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out 0. donald trump is the 1st former us president to face criminal charges in connection with hush money. pay to an adult film actor. he's as the prosecution is a witch hunt. so what does it mean for trump? a more broadly for american politics. this is inside story. ah hello the and welcome to the program. i'm laura kyle. donald trump is expected to appear before a new york court on tuesday. he'll be the 1st former or sitting us present to face criminal charges. those charges have not yet been revealed, but a grand jury has been investigating a payment in exchange for the silence of an adult film actress stormy daniels

allegedly had an extra marshal of fire with trump, which is always denied if the money was paid and not disclosed and joined the 2016 election campaign, it would amount to a criminal offense. media reports in the u. s. suggests the former president may be facing other charges. tom denies all wrong doing and says he's the victim of a witch hunt by the democrats. accusing them of trying to prevent his return to the white house. the man he serves as his vice president says trumps political opponents are behind a prosecution. first let me just say, i think the unprecedented indictment of a former president of the united states for a campaign finance issues and outrage. ah, and i think it's, it's clear to the overwhelming majority of american people that this is nothing short of a, of a political prosecution being affected by a manhattan da who literally campaigned on bringing charges against one particular

american. and i must show you that that should be offensive to every american left, right, and center, what every american deserves equal treatment under the law. and i believe the american people will see this for what it is. so how did the american people see it for get some analysis from august in just a moment, but on the streets, the opinions as sharply divided from got arrested for the charges they're talking about now. ah, i would vote form 10 times over. okay. because if he was a democrat, it would never come up. and i don't believe i just don't believe this. anything through it and even of the roof. so what i'll do is i'll put 5 light. yeah, i know that donald trump's ring arrests are invited for maybe a possible restaurant this week. and i think that's just the far left again, just another attack on donald trump and they're getting very tiresome. and

again, donald trump is for america and he fights for americans the far life doesn't like that. and so that's why they keep attacking. well, i just think that he has to accept his responsibility for all the things he's done . this has been a lifelong thing with him. he's been doing the wrong thing. if it was any other american citizen, he would have been in jail a long time ago. there should be a lot more pieces come in his way. but absolutely we're, i think it's about time ah, okay, that spring in our guests and in washington dc, adolfo franko, republican strategist and chief counsel to a chairman. the international relations committee of the us house of representatives from philadelphia. clare finkelstein as a professor of law and faculty director at the university of pennsylvania's center

for ethics and the rule of law. and in cancun, mexico is rina shaw the founder of relax strategies, a political and public affairs communications firm. she's also a former republican party political advisor, a very warm welcome to all of you, adolfo. let's start with your reaction to this indictment because you've called what trump is going through here. political martyrdom, what you mean by that? well, persecution 1st and martyrdom, what whatever happens here to the damage has been done, even if the president is found to be guilty. but one of the things that you failed to do in your intro is to report that these matters, of course, are 7 years old, have been looked at by the federal authorities, the f, b, c, federal prosecutors, and in fact mr. bragg himself. and they were all discarded and bound to be baseless in terms of any violation that would be pursued. so. ready they were never pursued

in effect state statute. this is based on has expired, the misdemeanors state prosecutor. so it's a novel theory of bootstrapping this to go back to a suppose a federal felony that already had been dismissed by the f, b, c and federal prosecutors. but what i make a part from that, that is why this is nonsense to begin with is this is part of, i think round 9 or 10 trying to we will get donald trump. there was a call for his impeachment by one of the impeachment managers by the way, before donald trump took office. so this is ben, the democratic play book from the beginning of eliminating donald trump as 1st of all, a president. initially, i to trying to remove him before he was even sworn in, which is, which is silly. and of course, now preventing him being the republican nomination from being elected again,

what i make of it is about the democratic party that donald trump would be nominated and elected and 2024. so it's a tragic day for our country. and for the rule of law, ok, i'll bring in reno in just a moment to respond to some of what you've said. the 1st one is want to pick up on the statute of limitations. the case being 7 years old. it's an interesting point that has been brought up quite a bit in the media class. you're an expert in these masses. explain what this means because the statute of limitations it has indeed expired, has met for misdemeanors and felonies in this case. but i understand that new law has a couple of ways of stopping the clock. can you explain a few of these technicalities for us? well the 1st and most important thing i want to say in response to adolfo, is that we have not seen the indictment yet. so i think all judgments about the strength of these charges needs to be delayed in till we see the indictment. ah,

we understand report has it that it's about a 3034 count, indictment. i'm having to do with the fact that there were a series of payments to stormy daniels, plus a number of other charges under new york law. and. and we just have to wait and see what they say and to see what the evidences are that may not be unsealed anytime soon. unless donald trump himself decides to reveal it or it may be revealed after the arraignment of which by all reports is going to happen on tuesday. um, the details on new york law um are a complicated but it is understanding that there are reasons why the statute of limitations does not apply in this case. and,

and that the fact that it is a that there is miss reporting on donald trump. a donald trump's um finances and repeated occasions um relating to this boost this to a felony from a misdemeanor and that therefore the statute of limitations is not run. ok, rita, let's pick up on an on the other part of a dull 1st statement is him. this is the democratic play book. this whole indictment with the democrats have tried many times before to remove from from running for president. is this not just another case of the same thing playing out? what do you think of this indictment in washing donald trump? over the years i've seen his behavior become more erratic as he gets more scared of losing power. and of course, he lost

a 2020 election. he was in peach 2 times in congress, but he was not at no charge with them and kicked out of office basically, you know, there was no crime that he was ever charged for before. now, and i think that's a really important distinction we have to make is that there were always accusations. there were always allegations, but this was a long time coming. i always had felt of for years that trump would be the one to do himself in. he plays fast and loose with the rules. he's often made statements over the years whether he was in the white house or not sorted, saying that i'm above the law. and well, in the united states, we know that we have a constitution, nobody's above the law. a former president especially does not stand before you know, any special tribunal or anything they're equal. and like every other american citizen, they, they face the same again a jury of their peers, the same laws they're held accountable to. and that's one thing that i think is sort of been lost here because it has been a long time this investigation took

a while and came from the manhattan district attorney's office. i understand how people feel that this is confusing and why now. and how did we get here? and because this indictment, the charges are still sealed, we don't fully know. but i think it's important to also say what, what is the biggest takeaway here? it's that we are need to know laws and that the rule of brought my daughter supreme . the minute a newly elected president takes fields of office that former president becomes a private citizen. and that is what i see happening here is the wheels of justice holding donald trump and now private citizen accountable. it's the same laws that i'm accountable to americans that i consider for wanting to jump in him. well, there's a lot to unpack here. let me start out with comments. first of all, about power and the rest of it. we're talking about events that were 7 years ago. this has nothing to do with donald trump doing himself ban. this is rewriting history here. first of all,

the the stormy di daniels controversy are merged before the election. rina and the american people decided to elect president trump. the idea there, rina's comment that this hasn't been looked at. it was investigated for years by federal prosecutors who couple of them even went over this matter for years and by mr. bragg himself. this was resurrected by a political hack. albin, brad, who is a politician. he's runs for election. you said in the campaign he was running to get donald trump bully. that's the rule of law. we're holding rena persecution when somebody doesn't even have the evidence and they're running on getting someone here . so this is a confirmation of this being exactly what has been from the beginning with the legal theories. you're absolutely right, player, although a lot of leaks have been made even about the indictment is mr. bragg going to prosecute the people that are leaky. that's a felony. i haven't seen any remark in that. any effort in that effort any

a remarks regarding any effort to do so. 34 couch. you can take it as a lawyer and i am a lawyer. you can take anything and chocolate up to 34 pieces. you're absolutely right. we don't know there's anything new. what, what is new here? this is never been done in new york. this is unprecedented. the statute as indeed expire. there's a statute of limitations that we have not without that in a gray area that is a gray area. well, one of the see it is that it's important understand this idea of 30, this idea of 34. i will see what they are. you'll see most of those dismissed and chopped up. you can just because you say 3rd a we're time. let, let thank this is all speculation at this point. let's wait until as you say, we see what the charges are on. choose day clair. why, under, under, if it does bring up a good point, why does alvin brag pursue this case? this inquiry has been opened a shot. so many times, it's got the nickname of a zombie case. it's predecessor decided not to chase it. why has he gone for us?

ok 1st let me just for one second circle back on the schedule to limit. here's an additional that i forgot to mention, which is that donald trump is been out of the jurisdiction continuously. so in addition to the fact that felonies have a longer statute of limitation than misdemeanors, he has not been in the jurisdiction. and the statute of limitations is what's called told us means meaning that the statute of limitations stops to run when the defendant is not in the jurisdiction. now, on the issue of why i often brag as bringing this case it's, it's rather a matter of why it wasn't brought before. i would say, um, because, um, you know, the predecessor cyrus vance, to alvin bragg. i'm, it seemed, was about to bring the case. everybody thought it was going to be brought, or at least something this domain was going to be brought. and then he suddenly

retired. and there's been nonstop pressure not only from donald trump, of course, but from trump's, a supporters and adherents. and, and even from members of congress, the threats to album rang in the last week own, or who ran this racist threats, threats that he's being a supported by george soros, anti semitic threats. therefore, and, and, and a picture that donald trump posted with himself, with a baseball bat next to the head of alvin, brag so. it's rather extraordinary that alvin bragg has the courage to go ahead and bring it at all a given the, the threats and lack of forthright support of from the justice department. the justice department should be out there making statements that given that the case has been wrought, whether they would have brought it at this moment or not that they will support alvin bragg and make sure that justice is done. we don't,

didn't do you think that alvin bragg is, is right to bring this case. i mean, it does sound from what class saying that he's taking an incredibly brave, a brave road. forget break. he took his time. he took a lot of time to get to where we got to this past week and, and i think that's one thing we ought to be. feel good about as, as americans, if you know, confident that our justice system takes time and being, you know, look, justice is only there. it's accountability comes 1st and, and this is the thing about former president trump, in his supporters. they think they, they say something enough times that it becomes true. and i think i say this, i say if we are a nation of laws, we should want somebody held accountable for breaking a law regardless of when that was. and, and i, i really believe that donald trump stands to only certain himself from this whole thing. he wants to be a lead on what is quote, unquote, per block. he wants to be seen in handcuffs, that he can raise money and elicit more sympathy. i think this is a fantastic time for the republican party to break away from trump. this case is

probably the smallest of all the legal charges that trump has been accused of over the years. but it's always struck me, the hypocrisy, the family values, party, the publican party. but i mean my career in a what for many a candidate, what for many, an elected official, that was a republican, that always put family values 1st. and here we have a case we will have a former president when extramarital affair, while his wife was pregnant, i must die. it's disgusting. prior to becoming a candidate and wanted a hush off this born star. and here we sit and, and the republicans are carrying the water for this night. it's absolutely disgusting. michael cohen, the former lawyer to donald phase charges, he did time he paid, he did the crime. he did the time for trump's actions. now trump himself is being held accountable, and i think the republican should just divorce themselves. and donald trump, he's a ticking time bomb. he's near 80, who's in narcissist. he comes with a load of problems,

time for the republican party to choose someone new to put up in 2024. donald trump is not the die. adolfo, are they going to do that? it's a lot there to let me just answer your question because i just don't was to do it. the only person that's 80, by the way, it is, the current president of donald trump's not i mention he but, but i mean, there's a lot of, you know, about album. let me say about album brag. being brave album brag is a hack. he's trying to run for a run for attorney general or governor brave. this is just made himself history loving brave about a dozen or you know, and the reason that don't forget the raise a ton of the reform discussion. album bright perhaps has become slightly sideline because that's don't forget, that is actually a grand jury chunks. peers who have decided to move forward, you know, and let me tell you about grand juries. 98 percent of grand jury is return indictments grand jury if you don't have

a defense. grand stories spray saying you can get a ham sandwich. indicted by a grand jury. so don't give me the grand jury stuff. anybody can get indicted. not message just to show it is 98 percent. that's not a made up number. that's the exact number. so that's that nonsense as well. this. this is rina has said, you've shuddered her remarks so much for the rule of law. she's already convicted donald trump. so let's just dispense with the trial. this is, this is i'm for job making. now that if you're a delivery guy, i think you're still overcome. we don't know that you're here. is the law in here. you don't want to respond. no, no, no, hold on. i know i do believe we are a nation of laws. this was examined. this was then recently i want to people how to can years ago there brian, you should be ashamed of yourself. were supporting such mom, adolfo, and so now we're going to the republic use a d i c. and what is the only thing i want?

so i can just jump in when i please jump in. what, what, what by delivery of a good question. the process has been full, edwina does make the point. this is taking the extraordinarily long time. there is the president ultimately and take a long time. you're misleading your mist, picking the audience here. this has not been 7 years. this was an up, as you reported earlier, just your own comments just was an open and shut case this case was shot by the price by his predecessor, this was looked at for years for years and determined there was no basis this guy just ran for office on a get president trucking agenda, it's very reason this isn't take a long time, doesn't when exam, no ordering and class at this point class. how important is it that this case is brought against trump and that trump dance onset to it and not undermine it? listen, i have something to say to both of your other guests, which is in this country. we have something called the presumption of innocence,

and it applies every one who is indicted for a crime. every one who has brought up against criminal charges, every one who has to face a jury and it applies to donald trump. so when he is indicted and when he is arraigned and when he faces the jury, if he faces the jury, he will benefit from that same presumption, adolfo, you should want him to face a jury if these charges are still hanging around in the background. because as a political candidate and as an american, he needs to be cleared. if he is not guilty of them, you should not be yes earned. where as are you not making a point with charges to the charges have been brought in of birth. like i said, this is a political agenda, if, if he is not guilty of the charges,

he ought to face the jury, he ought to testify. you ought to give his address. lucian, i've been here, hulu, and what this is plenty. perhaps you hand some hand in mine, so i do not believe that the mailing was examined. just political no prosecutor wants to face the storm of attacks that alvin bragg has been facing his life. as a result from doran's charge, a storm hearing room on this, he ran, he ran, i getting. okay, i don't, i don't, rand requested him. i have a question, adolfo, we have a man here who is the former president of america. he's running to become the next president of america, undermining the systems that america is built on undermining the rule of law, saying that this is a political witch hunt. how damaging is that for america that you have a man who's living in undermining the citizens?

it is based on but this isn't president trump just saying this, this is virtually every elected republican and tens of millions of americans. political persecution is political persecution, just because a prosecutor has a political agenda. he's a politician allen bride and he ran mothers proposition. you can't hide it under the rule of wall a. this is proctor, somebody called in our system as well, to educate the audience called prosecutorial misconduct. and this is what's happened here, and this is when somebody is out to get some one. again, this case has been reviewed by democrat a prosecutors federal government and there was a bonnie, there was no basis that wasn't a now. so we have to come back and resurrected even on novel theory. ok, there isn't a jump in here again because i want to have a right out of time. i do want to look ahead slightly to the next election. donald

trump's already announced his campaign. we have got an interesting situation where his main rival phenomena is one de santis. he has fallen in line behind donald trump. how has all of this going to affect the republican campaign for 2020 full rena? yeah, right now it's of, it's not surprising. the governor de santis is trying to appeal to those voters who are still stuck by trump side. that's the make america. great. again, movement tight, but the november 20 a excuse me. these past november mid term elections really told us of the mca candidates do poorly. i, senator mitch mcconnell himself is mark many times about the poor candidate quality . the donald trump is created in the republican party today. governor de santis is strategic playbook in my estimation, and i'm not currently advising him. is that he wants to see how much of the maggie university can tear away from trump. and he will take his time. he is not officially announced for 2024. he wants to see how he can sort of softly peel away

again, that demographic and have them come with him in due time. i think governor de santis is also estimating like i am, that trump will not see this whole thing through that he will not make it to the general of 202424 if you will drop out perhaps in the early primaries just because he wants to he's a guy that kind of does whatever he wants to, and i think you'll fund raise until he feels he's just too tired because this is what this is all about. that is why you hear elected republicans still sticking by trump side. they still see the power of his fundraising and governor to santa sees that to claire. if we look at the timeline for this trial, it could be well into next year, getting very close to the actual presidential election. can you fill a set on, on some of those, the details of this timeline? yes, and that indeed is my concern, which is an end, unfortunately, is feeding the narrative that this is politically motivated. of the justice department has much, much serious rentals that could come out of a special council,

namely seditious conspiracy or insurrection relating to january, 6th and possible espionage charges relating to the moral lago classified documents issues and a family willis as well. and as a, i think that alvin brad considered that it was better to get started than to wait to bring these charges much closer to the election. so already there is a, you know, sort of a feeling of the narrative as we hear here from our friend had a whole fo, that this is politically motivated because he's under that women have no doubt that the timing on the declaration of his candidacy had very much to do with um of concern about charges that were to be brought against him. but we cannot allow our justice system which should be neutral with regard to politics and which i hope all is well with regard to politics, be held up because of electoral cycles because anyone could avoid charges by simply

declaring themselves as it gather. okay, so it's really is trial is seen, worry wire and work wired or you wanna do 3rd drama work. it'll northward 0, just wanted to rec, so on says slightly because trump is facing it's a fight. many other cases for inciting the capitol, riot, interfering with the elections, housing classified documents. should he be held accountable for any of these? what do you have a tangible you've done? that's a loaded question. accountable for something, he's not responsible for your job. you're held accountable. this is, as i said, chapter 12 or 13. again, donald trump, all of these charges are, let me make this clear. the person bringing these charges in new york is a politician, a democrat who ran for office state. i'm going to get donald trump. if that doesn't tell you what this agenda is, what is it?

this idea of the rule of law and justice is the system once it gets to court, not the prosecutorial abuse that has taken place here by a political hack. and this is the rest of this nonsense. the same thing happened with the impeachment. all of this has been political and donald trump has only become stronger as a consequence, and we'll widely be the next president of the united states. oh, that's very interesting. i thought to fail on to finish on ok. thank you very much to all august. that's been a fascinating discussion and my son is going to be following this story very closely over the weeks. months indeed, yes, ahead adult. i find k class finkelstein and shaw. thank you and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again. any type of a single website that's al jazeera dot com for further discussion. do go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. it was a during the conversation on twitter, $100.00 at ha, inside story from me laura kyle and the whole team here. it's my family.

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