ah, a meeting of minds when i was studying the cannon and the curriculum that we were taught was handed down from elsewhere. it was an inherited curriculum. that is the image of architecture in the west. architects, the mayor, valley and alexandria ravenna, that one there was noon or something that social housing can not provide, which is personal expression. fright studio b unscripted on al jazeera for a long time, it wielded huge influence service to down. for now, egypt is nervous. labor is embroiled in cold pyro inside with one of the bible parties, how much it was gonna take. and what are the possible implications. this is inside story. ah

and i welcome to the program. i'm nick clark. so to don is in turmoil with no end in sight to the fighting between the army and the power military rapid support forces neighboring nations already dealing with an influx of refugees, worried that the violence to will spread beyond its borders as an emergency meeting of the arab league, its representative, called for an immediate cease for highlighting the close ties his country has with sudan. but that relationship means that egypt to supporting one side over the other, a decision with far reaching implications will go to our guests in just a moment. but 1st, this report from ne, had a lady, a bubble wrap, that support forces says this video shows egyptian soldiers who surrendered at marrow air base in northern sudan. it was released just hours after the conflict broke out between the paramilitary group and sydney's army, mid april. the recess says the gyptian military intelligence officers were among

those retained. but cairo says the troops had been conducting join training exercises with this denise counterparts. some say the recess precedes egypt support for general hubbard hahn as a threat. egypt reported lease and jet fighters just before the fighting started and additional pilots. soon after to support albert han, he entered gyptian, president of the sutter health sissy, have grown closer in recent years. in terms of military corporation, red sea security and trade. since he has been working to improve ties with sedans, army since former president, all modeled by, she was removed from power in a coup in 2019. earlier this month, the 2 armies held naval drills at ports. ford on the red sea. both sides opposed the construction of its european mega dam on the nile river. egypt fears the ground

renaissance danville significantly reduce it, share the now's water and effective agriculture and electricity production. while at your p, i'm in teens, the dime is essential for it's a comic development sedans unfolding human carrying crisis is a concern for egypt. the journey from her to him is long, more than a 1000 kilometers by road and dangerous. people describe having to go through dozens of checkpoints, set up by fighters from both sides. and once they reach the border, the way to enter egypt sometimes last several days. the african union and the arab league have called for diplomatic solution, fearing the fighting may spread beyond sedans, borders, but to date, neither the army nor the rapid support for says, has committed to taking part in proposed p stocks. and he had l. a b, d for inside story or alice. now go to our guests. joining me from khartoum is that sudanese journalist mohammed alameda document in car in egypt. says sar, kiddo,

whose founder and director of the european north african center for such an over the united states in washington, d. c is humble and nanny is associate professor of political science at the doha institute for graduate studies. a will welcome to all of you at if i could start with you in call to mohammed at, because you're there, it's important for us to know how things are at with things ramping up again in the past 24 hours. how is security, how food supplies, how frightening is it? this aggression is as it is a 2 day event and a, a fight in different areas. or it's a,

a, a by that is, is to also should, in this, in place to a 3 a station and, and, and there. and then the phone on the houses of the city is because of that on a 2nd. i can also that a new factor off a seats and then even inside that i was in a place like over a month. so the situation is it's very risky for the people that the people yeah. use a few hours of the lack of a didn't sound as if there's any kind of peace coming any time soon. let me just ask you one more question before we get you on

the guess. is there a fair among the population in the capital that this could get worse than neighboring countries might become embroiled in this that this could spread across the region? yes, actually that the people who are going to see it sexually in a position but this a so that this, this for is because they're, you know, in the dimension and they are looking for suspicious of their own. so it in a new age. so they're leaving that 2 sites that 2 sites have been supported, that the sites, i mean i'm out of there, they got support from that. and so, and leg is standing behind. they believe that there are

a lot of science and indications that support in the army and i met one of 2000 people just for them is also support in the us. because other than the kitchens, especially, you know, there is to fight in, in the m and the kind of an investment and what i'm an interest. so those people that live in. so, and this is just a, these are the countries. ok, let's throw it across the car to her. and how is it perceived that, how serious is it that the external actors like egypt and like the u. e, are supporting opposing sides in the situation? well, to speak about the regional factors or the regional actors interested in sudan. that list, that goes on a list that never ends. of course, egypt has an interest in the stability and prosperity of sudan,

and i'll mention later why. but another, or of states have different interests. and so dan, and speaking of egypt being behind the army or not it's, it's, it's very important, especially in this time to elaborate that egypt is not taking science over one over the other. egypt has paid a visit last january 2023, a through general, our best cayman, who's the head of the intelligence of egypt to we're hon general will harm to urge him to take things farther and transition that power to civilians. because that's what sudanese people want, that's why that the restrictions went on and went on her back in the days. and the crisis of sudan takes a decade. it started a decade ago. and all along that last decade, each of those trying to mediate,

along with the job piece agreements, are cairo workshop and our lead initiative. so we've been trying, it's kind of egypt now. last. so dan, that's the point we can tackle now. because if we look, we have them, okay? as a my colleague mentioned that we have been supporting global hon. okay, but that's not to like transits the experiment or anything that's for the stability and prosperity of sudan because we see that cost us today. and let us a little bit more about point. look through that point, we'll come back to in a 2nd. sorry, but to throw that point across to toggle and on in your isn't that what you think about that? these are not taking sides one way or the other. over the last decade, egypt has been trying to, to mediate in the situations who don, what do you make of that? hello. i think this is unfortunately added to it since the beginning of the transition. 2019 adopted a deeply flowed short sighted policy and sudan,

driven by 2 contradictory objectives. the 1st one, as egypt among other regional allies, such as your east are gonna be in work hardly in order to prevent the establishment of a civilian, let alone democratic government in sudan over the last 40 years. on the other hand, you feared that then might turn into a fantasy that might have just started to get political and economic that you would really places that we see right now that an emotional and much about the same time . unfortunately, the main goal for it was to stablish a strong medical role, as is the case in an order or under the believe that this might be different than from sliding into our civil war or finding into accurate execution. unfortunately, this is like a destructive policy or a process that came to unfortunately if you see the behavior where the last 40

years and what had they supported the medical component within the transition and suffering counsel and the other hand, the supported also the good it was staging by and but i don't have it at that time . 2021. then the tried to so discord between civilian force, a dividend that was paid by our best camelot of january, was not in fact to support the fin, the framework agreement that was agreed on december 5th. but in order to create a better than a process that, that might create divisions a month civilians. that's why the main faction, the forces of freedom and change if see the main component, the central council rejected the prosperity of the european initiative and the other faction, the dom, credit look equity and joined the what's called kayla's workshop. so unfortunately, egypt made this crisis to happen along other allies. unfortunately, i know they'll pay the price a little over 3 months. i can come back units,

i can throw that back to sar before we go back to mohammed. so what's your reaction to that? it's very hard to blame any never in countries or even any other regional or super power actor in sudan when the 2 forces are fighting over resources and power. and when the 2 forces are increasing themselves, if egypt to supporting the national army of to them, because as a state, as egypt as it's forward, as a very important axis of its foreign policy, they will never deal with malicious. and this is very evident they will deal only with the national army, not to transmit any experiments, but that's like the official party who we can deal with egypt lever deal with bar military because that's not an it's concept of foreign policy. that's what i was trying to say, but mediation, i think so then i was very hard for one actor in the region to to me jason, this,

i don't think that even the arab league can come into it has to be the u. s. and e gaga and the a are we going to be able to really think we're going to come to mediation resolution a minute, ma'am? if i can come to you, what's your view from within su, dawn of egypt role in all of this, both products of the conflict and now yes, actually, you know, the and since, like, a 50 years ago has never did. so the policies of it. so you know, the members of this and he's have a lot of memories of the intervention and that it is also that actually we have this like in 197971 of the 1985 in other residents. so the members of the study,

they have a lot of impressions of how it is intervening and then what is it to them? so now did they did that to me, or is this with germany that they are actually not sharing a lot of interest. they got to been gotta been going to be the government. it's been a service. so we have a share in my investments level of investment, agriculture investments. so, and, you know, in these 2 countries, this has been used actually for are struggling between that in me and it's about whether it's civilians or other a student. so the to do a lot of interest in order to stay in power in order to struggle with is about to

start going and that's in the countries. and we know that these 2 sites were, i mean stuff, and i was there where i live together for a long time. again, is the civilians and do it in that time. there were a lot of things in the region have interest in, given the situation is with them in the hands of these 2 sites and know when that is when this company come in this conflict of interest. i was point did that, that a good plan also have to keep their interest on and in then we have a lot of in the insurance for example, we understand it, for example, have a military when you go in mother we are forced resistor. that is a military, but i stay for longer than

a year. the office of interested in murray is also sending a lot of questions of what is going on between the between the 2 sites. so, and we didn't hear a from, from linda's military about this, this is all these things, or this is given, the student is people, i mean, in the history and sisters of the 99 and up, you know, and after the beginning of this war, give the student is a lot of indications that there is something popping up there is something happen between these 2 countries. another questions that why it didn't clear that there is no more than a 100 in office or pilots that come in and let me jump in. sorry, let me throw that back to you. if you briefly could respond to that and then i'm going to move on to honey. so it, it, it's a lot of the accusations bear in a lot of, let's say, and i missed it. so of course,

i have all the respect to what the student needs to be 1111 school or no one wants for egypt. if we want something, me personally as a new direction citizen is the stability of sudan, stephanie, and not on the stability, stability and prosperity. why? because a negative consequence. now, the peoples are feeling actually our egypt didn't do anything until now. we only evacuated our people from sudan and other foreigners as well. no one has taken any step forward now, because sudan has slide it into 7 war and blaming neighboring countries and other actors. i don't think it's the right exit of the crisis. the right exit of the crisis is to push on to the integration of a real national army. that's to start with. now, sedan is fully into being categorized in international law as

a fe state. if there is no army controlling the borders, that's the importance of any army. if there is no army controlling the boarders and setting peace in even in its own places, there would be no. so there and then ok to pull it on to that to jump in the ground to cover with 10 minutes left. so we need to keep on so brief if you would hello, if you can respond to the other and also just just down to the, the number of this conversation and the potential for this to spiral outside of sued on what your sense is about that. i think it's very likely to happen. so then as lighting in tough in the state that there is no strong government in control, which means that this might affect other countries. we already have other conflicts and come to like a chad libya, central africa. so that are very likely to happen if there is no agreement in the

future of course of the future. so you might witness another 50 state that would have spent over the entire area. so then has at least 7 countries and it's neighbors or 8, at least that have also some sort of conflicts from southern sudan or south sudan too. if you go to central avenue chat. but let me just respond very quickly to some of the claims they have. you know, i just listen to the right now. i mean, 1st of all, we need to break this down into some point. the 1st one to be, they're listed here, most conflicts. now, with the agent have multi layers and different lives and terminal, regional, and international. all actors are playing very for, from their perspective, this is very legitimate to have a role in these countries, but to speak. and to say that it doesn't need was militia, this is again, is the reality actually a breath and sissy himself. mit was hemi t 3 years ago in march 2020. at the same time, it's supporting another militia or militia. in libya, they are supporting actually

a water criminal. i would like like half that in easter libya. also, if you look at the jefferson behavior or the last, again, 40 years from a different perspective from at least egypt perspective is a very legitimate, an order to i. first of all, the but event at the government. this is for it c c, a very interesting effect that might have an impact in egypt that, which is a very, that's a 3rd, as we know. second, but i mean by many reports. and i think in the beginning of this episode that was mentioned that egypt sent at least 12 fighting jets to algebra, han the last 4 or you know, 3 weeks right now. also they said pilots there. so they are very involved in this. and there's conflict and now come and say that that is not role and to speak of mediation with you. sure. doesn't mean to take part in that unfortunate that it said in the beginning, there's a very contradictory set of just after follows. but let,

what about what we're seeing right now is with n r a. so the factors that the region is, is, is we've been talking and discussing her that the region is immersed intentions. and this will be a very, very big problem. and not just for sudan, but for egypt as well, if this spirals out of control and at the moment egypt are stable, but it's economically in deep trouble. it's going to cause a huge amount of difficulties for egypt, isn't it? yes, of course. well, if we talk about the threats that this crisis might cause to egypt, they are a lot. we have. our border is open, of course, for our brothers and sisters from sudan. but especially in this time we're, we're facing very hard economic crisis and it's felt by the people. okay, so when we receive more people enter the country that calls us at more demand. and

of course more prices up. and that's abc economic economy. and that's what we're going to face now. so the 1st country that will bear all the negative consequence of whatever crisis is going in the south, is egypt for sharing the borders and plus that we are economically unstable. now, plus later to be mentioned as well. i'm sure you have a question about that if you, yes. of course on egypt is very, very alarm from that as calling mentioned as well. we would be yes. interested in a government that goes as an ally to egypt here of course, specks others who wouldn't say that what country would would wouldn't want and frankly neighboring country. ok. so a who's sudan is one alarm, one big alarm to egypt. the borders is another alarm. and economic status is a 3rd alarm, as well as the exit from the rate c. so j politically speaking,

economically speaking, and from a security perspective, egypt is very along, right, hello. sorry, this mentioned the relationship, the relationship with ethiopia. and then of course, tensions in the all region over the ground, renaissance diamond, ethiopia, what does a di stabilize? su, dawn, do to egypt, negotiating position, and indeed, sedans, negotiating position with ethiopia. i think it will have a huge impact on egypt to position comes to the get a big and if you'll be sounds down because it was counting on having a strong government this then that might side with it that might accept to have the option perspective on that but unfortunately with the kind of situation in sudan, it's very difficult to count. and so then at the same time, i mean from a very, the perspective for it to have that government, they think that government led by hand might be a friendly and can support

a position with comes to this. but now as we see right now, there's conflict. conflict is taking place. it's very difficult for you to push forward and not have to bring a binding agreement with if you'd be in that regard. so i think it is a mean it was of the current conflict. unfortunately, if i said before contributed to this and it's like shooting, unfortunately, as far as trying to say that a prolong conflict would throw both sued on and egypt, a water and food security into uncertainty with yes, of course. food and water security is one of the 1st alarms to egypt in the sudan crisis. are reading some foresight or reports in egypt, out of thing tanks and so on. he says that it goes to the extent that egypt is care and then they would sell us the water later on. because we believe that there in

the upcoming war will be on water resources. and we don't want that. and africa and egypt will be left alone in that fine. if sudan is, is, is incorporated somehow with the point of view of if you hear that would be egypt to standing alone for it's fight on water resources. and there are 9 river covers only in well, that's a huge amount at 93 percent of our needs. but still we're going into water poverty . or we already entered water poverty in 2017 and with the all the prices. and we have a problem with the food security because of the russian aggression on ukraine. so again, this is like a, another crisis that we did any of the, i'm going to stop with her because we have literally down to our last minute. and i just want to end on her liam hallel at the simple question, which it isn't a jewel. where is resolution coming from?

i think this is a very difficult question. this is $1000000.00 question deck, but i think with that with having some sort of consensus among internal as well as the regular players. it's very difficult to speak about a solution for this crisis. this crisis has been in the macon for the last 40 years old. you know, the parties have contributed to this, and this isn't the dilemma. those part of that, and that, that should, that is all this are part of the problem. so the question as to what extent these parties, it isn't an international and look at my gift concessions in order to and this kind of company that would affect the entire region. all right, we'll leave it there. thank you. in the to, i guess, man and alman admit and sorry, karen and helene and i me and thank you to you for watching. you can see the program again at any time by just visiting our website, amazon dot com. and for further discussion day to our facebook page, that is facebook dot com, forward slash ha, inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at ha,

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detailed coverage. people have come here to demonstrate against the rowing for the finance in the demonstration from around the world. and even when doctors here are able to make an early diagnosis and guarantee the transportation of the sick, they still faith. another challenge. talk to al jazeera, we ask, who is really fighting? is russia isn't wagner, or is it the russian or military? we listen, we started talking to me on my own so that this via yours, it is an issue to get him back. we meet with global news makers. i'm talk about the stories that matters on al jazeera, assassination of discipline, destabilizing the democratic process. if we lose it, it will be a loss for all the documentary explores how autocratic leaders undermine democracy to consolidate their power through the eyes of those who dare to stand and defy it

. our country deserves so much better than being ruled by a cleft aquatic dictatorship. opposing autocracy, democracy maybe on al jazeera. i care about how the us engaging with the rest of the world. we're really it didn't take you into a play. you might not visit otherwise and feel as if you were there. ah ah. hello and the whole rahman, you're watching the al jazeera news, our lives my headquarters here in doha, coming up in the next 60 minutes, ah, troops on the streets and cartoon as 1st grow, that fighting will intensify between the army and the powerful paramilitary force. am i all the same of 13 years?

i knew him devastated and desperate thousands continue to escape the violence a one of the biggest evacuation operations in recent.