one hand being accused of us, you know, being hand in hand with the that with the, the, our safe. and we have egypt being accused of being in support of all this was in his army. we know the situation in it between the 3 countries, the conflict over the nile and the, the problems between egypt and so then, and between egypt and each opiate answer, then in the middle. so i mean all the ingredients and elements of, of complexity and, and, and, and data. incredible, a very complicated the picture and situation. humboldt is always good to talk to him and ask you to stay with us though, because clearly this is a situation that is going to go on. but since we're now approaching the top of the hour, this may be a good point for us to try and recap for viewers. what is happening right now in are breaking news coverage? oh, it's 9, g, m, t, and sudan is on the cost of what could be

a major escalation in violence. the army and the nation's largest paramount 3 fourths are exchanging heavy fire in hot tomb the capital and in many other cities around the country. both the army and the rapid support forces are accusing each other of starting the conflict and attacking each other's camps. clashes, as you can clearly see from the live pictures coming in with all of that smoke. clashes are still ongoing. well, our assess the rapid support forces are believes to be on the tarmac of the car tomb airport and we're told all flights are cancelled. we've also had reports that fighting is broken out at the presidential palace and we can see pictures from some of those other places around the countries such as midway, where all so fighting has been reported. we can also see black smoke over the

horizon there that's on the right side of your screen. or i, let's bring in mohammed vow mohammed, you've covered obviously sedan over the years. you're very familiar with not only this, the years of the transitional conflict, but the conflict in dar for the conflict with the south of sedan. it's always good to have you here and bring your insight to this. at this stage, we can see that those fighting, breaking out all around the country. is this becoming another phase in what you can describe as the civil war? it's been going on for decades to win division. this might be the, the mother of the civil wars saying that this might be the final civil war. many people are expecting are much worse to happen in this particular instance than before. what we saw in the r 4 was limited to the 4,

or we saw in the south before the south separator or, or got it sir in the vendors, was somehow limited to the south. but now this we have hauling into question again the units yesterday. yes, yes, because remember that there have been calls over the last few years. the last since the qu, there have been for the 1st time in the history of so then there have been calls in the center and then off for separation from the for, and from the noble mountains, and probably from the east. i mean, because how do those calls relate to some of the forces that are fighting now, are they other factions on the ground, the armed groups on the ground? are they representative of some of these? i'm factions and quote, as go to say that, that there isn't why this is a relation to your question. that isn't why we have heard these separatists voices in the center, which was historically accused and seen as the,

the force that unites then and the side or the that the component of the sudanese population that doesn't want any separation because any separation weakens. they are hold on, have a vast territory. that isn't why we have heard these calls for the 1st time in the center. and the north for separation is that they are, are unhappy with malicious, coming from the west, with a well armed, malicious coming from the west of the country from dark foreign particular and having their scent mean holding the central power in cotton, the history of so that has been a history of power sharing. it has been the history of conflict between the, the, the, the, the far flung parts of the country and the center. and the center has always been dominant for the 1st time since the co on, on the she, the center has been shaken. and it has been, we can broke. we're seeing forces on the exterior. and the under the people who are used in the center and, and all to be the bottles ought to be the people who charge and they think they are

the majority for the 1st time they have seen power being taken from them. and the, i'm not sure whether this is going to be good for the country or not. they don't think that the, you know, militia from the wilderness can, can run the nation at, can, you know, seal sudan into the future. they think that the center has the people who are in charge usually who know how to run the country. the politicians, that intelligence here that people the, the university graduates. but these people are coming from the bush and they are, but largely uneducated. so it's a, it's a, it's a cultural political, his deep historical rift in sudan that has been going on. and now it is what it is reaching its worst air air air representation. in terms of the r, a soft, the rapid support forces are facing off against the army. is it that kind of cultural conflict that's going on?

is it a question of conflict over retaining power between these 2 institution to, to, to a great extent, sam, to a great extent, the central army, the, the state army is dominated by general generals from the center. and then off these are, you know, either islamist or our ups who are, who believes that they are the majority. and they believe that they have that they are educated, they believe they are, they know how to run the country because they have been running the country and the rest of the components of the army are, you know, subsidiary like you have people in the army from therefore, you have people from the noble mountains on the east, but they are not the majority. so the army in a way represents the center. and these people, the asset, they are mostly arab militia, from, from western sudan. and this is very interesting because usually wars in sudan have been, you know, fought on along ethnic lines. right. but this particular conflict now is, is,

is more complicated because we have the arabs of the west of dar for it versus the arabs of the center. right. for the people of central, i'm a dorothy and bye bye ups. so it's much more complicated and thus in many, in many explanations is because of the foreign intervals in the country and talking about for is there any appetite or is difficult to see? or how much, how much are we seeing an appetite in the international community to try and intervene and put a lid on this kind of tension? there hasn't been a lot of engagement or initiatives to try and calm things down for a while. right? i mean, as i me, the, her, there are on voice from the you and from the u. s. from in many countries, from the e. u. envoys to sudan and we can't read into intentions. but you know, how much will power do they have to impose either either the regional powers like gulf countries and other neighboring countries like egypt or the international community? how much will power do they have? how much will follow?

do they have to impose in some analyses they can impose, they can impose on because they, they give support for instance, let's talk about them. hm. at hand. and douglas had had on the good is he receives support from the e in the name of fighting against traffic in the desert, against a migration, illegal migration, and so on. so the e you have, it, has it, has it, has it, has a handle, has a sway with them. uh huh. hm. bender, if they want to impose on him to, to, to do anything. this is just an example. other gulf countries who have ties and egypt 2 half days with edward han or the other side. i mean they have, they have some leverage there. but how much, how, what are the intentions? we don't know that's something that we can talk about. we know only about the results and what, what we see happening on the ground and to put it in terms of the context of what it means for people's life, the average person. this is a,

a country which is marked in economic challenges, right? as well. reports of poverty increasing to 85 percent in 20. 20 life is hard for the average sudanese even without this exactly. sammy and this can lead both ways. i mean it can lead to anger, which is there has been there for a long time. anger at the political elite and the military leadership and so on, their failure to do anything to help the economy and fix the other problems. and it can lead, particularly among the youth. it can lead to more people joining this side or this side, thinking that the only solution we have now is to fight according to their perception of, of where the source of the problem lies. oh, all right. well, thank you. mm hm. a vow for being here and we're gonna keep you here. i'm sure there's lots more for us to analyze in the coming hours. but let's go now to have

a morgan. she joins us from hard to him. so heber, just bring us up to speed that the pictures look quite dramatic brings up to speed with where this is, where the fighting stands right now. while what we do know is that there is heavy gun fire or gun battles between the rapid support forces and the military are on the grounds of the airport. on the tarmac and around the vicinity of airports. as for the army, be rapid support forces to try to take over a hard time international airport. and they are fighting against that. we also have sources in the army, seeing that b were able to repel an attack by the rapids support forces against the army headquarters. so there has been a lot of developments on the ground here and how to tune in murder. we there is heavy fighting with what we understand so far with the reserve seemingly taking control of the army base there in meadows. that's where this whole tension between

the rapid support forces and the army reached its height. and as because you are as theft stationed, their troops there in the early hours of wednesday. and on thursday and friday, despite the army out calling on the r s f to withdraw there, are there forces that did not happen? there is still fighting within the vicinity of the presidential palace. we can still hear the gun fire. we can see our cars are military car trucks moving on nail street, which is just on one side of the presidential palace. so still heavy battles between the rapid support forces here in the capital and in matter we and we are not clear, we're not sure yet. if this is happening in other states, what we do know is that here in the capital there seems to be heavy gunfire. but for the time being, the army headquarters is still under the control of the army and is a fight over the control of october international airport. heber, as you're speaking, let me bring you some lines that are coming in here. this is according to news age

. this is, according to roses, are saying that the sudanese permit through rapid support forces or are a surface saying they have now taken control of both hot tomb airport and the murder we military base. again, this is a report coming in. reuters is saying the rapid support forces are climbing. they've taken control of hot tomb airport and morally military base. how significant development would that be, hipaa well, it is quite significant. we do know from the army that the battle over control off the auto international airport is still ongoing. we can't confirm with the earth if the said which is that they are in control of the are of the airports. we do know, as i mentioned, that the r s f has taken control of the army base, which is an airport base, which is an air base in the meadows and the despite the have gunfire. again, murray is where this whole attention escalated between the rapid support forces and

the army are we also know that the fighting continues are between the 2 sides in other parts of the capitol. hot. assume i mostly on the southern sides of the capitol. i don't know if he can hear the gunfire around me. it has died down a little bit. and this is just around the presidential palace, which is just a few kilometers away from where we are standing right now. so it looks like one side has the one over the other for the time being because the gunshots have reduced dramatically from what they were just about 15 to 20 minutes ago. but then that doesn't mean that if, if one site is winning, that reinforcement is not far away. again from the very beginning, the army has to be at least a statement. and they were the 1st to release a statement on, on thursday, saying that the iris have, have been moving their troops and sending them without coordination and without are notifying the are the disability armed forces. so if one site is winning around the presidential palace, it's not going to be very hard for the other to provide reinforcement. lots of

tension here in the capital, civilians have mostly stayed away from where the fighting are. despite the fact that it is in residential areas, people have opted to stay indoors while the fighting continues. meeting between the rapid support forces and the army and hippa give us an idea of how prevalent the our assess positions are in the sudanese capital. this is getting out of control in several locations. the hours of historically will, they were crated to fight conflicts outside of hog tomb. since the coo, they've moved into the cow. what, how widespread, all they spread around the capitol? well the r s f set of bases after their head was made the deputy commander, the deputy head of the sovereignty council. and that was around april 2019. we have seen them expanding in size. we've seen them expanding in numbers, or we've also seen them expanding in weaponry. there have been able to acquire lots

of weapons over the past few years, especially because as the my colleague mohammed val quitted because they were back by the rip in union when they were tasked to fight human trafficking and illegal immigration. a of, of people across the sahara desert, they were backed up by be your opinion is a list by the european countries to 5 or combat human trafficking and migration. so they do have a vast resources under their control. and then there's also the, the, the control of the gold mines that they had when they were fighting the war in the western region of dar 4. so lots of resources and their hands, lots of troops because again, they were recruiting. ah, since the are since the head of the a rapid support forces was made the deputy commander, and then let's not forget. they had mercenaries in yemen, there had fighters fighting on these audi collision side in yemen. and so that also is another source of income. so it's not the small force that we're talking about. we're not talking about one of the dar forey arm groups that was fighting in,

in the western region of dar 4 where the army and ers of jointly were able to fight against them. we're talking about b r a survey that was backed by the army, backed by the international community empowered, sansa dia since becoming the deputy head of the sovereign to council. and now there are fighting force of force to be reckoned with. and for is that the army is now fighting, not just in the period for he's like, they used to fight before, but they're now having to fight in the capital her to all right. and we're looking at live pictures hebert coming in from the sudanese capital. can see on the left hand side of the screen, the black smoke covering part of the capsule there. however, you mentioned earlier that fighting had seemed to dive down. if i understood you correctly around the presidential kept presidential palace, it wasn't as intense as it was when we started talking about an hour ago. is that indicative of anything?

yes, as the, as the minutes are going by the sounds from the gunfire of gunfire from the vicinity of the presidential palace is reducing. and that means that if either the army that is now in control of the presidential palace are the rapid support forces . it's very hard to tell within these walls what is exactly happening outside, but it's also not safe to venture out because of this confusion because it's not clear who is on the winning side, who's under losing sight, who has control of what area and a lot of what street here in the capital, her to lots of confusion with regards to who has the upper hand right now? what we do know is that there is fear is battle ongoing right now for the control of cartoon, airports. and that is leisure, because at that will be a supply root. should this turn into full french fledged civil war between the 2 sides had assume international airport would become a supply root, a very crucial one as well. then you have the control of mary. we now we know that matter we, i, an air base which was controlled by the army up until a few hours ago from only understand from so says there is now under the control of the r s f. so it's not clear who has the upper hand at the moment,

but around the capitol, how to him. while you can hear the gunfire in the distance from around where we are around the vicinity of the presidential palace that has largely died down. and that means one side is having the upper hand over the other. i know it's, it's a very difficult situation, hubert barden from what you can see there. what kind of posture are normal citizens taking? how. busy you know, are they dealing and reacting to the situation this started all of a sudden a lot of people were just going about their daily lives. again, when this happened, it was around 9 now local time, which is about, oh, $7.00 g. people were getting ready to go to the markets. people ready to go to do what they used to do on the weekend because again, saturday, easily is a week and they were not expecting a to wake up to the sound of gunfire between the 2 sides. despite the fact that sentients have been going on ongoing ongoing for a few days and it looks like the fighting has resumed again around the presidential

palace. we can hear the sounds of gunfire once again and the same. it looks like heavy, our artillery ah, but back to the civilians, we've seen them on the streets. many of them getting away from their cars, the walking on foot because the army blocks the roads around the presidential palace to protect the presidential palace. so many of them who were using this road had to get from i won't get get down from their cars and walk home. we've spoken to residents around re out and around job road. those are residential districts which both had army camps. both deborah, andrea, that did they have, they had offices rather of the rapid support for this would be automatically become targets. are these offices become targets and battle between the 2 sites? both spoken to residence, then they say they've been keeping indoors. many of them say they're hiding under their beds, they're staying away from walton windows and any glass that that they say could possibly show that they're indoors because they're worried about being caught in the crossfire. and that is the concern, stanny, the rapid support forces and the sudanese armed forces,

the station around the country. they have troops around the country list. they're stationed in residential neighborhood as well. hot dorm, for example. many places where you have basis for the year, for both the r f and the army is not far from, from residential neighborhood. and that is raising concerns that they will be civilians caught in the crossfire. it's not going to be like those battles that we've been seeing him in the western region of norfolk, or in the southern region island southward of hon. it's going to be quite intense because of this, that the fact that this is in residential neighborhood. i just need to check with you that you are. all right. do we need to release you? cuz we can hear what sounds like a very heavy explosions going on around. you know there's this is coming again from the vicinity of the presidential palace. we thought things have died down, but it looks like it has escalated once again. i guess once again, law jointly hearing why we are eva. and as i said earlier, the fact that the fighting has reduced a little bit. sorry. it doesn't sound like just small arms fire either.

exactly. yes, and that's why i oh, and i said earlier that it doesn't. the fact that the fighting has died down doesn't necessarily mean that one side has one over the other. because of the fact that there have been heavy troop movement over the past few days, both from the army and from the rapid support forces. it could me simply mean when the fighting died down a little bit. it could simply mean that one side was waiting for reinforcement, and by the sound of the heavy, heavy artillery that we just heard, it looks like reinforcement has arrived. the presidential palace is quite crucial it symbolic because neither beforehand nor he made, he actually lived there. that's where they just conduct their day to day work, but it's symbolic because it would affect the morales of both of either sides. if the hours have takes over, it would affect the morals of the arm. and if the army just take over, it will affect the morons of the rapid support forces here in the capital and other places that begin the r s f has been able to take control of murray air base in and amazon, sudan. so all of this right now was unfolding heavy fighting continues. despite

that there mediation efforts from political fighters that have been ongoing since yesterday, when sanctions were escalating between the 2 sides. it's law clear how much breakthrough that which caused now or that would result in now now that there is direct confrontation between the 2 sides and him or are we aware of the mediators. the was a mediation process going on, the world leaders speaking about reaching some kind of resolution. what was happening to the mediation efforts right now? well, i would say it's very hard to say if it's going, if any side is going to listen to the mediation, we have seen in the statement from the rapid support forces calling on the international community, calling on the tart tripartite mechanism for mechanism that has been facilitating talks between the political parties and the military for a civilian transitional government. we've seen there that, that are a statement calling on them to condemn the, the move by the army because they accused the army of attacking them in sober. and

it seems statements from the army that in fact it is the iris have that attack a bam in sober and not the other way around. but from the media is a sideway yet to hear any kind of comment or a statement with regard to what is happening again, this has had been happening over the past 2 hours. it's been 2 hours. exactly since the 1st gunshot here in the capitol cartoon. and, and there's a lot of confusion sammy with regards to who started it. how are we going to bring to end it and who has control of what that is also going to be an issue, because for it to actually come down one side has to ensure that either that he has the upper hand over the other. because again, this started with differences over integration of the rapid support forces into the army, how long it should take, how strong their offices are to be absorbed into the army. so it's not going to be so easy to just and the fighting between the 2 of them, it looks like one of them wants to prove a point that they have the upper hand. they have control. and therefore, when it comes to the security sector, reform, they should have the upper hand and what they say should go before

a transitional government is formed. if one is found at this point. all right, deborah, thanks so much for that update. we'll come back to no, no, down little bit. let's talk now to suleima helluva. she is the head of the sudanese government gender based violence. student joins us now from hard to him. good to have you with us. how much of a shock on a surprise was this fighting, breaking out just 2 hours ago after world everyone was talking about a resolution coming? yes. a few minutes ago before you start talking to me, there was a lot of even shakes out to my house right now. it's fixed with my children. and because it's very close and a tv and when you introduce buying in the month and it's it's so we can hear that would be the know and even then when they so they

accept blue exclusions that we feel the shape. so it's actually affected everybody and nobody have any formation. it's freaking everybody out. nobody have to step in something even when we open the nation in general, we don't see anything. and it's like, it's like it's not been in the day why, why there's so many things happening. we see in the national media and we cannot see that we don't have any statement coming. we only had the statement of that coming in in the social media and other general. but there's no news that like how we can so like like a statement of the civilian that don't walk outside your home. he's like,

they're gonna do. we don't, we don't. we don't, we don't know anything of this. we don't have any directions on my team. ha, all right, the bear with us, that was the. thank you for bringing us that quite chilling account of what you're seeing around you. let's go with the dahlia mohammed ogden williams. she is an activist and joins us now by skype also from hall to him. can you give us an idea? we were speaking moments ago to our other guest who was talking about the explosions that she can see and hear and feel rocking her house. tell us what you're seeing. oh, well, i mean i don't if you can hear it, it's naturally very heavy artillery. it's not just a little gun, it's really heavy and what, what degree that's being used in our house, it's shaking. it's been, she's been taking for a bit now and i stepped out just to see what i can see with smoke better. honestly,

i will not venturing, aren't we not going up anywhere because we don't know what's happening. but we are where i'm, where i live, it's very close to one of the base is over headquarters of the r s f. so which is also near like a 5 minute drive from the pilot from the presidential palace and the main area of downtown cartoon. so i guess this is where the majority of that and she can call it fighting, it's taking place at this moment. all right, and as you're talking to us, we're getting a lines dropping here. stay with me for a 2nd valuable sedans. general intelligence is calling the r s f, a rebel group. when we hear statements like that dahlia, it must be very worrying for the path that the country is on for the unity of the country. at this point. it is it's, it's actually it's, it's frightening. it's not just worry, it's frightening because they literally reached the point of no return. this latest

escalation shows that all the talk, all the negotiations have fallen black. they have failed miserably. because until yesterday night we, we were reading and being and being told that an agreement happened between both sides, between the hours and the army. so then to wake up this morning and here are these crashes goes, it is just points a finger that we don't know what's going to happen next. so far they have mean we have, i haven't heard of any casualty civilian casualties, nor of person army personal casualties. but it is between them and, and we, the people are the ones caught in the middle. and cartoon is a very densely populated city. it's not open spaces, so a, so anything that can go wrong, it will be devastating and meeting, but then again, this is new to us in the center. but for those who be living in dark or in the mountains, this will, this was a norm for them. but for us in the center,

it's not. and it's definitely not a pleasant experience to live, to go through, were painful prepared for this kind of situation. danielle, where they stalked up, one imagines, if this fighting becomes prolonged issues like access to food, health care and so on, might become complicated. people were not expecting this, even very complicated because something would happen probably over eat because then, you know, it's the com is that, you know, it's a, it's a holiday out. so they will be the perfect time for them to do any of it either side. wanted to separate us. so we were really caught up, caught by surprise by what happened this morning. and no, we're not prepared. i mean, i personally wasn't planning on going buying some supplies just because it's, it's still ramadan and we have coming up. so, but now we're all stuck at home or stuck wherever we are, and just waiting to see how it will play out. but i mean,

it's worried that there's been no statements released from neither the troika or the e u. i haven't seen anything. so we don't know what's happening behind closed doors . are there god or the negotiations? no one knows fantasy, i don't think anyone knows what's happening. we keep getting different reports. our stuff is in the armies in the airport shooting in the one way. we don't know what's happening, it's just getting snippets of information from social media, from friends and contacts and colleagues. and the good thing, it's so hard, the internet hasn't been shut down. so in that sense, it's a blessing. but other than that, we're just not playing by ear and to see how with, for, you know, i would close out towards the end. you know, for the next few hours, i hope you and the civilians everyone stay safe. thank you so much, darling for talking just let's go with her daughter. she's a social activist.