were made a challenge in the region. ah, well not being throw my. i want to sleep. we don't have read them in the study. about 2 weeks now, 3 days, journey to a shelter. in questioning grade, someone destroys our country. someone needs to rebuild. ah, i'm carry johnston in doha. the top store is now on al jazeera. so don's army is assisting in the evacuation of foreign nationals as gunfire. st bottles and air strikes continue in the capital cartoon. fighting between saddam's army and the rapid support forces as spilled into a 2nd week. even morgan has more from cotton. while many people who spoke to say, say that the fighting on saturday has been the most intense and most fear is they've seen since the start of the clashes between the rapid support forces.

anderson in his army last saturday. there's been intense artillery strikes and as tribes in the northern city of berkeley, that's just across the river now from the central part of the capitol, the vicinity of the general command of the army that has been the scene of intense r clashes between the 2 sides has seemed less fighting on saturday, but other places like the southern and eastern districts of the capital, her too intense and fierce fighting as well. tens of thousands of sudanese have already fled the country and crossed the border to neighboring chad. the world food program says it's expecting that number to increase significantly as fighting continues. people have been rallying in the city of dar duke, north of carter, calling for an end to hostilities for testers, march through the cities market district on saturday night. they say sedans army on the rapids support forces should immediately lay down their weapons and work towards a solution for peace. thousands of israelis are protesting for 16th,

straight week against plans to overhaul the judiciary. prime minister benjamin netanyahu pulls the proposal last month to negotiate with the opposition. the bill will be brought to parliament and peace reconvene at the end of april. i'm a jim jim has more on this now from television. the protestors that have come out here tonight and television are opposed to the plan put forth by prime minister benjamin netanyahu. and it's all right when that would give a more power point. supreme court judges and plans that it happens a lot would also give a court decision. everybody that we spoke with here tonight. well, they say that the interest, the law that they would give real weight democracy toward what talk hundreds of protest is in columbia. have rallied against proposed social and

economic reforms. congress is debating a rafter proposal by left this president gustavo petra, and includes changes to health care the pension system and reducing the working week from 48 to 42 hours. critics say they will negatively impact job creation and public finances. at least 9 people have been killed in an attack on the military campaign. the central molly, 3 simultaneous explosions rocked the city of civil re including a car bomb. the un peacekeeping force in the area says it repelled the assault becomes days off to groups affiliated with iceland, arcadia reportedly took control of parts of the region $21.00 bodies have been examined in eastern tenure. as officials investigate a suspected cult, please say follow was may have starved themselves to death. the church leader has been arrested and charged in connection with the case. russia is expelling more

than 20 german diplomats. the tit for tat. moved by moscow. policy exposed of its invoice from byrne in relations between russia and germany have been under strained since moscow sent troops into ukraine last year. and the west imposed sanctions. brazil's presence louise enough to let the silver has called for a negotiated settlement between keven moscow. he was speaking in portugal, the start of his 1st visit to europe since taking office in january. the trip has been overshadowed that by comments he made about the war ukraine. he said keith says some blame for the conflict. australian comedian, that very humphrey his best knowing his character, dame at an average has died at the age of 89. when straight in the prime minister in albany, he described him as both gifted and the gift. those are the headlines. nice continues here and i'll just say or after the bottom line to stay with us, if you can ah

hi of steve clements and i have a question. what you recently leaked american secrets, tell us about the ukraine war? let's get to the bottom line. ah. even before hundreds of sensitive us intelligence reports were leaked online, there were signs of small cracks in the unity between washington and kia, the documents paint a bleak picture of a war that is nowhere near an end, and is far more likely to end with negotiations than a decisive military victory for either side. the credibility of the lead papers is suspect, because so many have been altered by the time folks saw them, as they dribbled into social media sites like discord over the last few months. but they still highlight ukraine's challenges and getting more troops and ammunition not to mentioned wanting long range weapons, an f,

16 fighter jets and the papers show how central the united states is for the war and ukraine to keep grinding on. so what effects will the pentagon weeks have for the united states, and is it america's vision for victory in ukraine different than what the ukrainians want? today we're talking with matt demick, former director for russia in eastern europe in the us national security council. and kevin baron, the executive editor of defense, one news website. thank you both for joining me. kevin. let me just start with you and ask you, you know, we've had the leaks, we have, you know, little glimpses into america's views of what its allies are doing. decision making in ukraine strengths and weaknesses on the ukraine battlefield. but i guess as you step away from that one of the lessons you see right now for the sustainability of this conflict and america's role in it. well, i love to look, i think the just for the leaks i 1st, the story about the leaks is almost as regulatory as the leaks themselves. as you said, there are still controversy or not more. this is being made about what's true and

what's not within the british defense minister today said a data there, false cities in those leagues. but really, it shows that the larger public i think doesn't isn't paying attention to the u. k . or as much as maybe defense reporters like myself are because a lot of what we saw, we already knew, we knew that the americans believe that the ukrainians have limited capability. we knew that they, that they did not think the craniums have the ability to fully when the war, meaning kick, all the russians out of every interview. crane yes, including crimea. and that it was going to happen anytime soon. it's a long slog. these are things defense officials have been saying for months and they've been saying them publicly different ways, different, different versions of it. so what the lead shows is a lot of hard confirmation to it for people who maybe weren't believing what they were hearing or didn't know. and so all at once the whole world is talking about this, the simmering doubt about the future of the war. man, i know that you are no longer in the national security council, but you sort of know how the place operates. and i think what we're trying to get

out today, not knowing we're secrets, but really kind of being truthful. little bit more honest about some of the cracks in perspective that are out there. and i'm particularly interested in an article by julia you offer that recently ran in puck called biden's private ukraine deadline. in addition to these documents that show that there is some anxiety about this war grinding on, and that there may be a gap between americas real position and desire and what ukraine thinks it's going to to do. but what are your insights in terms of managing expectations and relations around this sort of europe and russia file? well i think the ukrainians certainly understand the picture on the ground just as well as our intelligency that i think ukrainians know that they are in for one of the toughest fights that they can possibly have to try to go after the russia problem. you know, all the russian troops that are inside their country, you know,

those, those troops as incapable as they seem to be. ready going on the offensive and actually taking more ukrainian ground there still, you know, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of russian soldiers that are going to have to be dug out of entrenched positions and blasted out of your. ready ford areas, and that's not an easy task, and i think, you know, what the united states is saying is we do our intelligence assessments, is that is a very difficult operational military problem. it's going to be very costly and it's going to require immense amounts of material ammunition, and i get the sense that you, we, we don't think that maybe the ukrainians have all the equipment that they need and all the ammunition that they need to solve this very difficult and intractable operational problem. when isn't the deficit in the ammunition and supplies that they have a needed, isn't that a function of us is not a function of nato allies? i mean, if they don't have what they need to fight this conflict,

they're not domestically procuring this inside ukraine. right now they've got to acquire it from those that are supplying supporting it. so is the fault in that back in washington and in brussels. we're, you know, among other capitals. i think it's a contributing factor. i mean, look we've, we've sent immense amounts of equipment and it's been very helpful. i'll be it. we've sent it. we run our hands and we've taken our time and you know, a lot of cases we've sent it after you know, a long period of time, which probably wasn't necessary. but when it comes to, you know, piles of ammunition that i get the sense we're, we've pushed as much as we can as fast as we can, you know, in the current environment. and they're just are not unlimited supplies of this stuff to continue giving to the craniums, especially, you know, some of these, you know, air defense systems and some of the lower density pieces of equipment that are super capable on the battlefield. there's only so many, there's discrete numbers, and when we're adding up all of the pieces and parts, it's going to be

a close run thing for ukraine to get all of what they need on hand and to be able to employ in the months to come to effectively create some kind of rush and route that pushes him out of these territories. and so it's everything. everything is on the table right now for just a grinding slug fest for the rest of this year. ukrainians may get some breakthroughs and push through, or it could grind down to just a bloody stalemate by the end of this year. kevin, let me ask you point blank, you know, the strategic class in washington. well general's admiral's current. former is all that if we gave the ukrainians f. 16 fighters if we gave them long range missiles and other long range weapons as ukraine, going to go invade attack inside russia. i mean, that's one of our concerns, isn't it? it is. and to their credit, they haven't now with the equipment they've been giving given cents, then i want to interrupt you. there's your concern at the blowing up the north stream pipeline, some concerned about assassinations inside russia,

a various personalities, pro war personalities inside russia may have been done at, you know, the hands of ukrainian agents. and so if you're in that you're already worried about and beyond border military activity, are the ucr and do they have it almost a ridiculous question to ask of the ukrainians. because again, if you want them to push every russian out of every and that means you don't just attack the russian forces within ukrainian territory, you attack where they're coming from, you attack the bases are coming from the air bases. the supply routes, which is all inside russia. so it's an inherent to the idea of military victory will require that. but all those other, you know, sabotaged assassination. you know, those are you know, credit. yes. that's ukrainians. prop possibly, perhaps are reportedly doing, you know, doing things inside of russia, but that's not, there are doing things with american hardware credit. if you're sticking just with the idea of the pentagon equipment every, every step along the way, like my i was saying, there's been a call for increased to increase the events capability of the weapons. the west is

given the ukrainians. there's been a delay and then eventually it comes, it started, you know, back with anti tank javelins in the spring and it's worked to say hi mars and then the latest attack comes and then f sixteens, right. and the answer from the pentagon is always the same. we talked to the trainings every day, we give them what we think they need to win right now. and we're giving your opinions what they want. well, those aren't, aren't always the same things and we know it, we know it publicly because the reclaims are saying we want these things specifically in the pentagon is making excuses. so just yesterday, the top policy official, the pentagon column call, gave an interview with foreign policy magazine. he was asked the f 16 question to his answer. the pentagon's answer is if they decided today to give them, they wouldn't arrive for about a year and a half within a capable force. and so f 6 and the decision to give f sixteens would not help the spring offensive wouldn't help the summer. but it would, it would, it would tag a lot of resources that could be used for other things like ammunition now. so it's not a 0 sum game. it's not an endless pit of kit that the united states has to give.

and it's, it is getting shorter and shorter than just last week. the pentagon authorized a $250000000.00, half a $1000000000.00 payment to reject rocker dine for rocket men, engines, and rock and fuel mr. one company, this is an enormous effort, depended on no man. i mean, i asked you about absolutely. if i were vladimir zelinski, i think i would want f sixteens, you know, i think there, you know, things to bomb use. but can you explain to me the logic behind why the biden national security council does not want to give f sixteens to ukraine? yeah, i think as kevin brian excuses are somewhat disingenuous, you know, i think there's a, there's been a, just a constant hesitation on the part of the administration to give these pieces of equipment because they're worried about this, you know, mysterious russian escalation that could happen if these, if these weapons are handed over to the craniums, we should be long past any consideration of any particular weapon system being the

trigger that causes russia to escalate into something dangerous. they have plenty of opportunities in the past and that proven, incapable and making good on those promises. so honestly, there's really no excuse for the administration not to be giving the ukrainians everything that they ask for and give it to them when they ask for it. now whether f sixteens or the difference maker when it comes to a battlefield, that would certainly help them with their defense and controlling their airspace. so it's a, it's a useful tool. ready and something that i think we're capable of doing without pulling from you know, to many other places or short circuiting our overall support. it would be a helpful weapon system, but also demonstrate a huge capability to the russians and give them yet another thing that they have to worry about. battlefield is this rushes afghanistan that will take generations to recover from. is this a potential trap for the us in europe as well? because i worry that as we're doing all of this, your, your friends that were over, you know, handling asia at the national security council watching china largely rise and, you know, seeing 2 of its potential, former competitors go at it. while it has basically a free hand and

a lot of other fronts, are we being distracted into, you know, an endless pit here of weapons and intrigue, and cos on both sides. i don't really, really, don't think so. from the russians perspective, this is afghanistan on steroids. this is the worst geopolitical catastrophe that they've inflicted on, on themselves in recent memory. and it will take decades for them to recover and for them to regain any kind of position in the world or gain geopolitical strength . their, their position is seeping out every day that they're involved with ukraine and they're alienating europe. they've, they've certainly pushed no closer together. they've lost ukraine for a generation. if not longer. they pushed ukraine into the, into the arms of the european union and greater western integration. so absolute catastrophe for russia and welcome news for the united states and our western partners. and i don't see it as a distraction on the big political game, political chess board as far as us taking off the ball with the china. i think

there's a strong oregon argument to be made that are support for ukraine is essential and it's an investment in our own interest. and we're getting for pennies on the dollar . we're doing what we're doing to russia. ukraine. what we have tried to set out to do with our great power competition and all our strategies to deal with russia as a great power competitor. ukraine is dismantling russia's great power capabilities every single day. while they're sweeping up huge chunks of the russian military and doing a lot of the hard work that would have fallen to us into nato. if russia had, you know, continued to maintain their great power status. so i said as an investment in our interests and certainly certainly not a trap because i think we're getting, we're getting a grand bargain out of this. that will only help us in the larger, larger stage when we can focus some of those efforts. refocused them on china where we wouldn't have to. we're not, we're not gonna have to consider dealing with russia as

a huge threat in the coming years. and probably a couple decades give us your take on the lease documents you lease documents came through a private little group and, and you know, a minecraft game or some sort of, you know, gaming chord and jack to share apparently has been arrested accused of, of leaking this 21 year old guy who, who had a top secret security clearance and, and for compartmentalized information. i'm interested in the incident, but i'm also interested in official secrecy in washington. and how our allies must be looking at this and whether we're in trouble with england, with france, with australia, with germany, with ukrainian will over the fact that a 21 year old kid could be playing these games and putting top secret higher for your question. what we're just talking about there are politics that lead this to happen. this isn't just a 20 or on year old. a young person in the united states for mark taylor green, red mark is now defending this course, right in courses. and he's not just

a 21 year old with access to top secret information that's not unusual in the american system. in fact, our system was purposely built to lower the level of, of availability to classified information so that the students can be made faster. and this is the, this is a lesson of the wars american garrison. let me feel commanders and equivalent intelligence officers have that capability. whether you're just making briefing books for your general that you work for, or you have another role. but this kid was not just an average american, he already was a radicalized right wing extremists. yeah. you know, his largely are statements online saying that that are anti symmetric. there are racist. he's a gun obsessive. he's anti government, but he's already in the military and he said he was regretting as decision of being in the military. that is part of the, the rise of extreme his right wing or politics that's, that's creeping across america. and depending on how to deal with this, the military still with it, what it leads to is everything else you said allies are now seeing what, what, what did i say really think to them and, you know, i see a lot of intelligence special saying, yes, it's damaging but you know,

in our world allies know that i think this way about each other. they know they have they spine each other. they know they have secrets, they know they have. they have considerations. some are bigger than others. one of the biggest ones might be that egypt and we're going to give rockets to the, to the russians. that's a big deal that there i states i want to address with the egyptians. for example, let me ask you also, matt, when it comes to thinking about where this war is going, do you see the outcomes as we've heard from general mark milly, we've seen other, you know, combatant commanders week out that we essentially need to see some sort of negotiated process in end of this, begin, where are you on that? well, it's too early for either side to come to the negotiating table because they neither side has gotten to that stage where they can't, they can't continue on with the losses that they have. i think both sides are set russians are going to continue to trade bodies for time. ukrainians right now, still have a force in being and they're rapidly building up combat power for this upcoming counter offensive. and i think we're just going to have to see it's very contingent

upon a lot of things happening and we just don't know how fragile is the russian military . how hollow is that force if they're punched in the face? ready they fracture and give ground or will they, will they resist and will they yield? but just give ground that has to be retaken again. those are all the questions that are going to be answered here in the coming months. and if the russians been but don't break them, we're in for yet another year of fighting. and we'll see if the ukrainians can withstand that cost, both economically and the cost and in blood. but if, if the russians truly are as fragile as they might be, and some of the, you know, the morale indicators and equipment indicators show that that's not a great force that you want to be commanding. and there's only so much abuse that that force can take if the, if the ukrainians can find those pressure points in those cracks and smash it with enough mass and velocity. then you might see a rolling russian retreat that yields a lot of ground, like we saw last year when the last time the ukrainians had

a major, major kind of counter offensive. kevin had this guy, i think it's important to remember we're dealing with a madman who controls madman here. this is not, there's no logic to any of this. you know, the, the, the effort by the russians to take you create isn't one battle alone. some giant front, and if it doesn't go well, it makes sense that they would pull back and try something. none of this makes sense, right? so it's, that's let's, it's so hard for us around this table to try to predict and it makes it harder. i think for the pentagon, i do give a little bit of leeway to depending on planners and, and whether in uniform or civilian or college and trying to figure this out. it's easy for us to say, why don't they just get an f sixteens? you know, the school, a tory worry is over awards. it's been proven that russia is not going to do it. well, maybe we hope, but it's not on our head and it's not on our watch and we're not the ones under oath not to make those decisions. the guys, depending on do. and there is, there's some validity to the argument that there's, there's of course urgency to end award, their suffering going on and ukraine. but if it's going to take

a little longer to save a greater were a disaster, then that's maybe what it's going to take. and people have to make those decisions to so i agree with not that, you know, we're seeing just incremental movement, but a lot of people think that's always going to be good news for the ukrainians. anything that keep any, anytime we're not saying russia has taken a city, taken a province as march to keep their own. the country, like their initial goal was, is a good day for ukraine until the, the tide can be turn. and if you can, can turn it the only person that can is, or somebody in russia to change his calculus because it's not even the russian forces or finance these wagner forces. there isn't crazier than the russians. they're their leaders. so you know, good luck making sense of it all, but it everyone, nobody thinks it's going to be quick. everyone thinks it's going to be time, no matter what kind of weapons are, do you? we do, we have a divide between the pentagon and white house kevin over things like prosecuting war crimes, cooperating with the international criminal court. we just saw this horrific be

heading of a ukraine and soldier seemingly by russian troops that has made its way around the internet. it's one of those horrible things i've seen. and that's only one microcosm of accusations on both sides of this. but my understanding is that the biden whitehouse wants to cooperate in bringing people to justice through the international criminal court. but the pentagon is not cooperating, fearing of setting a template where it, its own soldiers may in fact be held account. right. that's what that's always been there that hasn't taishan for the united states joining the international criminal court. and frankly, it's almost always come from the right. it's been a sphere of never allow a united states soldiers become commanded by a foreigner, even though they already are in our current system and people to know that a lower levels. but i think it depends on what you mean by inside the pentagon. you know, nobody might, administration probably things differently, but there are, you know, military men who come through the system, some of whom think that military men, of all stripes of all, you know, allies will, should honor this code. and should there should be some sort of standard that,

that they can be held to others believe what we were saying earlier that nope, we don't, i'd never want to have to hand over an american soldier to a foreign court to decide what of what he did was right or wrong based on our laws based on miracles laws, america's guidance. so i don't know what's the thinking as deep inside the pentagon about this. i do think that there is agreement and it's already been said that there are war crimes, general milli, chairman the joint chiefs, he's been saying for months and months that russia's committee war crimes. they are committing crimes against a man, and he's listed them out publicly in press conferences for everyone to see. so the president senior most military advisor believes so. let me just ask you both. finally, do you worry that, that this conflict which has been somewhat contained, has not triggered nato has not led to nukes on, on the battlefield yet. but mat, do you worry that that final blow could actually lead to the escalation of this conflict? folks have been trying to avoid always in the back of everybody's minds. you get

one combat and that's got tactical nuclear weapons and potentially could employ those under certain circumstances of which we're not totally sure what those triggers might be. so that is of course, in the back of people's minds and i think the russians are going to suffer horrendous casualties before this is all said and done. ukrainians are going to suffer equal amounts of casualties proportionately. it's going to be very bloody. there's still a lot of fighting left in this conflict and it's, it's going to take a lot more sacrifice before either side is going to be willing to say that's, that's enough. the costs are too high, and we need to seek some kind of resolution. i don't see the russians ever getting to that point. they're either going to have to be defeated on the battlefield or ukraine's going to have to say, this is, this is too painful and we're gonna, we're going to go to the go shooting table. kevin final word, you know, i think here, right the and they're mad that with, without, without some sort of pre, you know,

preconceived agreement within their countries to take a big loss. there's no end inside meaning. and number one is crimea. so everyone assumes that, well, you can, we'll get to that point where they're done fighting and they know they're not going to take crime and they don't the forces, they don't have the equipment. they don't, the kid russians not giving it up. so that will be the entry point, and russia will be happy to say we've done enough will you know where we've suffered enough and will pull out, will take that, but it's more than crime. it really is the rest and all the country east of the day . peer which has a lot of strategic value, a lot of land to the sea that require much more face. and i don't see negotiation any anytime in sight. and the pentagon saying that either when they're asked directly, i think, you know, even even milly, who has said, all wars need to get to negotiate and, and ukraine doesn't have the forces you know, to, to do this easy job of taking out hundreds of thousands of russian troops and forces no one, nobody is really putting it on the table yet it would be be a shock to all of us if it started anytime soon. well, former national security council director, mat demik and defense one editor,

kevin baron, sobering conversation. thanks so much for joining us today. thanks. good. so what's the bottom line? what needs to happen to get russia and ukraine to the negotiating table? the answer depends on how much tolerance there is for this war inside the united states, inside europe, inside russia, and also yes, inside ukraine. the longer the conflict goes, the harder it is for allies to manage the politics and the economics of supporting ukraine. and that assumes that the war is done through proxies and not a direct conflict with either american or nato allies lives on the line. the future of the ukraine conflict will probably not end nicely or neatly, even if negotiations start they could be disrupted by barbaric acts on the battlefield, or the threat of nukes, again. and then even after the war comes to some sort of end, the russian people and the ukrainian people have suffered hugely from their losses . and they're going to struggle to move forward and rebuild. there is just no fairy

tale ending here. and that sadly, the reality and the bottom line, ah, freight companies fake passports, international banks, and the proceeds of organized crime. that was his baggy p. a. les valenzuela water from the both of yoga with friction is obviously in a remarkable 3 part. people empower investigation into a complex, secretive world. 2 journalists go in search of the italian mafia is dirty money. launderer part one on a j 0, getting close to the people most affected by those in power is often dangerous, but it's absolutely vital that the stories to be told that subsided in this area. we pushed the fall food as we can to the front line. now, the smell of death is overpowering. a lot of the stories that we cover

a high the conflict. so it's very important that we make them as understandable as we can to as many people as possible no matter how much they know about a given price. she saw issue as al jazeera correspondence. that's what we strive to do. move on carry johnson and i want to talk stories on the al jazeera sedans armies assisting in the evacuation of foreign nationals as gunfire st bottles and s trots . continuing the capital cartoon. fighting between saddam's army and the rapids support forces is spilled into a 2nd week. he been, morgan has more from cartoon. while many people who spoke to say say that the fighting on saturday has been the most intense and most fear is 15 since the start of the class.