you days, ah, lebanese tells me businessman, with the large gold mining operation in mexico for with leave to succeed unique doors and the egypt economists toby can talk at funds of to the open leaders. president clinton celebrate them. my work in the white house. he paid me much more than i actually deserve. i'm just you, the world needs to me for fun success. after leaving the middle east, i'd abroad the money on al jazeera for a long time. it will be a huge influence service to don. now egypt and nervous neighbors embroiled in conflict. tiro is citing with one of the bible parties. how much would gamble taken and what are the possible implications? this is as i story. ah

and i welcome to the program, i'm nick clark. so to darn is in turmoil with no end in sight to the fighting between the army and the power military rapid support forces. neighboring nations already dealing with an influx of refugees, worried that the violence to will spread beyond its borders. at an emergency meeting of the arab league, its representative called for an immediate cease for highlighting the close ties his country has with sudan. but that relationship means that egypt to supporting one side over the other, a decision with far reaching implications will go to our guests in just a moment. but 1st, this report from ne, had a lady a there, rapid support forces says this video shows egyptian soldiers who surrendered at marrow air base in northern sit on it was released just hours after the conflict

broke out between the paramilitary group and sydney's army, mid april the r s f says egyptian military intelligence officers were among those detained. bet kyra says the troops had been conducting joint training exercises with tessa denise counterparts. some say the recess precedes egypt support for general. had hon as a threat. egypt reportedly sent jet fighters just before the fighting started and additional pilots. soon after to support edward han, he entered gyptian, president of the fat halsey she had grown closer in recent years in terms of military cooperation, red sea security and trade. since she has been working to improve ties with sedans, army since former president alma, but she was removed from power in a coup in 2019. earlier this month, the 2 armies held naval drills, exports to dawn on the red sea. both sides oppose the construction of its your p.

make a dam on the now river. egypt fears the ground renaissance danville significantly reduce it. share of the now water and effective agriculture and electricity production. while at your p, i'm in teens. the dime is essential for it's a konami development sedans unfolding him and carrying crisis is a concern for egypt. the journey from her to me is long more than a 1000 kilometers by road and dangerous people describe having to go through dozens of checkpoints, settled by fighters from both sides. and once they reached the border, the way to enter egypt sometimes last several days. the african union and the arab league have called toward diplomatic solution, fearing the fighting may spread beyond saddam's borders. but to date neither the army nor the rapid support for says has committed to taking part in proposed p stocks. and he had l, a, b, d for inside story. or i las now go to our guests join me from out to me is

a student is jealous mohammed. i mean, in kara, in egypt is sorry, a kid who's founder and director of the european north african center for research . and over the united states in washington, d. c is holly and nannie is associate professor of political science, the doha institute for graduate studies. a will welcome to all of you at if i could start with you and called to mohammed. because you are very, it's important for us to know how things are with things ramping up again in the past 24 hours. how is security, how food supplies, how frightening is it a 2 day event and a, a fight in different areas. or

it's a, a, a, a social in place to a situation and, and, and there. and then the phone on the house of the students because of that on a 2nd. i can also that a new factor off a seats. and then even inside that i was in a place like over a month. so the situation is it's very risky for the people at the people. yeah. use a few of the fuel. a

didn't sound as if there's any kind of peace coming anytime soon. let me just ask you one more question before we get, you know, the guess is there a fair among the population in the capital that this could get worse than neighboring countries might become embroiled in this, that this could spread across the region? yes, actually that the people who are going to see it sexually in a position but this a so that this, this for is because they're, you know, in the dimension and they are looking for suspicious to their own. so it in a new age. so they're leaving that 2 sites that 2 sites have been supported, that the sites, i mean i'm out of there, they got support from that. and so,

and leg is standing behind. they believe that there are a lot of science and indications that support in the army and i met one of 2000 people just to them is also support in the us. because other than the kitchens, especially, you know, there is to fight in, in the m and that kind of an investment and put on the interest. so those people that live in. so, and this is just a, these are the countries. ok, let's throw it across the car to and how is it perceived that, how serious is it that the external actors like egypt and like the u. e, are supporting opposing sides in the situation? well, to speak about the regional factors or the regional actors interested in sudan,

that list, that goes on a list that never and of course, egypt has an interest in the stability and prosperity of sudan. and i'll mention later why. but another or of states have different interests. and so dan, and speaking of egypt being behind the army or not it's, it's, it's very important, especially this time to elaborate that egypt is not taking science of one over the other. egypt has paid a visit last january 2023, a through general, our best came and who's the head of the intelligence of egypt to bore hon general will harm to urge him to take things farther and transition the power to civilians. because that's what sudanese people want, that's why that the nutritionist went on and went on a back in the days. and the crisis of sudan takes a decade. it started

a decade ago. and all along that last decade, egypt was trying to mediate, along with the job piece agreements are k row workshop and arab league initiative. so was been trying, it's kind of egypt now last. so dan, that's the point we can tackle now. because if we look, we have they, okay, as a my colleague mentioned that we have been supporting global hon. okay, but that's not to like transits the experiment or anything that's for the stability and prosperity of sudan because we see the consequences today. and let us a little more of a point lead through about point we'll come back to the seconds are but the throw that point across the title. and i'm curious, know what you think brought back. these are not taking sides one way or the other. over the last decade, egypt has been trying to, to mediate the situations who don, what do you make of that, hulu? i think this is unfortunately under to you, since the beginning of the transition,

clinton adopted a deeply flowed short sighted policy and sudan driven by 2 contradictory objectives . the 1st one is egypt among other regional allies, such as your aesop did a b l work at heart body in order to prevent the establishment of a civilian, let alone democratic government in sudan over the last 40 years. on the other hand, you feared that then might turn into a fantasy that might have just started to get political and economic and even 3 places as we see right now, that unimaginable and much about the same time. unfortunately, the main goal for you cause to stablish a strong medical role as is the case in egypt and all of them are under the believe that this might but event from sliding into a civil war or finding into accurate execution. unfortunately, this was like a destructive policy or

a process that came to unfortunately if we see the options of behavior where the last 40 years ad on what had they supported the medical component within the transition and suffering counsel. and the other hand, the support at all to the core that was stage by ad, but i don't have it at that time. 2021. then the try to so discord between civilian force, a dividend that was paid by our best camelot of january, was not in fact to support the fin, the framework agreement that was agreed on december 5th. but in order to create a pattern or process that, that might create divisions among civilians. that's why the main faction, the forces of freedom and change if see the main component of the accounts and rejected the prosperity of the japan initiative, the other faction, the democratic look equity and joined the what's called the kayla's workshop. so unfortunately, egypt made this crisis to happen along other allies. unfortunately,

i know they'll pay the price. hello, game of thrones. like to come back to this, i can throw that back to sar before we go back to mohammed. so what's your reaction to that? it's very hard to blame any never in countries or even any other regional or super power actor in sudan when the 2 forces are fighting over resources and power. and when the 2 forces are increasing themselves, if egypt to supporting the national army of to them, because as a state, as egypt as it's forward, as a very important axis of its foreign policy, they will never deal with malicious. and this is very evident they will deal only with the national army, not to transmit any experiments, but that's like the official party who we can deal with egypt lever deal with bar military because that's not an it's concept of foreign policy. that's what i was trying to say, but mediation,

i think so then i was very hard for one actor in the region to to me jason, this, i don't think that even the arab league can come into it has to be the u. s. and e gaga and the a you're going to be able to really think we're going to come to onto mediation resolution a minute, ma'am, if i can come to you, what's your view from within su, dawn of egypt role in all of this, both products of the conflict and now yes, actually, you know, the and since, like a 50 years ago has never did. so the policies of it. so you know, the members of this and he's have a lot of memories of the intervention and that it is also that actually we have this like in 197971

of the 1985 in other residents. so the members of the studies, they have a lot of impressions of how it is intervening and the what it takes us to them. so now did they, did they did that to me? or is this with germany that they are actually a lot of interest. they got to been gotta be in the going to be the government to pull it. it's about been there, did it, you know, into this. so we have a share in my investments level of investment, agriculture investments. so, and, you know, in these 2 countries, this has been used actually for our struggling between that it, me and it's as a rival, whether it's civilians or other a student. so the to do

a lot of interest in order to stay in power in order to struggle with is about to start going and that's in the countries. and we know that these 2 sites were, i mean stuff, and i was there where i live together for a long time. again, is the civilians and do it in that time. there were a lot of things in the region have interest in, given the situation is with them in the hands of these 2 sites and know when that is, when this conflict come in and when the conflict of interest i was point the i did that the lamps also have to keep their interest on. and in then we have a lot of indications. for example, we understand it. for example, we have a military when we were in mother we air force was us. there is a military,

but i stay for longer than a year of the office of interest in mother. we is also sending a lot of questions of what is going on between the, between the 2 sites. so, and we didn't hear a from, from linda's military about this. this is all these things, or this is given, the student is people. i mean, in the history and since 2009 and up, you know, and after the beginning of this, or give the student is a lot of indications that there is something popping up there is something happen between these 2 countries. and another question, why is it clear that there is no more than a 100 in office or pilots that come in and let me jump in, sorry, let me throw that back to you. if you briefly could respond to that and then i'm going to move on to honey. so it, it, it's a lot of the accusations bear in

a lot of, let's say, and i missed it. so of course, i have all the respect to what the student needs to be 1111 school or no one wants for egypt. if we want something, me personally, or is there any direction that isn't? is the stability of sudan, stability or not on the stability, stability and prosperity? why? because a negative consequence. now, the peoples are feeling actually our egypt didn't do anything until now. we only evacuated our people from sudan and other foreigners as well. no one has taken any step forward now, because sudan has slide it into southern war and blaming neighboring countries and other actors. i don't think it's the right exit of the crisis. the right exit of the crisis is to push on to the integration of

a real national army. that's to start with. now, sedan is fully into being categorized in international law as a fe state. if there is no army controlling the borders, that's the importance of any army. if there is no army controlling the boarders and setting peace in even in its own places, there would be no. so dad and then ok, the police are going to that the jumping the ground to cover with 10 minutes left. so we need to keep on so brief if you would hello, if you can respond to the other and also just just down to the, the knob of this conversation and the potential for this to spiral outside of sued on what your sense is about that. i think it's very likely to happen. so then as lighting in tough in the state that there is no strong government in control, which means that this might affect other countries. we already have other conflicts

and come to like a chad libya, central africa. so that are very likely to happen if there is no agreement in the future for simply a future. so we are, might witness another for the state that would have spent over the entire area. so then has at least 7 countries and it's neighbors or 8, at least that have also some sort of conflict from southern sudan or south sudan to if you are to central avenue chat. but let me just respond very quickly to some of the claims they have. you know, i just listen to the right now. i mean, 1st of all, we need to break this down into some point. the 1st one to be, they're listed here, most conflicts. now, with the agent have multi layers and different levels, internal, regional, and international. all actors are paying via from their perspective. this is very legitimate to have a role in these countries, but to speak. and to say that it doesn't, b was militia, this is again, is the reality actually, a written 60 himself. mit was hemi

t 3 years ago in march 2020. at the same time supporting another militia or militia . in libya, they are supporting actually a water criminal. i would like like half that in eastern olivia. also if you look at the junction behavior with the last, again, 40 years from a different perspective from at please. egypt says perspective, this is very legitimate, an order to i 1st of all the but event at the government. this is for egypt, c c, a very interesting to the fact that might have an impact in egypt that which is a very, that's a alley through here. as we know, 2nd, but i mean by minute reports. and i think in the beginning of this episode that was mentioned that egypt since at least 12 fighting jets to algebra han over the last 4 or you know, 3 weeks right now. also they said pilots there, so they are very involved with this and there's conflict and i'll come and say that that is no role and to speak of mediation with you. she doesn't mean to take part

in that unfortunate that is that in the beginning this is a vacant predicted. he said defective fullness. but let, what about what we're seeing right now is with n, o, sorry, the fact is in the region is this is we've been talking and discussing here that the region is immersed intentions and miss will be a very, very big problem. not just for sudan, but for egypt as well, if this spirals out of control and at the moment, egypt to stable, but it's economically in deep trouble. it's going to cause a huge amount of difficulties for egypt, isn't it? yes, of course. well, if we talk about the threats that this crisis might cause to egypt, they are a lot. we have. our border is open, of course, for our brothers and sisters from sudan, but especially this time where we are facing very hard economic crisis. and it's felt by the people. ok, so when we receive more people into the country that causes more demand. and of

course more prices up. and that's abc economy economy, and that's what we're going to face now. so the 1st country that will bear all the negative consequence of whatever crisis is going in the south, is egypt for sharing the borders and plus that we are economically unstable now, plus later to be mentioned as well. i'm sure you have a question about that. if you, yes, of course on egypt is very, very alarm from that as calling mentioned as well. we would be yes. interested in a government that goes as an ally to egypt here of course bexla that who wouldn't say that what country would would wouldn't want. and frankly neighboring country. ok, so a who's sudan is one alarm, one big alarm to egypt. the borders is another alarm and the economic status is

a 3rd alarm, as well as the exit from the rate c. so j politically speaking, economically speaking, and from a security perspective, egypt is very alarm. right, julio? sorry, just mentioned the relationship, the relationship with ethiopia, and then of course, tensions in the all region over the ground renaissance. i'm in the future. what does it does stabilize su dawn, due to egypt. negotiating position. i mean, did sedans negotiating position with ethiopia? i think it will have a huge impact on you. get to position comes to the get a big and if you'll be sounds down because it was counting on having a strong government this then that might side with it that might accept to have the option perspective on that. but unfortunately with the kind of situation in sudan, it's very difficult to count. and so then at the same time, i mean from a very,

the perspective for it to have that government, they think that government led by hand might be a friendly and can support a position with comes to this. but now as we see right now, there's conflict. conflict is taking place. it's very difficult for you to push forward and not have to bring a binding agreement with if you bet on that regard. so i think it is a mean it was of the current conflict. unfortunately, if i said before contributed to this and it's like shooting, unfortunately, as far as trying to say that a prolong conflict would throw both sued on and egypt, a water and food security into uncertainty with yes, of course. food and water security is one of the 1st alarms to egypt in the sudan crisis. are reading some foresight or reports in egypt, out of thing tanks and so on. he says that it goes to the extent that egypt is care

and then they would sell us the water later on. because we believe that there in the upcoming war will be on water resources. and we don't want that. and africa and egypt would be left alone in that fine. if sudan is, is, is incorporated somehow with the point of view of if you peer, that would be egypt to standing alone for it's fight on water resources. and there are 9 river covers only in well, that's a huge amount at 93 percent of our needs. but still we're going into water poverty . or we already entered water poverty in 2017 and with the all the prices. and we have a problem with the food security because of the russian aggression on ukraine. so again, this is like a, another crisis that we did any of the, i'm going to stop with her because we have literally down to our last minute. and i just want to end on her liam hallel at the simple question,

which it is in the draw where is resolution coming from? i think this is a very difficult question. this is $1000000.00 portion deck, but i think with that with having some sort of consensus among internal as well as the regular players. it's very difficult to speak about a solution for this crisis. this crisis has been in the making over the last 40 years old. you know, the parties have contributed to this, and this isn't that i remember those parts of that and that, that, that should, that is all this are part of the problem. so the question as to what the cost in these parties, it is in a international and look at my gift concessions in order to and this kind of conflict that would affect the entire region. all right, we'll leave it there. thank you. in the to, i guess my mind to element ultimate as are at kira and helene. and i, me and thank you too for watching. you can see the program again at any time by just visiting our website, amazon dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter.

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claim control of major facilities. but so far it's been hard to confirm who has the upper hand with detailed coverage. people have come here to demonstrate against roving police violence in the demonstration from around the world. and even when doctors here are able to make an early diagnosis and guarantee the transportation of the sick, they still faith another challenge. ah, i moline side of your top stories on al jazeera, see don's army and the paramilitary rapid support forces have agreed to a 3 day extension on a shaky. despite the truce fighting has continued in and around the capital call team on sunday. have a morgan has moved from the capital while people here in the capital,

hard to him have not reacted much to this new announcement overseas fired both by the rapids.