19 remained at the heart of government, but dominic rob now gone. the prime minister now finds himself without his most local political ally, and there are still questions why it took so long. mister su not to address the issue of mister rob's conduct. and if he had been warned before, hiring him as his deputy, the last of the prime ministers chief ally, comes at a particularly difficult time for tonight. months of strikes, soaring, inflation and energy prices have tested the resolve of the country and its leaders . after the high drama of the johnson years and less trust is short, but turbulent tenure as leader. see that promised accountability. integrity and professionalism with a claim he hoped would convinced the public in spite of questions that remain about the culture inside westminster. so i yeah, go, i'll just sarah london out love as if american bear look away. now,

this is more than 2000 cans of mill, high live being pulled down the drain. 5 belgian customs. the packaging from the united states called it the champagne of bears that does not hold sway in the european union where nothing is allowed to be called champagne. unless it's from the actual champagne region of france. the cannes received the ports of. 1 antwerp on their way from the u. s. to germany. instead, they found their way here into the crusher. the me just want to you on the main stories and sedans. army as agreed to a 3 day cease fire officer and national course to stop the fighting during the eat holiday, which marks the end of ramadan. but gone, fires continued to be. it is continues to be heard across cartoon off the disease. fire was supposed to started. the army has been battling the pi military rapids

support forces for control of the country in the past week. but morgan has more from high tim residence around the, around the capital reports continuous artillery strikes in the northern part of the capital residency. they've been in 10 fighting between the rapid support forces and the new army in the southern part of the capital, the direct confrontation between the army and the recess. as the army tries to clear several areas that were under the control of the rapid support forces. so despite a 5th attempt at a sci fi residence in various parts of the country, they the ongoing fighting, the ongoing sounds of artillery strikes and the sound of air strikes continuously ringing down on the ears. they believe that this c 5 may not hold 10 members of the same family including a child has been killed in a mass shooting in south africa. it happened at a house in a township outside of peter merits bug city. a male suspect was killed in a shootout with police. 2 other men were arrested. a 4th man escapes the scene,

but is known to the police throughs from present to surrender in the us and will be expedited to face corruption charges back home. in the next few days, a 100 to later is accused of taking more than $25000000.00 of bribes during his 5 year presidency. and the u. s. is hosted a meeting of western allies in germany to discuss further military support for ukraine. cave has been pushing from a fighter jets and ammunition is worn. everything on our website, of course, algebra dot com, including all the details on what's happening in sudan at the moment. upfront is coming up next. talk to al jazeera, we who is really fighting this for russia. is wagner, or is it the russian military? we listen, we started talking to me. i'm a visual ticket and back we meet with global news makers and talk about the stories that matter on our era. as low time viewers of upfront,

we'll know mandy has been is a journalist who likes to win argument this week. we welcome back to the show to discuss his new book when every argument where he shares the tips and tricks of how he's home dissipating skills over the years. the 1st, what's of today's contemporary music and pop culture in the united states? it can be traced back to black and indigenous position. however, their contributions have long gone, unrecognized in their song, have often been commodified for majority white audience. so how are musicians today working to undo that historically ratio and how do they continue to celebrate black performance and artistry? earlier i spoke to jake lot and award winning musician and scholar, specializing in the early folk music of black americans and parking and new distinguished professor of african and african american studies. a duke university and the author of several books including black, ephemeral crisis in charlotte of the musical archive this week. the jake mark,

thank you so much for joining me on upfront jake. what was that? would you describe yourself as a performer of traditional black music and a specialist in the early folk music of black americans? you often talk about the profound waves, the black people have shaped and even defied roots music american itself. but many people, the contributions of black folk and indigenous folk seems to be lost to his you talk about why it's so important for you to highlight this, the impact of this sort of appropriation in, in cultural white washing. i think for me than the main reason is because it's all still ongoing. i think it's really easy to go listen to stories about the early record industry about the way that early country music took shape here, the ways that black people and indigenous people were kind of boxed out of the early commercial opportunities that were available in that. and lose sight of the fact that the same logic informs how many of the larger labels to day, many of the publicists to day are choosing the artist that they work with. right. we're still having trouble finding space for black people for indigenous people,

for women to get the radio play to get the industry access that particularly straight white men are able to have in country, in american and related industries. absolutely mark in your work. you also talk about the eraser of black people's cultural contributions in the united states and is that just folk music what we see the stuff happening? can you walk us through a little bit how other black genres, other forms of back music got commodified? ah, even as its origins were sort of wilfully forgotten. the best example of this, of course, is we're rock'n'roll music. we forget about some of the early influences, like folks like the system, rosetta thorpe, who was extensively a gospel singer, but she played a good car. right, right. it played and jazz clubs. we forget about even someone like ike turner who create a really, you know, influential. so call rocket $69.00, which is, you know,

foundational to the sound of what we call rock and roll. and the practices at window one in the 1950s. it just was every day that a black artist would do what we would call a rhythm and blues song and that period of time that would get covered by white artists and be promoted as something absolutely different. the most famous case of that, of course, is how dog read everybody. they know an elvis presley song. they know hound dog, right. most folks don't know the big mama thornton recorded the 2 years before elvis presley. and even as he became the king of rock and roll, a someone like big murmured gordon was a race from history. pat boons. oh, both whole musical career leasing in 19 fifties was predicated or covering little richard songs. and would you listen to the richard sing, today's fruity, which has a certain kind of resonance that we all recognize. you know, you been raised in the black church and black blue spaces and rhythm and blues and what have you. and then you listened. the pat boone st to the freudian. this i get a, what is this right it, you know, here here,

a little bit of room whitewashing yeah. black music, when you hear pat boone saying to the free mark, a lot of times people talk about black music as the struggle. they talk about black music as a music of pain and suffering and struggle. and it absolutely is. we had to make a way at a no way, but it's also about joy at can you talk a little bit about sort of how this tradition is not just a tradition of pain and suffering. it is something like, like loose music, right. and, and for the average person here blues losing that, a bunch of mournful, sorry, ho, sad black people singing about stuff and, and shout out to angela davis because this is a part of which he talked about who were blue legacies. when you go to these black women losing to the 1920s, they're talking about everything in an offering, social justice commentary. but they're also talking about sexual desire. both, you know, heterosexual sexual desire and same sex sexual desire in many of the songs that they're singing. and, and it's so much more than that, right. it is black music,

specifically, right. is an exploration of the black, social, cultural, and spiritual condition. it's like, you know, barocha says, you know, the late leroy jones, a late america says and, and blues, people like that. great, like the spirit do not descend without music, and that very much captures with black music is. and again, there's a moment where black music is seen as entertainment and commodity. and that's important because, but you know, musicians need to be able to make a living right. but it's more than that, right? it is more than just entertainment, right? it is a lot the life force of black people being express in the musical context, cigna in your work, you've talked about on, through how, in moments of despair, even in your own despair about ant, have like violence against state bounds. all these things you've had to turn to the music of our ancestors. artificial like music remains away. you say of how they survived for so what is traditional black music mean to you? i chose to use the term traditional black music because it's expansive. ahem!

when we talk about traditional music, oftentimes in a folk music context, the it comes very specifically with like, i play fiddle tunes or icing c shanties that kind of thing. right? and when i say traditional black folk music, i think oftentimes people who are in the know will go to the banjo or people think blues guitar. and i love those things and i do those things. but i also think that any real definition of traditional black folk, folk music would have to include hip hop it would have to include punk, it would have to include disco there. many other things that i think fall under that term by putting the bad brains in when it, when it, they got about, about traditional music. exactly. but what i'm thinking about that if i'm talking about folk music community music, traditional music that emerged out of us wanting to do something together rather than us wanting to sell something. and i think that that creates a very different type of artistic product in the end. when i was growing up,

we were playing banjos in high school, you know, and limitless respect for the cultural role of the banjo in that music and play it . and i love it, but you know, that's not what was going on around me. right. people weren't dancing to that, right. the angels weren't hot industry. exactly. well, you've talked about the depiction of black people, particularly the music industry, and also this legacy of minstrelsy in the minstrel show. when you look at the re packaging of black identity and black performance in bits and pieces for white profit, white entertainment. how do you feel like the missiles playing out in the current moment, the current error? you know, the way we talk about minstrels is, is, is, is complicated, rightly has in, on one hand we, we need to make a distinction between minstrels and blackface mental see, right. these folks who literally blackened up um as white folks to look black and perform some variation of what they thought was blackness. but then when you get to that error, folks like george walker and, and, and bert williams and ernest,

he hogan wright who, who understand the limits of what they can do as musicians and song writers. and so earnest, he organ might write a song like and this is a truth, right? he wrote a song call all look alike to me, the black man writing a song and 18 ninety's and you know, call all look alike to me that was primarily consumed by white audiences, right? sheet music, right? playing the song in their homes on the panels, et cetera, et cetera. he understood what the market was at the time and in the hunger appetite, if you will. you know, for white folks took for what they deemed as authentic blackness, right? whether it was or not, right, and this is part of the game that we seen in 19 nineties with gangster up. oh, i have no doubt in my mind when we think about the primary figures of what gets identified as gangster rap. understood to day, we're packaging something for white, mainstream consumption. right. that didn't necessarily reflect who they were when we know they were, it didn't reflect who they were. right. osha. jackson came from

a 2 parent household. right. snoop dog came from a cooper that like all the kind of stereotypes in mythologies about black pathology . right? that was embedded in gainst wrapping in 90 ninety's. you know, they understood they were delivering this to white consumers were profit. it doesn't mean there wasn't some truth in that. the critique to police vitality were very much real in the context of all that. but it's complicated, right? it's never going to be one thing, right? you're giving something to the market in order to make a living that the white consumers will consume. and at the same time, you're hoping that black audience is here, the lower frequencies of what you're delivering for something that's more liberatory and staining and spiritual in that context. i guess the co sign over there. yeah, no i'm, i'm really excited that that one where it did. yeah. we're thinking about the power of, of, of our work as black folk and the power of cultural production to create change. whether it's the critiques are pretty police brutality or, or

a violence of black on black crime, whatever the thing might be. i'm also thinking about reparation. yeah. your 1st record is called net force, bentley, reparation. when we think about the future of like music making, how do you think we can apply reparations, right. and for those out them to be compensation for the unpaid labor and systemic exploitation that black people have been forced to render since the beginning of slavery. right? how do we think about it in the context of the music industry? so i talk about this a lot whenever we wind up having the conversation about cultural appropriation, which is this huge hot term right now that i think a lot of people here, but maybe don't understand the concept behind it. one of the things that i typically point to when we're talking about black music is how, whether it's rock and roll or minstrel fee or hip hop, or disco, or jazz, whatever. all of america's major musical exports have come out of the black community, right? our music industry is built on the contributions of black people. look at the

financial breakdown of where that money is going after it's being made. right. black people are producing the content, right? we're doing the intellectual and the spiritual and artistic labor to create the genres. and somebody else is making all the money, and that to me is a problem. and i think reparations is a big systemic conversation that needs to happen. and i'm well aware of that, many people who don't want that water down by talking about it in anything less than a context of government payouts for that i probably would lean directly there. and that's what i, i think on an individual level, there is absolutely more that artist can do. and you know, i'm, i'm fortunate to work with a know, a lot of white musicians who go out of their way because they understand that they owe a debt. and i think it would be nice in those moments where things get out of hand for us. right. i think a lot of people thought about this during the george floyd uprisings

a few years ago. you know, where are all of the rich white people who are in the entertainment industry, who have these massive followings, who have huge platforms, who has billed to their careers in themselves based on our work and then are not showing up. when we need to the board and certainly i think when you're talking about reparations. yeah, there needs to be a check. there needs to be money, right. someone has done labor and there needs to be compensation for the labor. i also think as a performer, one of the most meaningful things available to me is not just my own personal resources because i know of, for a lot of performers, even on a high level. oftentimes those aren't as high as they appear to people on the outside, right. and all those people have a lot of people working for them. but i also think they have the power to motivate a huge group of people who also adapt because they enjoy all of the music. and it would be great to see more by in absolutely from, you know, those

a list celebrities built in empire with, with our bricks. indeed, jake mark, i want to thank you so much for joining me on upfront. well, thank you, mark the if you are a long time viewer of up front, then you are probably used to seeing my next guest argue his way. there are some pretty tough interviews in this very studio. maddie hudson is a man who knows how to win an argument. he was the 1st host of upfront and had to head here on al jazeera english. and he's now the host of the mandy hasn't shown him, and b, c, and on peak are here in the united states. he's also an author. he has a new book. it's called when every argument, the art of debating, persuading and public speaking. it is full of tips and tricks on how to win an argument, whether it's at home in a debating chamber or on t. v had the good to see you to see my so lovely to be here. how does i was i have the fuel to come back with, should i go sit there and you come say we're let me know yelling, but will argue intensely, intensely though it's good to be

a thanks so much fun. now it's great also to talk about this book. i've read it and closely, and i was persuaded in some ways, why do you write it now? i wrote it now. well, sure answer is there was a pandemic. so i started writing. the long answer is politically, i do believe we're in a moment where our public spaces, both in the u. s. and around the world. i've just come back from the u. k. have been taken over by gaslight, as people pushing nonsense b. s false information, a con man griffith z. and i believe that we need to retake our public square. we need to retake discourse. democracy cannot survive, but we can't have good faith disagreement. and unfortunately have too many bad faith disagreements today. so i looked around, i saw what was going on, i said, look, i want to help people, i want to equip people with the rhetorical skills i need to push back against this nonsense. so i found all the tips persuasive. i was convinced but all of these will work. the thing that kept ringing in my mind is,

are we giving into the drifters by arguing on their level wallowing in the mud with them should really try to attain a higher level. yes or no. so in an ideal world, of course, we should be at a higher level, i have my own rules and i say, you know what, i have a hygiene test. i will have an election dinner on the shirt means i can't interview a lot of republican politicians who i might want to interview. but i don't want to give a platform to people who say, terabyte and isn't the president. i don't want to give a platform to climate change denies holocaust denies. just i'll argue with anyone people, you know. mean i love arguing, but i have to draw a line somewhere. i would argue reality. i'm not gonna argue up his down hot. his cold, black is why not argue with conspiracy? there's, you're right, i will follow in the mud with certain people with others. yes. but that's kind of that's, that's kind of big. the big abstract point. the specific point is you can't avoid some of these people more. we live in a well. now where, you know, there was a time when a lot of people say to me, well, you know, you do what you do. i'm going to keep my head done. none of us can keep our heads down anymore if you're in the united states, for example, as we are right now,

democracy is existentially threatened. one of the 2 major political parties has been taken over by near fascists, cultivates conspiracy theorists. authoritarians. this scenario, which you can say, well, you know, i'm going to my, my business. that's for them. this is for me know, the arguments coming to you whether you want to or not. what i find frustrating is i see liberals left is progressive, small di democrats, who may have the facts and the figures. we've got the truth, but they can't persuade other people. they don't know how to convey it to others, no point having all the knowledge and all the facts and all the wisdom if you can't get across to the people who need it. so i'm saying, great, have your wonderful facts, have your highbrow combinations. but at some point, yeah, you're going to have to push back against the people i called dish gallup is in the book that people just want to knock you down with misinformation. you're going to have to push back. one of the things you talk about is knowing the audience, how important is to recognize who you're talking to. what does that mean in practical terms in terms of engaged media conversations on controversial? so,

am is interesting. we're sitting here on out as her english. a global audience is watching us. when i do my show every week, it's mainly an american audience watching me. so as a journalist, you tailor your message to who's in front of you. and i would argue not just as a journalist, as any person in a public forum, or even a private form, if you're around the dinner table with your mag loving uncle thanksgiving, you are going to take a different approach to convincing that magazine uncle as you are with maybe an auditorium full of students at your university or college or in a boardroom at work and not sent me to face. i'm saying say the same thing, you want to say make the same argument, have the same beliefs and principles, but taylor them to who is in front of you know, who your audience. so for example, if i'm dealing with an american audience, and i'm talking about afghanistan, right, i'm gonna talk to the american, i want to make the case that the afghan war was wrong. and joe biden was right to pull out, which i did on my show. nath, i'm going to make the case along the lines of this cost, the american public. a great deal of blood and treasure. that doesn't mean i also don't believe it cost afghans a lot of lives. it destroyed afghanistan, it was

a geopolitical nightmare. that was all great, but what's the number one argument going to make to my viewers? this didn't help you. right? because they're the people that are scares me just a little worried. because part of the challenge of this is when people tell their message to audiences in the kinds of you're describing this neo fascist moment, this authoritarian moment is that they're playing to people's fears also to their biases. and so if we live in a world where afghan lives are disposable. yeah, already. and we only focus on the budget that you know, are only so or are we prioritized? but it's also about it prioritize. it's about, you need to get your message across to people, you need to convince a skeptical person you need to get through the door. and what i'm suggesting in the book is here are some trips can technically get you through the door. once you're through the door, yes, bring up everything else, bring up the cost afghan lives, bring up the geopolitical problems. but how do you get through the door? we live in a world where the door is shut far too often these days were very, very polar. people don't want to hear a liberal if they're a conservative only here because out of their liberal. and also i would just say, you know, you say play to people's as if that's the world we live in mall. this is

a very practical book. it's noted for, it's not written for kind of ancient greece, utopian debate, chambers is written for the real world. and i say in the real world, people are biased. people are afraid, people do feel their way towards the confusion. they don't rationally think their way to get that who i'm dealing with. well, that's how i have to adapt. so it's less than asking this, isn't that the same argument the trunk could make? okay. i think immigration really bad. i think we do any better border security, so i'll tell them they're taking your jobs or they're sitting criminals across the board because that's what their fears are. that's what their biases are. and so therefore i can appeal to my audience. you know, in my, my fear about that is that it reinforces the question to you that mom is what do you do in response? because trans doing that anyways, right. and he's doing it masterfully as much as we might laugh at his lack of eloquence and his ignorance, etc. he does know how to press the right buttons. he doesn't know how to rouse a crowd, he does now to get people to the police station. he does it in the darkest way possible. he appeals to our worst emotions, fear, loathing, paranoia prejudice. i'm not saying appealed to the same emotions. i'm just saying

appeal to emotion. but you know, for example, if you're a liberal or leftist, you can inspire people with hope solidarity with a common vision of a shed future. but inspire people. how do you do that and still hold on if you even want to, to these sort of traditional journalistic principles of objectivity distance in the book? very clear papers is a way to go. yes. appealing to the most of, as you're saying now, how do you do that but also hold up to some sense of journalistic objectivity. so the 2nd chapter is about appealing to emotion. and pathos is aristotle, but the 3rd chapter is on logos. if i'm facts, i'm not saying dropped the facts. i'm not kelly, uncommon. alternative. i'm saying facts, model, feelings about feelings tend to matter more than fact. so go ahead with feelings, but make sure facts follow your way through. you know, anyone who knows because what's the show? nose. i love my fax. i love my receipts like the chapter school show you will receive one of my favorite when i come and say, you know what? i'm the guy who says to, you know, whoever it is, you said this in 2009. how can be said that i've got,

i've got the transcript right here. that's well known for i. so i'm not saying drunk fax. i'm say we need all that, but you know, you mentioned the objectivity. it's a word i struggle with these days because i think journalists have hidden behind this abstract idea of objectively to avoid having to take some important moral position like what the, what the classic example were in the us for several years while trump was present, journalist would not say the word lie, they would not say the word racist because they were taught in j school. you don't say stuff like that. you don't question watson. someone's heart. you play both sides. and i say no, it took a long time for people to realize we live in an authoritarian moment. you have to be able to call ally, ally, and new at times as use racially tinted race, divisive race just say right, right, well letters. so now slowly, some journalist realize that you need to be able to call things out for what they are. truth is more important than objectivity. factual reality is more important. and if you're defining objectivity, it's a midpoint between the 2 parties. one of the 2 parties is now on authoritarian anti democratic movement, so you don't really want to be in a midpoint. and by the way,

we, as journalists, mark, we have a bias. we have a bus to the truth. we have a bus to reality. we have a bus to democracy, we can't function as a free press or the 4th state. if democracy doesn't exist, the people that i'm an unbiased journalist, no, you should have some biases. they're important that absolutely. acknowledging what they are acknowledging with absolute how much of this is the u. s. then you talk about sort of being in the u. s. u k. at different moments. how much of this is particular to the rise of trump and whatever's going on here? i think it's very globe, but when i talk about trump's america, most of the game is israel. other ones, turkey, moody's india, all been hungry. putin's russia, you know, the u. k. on the births johnson vishal, when he was and the party is still doing some re just things. but also when i sat in that c and i interviewed ministers from around the world listening, i noticed in 20172018. every time i would interview administer from an african government and asian government, they sounded like trump. they did the same, they had the same verbal text. they were using the same tactics, the same fake news, the same trying to overwhelm you with

a bunch of nonsense. it wasn't just trump and trump, and people that i was in to be, it was people around the world who was saying civically that works what that guys doing in american work. so this is a global problem. certainly for global media. you've had a lot of people to account in this very studio and your book give lots of examples from upfront out 0. what is your, i guess, favorite memory of a debate? you had, one of my favorite movies i tell you in the book was standing right behind you with that monitor. talking to a man named steve rodgers. not captain america, sadly, but a trump advisor in 2018. and it was, he was doing the gish gala. what i said about he was trying to just throw lots of nonsense and use up the time and make you move on. and what i say in the book is you need to do 3 things to stop that you need to pick your bottle. you need to not budge, need to call it out because i didn't he, he wanted to avoid the discussion where the trumpet lied about fixed field steel mills. and i, i kept just sticking to that, pick my bottle. i didn't budge as a don't talk to me about 60 mills and he wanted to move on at one point. he said,

just move on as a note. and i called and i said you want me to move on because you know it's a lie. i'm never going to say ok, well where the fix still bills. that was me saying everyone's got their own way of trying to take these people on. it's very hard to take these people. here's a possible way that you can do it. and i say to my fellow journalists here is a one way you can do it and we get into 2024. all these gish gallup is going to be back on our line enough line up here is one way of trying to stop them dead in the middle. you are a gish gallup or stop, or if you get a t shirt, which is amazing book, everybody takes it out, maddie, so good for you. well, it's been a pleasure my interview thought it makes me happy. everybody that you watch, that is our show up front will be back. who's ah

ah. fit them, i'm not a jotted beth, and before we sat said enough, ah, this is an enormous emergency for literally billions of the world's population, earth rise explores how different fades across the globe are rallying communities.

we are clearly caretaker's, here in a mission to rebuild our broken relationship with the planet. if we can mobilize that proportion the world's population, and we got really great, dr. believing in change on al jazeera, a lot of the stories that we cover heidi complex. so it's very important that we make them as understandable as we can do as many people as possible, no matter how much they know about a given chrisy. saw issue with the smell of death is overpowering as al jazeera correspondence. that's what we strive to do. a weekly look at the world's top business stores, thousands of people go on strike, a high cost of living from global markets and economies. small businesses, the export restrictions really impacted china, as opposed to understand how it affects are counting the cost on al jazeera, a.