home to the largest flock of asian king vouchers. once the captive population has large enough, the zoo plans to reintroduce them to the wild and see the agent, king vulture, fly high in the skies again. lena barclay, alicia zita. ah, this is al jazeera, the top stories this hour in sudan at least 459 people are reported to have been killed. in 11 days of fighting between the army and the paramilitary rapid support forces, sporadic gun fire and explosions have been heard in khartoum on tuesday, in spite of a cease fire agreement. a hospital was hit by shilling as had been morgan reports from the capital. that hospital in the is in the twin city of on demand and the twin city of the capitol cartoon, where there has been intense artillery strikes from the early hours of tuesday morning. despite the 72 hours cease, fire are coming into effect. now residency,

they were able to hear artillery stripes and that one of them had a roomy hospital in him to man and that several people were injured as a result of that artillery strike, they had to be moved to a hospital about 33 kilometers away to be able to get medical treatment. people continue to flee the capital cartoon, and on dorman, foreign governments are also evacuating diplomatic staff and citizens. the un says it is bracing for over $270000.00 refugees in chad himself. sedan u. s. president joe biden has announced his re election bid for 2024. biden's team has released a campaign launch video, the slogan, let's finish the job at age 80. he's already the oldest president in u. s. history, but he has brushed aside concerns about his fitness for a 2nd term. the number of bodies found on land owned by the leader of a religious cult in eastern kenya has risen to 89. authorities say the victim is

starved themselves to death after being told to stop eating by their pastor. he is now under arrest. turkish authorities have arrested more than a 100 people accusing them of having links to terrorism. some are members of the opposition people's democratic party. more than 20 different locations were rated and this comes less than 3 weeks before president wretch of type or to one faces what is expected to be a tight election race. a french court has halted the interior ministries planned to deport undocumented immigrants from an overseas territory in the indian ocean. on tuesday, france was due to expel those who had arrived in may yet without papers. the court says the move is illegal. those here headlines on al jazeera as always, our website al jazeera dot com up next. the street. those is in paris. why are electing a new president on april, the 30th foreign policy matters in the fight against corruption, have dominated campaign?

the governing party has been in power for more than 60 years. could this be the moment the opposition had been waiting call? follow the paraguay election this month on out to sierra. did a welcome to the stream. i'm josh rushing money in your pocket. no strings attached . sounds too good to be true, right. but supporters of universal basic income say providing unconditional payments to citizens would help with millions out of poverty, a bit uncertainty over the future of jobs. so today we're looking at initiatives have been trialed around the world. we want to ask at basic income programs. well, they're ready for a larger audience. joining us today from new york is guy standing, his co president of the basic income earth network and the author of the pro carry it, the new dangerous class seems oak. as a documentary filmmaker,

his film free money, examines the impact of a basic and come program on people that rule. kenya, he's in nairobi. and eleanor o donovan is an artist receiving funds through irelands recently launched basic income for the arts initiative. she's on iceland, east coast, and hey, well more see to the stable that you, if you're watching this on you to get me your question, see that box over there? we're going to lie, producer, wait and get your questions to me. so i can get them to the people in the pal and you know what we could do the sing together, right? so join me in the us, are ai i want to begin with, you the, the new book, the precarious. what is a pro carry? it tells about this dangers class. well, actually my new book is about how to pay for the basic income. but the precarious has gone into 4 editions and has been translated into 24 languages. and basically, the precarious is the big mass class of the world. the bay and it consists of millions of millions of people who are facing chronic instability in their lives.

unstable labor, no and volatile, incomes and a chronic keep in debt. one mistake, one accident while they melt illness and they're out homeless or they think that so that people facing extreme precariousness and then losing the rights of citizenship, the losing social rights, the news and cultural rights than losing economic rights. and fundamentally, the most important thing for this conversation is that they feel like supp pickens, the deal is if they have to ask the favors from landlords from employers, from relatives or bureaucrats dealing with them. and this, this is a terrible, existential way of living, in which millions of people are getting very angry. the less educated listen to the voices of populist extremists, like donald trump. the more progressive educated group are looking for

a new politics on these people are drawn to basic income. and it's a very important development because we now have a mass class, which is really in favor of basic in gum and the opinion polls all over the world. are showing that while eleanor, so you're an artist, you're at a you can explain it better than me but an art ah retreat or something right there in iceland. but before that you were in ireland and were you able to, i guess, produce art of the same way that you do now before you were chosen for the u. b. i trial there. yes, so this month i am on an artist residency and i think, but i do you live in ireland and and before i was randomly selected to be a participant in the basic income for the arthur and in ireland, i was working part time to be able to support myself,

to pay for my rent and then also to support myself as an artist in the studio. and so getting the basic income, it's like winning the lottery, you know, it's, it's been hugely transformed. i've already, for my, our practice. and just for my general life and sense about being, i think, yeah, i'm looking at you in that art studio and i'm just thinking like, this seems good for humanity that you can actually dedicate more time in your life to something creative than just trying to survive. in a capitalist economy, it has it enriched your life in that way. yeah, absolutely. i mean, i love what i do and i was always grateful to be able to do it. even if i could only have spent 2 or 3 days a week. do i guess what, what this means is that i can kind of relax a bit and i guess something that is quite relevant to being an artist is that you need time to you and spend in the studio to spend thinking it to kind of not necessarily be productive or to do stuff that doesn't, doesn't say look productive and having the basic income just means that i have this

luxury now of time where i can sort of relax and think more about what i making. so it has really just been phenomenal. yeah. it just speaks to humanity, the sense that we can be more than cogs in a machine that's designed purely to make profits. um, so co who's with us is a film director. he has this movie called free money. i want to share a clip with you, but he follows a number of people in the kenyan. a rural kenyan village could go. could you do that? right? and you followed him for how long stucco for 5 years, for the trials are right. yep, my codec. good night, lauren: full of them for the task. let's, let's watch this clip together. ah, [000:00:00;00]

i might with so it strikes me there so that this is so powerful in their life that they, they attribute it to god. god is seen as and blessed us, but really it's, it's more just matter of economic policy. it's a matter of people getting together within a society or an economy and saying, hey, we could approach this a little differently, right. i think it speaks to the depth of poverty and the depth in weeks luck takes you to the turning into faces like religion and all this other faces. because the level of the peroration and i think the idea and in this case the following funding in the village that the concept of implementation of a u. b,

i was to uplift people from extreme poverty. i think it's kind of been level where you, you just need, might need to do, you know, basic to do basic things. you know, food, shelter, common education. there are things that can just shouldn't be a no brainer in terms of if you think about the thing as, as humanity. however, a lot of people are put in a space where these are not the, the systems that exist instructors that exist. i'm not beneficial. that i'm not helpful, i think because those structures are not helpful to be like the idea of them getting a consistent income every single month is a total game into a gut. you said in your book, me about how to pay for it. yeah. tell us what read is all the money come from. you asking me this, i'm asking you this guy. well, a, my, my feeling is that we can pay for a basic income of

a modest amount quite easily. if you think about it, governments hand billions, in the case of rich countries, billions of dollars or whatever it is in subsidies that mainly go to rich people tax breaks and so on. my own countries though a 400000000000 pounds a year. if you pay to everybody in bonnie's place again gum, you'll be much less than that. but i am also advocating eco fiscal policies of levies on people who take from the commons. and that includes having a carbon levy. we need a comp and levy, but they've got can only have a common levy if we recycle the income that gain from the carbon levy because otherwise it's regressive. in other words, it increases inequality. but we need a carbon tax. we need a high carbon tax because we've got to cut down on fossil fuels and greenhouse gas emissions. we can't go on as we've been doing. so i don't think the affordability

is really critical on the, i'm on the outline, various ways you can apply for it. and the important thing from our conversation is that to get governments to move in the direction of having a decent basic income for everybody. our pilots and i've been involved in 6 or 7 pilots altogether. a pilots show the the net cost is much less than the gross cost. what that means is that because it improves people's health, for example, its place is less stress, a stress on the health services. it reduces the cost of providing public health services. so governments gain by saving money the same with education, it improves educational attendance, educational performance, and therefore makes it a better investment. so you really shouldn't look at

a back of envelope calculation. you should look at what of the net returns and the dynamics of a moving towards a basic income as the anchor of a new welfare system soccer. and you want to jump in the i yes, i think the idea of whether basic income was or not is in many ways irrelevant because it kind of comes from they historic, discriminatory thinking of where as a society like we have a, i hate for poor people and it's like the idea that people who need to lead better life will have the ability to lead better lead becomes very complicated. the issue at hand, that is something that kind of like things that have to be talked about. i think like even with the giving of basic income, it is not exactly a silver bullet because unless you have better health care and that you have better education. and if you have all of the amenities that are available,

3 and capable of helping people and making life, you know, ok for people to exist and then we, we kind of end up just going round and round in circles discussing whether it's okay for people to have a certain level of income to support their basic existence. that's kind of a sad reality, i think. and unchecked capitalism and the pilot. you're talking about guy. these are experiments that have happened all over the world. no one's really taking this on as a, as a permanent economic policy. and eleanor, you right now are, i don't want to called a lab indicate year part of the experiment. and i'm curious, how do they measure in your life? the impact that has had on you yes, li, just to touch back on bless and the others are saying about the affordability of it . i mean, this is a pilot and ireland of 2000 people were getting paid for 17 grand a year for 3 years. i think it work cited by 25000000 a year, which is really just

a drop in the us. and in terms of, you know, irelands vogis and, but the benefits are just astronomical. i mean, like how they m record the impacts of the basic ink of the survey. and it has only been 6 months since we have only had to do the survey once. and they'll ask you questions about, you know, how much time have you been able to spend making, how much time have you been able to spend researching opportunities? but they also ask you questions like, how much sleep do you get to night, like per night? how many areas do you spend carrying after children or like else we relatives or you know, etc. so they really do take into account and the, the well being of the people who are receiving this basic income. and it's something that was, you know, it didn't just come out of nowhere. it was advocated for. there's the national campaign for the arts and ireland, which are really pushing for this basic income trial. and i mean, i should point out that it's not a universal paisley income, it's really just a very, very small sector of people working at ireland and bus, you know,

focusing as well on artist productivity and their well being. i think it's probably the most productive way of looking at what you're not alone here eleanora in are you tube audience? richard forest says that he's on the same you b, i program the year on earlier. he thinks he has, and he says he knows other artists in that program and they feel so supported guy, i got see that you wanted to jump in and i'm thinking about eleanor getting more sleep at night and wondering who's profiting off of her sleep? well, 1st of all, i mean we, we now have an enormous amount of evidence because there have been over a 150 pilots and experiments. the mayor's scheme in the united states is a really exciting initiative. 50 may as assigned up to do basic inc. um experiments, we done a huge basic income pilot in india where thousands of people were given a basic income when we evaluated it by comparison with people similar people who

weren't receiving it. and we found improvements in nutrition improvements in health improvements in health care improvements in work. and one of the biggest issues that keeps coming up is this claim that if you had a basic income, it would reduce people's work. well, i want, i want your listeners to listen very carefully to what i have to say in the next couple of seconds. basic income results in an increase in work and more productive activities in work and more collaborative and co operative forms of work. the evidence is overwhelming, and it's very important that we scotch that. but somehow if you have basic security, you're going to become indolent on the country, you feel more energized,

you feel more confident. do you feel more like taking entrepreneurial risks in your domain of life? and you care what care is work. it just isn't county does work in all statistics, but it's going to kill us. and it's, it's a feminist issue. it increases the amount of time that people can put in to care for their loved ones. that communities that it's a sales almost 2 years that be true, it sounds too good to be true. so but listen, you mentioned that this does happen in america. what are being a one clip and i will come back to you guys. but this clip is from a p, and it's looking stockton, california. we're the mayor, barbara at brother d e v. i very much firm and they're, they're checked us out. i'm surprised. an about is how many people are struggling. these are people with good jobs, small business owners, teachers, retired people, union members who are struggling, who are working hard, doing over and live on topler jobs not seen their kids,

nothing her hell that money gets me out of it. he said mine. and right now, my car, i got a car accident and my car, not tolan. so i didn't know car payments and now i have a car payment. and at many, i know it's not going to be forever. they put me a foot in the door to get a car and also to get the payments paid until the money runs out. so, so much of this seems to be about like our perception of something and so on going back to you here where it's like in capitalism, we blame the poor. and that's a part of the game as a part of the system that we need to blame the poor. how do you, how do you get over that mindset? how do you get people over that mindset? i can sam, 1st sample i think it is then in not only speaking about experimental thinking about what's happening and watching the stories of,

of the people who have gone through them. but at the same time and experiment that we were following the challenges and the intended consequences wasn't necessarily based on the fact that the shipments and experiences are the money than intended. consequences were in things like say, the sources of the money kind of came come through a donor system and kind of like it's, it's based on the past experiences that a lot of people have had in the continent when we don't have funding. and the lack of inability with that kind of system, it means that it's, it's not sustainable in its implementation, in this baseline. because you have to involve government and this money has to be involved in together in kind of like collectively in the level in how the money kind of comes through to the people. and at the same time, it can be implemented in one spot and you do incomplete message in another book because you all of us that is that creating class class structure. that's what i

mean. so in, in these are intended consequences in implementation of experiment. and that's why we should talk, experimenting and implementing programs, we should just implemented program because like i said, will of an over run with experiments. i think we're done with experimenting. why the hell? are we still experimenting? what are we experimenting tool? it's a perception issue at this point rather than i think. so as a society main obstacle is political now. josh, i think we have enough evidence from around the world, different types of countries. we can afford it because we can afford all sorts of schemes you, as we saw during the coated pandemic, when government suddenly were able to flushed, put money into companies, amend 0 interest rates and furloughs, schemes, billions of dollars and euro's was spent. then they suddenly that they had that money. it's not

a question of not being able to afford it. we have to be fiscally responsible, but it's affordable. i think we have to go back to why we want a basic inc. and the fundamental reasoning is ethical. it's festival a matter of common justice. the income and wealth of every single one of us, including all of us in this program, is far more to do with the efforts and achievements of all preceding generations than anything we do ourselves. but we don't know whose parents, grandparents and previous generations contributed more or less. so in a sense, you could see a basic income as the sort of common dividend on the collective wealth. now a very interested that the pope during cove it came out in favor of a basic income the 1st time the catholic church was come out,

family in favor and read. if you're religious, you can say that god gave us unequal talents, unequal skills, and in a sense of basic income is a compensation for those who don't have the talent of making a lot of money. but also, we realize that basic income gives people basic security. and basic security as the human need, as a public boat. and if you don't have basic security, your mental i q, those down, the psychologists have shown us that. so in a sense, giving people basic security is a way of saying you are a citizen. then you can behave, but if your chronic be insecure, it's unfair for us to expect somebody to behave in a way we might like them. they got to behave just to survive. and basic security

is fundamental. and finally, ethically, every politician i've ever heard speak says they're in favor of freedom, but you can't be free if you're chronically an insecure and impoverished and in debt. so can only be angry if you have access to the material resources so that you can make decisions. hey, i want to bring a quick video and margaret are running out of time in the show. and i want to ship this conversation maybe a little bit more forward looking. ah, her check this out. we'll discuss it after. ah,

i'm in the line with law. the other music in that that's massive attack. that's a video that they actually did with guy has gone over 3000000 years. it wasn't the video i wanted you to see that i wanted to bring in this video off a tick tock. check this out. what you were looking at is advanced farms most recent harvester, which can take up to 30 apples and one minute, which is amazing, but it's an incredible reminder of our 2055. over half of all the current jobs will be replaced by automation and over half of the global population will be unemployed with no real way to generate income help mean, which people used to say, leach was massive, creative renaissance, but now we have a i 2nd jerry artwork that sells for hundreds of thousands of dollars using papers and soon to be novels escripts to permit the economy from completely collapsing. governments are going to have to start heading out to you b. i to everyone that will be enough to cover all basic living needs. so okay, shipping the a i, he was saying half half the jaws by 2050. something are going to be taken away by automation or, or a i,

as we look at the changes that are coming in the future. eleanor, i see that, that, that struck a chord with you. what, what do you think about that? i mean, i just think it's so hilarious to bring the ai image generation into the conversation about ours because, you know, ours is so much more than, you know, selling an image that could hang up on someone sofa and one another. and eleanor an interrupt because we only have a few minutes. it's not about the image generation, it's about a i replacing lawyers and maybe some nurses and doctors like all the things that a i that the chat g p t can do better than he laws. ok. yeah, i think there's 2 levels in which you can look at the compositions of the i probably as brought there in the, on the conversation. but you be, i and the last couple of years. however, the 1st challenge of looking at which is using a i in deciding who get money or not, which is a super problematic situation because human beings and they were very dynamic and

there's something very different. and so using that technology and i think it's happening and it's already taken place. but at the same time, i think replacing or the changing jobs and determining whether this is the particular problem for us to fight and deal with poverty. it should not come to that place. oh my god, i've got a job because i've got less than a minute left. and sam or a guy, i don't have time to to go to you. i'm sorry. and i know guy wanted to get in a point about one of the things you b, i does is giving everyone money. people are much less likely to be exploited. if they have the money they need to live on. so it can be very empowering, and i wish we got to that point during the show. but now what an interesting topic . thank you for joining us. that's all the time we have for today. i want to thank my guess guy so cool and eleanor and for you, you can always find this is stream dot al jazeera dot com. thank you for watching.

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