start also seeing some rather disturb weather as we go on through the next few days . hopefully the shower is not quite as wise, but as we make our way into work tuesday, but they are still there. nevertheless, temperatures now peg back in the hall to around $25.00 celsius, but they're picking up in new delhi to around $32.00 degrees. ah, it's a $1000000000.00 money known drink operation. the coal mafia is bigger than the company with financial institutions, regulators and governments complicit about ways all think with right, i've described that in a 4 part series. al jazeera investigative unit goes under cover in southern africa, pittsburgh. we can fill 90 percent of the government once it's declined. it's perfectly brandon, good part to on al jazeera, what's driving the recent unrest in kenya,

opposition leaders say they're protesting against the high cost of living. they also accused the president of stealing the last election. so can this be contained or will it escalate? this is inside story. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm cyril benya. kenya has seen several days of protests and unrest sparked by a rising cost of living and political divisions, opposition leader relo dingoes, leading the demonstrations while calling on his long to my rival president william rudo to resign a dingo last last year's election by a small margin to rudo, he says he was cheated out of victory will join our guests after this report from malcolm web in nairobi, people are demonstrating against the high cost of living prices. food and fuel have

been rising, and the government of president william retail has removed subsidies. its opposition leader. right? everything. who's called people to the street. he's also disputing the results of last year. the election. he's run for president 5 times before and he's never been declared the winner. but in some of the past polls, it was substantial evidence that he'd been rig out the victory. but last year the evidence was collision presented to the supreme court was not found compelling by the judges. and they held the election result previous rounds of opposition protests in kenya have led to royal or being offered deals or positions in government. but they've done little to alleviate poverty to address the stock inequality all the grievances on july. the reasons for people coming to the street this time around the repair to have been attacked on people and property like groups aligned to the government and the opposition side. on monday,

businesses belonging to royal everything and say, the former president who re kenyatta, who fax wider in the last election were attacked, will say, in the to be or informal settlement here when i robi, a church and a moth. and there were also widespread reports of violence targeting generally covering the protest by police by protested by gang religious leaders and rights groups. the cooling for com, people waiting to see if the tensions will escalate or if the politicians will come to the table and make more deals. malcolm web for inside story. last year's election results were very close and when i load in guy has rejected the results. the long time opposition leader has run for office 5 times and says he was cheated each time in 2017. the supreme court agreed with him and, and know the results. it said sound irregularities in order to re run, but

a dingo withdrew from that re run and at least a 1000 people were killed in the violence that followed the 2007 disputed election . so then go ahead, encouraged his supporters to protest at the time. let's welcome our guest now foreign. moline is a member of parliament, a member also of the wiper, democratic movement. a member of the opposition is in your coalition and the former deputy speaker of kenya's national assembly. thank you for joining us on the show. being a miss n o is the executive director of the daily africa and n g o, which works to increase female participation in politics and governance. and herman menorah is a political analyst and professor at the university of nairobi who voted for riley dingo. all of you are joining us from nairobi today, a warm welcome to each of you. formally, let's start with you. you're a part of the opposition coalition, which is behind these protests, but i understand you don't support people taking to the streets on this particular

issue. explain to us why? well, i don't support people 2nd to strip on this occasion democracy. the basic, very fundamental rules of democracy is that when you go for elections and you lose an election, you allow, we have a, has one but the election to begin running the government and being the governance district will not be in office now for hardly 6 months. i mean the about 7 months i think i usually takes the time for the government guys. it's so fun too many challenges. yeah. in any case, it's not our business to now tell the same government government will be featured as the last election, but we went ahead and even defeated us in the parliamentary elections because of the speaker council. beside the deputy speaker council. and then again, we tell them that you've both to, we went to court the supreme court,

we lost them up in the court. we accepted it the judge bent though, that holding up the quoted. so we said we're not happy with it. we accept it. and then we come back again until that some government look you. you want that election, not fairly, but it. and again, you have to do a, b, c, b, you must, oh, what to at? they're bringing down the cost of living in the country. you are mazda and check back a, i don't know the people who are called the to read a for people who and then it shouldn't be full. so basic, it is sent in conditions for a government that's there. on an open, the saba, i'm. it is done of things that the government can do because the sabbath under the control of an independent body called the i, you see the, the payment in it. so and bonded commission. so i, i think it's not fair we, we just can't go out into the streets because we lost the elections. we admit that we are september the 5th. we just have to give them an opportunity for them to start the planning the government. and then we will begin taking stock decking and

use whatever mistakes them bank and 5 years to inform kenyans and what as to when the next election. okay, there's a lot to unpack and everything you just did says a good thing. we have like 20 plus minutes to do that. bina, it is not. i take far as point that you have to let government govern, but it has the same time. the opposition is there to oppose the government and your take on what's happening right now. in the streets of nairobi and casino and other parts of the country. i think 1st of all, we have to acknowledge that some of the issues being raised by the opposition unit to protest a valid reason. but then also understand that we have a political issue and we have an economy issue and we have to see how to solve with of those issues. you know, we live in a country where we don't even trust the institutions that actually oversee election . and that's a form the basis upon which people don't trust whether the electrons are credible

or not. even though the supreme court did give our ruling and say that's the, legitimize election president william, brutal so long. i haven't strengthened the institutions that over the lectures, but citizens can actually trust that elections were free and credible. we are still going to see most of this problems, even in the next lecture on the 2027, about the cost of living. are we struggling with the high cost of living? we are, you know, the media in this country is 1000 years old. we have so many people who job less, right. and as you know, as the, you know, the bottom line is even for the citizens, we did elect our leaders to actually stop or what needs be done for me. stuff like that. actually going to will feel those promises when they are actually elected. so, i think also citizens a fed up when they see a little political and less work being done. and if i told walk in being done

behind the scenes, can that be explained to the public in such a way that we were supposed to be, let's say a month. but we are not able to achieve this because of these very reasons. so give us time to achieve abc, herman mon euro. we heard from both far and be know that there are really 2 issues at play here that are driving these protests. one is the high cost of living and there's just no denying that the, the price of petrol has gone up. the price of maze, which is essential for staple food has gone up. but another issue here is the political rivalry between a dingo, who narrowly lost the election to root ho and the president. do you think that these protests in your view are legitimate? do you think these 2 issues should be separated? i think there's no way you separate them because they are, sorry let's it on in terms of mobilizing on the part of the position.

they're the efforts of the much less effective if the issue of cost of living or than part of the deal. so yes, the citizens are unhappy with the cost of living, but also a significant part of the citizen discount is also i'm happy with the election results. so these 2 work together and window position is mobilizing, they're actually talking about the political issue, the legitimacy of the presidents under some time using the cost of living as i mean mobilizing workforce so they can, you can also put them up. okay, well as far as the cost of living is concerned, then do you hear far as argument that the government and this president need time to turn things around where it is going to need i. e o. even true. but in the circumstances where people could be dead by the time the time you're

asking for is you will have to move in thought you realize. ready into a number of kids. one of the reasons why the cost of living is high, especially muslim food on july. i think for fuel and food subsidies that would have crucial report attendance. water moved, and many people have this feeling, the push on the i am it from the world that is making the government do that. so there are some things you kind of weeks you can wait for long term measures to take place. but if people are dying, i can assure you, life in this country isn't better. and we're talking about reading pops the other living discussion. and if it is so much government can do in terms of, for example, in the district, that is so much better option. you don't have to deal with option and say, well,

this is the country that it can do later. and even a lot more that are beyond the government control that is beyond the government's control because of international issues. but years there are things that cannot wait. so far a farmer leave, do you support the stare at the measures that were put in place by this president and his government in order to secure that i am f loan knowing that the same austerity measures have either driven up the cost of living or kept the cost of living high for ordinary canyons the cost of living did not become high on the assumption of office of this current government. the cost of living was high even before that, as a matter of fact disabled. and because of the simple food they, they in the mail mail made me lose my expensive out time. so over $200.00. well,

over $200.00, it now is about $200.00, maybe less in some cases. and but, but you see, let me tell you, one thing you, we, we, this people, we, we were part of a kind of an informal cohesion through something called the handshake. when the mom a president and either i was quite his and either he basically got together. so for, for, for the whole of the big, the bulk of the last time, the 5 years of that tom and i made a list in the very least that was 4 years of that the, the current president was not in the mainstream. he was basically somebody was unwanted and, and, and, and we were, the solution was for us to moose and we, we lost it on the list because even to us as we are going to closer to the elections. ringback all the predictions, all the opinion polls did indicate that this was a very close cross election. i meant to close to court, and indeed it was too close to court because we were we, they want the very small magic driveway. the 2nd one. now for us to begin telling

them that we're going to people are going to die before the, the year ends. and for the 4 years before that, the current president was not. and nowhere near power, the power was basically concentrated in the former president on our own leader who we hoped to make the president i think, to say, will this is betty unfair and it's extremely honest. i need it because when you go to there it even without the subsidies, i believe the prices are more or less the same of what they want then so, so basically what we have also kind of a custody to this country is broke. this people took more of a brook a brooke, brooke insisted that there was no money, there were not reserves, there was nothing. and basically, everybody believes that this, this, while things are abused, the subsidies were abused and billions of p. a shillings was stolen through that. we need to have what is the credits of all that and things like that where that

money went. but it's only, it's only fair for us to give a little bit of time in the very least a year to this government for them to begin allow correcting the things and that. but the questions of things so, so i think if what has to come out into the open loop, you can help people demonstrate things like was to show wait is not the spontaneous demonstration that is being done by chance who are unable to bear the cost of living, no, it is one that is called for by our own collision poses the leader by loading that is the one who called for this demonstration. far if i remember, if i can just jump on. if i can just jump in here, should you still be a member of the, of the opposition coalition? should you be in a coalition with ry loading a given that so far you have been critical of the positions he's taken and you've been brother supportive. at least in this program of the government and you're in favor of giving them a grace period. should you really still be politically in a coalition with relo dingum? can i explain to you one thing?

it might cost the tracy i put in more and more resources to get all the votes for iowa. as a matter of fact that i loading i had over 20, about 23000 votes, my quasi trust the last election. well, router had only 508. most of them are not the locals, not by own people that you saw the government like us. so we did the thing we could have done. we were there on, i was on partition. i have been in the position myself for the longest, and i'm out of a principal, but the country is, is i my loyalty is more so to the country. i'm planning to be to. it has to be a principal. i made all it all to the best of it so much to an individual who's going to tend to wake up. well, in this direction, i mean the opposite direction and movement, the mo. most that you better people, the country, the people of the country. because of ala was the one who was defending the high cost of living, just before the election, and recorded. and then he suddenly comes out and say, the cost of living is the president. i'm calling for my section. it doesn't happen

like that. when the cost of living is high, it becomes a spontaneous is the muscle and able to build without cost of living and come out into the streets. this is different, this is the political, there was pressure on it. and by the way, the agenda can say that you promised to bring down the cost of living and you haven't broke it down. but who took a bath high up? there? it is a hulu. and layla was better cause team cut to sit there to listen to that time. so this one is the, in my opinion, is not somebody one house go loyalty to my loyalty to my country. i oppose them. i am not in the, in, in k k or what because that's what they call qualities. and now i'm still in my colleagues, but i don't like the way my, my, the leader of that colleagues of our specialize this thing. and i'm taking it to a different level. okay. all right. you are getting, you are creating a situation. we have had a similar situation before. when, when mosse action, i've got a 1000000 again sir. i've been thank that. thank you so much. and by the way,

just for 4 years were less familiar with the with canyon politics when you say, or who is responsible for the high cost of living. you mean, of course, the former canyon president to who are kenyatta bean at herman. i saw some raised eyebrows. i saw some smiles. let me see, let me go to you, been a, do you feel that the government deserves to be given more time to tackle cost of living issues? is it unfair for the opposition to try and put so much pressure on them now in the streets when they've been in power for what? just over 6 months. you know, 1st of all are if a total, actually this is a very critical election and to be go by the president winning the selection and if possible rescue. so it's saying the cost of keeping did not begin with the threat jim. so i think the reason perhaps for new leaders in there is going to what's needed is so that they can actually bring about that new change that we envision. it's because the promise in the right and on the promises and make this for me.

this during an extra that you know, what if you're let me am going to do x, x, y, z. so we are saying, yes, the government is broke, but it, but then other spend time when they think the government is group of people. us being a bluetooth government, you see people are complaining citizens are complaining because we are saying we inherited, you know, call us that option empty. we just appointed 50 chief administrative officer that didn't double the number for the office as we had in the last, in the last june, we had about 23. and this is an office on constitutional already. and if you look at also the individuals that we have actually appointed actually look, this struck me every day or the united canyons. i'm not the struggling young people probably cost less that we actually said we want to represent them when we elected . so, you know, like that's confusing made when we say we actually very book and then you come and

also just, you know, ex tanya government and we don't have to have resources that can actually be channeled to the basic needs. but events are actually talking about right there was patch. i read that shows actually because i think a month ago, if not 2 months ago, that's kenya spent 46 percent of their income. whether in all my employment, put a sense of the income goes directly to food. so how much are you left to spread across the ad, the needs where they said the patient where they show up, whether it's your own plus and i need your, you know, so how much are you left me and then talking about. so guys, i think 10 ends were being employed, who necessarily, i'm not even struggling kenyon, when we have the majority of the people who are jobless in this country. we have about a 1000000 people who graduate from institutions of higher learning, treasury education. as we have a, you know, to a job market that's can only accommodate 60000 people. so where do the rest go to,

you know, the majority of the citizens also employed and then from what economy, how investing in the corner me, how are we regulating been for more economy given that the same industry that are home with the majority of the women and the young people in this country who are the most vulnerable when it comes to struggling economy. so i think at the end of the day it's also for the president to understand that now is the presidential as the, as i said, not just the people who supported support that he so even with some of the polarizing remarks that he in this country that this government is for the shareholders. we are all supposed to be share with us. we are all with us having as a person in this particular country. you're supposed to be a national unity. and right now is the most important time to see how you actually promote day a such a time like this. when some people feel excluded. and it's not the fact that the building excluded. because if we don't handle the muscles correctly right now,

they're going to be low, but the next election and then next election. well, that's, that's undeniable. especially when you factor in the riley has run for office for the presidential office 5 times in a row last 5 times in a row contested the result multiple times. yes, there is a chance that some of this spills over into the next election. i think that's fair, herman been euro, you were raising your eyebrows earlier. what did you want to say? i was listening to my friend a family of a good friend of mine. and there he sounded like a gum, an apologist. ah, 1st of all, re, lo dingo is not part of their past government or yours. perhaps. plans are with the rural can outs are the former president and they had engage in as kind of zeus via but it wasn't part of government without us. it made it, it is also true like care. a good lady say's when you want to run gum and you

campaign to line. you know the problems you're going to fit so you cannot get that gum and again engaging next you this. and again, intellectual said to see which foreign marlene mother sing, one doesn't sing to wanting to more. certainly people kind of give you time if there are signs. if the, if the indicated that the tomorrow would be a better day. if you become president on the sort of team you put up the gun, men you put together doesn't inspire confidence. is a government that perhaps the made up of the was that you're going to collecting that country. you would was stretching imagination too far to expect the citizen that country to give that can that government a chance to better things tomorrow. secondly, the people can also bear with the governor, understand that these are hard times and give the government times to put things

together. but if done, gunman is engaging excesses in ex trouble. going. in sitting aside, a was $7000000.00 us dollars to buy cars for putting to be in excess of point mendo. vancho student looks us in a excessive club in in flood little of gum. mendoza's well bloated delegations in running down the country and homecomings on those little things we are going into the saucepan. you will be expecting too much from the citizens of that country . if you ask them to give them that particular government time. yes, government can be given time and indeed this should begin. but it must be indicated on the ground that that time am would be utilized in a, in a way that we couldn't believe will yield the fruit. but what is on the ground doesn't spot and it could have been of the door. but again,

what i said on these is a bit of an important, if the citizens of your country, i die and you, i am tired. and you are listening to a 3rd party who tells you, do not put stubborn measures in place or put position measures in place. when you know the break the box of your people. if you listen to a on his to show, like i may have to tell you know, subsidies and yet, you know, get away. your people are going to die. surely, that cannot be acceptable. not in the 21st century where the prison accounting must make it is a responsibility to ensure the people with scantron at least slight and leap just to survive. and therefore these kinds of things cannot wait. because if we wait, we are quoting a disaster. you can see the numbers in this trip to bear with re loading. those numbers are not, there we go, didn't necessarily believe in this issue was stolen election. the numbers are mainly there because of the challenges. economic challenges of the problem with

form of transport. herman, i want, i want to jump in because we have just 2 minutes left and i am sorry to interrupt you respectfully, i want to ask all of you, does there need to be a handshake moment? so for background, the head, what's known as the handshake moment in canyon politics is when a dingle stunned canyons, railer dingus done kenyans after being bitterly opposed to then president to who are kenyatta by turning around shaking his hand. and they had some form of informal coalition, and i couldn't call it co governance, but they came to an agreement after being bitterly opposed. formally new 1st. does there need to be a handshake move between president group and where i learn dingo. and we only have a few, a few moments left. i'll ask you to keep it short to begin with the cast that she brought to mr. secretary is that he has now a point. it was not something that's not that now there's a precedent. there was initially appointed by oh to pietro when it was head of

state and not now, but 10 years back. ok. number one, president in law, there's something called president when this thing has been there before. and his mind is just followed by them. the numbers. yes, you could debate the numbers. the 2nd thing is up. every time i need it, i need an answer. does there need to be a handshake moment? no, no, there is no need to be on sick between who you see. ready if we, if you're going to, if we're going to appreciate what's called a democracy, then we appreciate democracy within its complaints. and the way correct is the, all, not a democracy that's always of the election. negotiations that the elite, the power in the power it is that i mean by the president and the opposition guy now come again into another. another agreement that only some interests we have seen because many times before, right? we don't have enough time, but i will talk about it for days on end. and then they then my side one, another eagle, and i d. nothing gets corruption. does not get. yeah. they're going to have to get

employment book. it does not get them. it's just the 2 of them are going to sit somewhere and have a blanket between them. so i don't like myself. i've seen many of it before. ok, i'm afraid we're going to have to leave it there. but far molina been a messina, herman, and your i thank you so much for joining us. enjoying this panel today on al jazeera and thank you to for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website else is your comment for further discussion. good or facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter or handle at a j inside story. from me, several, any i seen here in doha, like ah,

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