscalculated on a variety of france. but the most tragic of those miscalculations was there absolutely unrealistic understanding of warfare and of how this particular war was likely to unfold. are there consequences that have not yet been revealed from this decision we took 2 decades ago? well, they have been revealed. they just not have not been recognized. oh, i'll,

i'll be guilty here. of vast oversimplification iraq gave us donald trump, if it weren't for the iraq war, and the catastrophe that it became, and the cost that we were obliged to to, to pay donald trump would never have become president of the united states. and, and trump isn't, you know, the sense of anger and aly ation, and alienation and division. that is such a, a undermines our democracy and powerful ways. trump ism, would exist. that i think would have been nowhere as influential as it has become. because of the iraq war doesn't really be living in paradise if the war hadn't happened. but i think that in many respects the most important negative consequences of the war are here at home in our democracy. one of the questions i have johnathan president biden was recently in poland. here's what he said is,

roadways us take is not just your craig is freedom. the idea that over a $100000.00 forces would invade another country after war since world war 2 or nothing like that has happened. did the president, the united states, forget what, in fact, the country he now leads did in 2003. i can't say that i'm not a speech writer, but i would up point out that he but nonetheless, he said, nevertheless, he said that in a line i would someone say a lot of americans have a real problem with even flirtation with the fact that there was moral equivalence here or something went on, but a lot of the world doesn't see that where they saw the united states go in without justification, particularly after the fact into innovation. iraq that it sees high will illegitimate. he had to point out that he was a supporter of the invasion right. of iraq. i'm talking about, but there, i, i, you know, i've spent a lot of time covering the war in ukraine as well. and i think ukraine is,

is probably the war that the bush administration would have liked to have fought in iraq. i mean, the, the differences are fast. another words, the justifications, it least in ukraine, those, the administration can make those arguments has made the arguments about, you know, trying to prevent autocracy from spreading of authoritarianism from spreading in europe in ukraine, being the front line. and this is an argument that has found a support not just within the democratic party, but more, but it split the republican party. you can see the split between most members, republican members of the senate and many in the house are supporting the war in ukraine. and, and, you know, you have to point out that back in the day before the invasion of iraq, it was a minority of, of people on both sides. i don't remember any republican who opposed it,

but i do remember some democrats who were very vocal about opposing the war and, and finding fault with the justifications that the administration was marching out . in fact, was one of those democrat that's who is then the header of the intel is senate intelligence committee, who is who, who, whose objections and, and arguments about we're not hearing anything new here, forced the administration to publish or to it's famous now famous national intelligence estimate on iraq's weapons of mass destruction, which ended up itself, was extremely problematic because they made arguments publicly that it did not make in the classified versions. and, and the differences between what they were telling the public publicly about weapons of mass destruction in iraq. and what they were telling people who had clearances were, were vast. and i, i should just quickly point out that one of the differences between what's happened

ukraine and what happened in iraq. is that the, i think the, the biden ministration looked at what happened in iraq, in terms of a, it's a cheating up public support. and they were out in front, before the russian invasion de, classifying intelligence about russian intentions that proved to be accurate as opposed to what the bush administration did with its so called intelligence on iraq's w. m t. right. i think this is a fascinating talk about, i think one of the other things that unfolded at that time and we heard it from then president bush and people like honda. lisa rice is that the venture into a rock was going to spread democracy around the world, was going to spread democracy on through the middle, middle east, that this was about democracy promotion. and if you're around the world today, jonathan land day, um, how does, what is democracy promotion translate to in foreign languages?

in fact, this was an arguing that was made, but particularly by the neoconservatives for a justify one of their justifications for invading iraq. because don't forget a, someone we haven't brought into this discussion was the former, the late head of the iraqi national congress. ah, is ahmed chalabi, who was there. so we used to see around town all the time. he was there and only weiss on in iraq and the base of it may not have found her if you spend a lot of time, andy, with the oc mcgraw but he was wondering, he want make it up to want to help her. but he was kind of the lynchpin in their, their strategy because he, there were 2 things he, he, he promised one that he was gonna a, bring them up. well, 3 things bring democracy on an established diplomatic relations with israel and allow the united states to put military bases in iraq. and this idea that by invading iraq, the united states could make the middle, we safer for israel and safer for democracy. i mean, if you look at it,

the middle east today at that, that hasn't happened at all. and, and, and in fact, you could say that there's still a lot of backsliding as well, backsliding in that regard. in the region. you know, and it's so, so no, it did that, that did not happen. and, and that was one of the things we were we looked at as journalists, when we were doing our reporting, was this idea that, that they would be able to bring democracy to the, to the middle east. one of the things that we, we determined when we were doing the reporting is while they were planning the war . there were various parts of the us government, national security agencies who were sending in analyses warning that no, this is not going to happen. and one of the things that could, could, in fact, very likely happen is, this is igniting this, this civil war, essentially between iraq, shia and sunni muslims. and that's exactly what happened. in fact, the, the, the,

the now head of the cia bill burns, wrote a paper when he was head of the middle east, a bureau at the nearest bureau. it state called a perfect storm war warning about what would happen in terms of unleashing ethnic religious strife. and, and as setting back a, you know, the possibility of democracy, that was one of the papers in what we did, we're told was an 18 inch stack of analysis from various parts of the government that was never read at the white house containing all of these warnings, my question is on this is just coming back, is it? i think it's very hard. you know, when you watch, you know, a lot of heroism among ukrainians, defending what's going on, fueled in part and supported by the west of, you know, are these conflicts, ones that have become defining for the west of certainly brought back nato?

are they worth the effort enterprise or are they are slippery slope to much greater dangers? you talk in your article in foreign affairs about a potential su as moment, which i think a lot about is there a moment out there where the world just all of a sudden no longer sees the united states as a major factor in defining the direction of the world and it becomes significantly weaker just by the change in attitude. what are your thoughts about ukraine today given our experience in iraq? well, i think, i think that there's a were repeating this crucial mistake. we were just talking about the idiot, logical framing of the iraq war, particularly in neoconservative headquarters quarters. rather. you know this, this is about freedom and democracy. we need to go to war to, to spread freedom and democracy. and when we, when a all kinds of good things here happened, i'm sorry to say that the biden administration is sounding some of the same themes

by, by framing the ukraine war as a war against autocracy for democracy. let me be very clear. you know, this is a war of aggression launch without any justification by vladimir putin that the resistance of the ukrainians is gallant. and you know, you, you have to be impressed. but this is not in particular about freedom and democracy . it's about the geo politics of a particular region in, in asia. and i think if we, if we look at it, look at the problem through a geo political lens, then it becomes at least possible to begin envisioning an off ramp that will lead to a diplomatic conclusion of the war. if we insist that this is about the survival of democracy in the 21st century, then it seems to me that the wars elected to go on for a long, long time. and that ain't good. let me ask you finally, jonathan,

i'm given what we now know about the iraq war, who perpetrated it, how it was justified. does united states have to have some form of reconciliation process with the iraqi people? do we owe them something for what we've done to their history into the region, or do we simply walk away justified at the time we thought we were right here it's, i think that's a hard question to answer. but i would posit the fact that we have troops, several 1000 troops are still in iraq, not as part of an occupation force, but part of this ante, isis a coalition. they went in, there were, at the invitation of the iraqi government when isis took over a great chunk of that, of that country. um and, and so is that a gesture also of how the united shades wanted to try it at least

safeguard something of ah, what it created in iraq in terms of a having you know, the shia majority grab, more represented in the government than they horror under the, you know, saddam a minority sunni, i can't answer that. certainly they were put there because of this threat to that was caused by isis. right. you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a great question. i'm not sure that i'm qualified to answer that, andy, do we just ask you the same question here? we need to do something on behalf of iraq to, to reconcile. here's the answer. the answer is, steve, is we're america. and therefore, we forget what we choose to forget and we live, we set aside any sense of obligation. think about vienna. we screwed up, we lost, we walked away. and we left the,

the vietnamese people wrestle with the consequences. because where america and this pattern of irresponsibility is very much part of our national, you know, behavior well, we will have to leave it there. that's a somber note on this 20th anniversary of the iraq war historian, andrew bass eviction journalist jonathan land a thank you. so much for your candor, for being with us today. great day. hi. so what's the bottom line? former national security agency director william odom once told me on a street corner here in washington that the invasion of iraq was, in fact, the biggest strategic mistake america had made in its history. it's true that america is still globally powerful, deploying drones in tanks and sanctions and power around the world. but something definitely has changed after iraq. that war plan to doubts about the legitimacy of american leadership in the world made international law look like the law of the jungle and sheared off the veneer of superpower mystique. by showing the limits of

american military force. america hasn't fully reckoned with the legacy of the iraq war, nor with the crimes committed, which were then used to ramp up recruitment by groups like isis and keep the cycle of violence going. in my view, iraq remains a significant black spot on the story of america's role in the world. but we have to remember history as it was not as we would have wished it to be. so that mistakes like this don't happen over and over again. and that's the bottom line ah, counting the cost us high interest rates, again, despite financial turmoil, plunged into darkness. towns, south africa, fixes electricity, right? it was 20 years after the invasion of iraq, zoom into the economy of opec. second largest spoil preaching counting the cost on al jazeera. ah imagine

a mosque without pres. oh, without a family in the country, without people. people, without that country. imagine fasting without ifta, rooftop without gatherings imagined compassion without action. oh, imagine ramadan, without giving millions of refugees are still upgraded from their homes, struggling to afford even their basic needs. now imagine what your donation can do . every gift counts. ah, hello, i am noisy in london with a quite look at the main stories now. paul recessive beginner is a man who say more than 1200 lie.