talk to al jazeera, we ask, who is really fighting? is all russia? is it wagner, or is it the russian military? we listen, we started talking to me, am i also that this is the at your citizen? he shook them back. we meet with global news makers and talk about the stories that matter on al jazeera, bold, and i'm told stories from asia and the pacific on al jazeera, another warning on global climate change this time from the world meteorological organization. it says that frightening trends have been supported by who's to blame and can anything be done to reverse them? this isn't less with

l, i walk into the program, i'm m, ron con. the state of the global climate is alarming to say the least. that's according to a report by the u. n. z w m. o. it says people on every continent are being affected after many records linked to climate change. what broken last year? they included those on rain fall in pakistan. heat waves in china and europe and ocean temperatures also reached record highs with nearly 60 percent suffering. at least one marine heat wave. the reports has trying to save the glassy as is a lost cause underlying the irreversible nature of climate trends on our planet will go to our guests in a moment. but 1st, this report a year of extremes. the u. n says 2022. so sea levels and ocean heat which record levels and it described those for the melting of some glasses in europe as of the charts and its annual global climate report. the world meteorological log, as ation says,

antarctic sea ice fell to its lowest extent. ever recorded adds to a final warning last month issue by the u. s. climate body. the i p c. c. the time is running out the world. we have already lost this sir. this melding of glazier game and as he lever arise game so, so that, so that's bad news and, and then the, according to i, b, c, c, the conservative estimate of foresee level rises said half meter to one meter per, per sensory. this is all part of what the you and describes as quote planetary scale changes on land in the ocean and in the atmosphere. in europe, the report says at least $15000.00 people died last year due to intense heat waves . and in africa, more than 1700000 people in somalia, and he theo pier were displaced from the homes by drought. at the other extreme flooding devastated pakistan, leaving about

a 3rd of the nation's submerged and 8000000 people displaced. the report also warns more extreme weather could be seen seams next year, if no action is taken to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. will be the accelerated action in 3 areas. first, net, seattle, deadlines. my proposal is fully others of developed countries to commit to reaching net 0 as close as possible to 2040 the limits. you should all aim to respect and for leaders of emerging economies to commit to reaching that 0 as close as possible to 2050. the developing world is suffering disproportionately from climate disasters and so far, only a few nations are on track to meet their climate goals. and according to the un, to avert disaster nations must adapt quickly to a warming planet. or it'll be too late or exc topless for insight story. ah,

let's go now to our guests. joining me in evening and netherlands is leon simons. he's a climate researcher in new york, david holland. he's a professor of mathematics and atmosphere ocean science in the crohn's institute at a new york university, abu dhabi and in texas. andrew kruschevich, senior researcher columbia university's climate school. a warm welcome to you all like to begin in texas. first with andrew cruz. great. andrew, we've been talking for so long now about climate change, but it's not climate change anymore as climate changed. and surely this terminology is part of the problem we're looking at now terminology there should suggest climate damage controlled climate damage, limitation and proposing radical solutions. now where we're past the point of no return, surely. well, what we're really talking about is understanding the disproportionality of impact of climate in climate change on different populations on different industries. and at different times we're starting to see even more of this disproportionality. what

i mean by that is, yes, we're seeing extreme events and we have the data to document that and to understand the trench. but we need to get better at understanding who is impacted to what extent and then understand to what extent we could make early warnings and especially early action to, to mitigate impact on the most underserved populations and the industries that are most critical. we've seen that in new york, we've seen that in texas. we've seen that all over the world, so that's what we need to move more towards leo, would you agree with that? would you agree that there are. busy people that being more affected perhaps than others and we need early warning systems. yes, we need 31 systems and we need to know when where change will happen. and that's one important aspect of that is the emissions of sulfur. and we know there's a rapid reduction, so permissions globally, which means especially in northern hemisphere, we will take

a lot of change happening very soon. and we need to be warned about it. and we'll go over the nation to make sure that we need warning systems about trouts about floods. hello fi as above level rise, call changes to be made. but in order to figure this, it is the root causes of the problem is david holland, in new york. david, we've been talking about this now for 30 years, at least taking it very seriously to have been micro agreements that have taken place or the un has put out its recommendation. several other organizations have said, let's do this. let's do this. but none of those of actually happened reducing the temperature of the planet. one of the things that we tried to do that hasn't actually happened, there is no way that the world can come together in the way that it needs to. surely, i think that was probably true 5 years ago. it takes

a while for things to move from the ground swell if you will, to what's actually happening. and what i mean by that. for example, if you take the united states, the goal that the president set out by 2030 or so to have a certain decrease in carbon is ation worry. we are already halfway there are close to it. so remarkable change is actually happening now. and that's been caused by people will a people to want to preserve the planet and protect it. and so changes actually happening. and i think we're going to see that reflected in the next few years under his an optimistic assessment. you think from david? yes, i do think it's an optimistic assessment and i think the questions that come to my mind are, is related to change change for who i mean this is an opportunity trying to trying to correct what has been, what has been happening over the past 30 years. and longer it's, we have

a responsibility to prioritize underserved populations, systematically, deepak, prioritize populations and communities. and to me that's, that's really how we have to measure progress. sure we, we are making some progress as noted in some industries in some areas of the world . but if we are to, to use this transition to, to a more sustainable way of living in a more sustainable, sustainable way of living on earth. we need to, we need to do a better job at prioritizing the communities that are, that are usually in traditionally under served in d. prioritize. leo, would you agree with the way it's not about a global impact at the moment? it's not about global strategy, but we need to identify the communities most effective. yes, for sure. before i don't, i don't really see the progress of some steps being taken by the band for years

have been high. it is 3 level c o 2 emissions. highest level meet st growth and yet misfire what about me and running? which means we see more and more warming climate model. ringback which shows a low scenario warming data. same stage will be going down, is that they'd be a rep and the records and as mentioned before, the face of so rapidly decreasing. and so has been hiding that we'll build a warming. and now what, what we are decreasing. so for the emissions and not decreasing little load, increasing the green missions. you see the increase in wanting the rate for me was 4 times 396-2000. so i

don't see that much proto progress. that's where you would need to really reduce the expected and developing countries and we become more based program which 50 degrees temperature last very much for the month to change. we need to be aware of this need to be paid about is of i forget just let alone mitigate the risks. i mean, david holland, you did give us a fairly optimistic assessment. certainly. laura. terrific. them. maybe i've heard on the show in the past, but you've heard on to other guess that what is driving your thinking? that why do you think that we are on the right? so i live in new york city, new york state in new york city, have ambitious plans to d carbonized within the next decade or 2. new york city's electricity grid is already something like a quarter of the way there. i see this change happening in terms of new york city,

the largest co providing plan or in the city is being converted to a hydro electric plant to renewable resources. i just see that there's a groundswell happening now where people are taking this problem, really serious because of what the other 2 guests are saying this. what they're saying is really thinking in, and i'm seeing the serious motivation no longer is this a side issue? this is for most on people's minds and big changes are happening. but david, it is happening in industrialized countries. this isn't happening in iraq, for example, is happening in pakistan in places a really affected by climate change. and i will touch on this andrew, just earlier that we need to focus on those communities as well as those places. but you can't go in and force people to make radical changes, particularly when there are economic considerations involved. some of the most poorest places on the planet are the most affected parks on full one. how do you,

how do you do that? how do you get them to change? so i think it's a combination to just the 1st part of the question and build up what, what david holland was saying. i mean, yes, in new york, it's a great, it's a good example of making progress at the city and the state level. and we're seeing that in different places in the united states, in many developed countries and also in other countries as well. however, we must remember that we are seeing extreme weather events that are leading to greater impact in some communities, even within the most developed countries. new york city, we had devastating flash floods a couple years ago that led to over 20 to 30 deaths. and all of those does happened in new york city in areas that are the lower the lowest income areas in the city. so it speaks to the point of what they were saying, can we have both? can we be making good progress and also still potentially have some,

some areas where we need to focus on the most extreme. that's a tails of the distribution in terms of the social economic factors that go into, in this case. what a disaster, what, what a disaster really yes. what are the different ingredients of a disaster, for example? so i think that's important to say. now in other countries, yes, i think this is, this is something that we, that we must keep in mind. we've seen with the climate negotiations forcing anyone a country and industry to change hasn't really worked so well. now in the u. s, for example, we are seeing more of a culture shift, you know, it's more of a social shift towards, towards mid, towards making these changes. it's generational in some way. so that does give me hope. it gives me hope in the us. it also gives me hope and other areas of the world. we will see this generational shift, hopefully lead to pressure to, to have more better policy for the environment and for the climate. and this is also something that came up in the w mower for, i think they did

a good job at highlighting ecosystems and environment within a climate reports. and this is we knew we haven't really seen that so much. so these different factors do, do, give me hope. however, it is important to understand the difference between most of the populations, most of the communities, and then also the most underserved the tales of the distribution. perhaps we will need different approaches and different strategies for these different segments of the population. actually, leon, he, andrew makes a very good point here. there is a generational shifter, a happening as a younger generation, perhaps more environmentally aware than possibly any generation before this. now let's remember the, all of this climate change climate change has come from, you know, the industrial revolution. an is come from capitalism. that's, you know, it's the drive for profit that has seen us reco planet. and this generation has noticed that and they're much more talking about sustainability and things like that. but is this all just lip service can there at what's the practical that needs

to be done, leon? a lot of lives so many people really think we we can change them and we should change them a trying to look at what happens in europe last year. 50000 people died from a summer 15000 people. that's 10 times as many people may airlines. and still people are talking about changing to shutting down nuclear power plant. high school in germany barring for 15 years or the phone talks about the gold about 2050 or 2030 or, or whatever. but we don't see the reduction in emission change concentration. anything

going wrong? we see here too just keeps rising again, the sulfur declining. so we see a rapid increase in walking 4 times as fast as between 962000 and the warming now. and there's a lot of heat being accumulating in the system that's not being released. yes, we need changes. for example, i'm not against capitalism. i'm looking for a country with other than 10000000 people. where on the day you still use folk again to have 1000000000 people around the world as sustainable solutions are solutions for people and they get it. they are willing to pay for that. they pay for food pay for fuel. so if they as

a business case and you can reduce those costs, again, save the environments and make a more sustainable performance for the people as well. there is a solution which also work together with capitalism. so i don't think we should throw away decisions. we have what we should be aware of, the changes that are happening to cause, which are the record, increasing greenhouse gases, and decreasing so formations which are going to play. and those are the most effects, especially in one regions, especially in a speed that changes in practice, a debit. i'm going to come to you just and i want to put the point to end up in texas and we have long demanded infinite growth from a planet with finite resources. that's the bottom line of capitalism. that's why

where, where we are now, our guest in the netherlands, they only saying that actually there is sustainable capitalism. there is a cute and cuddly version of capitalism that might help us solve the planet sold environmental crisis. what do you make of that? yes, i mean, i think i would have to, to learn more about the definitions of that and what yeah. and what the motivating factors are, but that is definitely not my expertise, but i would be, i'm interested in learning about what the different definitions could look like. or the definition looks like and then also how was it different? i mean, something we're seeing in, in the climate world very broadly speaking is saying we're seeing new terms and new, new ways to, to refer to things. and yeah, i think that the private sector, and not only the private sector governments as well, are getting very good at using some of these terminologies. so i just think being specific about what that means, then perhaps i could comment on it,

but i was something i can say is with capitalism a we have we seen have what have we seen in terms of, in terms of the lower income populations in terms of them having equal access to, to the resources, at least at a proportional level. and how would that change if we have sustainable, sustainable capitalism? so those are some of the types of questions or thoughts that i have. but again, i would need to know more about the specific let me put that point to david, is there such a thing as environmentally sustainable capitalism? do you think that's an excellent question. that's not my expertise. on a personal note, i've never understood the idea that we always must grow the economy by 3 percent and the mathematician that makes no sense at some topically because we run out of planet. so i'm become very confused by the economics that are driving our planet.

but i did want to bring up a different point, which is the public or seen a lot of these reports. the ip came out 2 months ago or so, and made many of these points. this was the world meteorological organization, also an arm of the un. and one of the points that made is about observing the planet for the entire foundation of our conversation is that is climate change really happening? and the answer is, yes, it's extremely likely that humans are changing the planet. that's a very strong statement. and what it's based on is observation, and for example, missing last 2 years has shopped through the roof, but we don't know where it's coming from. and so there's an emphasis in this report about observing the planet. and so we need to engage the coming generation in a real desire to book, to act in the science and technology, etc. in order to observe the planet and understand it myself working antartica on the so called doomsday glaze here. that's kind of the linchpin of global level. it

looks like that glazer is unstable. we're still trying to model it and understand it. maybe not in time if the collapses. so the idea of the report is that the secretary general stated the, the plan for if you will only warning for all. and so we should put a little bit of focus on the fact that we need to observe to find a better because the punch line is we can't mitigate. if we really don't understand where the change is happening. now we're running out of time. i want to get an answer from all 3 of you just very, very quickly. i'll begin with leon simon's leon, m. if it's not, capitalism is not sustainable capitalism than it has to be signs. that is, the solution. is signs the solution to this? is there a science that could be the magic bullet? there is no one who single, mighty, right? so if you look at, for example, greenhouse gas emissions, it's not one source. we can just shuttle. we are,

we don't know the old planet. everyone uses oil. the fossil fuel, the greenhouse gases consume me and i meant to me by as he made me think. so we have to be clear about one solution which cancel everything. we will be missing green out because for quite a while we should work on the solution. so we need to industry, we need people. busy we need, we need science with science and ignore the, the crucial blocks of the system which are changing reality. so we should be aware of this for them, but $11.00 aspect. so image which i keep mentioning the report, the one of the big discussion about missing these articles on purpose. and then

there was a debate between interiors and the need. and then they just stop mentioning, you solve for at all because some countries might decide to emit from purpose and cool planning. but i think that's, that's sort of the process my back would start to be reason to discuss the crucial aspect of what's changing what's being the most rapid change recently. and i'm going to jump in half wanting out time. and i want to come to david and andrew david were talking about like science should signs take the lead over governmental institutions over private business is science. the only way out of this the foundation of this whole heinman discussion is a scientific one. and then politicians have to take action based on the science. the topic of g o engineering was just brushed on. that's an extremely important topic, very sensitive one going forward. so the, the, the science really is the key to this because we're seeing that solar and wind

energy coming down in price me coming affordable where we're lacking is in carbon capture technology as we see, to go to carbon neutrality by 2040. i really think carbon capture is something we all need to focus on because that can solve a large part of the problem. and without the technology, which we currently don't have, but we can get to, we are in some mark problem. so i'm gonna come to your under, in just a 2nd. david cobb and capture is a new term on me. it's not something i really understand. i'm sure it's not something you're already into understandable. quick very quickly. what is it? carbon dioxide is the atmosphere and the question is, can you draw back down? so we put in some 80, giga tons a year, some large volume of carbon gas, carbon dioxide. now we withdraw. yes. and some small scale projects have already demonstrated this recently one in iceland involving caption carbon to interaction with volcanic rocks. people are talking about sea grass around the coast lines of

the world. see grass water cor sucks in carbon dioxide. so there are, there are thoughts about how can we grab the carbon out of the atmosphere in stuart . so that, that technology right now is very expensive. and we have to think about governments putting in policy only. i will continue just a 2nd. i want to come to andrew, andrew, we're talking about carbon capture, which is like as a new term for me. but once again, it signs the leading the way that science is going to be controversial. do you think there are these radical, almost sy fy ideas that can change the way we are at the moment? well, i think, i think we need to have discussions around them at this point. i mean, safe, i, i don't think it's appropriate term anymore because the technology as wives is widely available are very closely attainable. so where we need to make sure that organizations such as humanitarian organizations, not only have a seat at the table, but have a voice that is integrated in, in a, in a systematic way into these discussions and are driving these discussions. i think

that's where things can go very wrong if we don't have the manitoba voice. it's substitute level within the discussions. it's more than just getting people out of the table. it's understanding the governance of these discussions and the roles and responsibilities of the different organizations and who they represent. so yes, science is a big, it's a big part. but as many different types of science, we have climate science. we have social sciences that we also need to bring more into the mix, i believe, especially when we're talking about early morning, i guess the w mo has the early warning for all initiative. it's really as, as great potential. however, warnings and alerts are just part of the answer. there is a big gap between warnings and alerts and actually taking action. and there's a big gap between taking action and taking action in the communities that needed the most. so we need to also integrate the social science, the governance aspects, because what are other other guests are saying as well?

i want to thank old, i guess the own simons, david holland and andrew kruschevich. and i want to thank you as well for watching . you can see the program again anytime by visiting our website out there, dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at a inside story. from me m. o con on the whole team here. i know the ah and when the news breaks, this is a test nationwide strike since the beginning of the year when people need to be

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ah, ah, ah, ah, no less off in the fire. st. confrontations continue between the sudanese army and the rapid support forces with reports that many civilians are missing. there is no water to drink, there is no food to drink. you cannot go out to this treat to buy food.