a truce in time to 22 degrees. no significant re news full costs for either, but on the or wrong day or the big sheriff, i'm far away in the congress. and so the rest possibly, inc, i'm going to the science. so this as an increase in the light is charles in a good part of south africa, but it's still hot. the reviewing the headlines, dissecting what they say, which has decided to go live was the really a full scale innovation, exposing how the media is used to shape the ones that never seems to make a difference is it's on true. it never happens until political power can suppress free speech. you tried to record that need to be in public. the police must have 2nd. we are on the cost of surveillance. the listening post you guy to the media on tuesday, around the nation, assess what i've counted. style has the worst humanitarian crisis in the world tell

about edict fanning women from working is in doing the delivery of international phase as we you and discusses the future of its mission. what's next for off campus? this is inside story, the . busy welcome to the program. i'm adrian, 2nd decades of war since the 1970s have left off chemist on in a di she, monetary and crisis around 97 percent of its people live in. pull the tape, well, 28000000 need a just to survive this year. since it returned to pa, in august 2021, the tyler bond has introduced a series of cubs on women's freedoms, including a band on women working. the united nation says the bats unacceptable. because it threatens the work of agencies senior un officials have been meeting this week in

doha campbell without the tele bond to decide on the future. the mission will be discussing the implications of all of this for the after and people with, i guess. but 1st, i sort of ahead of the telephone political office in doha. so hey, we'll shaheen who's up here in the how good to have you with us. the talking about, as we said, wasn't invited to those tools in doha. what's your view on that? uh yes sir, that, uh you have to have meetings about double i decided to know the issues. you know, i, by this time the humanitarian crisis, the need for a human, a ted in need. and also do we left min project to this a good? think back to you, you see there was no delegation in participation from the is that many committed up up? fine is fun. i think it was a for all because if they do not listen to us,

i do not listen to a lot and go out for you to identify the issue. what the, the issues that the people of up line is done are facing. how they can resolve issues. so that was the one sided lee and his and no, no the issue can be dissolved one side or the 2nd so, but, but, but yeah. what about, what about the tell about i'm listening to what do you in, in the international community say as we sit in the introduction of the cub on women's freedoms. the ban on the working is all acceptable according to the you in a box. why international donors i'm not keen to, to, to fund the you. and so you want to, terry, and that's, that's uh uh, we have the, uh, a new website that we denied. uh, women access it through dictation, but we say it should be in the light of our wall news, ambrose. so the, you know,

uh the people i bought by this time they struggled folder dearly, but ation for 20 years. so they want to result all on issues with the education in other issues, according to what was used in laws and that followed by the business, the city that the 2 sides that you and in other uh who wanted to uh to, to, to resolve the issue to set uh with us with the uh, what do i need to ship uh, without belittle delegation and the price identified the issue. and then we'll household is all of them a bite to adult, our participation in our a delineation. they are deciding one sided lee and it wasn't but not the identified, the ground barely teach, which are pretty well into that i, by this time i think good, that is the offer off. is there any appetite for compromise? so placed on, on, on your side of this, this disagreement, but we will,

we want to resolve all issue. so what, what our problems, according to, to our laws and i wonder why it was, we didn't say we did not trans. our reading. one point is all of them, but a, something of what they want, maybe the different in subculture, of the wall use. it is obviously the we want to and put is all, all issues and pro dictation in the like up all and while use i mean it on we, we have inside the new outside but we do not will want to to, it is all done. i don't read your nice utah set about your values and customs the before the sound of on came back to power 2 years ago. it made certain assurances which it as post utah and upon is there any debate within the telephone itself, but that it needs to change it stance on, on certain issues in order to prevent the people of afghanistan stopping. so this, the issue should not be politicized. the people are suffering because of the

sanctions and humanitarian believe how many times a day should be supported the from uh, from other issues. and they should not be used as a tactic pressure. i guess the people you see, the sanctions a may, you know, have made the people of upfront is done to suffer. and i want to say what another find that at the beginning, the secondary school, what opened the united states. what opened, it wasn't at that time the, the, the sanction were imposed on our bodies done. and that was the time it wasn't the, the, the, the women were working for the end. you who was part of the united nation. why at the time the sanction was impose and stay on the continuing. right, so that, but that's not the situation now. we've been unable to work in the country the you and says the bank, for instance, the work of, of agencies across the country. the fact that the teenage girls can't go to school

and the certain circumstances 8 is delivered, a distributed for school children who to take that, that home back to hungary, families. i want us to kind of, i'm doing to feed its people far as i see it here between the well, those with the, the mentioning there was nothing you know, how did a lot that and, and one, no, no, the, the, the, the, the importing, the, the woman who knew are in need of the need for the they not to mention kind of deliver them, it wouldn't mean couldn't deliver them. and when the we have uh, in the end, really just they can do the work to any we really do is we have about a full 2000 weed or it just started in the ministry off of monitors and disabled they are delivering the, the aides and the payment every month to act with them. so that is not a 100 bill spends about the war thing in,

in jewels in the united nation, you cation, the, so i will, we are working all the issue, including these, to be as old, according to our law, is because, uh, the, the people above one is done what that because the people this type i look forward to that and they want to add that to the problem shouldn't be as ordered. but according to our lawyers, pub that we need to set the with any aside, including the united nation, they know our position, we will know their position and proceed how food is all the issues. all right, good structure. so that infection dates for being with us on the inside story. so i have shaheen. that who is the kind of bonds international spokesman when it's bringing out. guess for today's discussion for a combo with joined by a familiar face. james bay's eldest areas, diplomatic editor who was following those un meetings in doha cobble this week. and his report extensively off kind of stone. somebody is from toronto means actually

if an after and rights activist who founded sisters for sisters, a mentorship program for women and girls in marginalized communities, mean also developed voice of africa. i'm use a t v and radio series and from new york. oh, by the by hip electra and transitional justice at the american university of afghanistan and the founder of the saved afghans from hunger. come pay and welcome to you will james. let's start with you. you heard what kind of bond spokes person said the what happened at the the conference this week. does anyone have any leverage over the call about a well, it's a real problem. and i think 1st let's explain what the conference was and it was criticized by lots of people because the main issue that they were trying to deal with was and talked about this relationship to the women of afghanistan. and then when no african women invite you to know when a ton of on invited that the was not the purpose, according to the website. because the general who i spoke to a boss is he said,

what i wanted to do with my conference this time was get the international community all on the same page. because if you have unity of the international community, then perhaps you have some left for a leverage with the toddler, but it doesn't hold many coughs. they did get a un security council resolution through last week condemning the top to bottom and the policies towards women. and it'd been hard to get unity on the un security council at this meeting. what came out of it? well, not a great deal in the sense that the main achievement seems to be an agreement to go . yeah, so now that meeting of the same people of members of the international community of neighboring countries, of regional paolo's, of the big international powers, the, the, a 5 permanent members of the security council i'm hope is i was told by one senior you and stores when you have other meetings taking place, you got one about to start with the pockets done for them. minnesota and the chinese foreign minister meeting the telephone. foreign minister,

the hope from senior un sources is that when the chinese and focused on these meet with the taliban, for example, they now know the script from the international community, the parameters for the international community. and in terms of influence of a, china impacts down the people to a best place to, to, to, to exemptions over the telephone as well. there are many people who do have a lot of influence on the top of them. i think pockets dawn when the town of on 1st to a pallet felt it would have more influence than it does. and in fact, in many ways the situation has bank fraud for buck is done with regard to the pockets on top of that. and the fact that they seem to effectively have a safe haven now in afghanistan to do some of their operations and organize actions . but yes, pockets, dawn still is a country with more influence than quite a few others on china. certainly is interested in playing a role here,

which is interesting because it's part i think of china trying and more assertive role on the diplomatic stage worldwide. you. so what happened with saudi arabia in the rom, that reproachful, broke good by china. and in fact, i don't need the other week, the chinese a boxes that you and secondly wanted to get involved in, in negotiation between israel and palestine. so yes, chinese china unimportant international panel ministries. what's your view of the u . n's position is handling of, of the crisis in afghanistan. is it, is it was taking the place of the african people, i mean, how kind of the whole talks on afghanistan without including crowns in those talks . right. so um, i'm actually confused about where the one is coming from. are they comfortably compromising their own values and standards that are outlined in their mandate and in the soft approach that they have taken with the taliban today? or are they confused about the situation and they've got a sense to begin with?

so either way, part of that beginning towards a solution in that is including ident voices and the conversations. i mean it's, it's quite absurd that meetings are held about a century without members of that country president. and i think if you were to replace the, the name of the dentist and any other country, this would be laughable. but for whatever reason, this cycle is allowed to get to new york and the, when an international community is not holding their position on get a sense of the same standard, they would hold anywhere else. and of course, that is frustrating the can community. um, also even just this fixation on school is, is dangerous because they're doing so much more than that and it's washed over and it's, uh, it's dismissed because we're able to almost give them leeway by keeping the subjects so limited when it gets we're brought to the table, so much more would be brought to life all go against the mandates of accessible

acceptability goes back to the un and the international community. over the, the number of this, of course, is, is, is the world's desire to help the people of afghanistan without further empowering the telephone can not be done. it's a tricky situation. obviously, it's not something the international community is very used to. i mean the meetings, purpose initially we also have to understand that um, engagement helps you engage with your enemies because you want to figure out how to move forward. it doesn't necessarily mean you are endorsing them. so those are very different things. we have to understand that the finally economies in a very fragile state and not dep, on people do not have the option of opting out of the region that is moving the country today. however, i think that um, expecting uh, the un to include all parties of that conversation,

which is specifically meant for the special ed invoice for them to have a cohesive approach to works upon a song unity off expectation is a very important part of any dialogue within the opposite side, the fact that the tiny bunch it'd be sitting with in their group and talking to each other international law plans have to sit amongst themselves and have some unity off approach. so that's important. so i guess it's totally up upon defined as well to expect to be included in a meeting that is being held because of them. not for them. um, but uh, i guess it has been um, a major failure on the un sparks to clarify the misinformation campaign around how their aid is making it to the hands of the upon the bond. and that should have been clarified much earlier and that has an impact on the amount of pledges that come to a plan is done also on how he does seem and as to whether a can be disbursed to

a funds without empowering the pottery barn and enabling their by behavior james, those those are you an accept the criticism that's been level that hits this rate from not inviting the telephone to these told somebody it is stuck between a walk and a hot place, isn't it? it has to balance. it's humanitarian obligations with the political objectives of many of it's the nations. oh yeah. i mean, i'm not here to defend the us. and of course my, my job, i spent quite a lot of my time asking tough questions to the you and, but what the you, i would say is that they do engage with the type of item. they have a whole mission here in cobble. they have a special representative rosa autumn by at the who is full president of the biggest on she speaks to the top to bottom. the deputy secretary general was here earlier in the year of speaking to this out about and i think the you and feeling on that is they went to the way, sending the number 2 in the organization. i mean,

and mohammad who was also a female, most of them to afghanistan and they got absolutely nothing from the top of an invite to the fact the child about and just hard and that position. so i think the un will say they have been engaging with the town of i'm, but as you say, it's very hard for the un because that, you know, there are, there are 2 roads they could take. and neither of them up with a ones that they really want to take this division in within the u. n. circles as division between the political side of the un. um the humanitarian side. now the humanitarians to say, yes, it's all full that the women come. what, but we must not stop the delivery of humanitarian aid. the figures are quite stunning. 97 percent of africans living in poverty and the un really struggling with the money is only got 6 percent of the funding, but it needs this. yeah. so really serious situation, the 2nd general says it's the west humanitarian situation anyway on of the

political side of, of the un. um, they are saying something slightly different to the humanitarian side. this, like if we get in on this issue of female un, well, cuz then we never going to get women back in a normal place in society, enough kind of style and it's a very, very difficult decision. but you end up being struggling with it. lots and lots of meetings in the end. i'm afraid i think we're going to the typical un fudge. to me know that james mentioned that the u. n. a deputy secretary general, what do you make of that? the widely criticize talk of a baby steps being made towards recognition of the tell about it. is it only a matter of time? just think before that happens. well, i think this is really reminiscent of 2014, when brock obama announced that that is national courses would be leading again to send and it creates that sense of panic. a loss of leverage that the women,

for example, are protesting on the streets hat, and rightfully so, all also leads to it should again, voices have been included in, in these meetings we might feel differently, but because the cycle is repeating 2 completely disabled civil society, women's voices, anyone was actually affected by what the taliban decrees in blue link. it does to everyday life. none of those voices are, can, are included in. so the cycle looks like it's continuing. and so we have every right to believe that it's a repeat to what extent as the you and made made the people of afghanistan dependent point 8 i'm, i've done talking about historically now as its been well meeting intention created the problem, but it's now trying to to suck, invent today as well. we talked about 8, i think, as a collective or under the impression that it is. it's an active generosity. i mean,

the united nations, for example, is a business. they have big salary. they have political pull and i don't know how we can call it in neutral organization or even let ourselves think it's neutral with those 2 with those 2 points in mind. it, when a distribution happens from a business like the united nation, are they for example, of purchasing locally to, to work towards a more sustainable economy within the country? no, they're not. they flying their own stuff. they find their own goods. and so as far as it be a solution driven program, i have not seen it to be so, so it ultimately, if we look at logic is a dependency is, is in there, it's in their interest as a, as an existing organization. so no, i don't think they've been a solution in the past, but i do think unfortunately, we are in a position worse than we were uh before the international presence and get us and when it comes to poverty. and the risk of that has on every day lives and people.

so we do need the support. i just don't know why we have to accept the support with blind gratitude rather than asking for accountability on how the tiles that are attracted with and on how that distribution takes place. a will a collarbone of a compromise on it stands on women and civil liberties. you heard what kind of on spokes person was saying about it? it's, it's laws it's, it's values it, it's culture. and that if the un or the international community persist with this character, the stick approach will most cool when the 1st off for the sake of factual accuracy, the u. n. n. a fondest on, especially the world food program, the procure locally to local vendors. so that helps the economy have some sort of circulation, but uh yes, i mean, this part i've only gone to see to hear about values and norms that supposedly

haven't been figured out in the past 2 years. we kind of seem to be here. i mention off laws what laws we don't have a constitution in place. and upon this fun, we see little inclination towards even drafting a constitution. there is complete centralization of power. and the problem is everyone looks at the bond like they are up under a box that we or a black box that we don't understand. even though they have a political manifesto. their chief justice has written a political manifesto, endorsed by the amused himself in which they see that women will stay at home in which they say that women do not require world to be education. and all of these are fundamental beliefs within the movement. so whatever. so him show him or others are seen even though their own daughters go to school, is for lack of any better word, hypocritical, often because they understand the value of education for women. somehow neither did

they stand up to their leadership in changing the mindset that is dominant. i'm also moving costs. second, they keep defending it and making it sound like it's a temporary issue. whereas it is not 6 years of the 1st thought upon reaching should have taught us the lesson. and right now just never it is aren't working. there are ways to work around it. if we modernize yvonne. busy while we're up for which with regards to the carriage send sticks that we have there are ways forward, but i don't think we'll be more believing the funded bunk glitches helps us any more. let me know, i, i assume you're shaking your head there and disagreeing at one point what, what was that you were disagreeing with? yeah, well, i mean, i, i've never seen the evidence of the un has how i have a focus on empowering local communities. and so i'd like to see that it's just, it's just interesting to me that we would be in favor of that,

that sort of dependency. it is obviously been created or we wouldn't be where we are today versus 20 years ago. a james, you've been to have cost on many, many times over a number of years with your work with without 0. and you haven't been back the, in, in, in 2 years since the time about and came to power. i know you've, you've only been back in the country as a matter of allies. but what are your 1st impressions? upon landing the a very important carrier that i reach lake city. how about and you just landed here in the last few hours and it's friday. so it's the weekend, so much cloth of the normal. it is very old feeling for someone who has lived here in the past. his being here numerous times since 2001 to see the streets and seen so many things that are the same. but one fundamental thing that is completely different. some things web, what very, very normal, to be honest with you. um you get your visa, its exactly the same visa you used to get from the previous government looks

exactly the same. you arrive in the apple. uh, very efficient working very, very well the apple for me at least when i arrived here. and interestingly a contradiction, perhaps i saw the most off in the apple, but the, my bags was scammed as i came through the scanning machine that was operated by women working alongside man. well, if that can operate in the apple, why is that different from having a female students going to schools and universities? a sort of quick contradiction straight away as i arrived in the country and then made my way where i am now. so the out to 0 office, which i've been too many times before in the, near the center of cobble looking where the used to see the big flag of, of is like republic of. i've got to solve it and really rather shocking to see the white flag of the thailand flag a giant white flag of a couple. and james, what is the when doing on the ground, the in the country right now as well it's,

i think i'm not the easiest question because what they've said they're doing is stopping that work and keeping that. um, the teams at home. i'm working from home, trying to keep some sort of a delivery stop trying to keep some sort of mobile service, but not sending people out until they can resolve this issue on women. as i told you earlier on, there is the dispute between the political in the humanitarian side the you and finally, i think is going to come out with a position in the coming hours. but i think it's going to be difficult for them going forward. they, they do not have unity within that team, and i think that's going to make that work on the ground very, very hard indeed matched by all the other problems we've talked about by the really bad state of the economy and a that, that's is just going to adds to the, to,

to the distress and hardship for, for so many off guns mean out of the facts on the ground. a going to be very difficult to change. i mean, politically, in the short term, at least in the meantime, people are dying of hunger and now the attrition is james said that the, the suffering. i mean how, how, how does, how do we move forward from this? how do we save lives? well, i mean, the thing is it gets blurred together, right? the, the politics and the, and the situation are, are 2 very different things. i think the, there's a lot of hypocrisy going on and how we look at a get a sense politically so differently than we would anywhere else. but at the end of the day, the situation was it was not helped. and this past 20 years, it was worth it, and the numbers will show that. so i think ultimately we have to focus on aid as something as separate as we can from, from the political situation. but that doesn't mean it has to come without accountability. i, i think we're critical of the un and,

and the international community and their support again is that it doesn't mean that we don't think that, that it is an emergency. it absolutely is. but it's because we hear that it's such an emergency that were demanding the accountability that, that should go along with it. all right? they were gonna have to leave it many thanks indeed to all of your james bayes made a chevy for and over the how may have, as always, thank you for watching. don't forget, you can see the program and get it any time by going to the website, which is 0 dot com for further discussion. join us at our facebook page. that's at facebook dot com forward slash h a inside story or you can join the conversation on twitter handle at a inside story for me. adrian finnegan and the team. here though, how, thanks for being with us, we'll see you again, bye for the the

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