the area is also home to some of mere mas, ancient crafts. in a nearby village, they make lac aware the old way twisting finely cut bamboo before applying the dark resin. once hardened the finished product carved and colored a skill that takes years to master. but this workshop has already lost 85 percent of its customers and 2 thirds of its craftsman, if they're tourist no, come to began. so we were loose. were loose. oh our generation luckowitz generation and your businesses were yes, yes. oh, and well, life has returned to normal here. the fighting isn't far away. the military has told us, we can go no further than this. here what a river has become a dividing line and central myanmar. on this side, the tranquillity of began on the other. what appears to be a full blown civil war,

and they say at night, if you listen carefully, you can hear the shooting on the other side of the river. the day before, there were reports that 50000 people had fled the fighting in nearby meal. some of whom are now seeking shelter in the historic temples and monasteries of this ancient town. tony chang al jazeera, begun central miramar. ah! this is our desert easier. top stories as early forces have stormed the alex and mosque in occupied east jerusalem. they fired, rubber coated bullets and stung grenades during ramadan. prayers is 7. palestinians have been reported injured. israeli forces accusing worshippers of barricading themselves, aren't exceeding the agreed timings. natasha g. a name has more from occupied, su, islam, the know, according to the israeli police, that 350 people have been arrested. 7 were injured. paramedics from the red

crescent said that there they were attacked and there ambulance damaged. the israeli police, as this began over night, as they attempted to disperse hundreds of people who had, quote, barricaded themselves inside the oxen mosque. on tuesday, there were call circulating on social media for palestinians to come to them off to quote, defend it from the occupiers. and israel is carrying out as strikes in garza in response to rocket fire. it comes off to 11 rock, had struck from garza into southern israel. number of them have been intercepted. former us president donald trump has addressed his supporters in florida to pleading not guilty to 34 felonies of falsifying business records from describe the case against him as election. interference from the beginning. hurries president deena baldwin, taste vibes, and impeachment, bit of a handling of anti government protests. congress has rejected

a motion to remove law, say, the unrest broke out in december after the removal of had left his predecessor pedo castillo, dozens of demonstrations calling for new elections. died in confrontations with security forces. us south korean and japanese warships have wrapped up a 2 day excise in the east china sea. intended to increase their readiness in the face of escalating threats. and missile launches from both korea and north has recently tested what it is described as a nuclear capable, under water attacked room. there's a headlines the stream coming up next. talk to al jazeera, we ask who is really fighting this russia? isn't wagner, or is it the russian or military? we listen, we started talking to me on my own so that this via your citizen dish look to get him back. we meet with global news makers and talk about the stories that matter on

al jazeera. i am josh rushing. welcome to the stream. electric vehicles have been held as a central to reducing carbon emissions in order to avoid global climate catastrophe . but as a transition to battery powered vehicles, picks up speed questions remained about the sustainability of the cars and the environmental and social harms that go into making them. so today we ask how sustainable are electric vehicles? first, let's hear from jim warming time at human rights watch with his thoughts and nature . cars are definitely part of the solution to climate change. but building electric cars means we need war materials, things like co lithium, aluminium and steel. and getting those materials out of the ground through my knee is often really damaging to the environment and to human rights. so as we transform

the car industry, we've also got to transform the mining industry transform. the way we source will materials that means doing a lot more recycling. but it also means treating the ecosystems and communities where these vital war materials are found. with the respect that those communities and ecosystems deserve you're wanting us to discuss alyssa kendall, professor of civil and environmental engineering at the university of california davis in oslo. christina bu secretary general, the norwegian e v association. and with us from london, henry sanderson, author of volt rush, the winners and losers in the race to go green. and of course you, we want you to join this conversation as well. so see that box over there with lie producer waiting to get your comments to me so i can get them to our guest. so how about we do this thing together, right. are henry, i want to begin with, you can you set us up here with one why it's important to transition to ease. but

let's just begin with that. why is it important right now to transition to evey's? yes. say to reduce carbon emissions and limit the thomas from climate change. we need to, to carbon eyes pretty much every, every sector. and transportation is one of those key sectors which accounts for about 1516 percent of global carbon emissions. and as the i t c. c, set this week we have a window of opportunity. we need to move fast. and what's so important about electric vehicles is we have the technology at scale. now we have a cost of come down a lot. and electric vehicles, i think work for, for most people. so what we need to do now is scale up batteries, scale up electric vehicles and replace the, you know, eventually the 1500000000 vehicles on the road. but it is a massive task ahead of us, but the good news is we have the technology at scale and the costs of come down significantly in considering the environmental news this week,

the i p c. c report came out saying that we've got about 10 years left before it may be too late to stop. what's coming this, this transition needs to happen fast. we turned to norway, where i think 80 percent a new car sells their r e v is compare that to the us where it's going bass here, but when we up it up by percent, a new car sales r e v 's. so my question for you, christina, is, is how does a society transition quickly enough? because i imagine they're all sorts of effects that happen when you shift that quickly. yeah. and just to make sure we talk about the same thing, ease 80 percent, e v. this doesn't include plug in hybrids. it's fully electric cars. and so that was said last year and, and now we're actually yeah. above that as well. so far this year. so and what normally has done is really simple. it's possible to copy for pretty much every country. it's all about green, texas,

so it's about taxing and petulant diesel engine cars on, on the sale of the car. and then a, not tux evey's, because evey's a still and more expensive to, to manufacture. and therefore consumers, most places can't afford them. and a norway, we've managed to make the prize more or less equal. and that has resulted in an m mays. same development. the last 10 years we moved from a 3 percent market share to, to above 80. wow. we have some video comments from people in our community. this in a met on this, this is from david. right. both. he's a senior engineer at union of concerned scientists. her listen of us transportation is the largest cause of he trapping emissions united states and passenger vehicle for the single largest source within that sector. switching from gasoline and diesel cars and trucks to electric vehicles means no tailpipe emissions that are harmful to human health and fuel climate change. even when

considering manufacturing electric vehicles are responsible for less than half the lifetime global warming emissions of similar gasoline vehicles. so switching to electric vehicles as soon as possible is critical to avoiding the worst impacts of climate change. so alyssa, after a century of being on fossil fuels, were cars. it seems like we hope we have learned some lessons, maybe about the way not to do this. and this is a chance to kind of start over and start over a new what are some things that we should be looking for here for the way that this industry is gonna change the automobile industry in the coming years? yeah, that's a great question. so, i mean, i think what we've seen is that the, the world is asking that we don't ad undertake this transition and moving away from internal combustion engine vehicles to battery powered vehicles without improving our history of the communities at that are affected by the production of vehicles

and in particular the battery for electric vehicles and asking that we do better. and i think we're seeing a movement in many parts of the world, but particularly in europe to really push for up for different rules for how he make batteries and make sure that some of the human rights violations and environmental disasters that are may occur. and that really we, we prevent that. and so i think that we are, we are looking to make this transition to sort of, to avoid the mistakes of, of the last 100 years as we do undertake this transition. the other thing to point out of course, is that we need to de carbonized our electricity grids along with vehicle electrification. and if, if we couple those together, that's where we get those really deep reductions in greenhouse gas emissions and other pollutants. so this is a 2 pronged effort electrify the fleet, and d carbonite c electricity grits. oh, i want to bring in some comments, offer you to people who are watching this right now. this is from jen jeer, dano, a mystic mentor, says, don't we need gas and oil to make evey's any way. henry,

i'm gonna bring that to you. but there's also a video comment that i want to bring in, because it's not just the lithium in the battery. it's other miner's minerals as well. why? coble right down in the congo here. let's check out this video comment 1st. one of the most urgent ethical considerations regarding the manufacturer of electric vehicles is the mining of cobalt cobalt is used in the battery packs of most electric vehicles and about 3 fourths of the world's supply of cobalt is mind in rather appalling conditions. the democratic republic of the congo, hundreds of thousands of people work in highly toxic hazardous and dangerous conditions to scrounge cobalt out of the ground and feed it up the chain to electric, vehicle manufacturers and big mining companies have destroyed the environment clear cut millions of trees and dump toxic affluence every day into the earth, air, and water in the congo. so, henry, now i want you to talk about the, the problems with this kind of new extraction industry. but i'm gonna play one more

video for you as, as perhaps one of the solutions. i'm not sure if you've seen this, but it's this kind of battery passport. and maybe we can talk about that as well. to check out this for the battery passport, create a digital twin of the battery that stores all information about the battery in the cloud. from where the minerals and metals of the battery are mind and refine to where and how the cells is the battery or me. and where the cells are put together to form the battery that will go into the vehicle. the battery gets an id number, a bar code, and other information which are sent to the digital twin in the cloud. the digital twin holds all the important information about that battery, and the battery passport platform holds all of the digital twin from all over the world. are henry. so i need you to reconcile this for me because i read a and see new source all the time from the congo, or you see, you know, kick kids out there to dig this up and really dangerous conditions. ah,

not environmentally friendly. and then i see an animation like that with really chip or music and i'm trying to figure i it, is this theoretical or is it actually going to be better this time? yes, so there's a really good question. so taking, taking that the 2 questions on, on the oil, the viewer is exactly right. if you look at the lithium ion battery, most tv, especially in china, the, they can contain a material called graphite. and some graphite synthetic graphite is made using feedstock from the oil industry. so fossil fuels is going directly into a lot of lithium on batteries. and also we need diesel and fossil fuels. not the most mining rights are most minds you, diesel trucks. they use fossil fuels, the process, lithium, many people don't realize, natural gas is part of the process. so it's very hard to get rid of natural gas in the process of processing. lithium,

i said awesome fossil fuel angle. the co tango is ready robinson. i'm actually reading the book of that person who submit to that video clip and i've been to see myself. and it is incredibly problematic. but, but what's happening and why i write my book is to open our eyes to, to supply chain. in the hope that we can improve it, and we're seeing assets by the d. c. government, by other groups to try and improve the situation to try and make sure these people get got a fair price, get safety equipment, etc. of course it is a huge challenge and no one's saying that is going to be perfect tomorrow, but we shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of this energy transition. we have to move towards the bees and we can improve our supply chain right as well. if we are aware of the problems, we can apply our innovation and our skills to improve it and fossil fuels. we can to colonize the mining industry. we can do colonize the way these materials are

processed and for cobo, what we need to see is, yeah, some, some, we need to step in and engage with a d. c and acknowledge our responsibility for this call is coming out of the country. we need automated companies to, to properly engage on to go to the country to visit on cuz for too long, especially for consumer electronics, we just turned a blind eye on to you to the cobalt. so guardians, what are devices, all small things, certain factors is green. good is an advantage because people care about how it's made. christina, look it over to jump in there. yeah, i could add to add to that because i had an organization in norway or who right. that represents more than a $120000.00 e v drivers. and we've asked them an almost 90 percent to confirm that they are very eager to know and how sustainable a battery is and how, you know, workers' rights are, you know, looked after and, and so on. so and,

but i think also we have to look at a broader picture here and with congo. and especially it's been a lot of talk about congo, but we also have co bolts, other places in finland, for example. and another thing is that an amnesty international which has focused a lot on congo and, and childs child labor and so on. they are not, they are not saying that we should stop to import, stop importing, cobbled from congo. and what we have to do is to make sure that just the whole value chain of battery is a says sustainable, and that we know exactly what's going on because there are also mines in cobalt that are as well and well regulated and, and good minds. but they're also little irregular minds as well. so we have to make sure that, i mean, it's not good for the people who congo that if nobody wants to trade with them either. so we have to sort of think about the whole valley chain and i, and as,

and we're talking about earlier, europe is really up for frontier with that the new battery regulation and demanding and demanding base and a university that sense. you could also say that with ease actually more focus on base because cobalt has been used air with the fossil fuel cars for a long time as well. it's also used in fossil fuel cars is only when we get more environmental li, friendly cars that we're focusing on it. so in that sense, you could say that and the fact that we are getting even on the road is also helping out helping a whole production. allison, who did you want to jump in there? yes cohort. i also wanted to add a, i think i'm just as christine said, it's wonderful that we have much more focus on the environmental, you know, sort of the environmental impacts and environmental justice concerns with the electric vehicle and battery value chain in particular. and i want to highlight that, you know, it's easy to start demonizing this one part of the vehicle this,

these challenges of these new supply chains that are forming. but actually this is a great advantage because we are not going to change the fossil fuels value chain just by continuing to drive gasoline vehicles, though we can do better. but we shouldn't allow the challenges of the evie value chain to prevent us from electrify the others of the group one, alyssa, but i think we won't do better unless we actually see where those challenges are. and christina, you mentioned cobra comes from other places. i'd like to bring in one of those other places. this is a, another voice from someone in our community name stephanie ting, kill her son. and she is a documentary filmmaker listen of. so when people buy the chinese new tests, i don't think about the cost that is being paid to create that vehicle that is being paid for elsewhere. other parcel world that is not in the western market in the western and closely followed by western media. and so when we want to think about intern miracles, how can we have that in a way that has governmental oversight, corporate responsibility. and that is,

well wash and well maintained when, although it's being built, this that, you know, in this car is going to save the world and that simply isn't too. and there's so much it in cost that is being paid for my other people in my life and parts of the world like my what's what stephanie says, parts of the world like mine. she's actually talking about indonesia and that's where a lot of nickel nickle comes from. so here checked this up. yep. i told them up they their minds down here, the mud is all over the sea. now, where can we go? how can we survive for the economy for education? the parents today already struggling? so what can we expect for the next generation given the current condition of the surrounding environment? lucy alamo. what if i any bone? thank you said i couldn't believe all the club trees had been cleared. i was shaking. it was our source of income. we were dreaming about sending my child to college. when we went up to find the trees were all gone. i was devastated me. so

alyssa seems like there's like an imbalance in the relationship with wealthy countries, like the u. s. in norway. great, great examples that need the stuff, but they're getting it from countries as we mentioned, congo and indonesia. ah. how do you correct that and make sure that they're doing it in an appropriate way? yeah, that's it. that's a great question. there are so many burdens faced by lower and middle income countries in particular that are providing materials for electric vehicles and potentially and taking used vehicles at end of life as well. and so they are likely to, to have a disproportionate burden associated with these vehicles and not have the climate in air quality benefits that richer nations are, are benefiting from. i do think there are, there are huge challenges to this, but i'm the work to put together. for example, the battery passports are there can be accountability in the value chain is extremely important. and again,

europe is leading the way on that. i also think the consumer demand for o, for materials and for manufacturing practices that are, that are more just is also really important as a driver for the industry to do better. and then also to have really, you know, explicit, convers night conversations, the policies in place. i'm to make sure that we don't have sort of a race to the bottom when it comes to sourcing of materials. but also disposal of batteries and, and again, you know, having a holistic approach to policy the way that europe is trying to do with its battery regulation, i think is a really good model and a good start. and places like the u. s. for example, nita nita started thinking about that since we, we haven't really pursued a holistic policy for henry, not just the production of it, but i want to bring in a voice or from the youtube audience. who's watching right now, ma'am? ma'am, ma'am? mickey says wire electric vehicle so expensive, and when will they fixed the planet? and part of that, what i'm wondering is, is when will we see these kind of vehicles be affordable enough that the global

self will start to buy them? when will you see them driving all over africa, latin america and, and how important is that? yes. sorry sir. is our question for me and then what we need. yeah. so what we need to do exactly right is make electric vehicles um, super cheap. so the market like india, se, asia, we mentioned indonesia can kind of for them. and also, let's be honest, our western markets as well. and the way to do that is there's another battery technology called lithium on phosphate mosque is very big on which has no nickel and no coldwell on it on it's cheaper um it has lithium, but the fact is you don't get as much range as batteries with nickel and cobalt. so the question is you know, can consumers except a low range vehicle and governments need to invest in charging infrastructure. so these cheaper vehicles can be charged easily. but this is definitely the route to,

to penetrate, you know, market the need cheaper electric vehicles. and also there's just another technology coming out called sodium. i was just uses sodium i, which is basically table salt. so that's another way to get cheaper electric vehicles. so i know innovation is outside of thing. if okay, alyssa, go 1st. i'm so sorry. and so i, i just 2 things. one, i actually think of that we need to step back from assuming that the world, including wealthy nations, should be electrifying every vehicle on the road in some way that we did. we found that we could reduce material demand by more than 90 percent. if we pursued transit active mode alternatives to a personal vehicle dependency, and i think that car dependent places wealthy nations like the u. s. should pursue multi pronged approaches and not electrify everything. i'd also like to add that in globally electrified $2.00 and $3.00 wheelers have displaced more oil than all of

the electric vehicles that have been sold all the passenger vehicles. and i say this because electrification is going to look different around the world. and we should, he looking to electrify 2 and 3 wheelers which can deliver great air quality benefits for urban areas as well as electrified buses, which will probably play a really important role. for example, in electrifying latin america and africa. that's interesting. so this isn't just a one for one replacement from fossil fuel to electric vehicle. you're saying we really need to rethink the entire transportation model. yeah, absolutely. okay, for santa kit, i just i, i'm not sure if i'm disagreeing on just one or what and of course, what we can agree on, i think, is that all new vehicles that enter a roads should be 0 mission at that's i mean, or else was to keep, you know, pouring new cars or a new vehicles on the road that will be there for many years and pollute. so what

we can agree on if we are to sell vehicles, if we are to sell cars, those cars should be able to run on renewable fuels. and that is electric cars. but it, oh, that's gonna be true christina. those cars need to be more affordable for every one of the form in america. they're still kind of a luxury. no, i think this is also common misconception. who buys new cars? who buys new cars in norway? 8 out of 10 who buy a new car, norway, a buy a car in norway by a 2nd hand car. most people don't buy a new car. those to buy a new car in any country, whether it's indonesia or if it's norway or in the u. s. at least in norway, half of them are, are companies, the other half is people with a certain incom. absolutely. and it's the same in poor countries as well. but these people, if they can afford an ice car, you need to make sure they also can afford an e v instead. and that's where green text is coming. you could hire texas on ice

course and you allow e v to compete. so that people that actually afford new cars can afford and evie, their people, the way to less money in country will have to wait a few years until these ease are available in the secondhand market. right now. that is starting to happening, norway, we have a growing 2nd hand market for evie because we've been selling these cars force for us some time. but we can't, we, i don't think that the solution is to make cars to cheap because that doesn't, that's not going to help us. is it? if they, if they're too cheap, every one will buy it, buy a car. and as a lisa says, we need to to make sure people are also using public transport, walking, cycling, and, and so on. a car shouldn't be too cheap, but even should to compete with ice cars. i think ethical, your spot on christina. but in the you, us, alyssa, do a new tax is higher taxes don't often go over though it didn't with that system work. and in the u. s. you think that could even get that through?

no, there is no way that additional taxes on gasoline and diesel vehicles will, will happen in the u. s. i think it will have to be reflective of genuine cost reductions. i'm in electric vehicles. i think henry pointed out that and things like lithium iron phosphate batteries that are coming online. and not only do they have the benefit of of not including nickel and a cobalt which are not only expensive materials but also materials with human rates and environmental issues. and we'll probably reduce the cost of, of electric vehicles and make them cost competitive with a gasoline and diesel vehicles, especially from a total cost of ownership perspective. i'm adding other countries in the world. i can implement these taxes. in fact, when we have a few examples of lower income countries around the world or middle income countries that rely on 2nd in vehicle flows, especially from a europe, japan and the u. s. and some of those countries have implemented exactly the tax regime on in points that christina is highlighted and they had math of adoption. i

read recently that mongolia, for example, which favored hybrid electric vehicles and had a fleet of 30 percent hybrid vehicles on the road, much better than what the u. s. has achieved with a tax regime. so i do think christina solution while it's not going to happen in the u. s. is really an excellent solution in many other parts of the world, a mere self through these multiple solutions, different solutions for different parts of the world, world work, but i think everyone's in agreement, but it needs to happen right. death. luckily it's true, at least a silly success, and henry says evey's will become cheaper though in soon i got a rat mom like therapist, we're out of time. i want to thank all 3 of you, alyssa, christina and henry for joining us today. and for you, if you're watching on youtube or on out 0 english for joining us. and until next time we'll see you then. ah

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