is south of places like sure lanka is one of the southern parts of india, thanks to a developing storm system. in the bay of bengal, it could become the 1st icon of the season, but ahead of at some very wet weather pulling into the south. we could see some flooding from that for the north of this much dry, a picture across moving parts of india as well as pockets done and bung with dash wet temperatures continue to rise in dhaka that you, whether the fishing town in synagogue losing it is on to the dreams of a better life. emigration because cynical doesn't offer opportunities. outages here well tells the story of a community via wave of immigration and meets the women that i lost. my husband we don't office

on, i'll just see is the pandemic finally over the world health organization says covered 19 is no longer it was folks emergency project includes the caveat of the virus is here to stay. so what lessons have been learned from one of the most devastating diseases in history? this is inside story, the to hello and welcome to the program on top of the crime of to being in place for more than 3 years. the world health organization has declared, covet 19, is no longer a global health emergency. it's a major step towards the official end of the pen to make that's killed millions of people ravaged communities and disrupted the world's economy. it will now be off to

governments to manage the outbreak any way they think the best fit of your kind of reports. after the death of an estimated 20000000 people and more than 3 years of restrictions around the planet, the world health organization says depend, demik is no longer a global health emergency. the worst thing any country could do now is to use this news as a reason to let donate scott, to this month and the system see it has built or to send the message to its people that click 19 has nothing to worry about. the u. an agency 1st declared cove and 19 to be what is called a public health emergency of international concern. in january 2020, about 765000000 infections have seems being recorded world wide. and the death toll reach the peak of more than 100000 people a week in january 2021. this is a moment for reflection. copied 19 has left and

continues to leave. deep scottish on our world. those guys, my set of are the per month reminder of the potential for new viruses to emerge with. the bi, stating quite sequences. the w h l is called, reflect the decline in cases a lower rate of death and greater immunity to the fires among the global population . more than 7000000 people are confirmed to have dies thought the w h. o believes the actual figure could be about 3 times that governments 1st responded to the panoramic with locked hands and travel restrictions, but was a new vaccine technology based on em or in a they quickly launched vaccination campaigns. on 13000000000 doses have been given to people around the planet. yeah, most haven't received one. so is it possible to say to con demik is now over? and how big is the threat the world could face and know they're pretty

a car for inside story. the, let's get the thoughts about gifts. now joining me in robust as, as a, didn't abraham me professor of medical biotechnology and director of the mohammed 6 center for research and innovation. and doha is dr. petra tang division chief of micro biology, et cetera medicine. and then copenhagen is jeff lazarus, professor of global health. it's the u. n. y graduate school of public health and health policy. he is also a full, i'm a senior technical officer, so communicable diseases for the world health organization. i will welcome uh, 2 or 3 of you. thank you very much for being here on inside storage. if, if i can begin with you place being a former w h o employee, do you think that this is a confusing or conflicting message from the w? i chart, i mean, saying on one hand it's no longer a public health emergency,

but also trying to convince people and governments around the world to still consider this a very real threat. it's a very confusing message for most people, some governments, but certainly for the general public. we have to remember that w h o declared the public health emergency of international concern in the context of the international health regulations. when there's a health threat, because that it's such a big risk to other countries in terms of spread of infection and mortality that it calls on countries to collaborate internationally. so we're, we're already past that point. so in the context of h r and as was already mentioned, the declining mortality and the grease community due to the vaccines. it's saying that now although it's, it's not an emergency, it's still considered by w h o to be a major public health threat. and i think there's some confusion and we need to get

clarity on the importance of addressing the pandemic treaty. that's in progress and maintaining high levels of explanation. so we don't see mortality increase to get me as the thing is, what is the risk if there is any, if, if people think that the pen to make is all over when there are still i think the w i chose did yesterday that uh there is still one person dying every 3 minutes from covet 19 i conic from denmark. actually, i think the funds i think is still here somehow, but i think the show was actually forced to do this because in most countries and then talking from the african countries, most of them actually happened on sunday actually left all the restriction for the corporate 19 but i think as a scientist on the here, we have to be handled actually, and that's one of the list of this. we have to go through this through the, our,

what we'd have through the call me is a community. and i think the volume system here, there's a possibility that's gonna be some really new kind of changes from the station on the virus. and that's for the coming back to the other hand. i think we have to start thinking about the best corporate because that's would it be more important? i think the lesson that we have to take from the car we're talking that's beside that we have to say next what we do next sunday. i think it is a couple of less with us. we have to take a duration. and by the way, they may be for the next something wide, we gotta get the knowledge of this. well. yeah, we're certainly going to get delve into what, what has been learned and the mistakes that have been made from covered 19 don't to 10. i mean has the w i chose, i mean, have we is as a, as i guess the world if we surrendered now to cover 910, and we just, we think this thing completely fly. well, 1st of all, thank you for having me. i think there's a lot of new ones in,

in model messages that we have and the difficulty is communicating back new ox. it's not that we're just letting things why. and i think some people might interpret it in that way. but in the masters, some of the visual response from other public health leaders is certainly not the case that the virus is gone, that we don't have to worry about it. but in terms of everybody's everyday life, it's going to play less of a whole so. so i think that is very important message that has to go out. because if we keep saying that this is an emergency, when people don't do it in their regular lives, we're going to lose that. try to trust that we didn't have during the time dynamic and, and uh, if we don't communicate in a way that is, can grant what people are doing there, they're not going to be on that account. officials are transparent. so, so i think the message that we have, we do have to be great with what people are viewing, but also have that new loss that, that we need that you know,

shows what new use happens best, you know, for the most people that the time domain guy is mostly a mild disease, but there are still high risk groups out there. there's still regions of the world that are under that, so need it or don't have access to through the health care. yeah. to basically setting it's a, it's a delicate balancing act. i mean, do you think that the w i chose, has got it right to, to, i guess, make this announcement now for? i think that's because there's things we're file, what's happening around the world. and i think the timing is appropriate given what, what people are viewing and, and that allow that we are in right now. and then me see if i know you wanted to talk about the implications for the, the, the ending, the public health emergency on the pen demik, tracy. just to just sit up exactly what the treaty is and what items to do. the international treaty for pandemic prevention, preparedness and response,

can you just explain what that is and what's the w i chose announcement means for the tracy, as it may not mean much. there's a very important international negotiating group working on the treaty governments already had a 0 draft on the 1st of february and are revising it. and in terms of technical components, it's a very strong treaty and i believe it will get better as the working groups continue to revise it. my concern is that there's a lack of accountability in the treaty, so we'll have a treaty that tells us what to do. but not the countries have to do it. it starts with an emphasis on national sovereignty and essentially allows governments and, and out to not follow the recommendations in the treaty. and that was one of the failures we had with the i chart, the international health regulations with covet 19. so i fear that the lack of an

emergency situation just as were still negotiating the treaty, could have a negative effect on. i also understand that at some point, we need to end the emergency, unlike with other infections, consider them a major public health threat if not an emergency situation. as a thing, i mean this puts the onus back on individual countries to manage it. i mean, is that really a good idea? we've seen some governments do better than others. what do you think they need to do from this point tell them to, to manage covered 90. so i think governments need to keep a focus on vaccination and particularly among vulnerable groups and make it very clear to me that was going to vote. groups are from the older population to the immuno compromised and terms of depend damage treaty. i think we need to see government start to budge the same way they did with the international crimes court . the i c c or the world trade organization, the w t. o, or really even in some, you know, the business address where, you know, it's a legal to,

to spread this information that can affect stuff prices. we need to make sure that it's illegal to spread information that can affect people's willingness to use effective vaccines. so i think that's going to have to be some seating of sovereignty in the context of the treaty when it's implemented because there's a demick declaration. okay, i want to move on to what we did, right? what we learned, what we're continuing to learn from covered 19 as it into to setup on a positive note. because i know there were a lot of missteps over the last 3 years. what do you think? when right what, what do we get rise? it's in dealing with carpet 90. i think it was stuff with something really very basic. not everybody knows. but the most kind of working on that sounds, i'm saying it's all reading magic re i think about for got they come back to the some of the people when thinking to who was

a master best southerly. the mask is but something that you read it very easy to use, but actually the biggest thing that i think i'm really jumping history was actually were a problem with those areas to be able to have effects the ending one year. and i think that was great think and great news. so i think now we, we half, we know how to move on to find the boxes and be able to actually talk through the vaccine parties, the vaccine. and on the other hand, to be able to do the testing, looking at the testing and be able to use it. i think the other thing that people knew about, and i think it's very positive that the tenant has and then a mid us. and there's something that's going to be here, it's going to be here. we want that or not get something got to be here. we have to invest in that. so i think the up i think is the role of the community is something very important. then we knew that if we have some communities, that's what really strong we were able actually to find the college without any problem. i think technology and community was something really

a big force behind what we did really of writing this stuff beside that. so i think that the we'd be under the tree to yes jeff was talking about these. oh really it's about us between suffering too. yeah. something very important and equality and i think that's a very big issue and all of us think that's we have to talk about the role of the b pharma. but that's another question that's we can come back to the end table. we'll get onto that in a moment. dr. tank like it's just sticking with the vaccine. i mean, looking back over the last 3 years, is it still quite remarkable that one was able to be or not just one? the multiple will, i will be manufactured and distributed to vast majority of the world and such a short timeframe. yes, and that has been amazing achievement. so in terms of the benefits of, of the pandemic in house for our bocce develop vaccines and such as sort of sign man's back to them in such a short time as well as, you know,

the discovery of antivirals and uh, that were effective against the started for me too. so those are gonna be the last thing i guess, these for us going forward for future pandemic as well as for other diseases that might be amenable to their own staff on time. so pharmaceuticals, i guess the flip side of, of, of the vaccine is the anti vaccination movement, which, i mean in some parts of the world spread almost as fast as the virus chip. why do you think that was what was said? so much resistance to not just the vaccine but also just taking general practical health advice from health professionals like yourselves. yes i, i think that goes back to the lack of trust in government. so lack are trusted in the public health system. and that comes from probably a lack of investment from governments over the past few decades. where, where is some of the safety net of countries have been i have less investment. so

people don't deal as a part of the country or feel that the government is, is that in there for them? so. so i think that that is probably one of the roots of that and the back seat is as well as the loss of trust in science and moving towards and in science text messages. and people exploiting some of those feelings and, and those leads to for their own economic gain. so, so i think uh the panoramic has. ready expose a lot of these, no longstanding issues in our society, volumes and in the qualities in our society and, and, and in that, that's been very evident throughout the time the american, these are things that may, the public health system wasn't quite ready to address that. we didn't realize how much missed information this information, how strong the anti vaccine room it was. so i think those are things that going forward. we need to focus more image on. just how do we reverse that?

said that the, the, i guess the mistrust the growing this trust in the medical and science communities . but so, any of the believe when the next pandemic rolls around? well, i think it requires a reinvestments. again, some of these things are happening at the global, international level as well as within countries. we have to re invest in many of the things that keep our societies together, not just public health, but that education and as well as the social welfare systems, all those things that make our society's work and make it fair so that people trust the government and you invested in, in the always the collective efforts that we need to do against public health emergencies, whether it's a pandemic or something else. so i think it has to be a lot of re investment backed into the people and getting rid of some of these in addressing some of these policies out. not just globally but also regionally. yeah,

uh jeff lazarus, if you could name a country or a couple of countries that did a good job and, and explain why they did a good job in dealing with the pen demik, this is some of the countries a did a good job in the beginning of these for example, was denmark which had a real whole of government approach to not just the prime minister or an epidemiologist speaking, but also ministers and education. labor of foreign affairs explaining to the public in weekly press conferences, what was happening, what needed to be done, how the public should react, what decisions the government was, was taking. so i think countries, you know, like denmark like new zealand, like finland or some of the strong examples of a government that really spoke as equals to their, to their population and engaged. you know, also down as was mentioned at the community level and really got the public to

understand that we're in an emergency situation and we're not going to get out of it, you know, without their, their actions. and if i can just add on the the vaccination comment that was made earlier while it is a very serious threat, the global studies, the global surveys over the last 3 years and shown an increase in the population willing to get fascinated. and i think what took many of us in the public health field and other fields by surprise was you know, the intensity of and the vaccination messaging. and it's really because of the spread of the internet. and often it's been traced to a few people in a and a few groups that have been able to add an incredible speed that we haven't seen before. send out this information to the public. so not so sure that it's, you know, there is mistrusting government and there is some of this trust in, in the science and the new technologies that's being addressed. but i think what

that, what we really need to address is how quickly this information and this information, intentional false information can, can spread around the world and in many different languages. this is a didn't know what to talk a little bit about the, i guess the 1st world countries and, and they were ability to, i guess at least getting vaccinations and testing to the majority of the populations compared to some of the developing nations, especially in africa. i mean, this is surely going to be one of the major things that needs to be worked on. we need for the next pandemic does roll around to yeah, i agree with you can really do this. i think i have to come back to, to the communication side, actually not for god because i think we have for 2 countries enough because it's like a big role in transparency and actually communicating the information. i told them great to have that i think so. suffolk, i played a big old actually and given the numbers on the corner, they think it tapped lots and everybody should remember that in the beginning of

the fund to make lots of information was to really shannon. i think one of the phones was the fact that i think coming back to a question, i think in africa all we get into really for the next something i, i don't know actually if we can, we are coming out of this one because the numbers are multi of the communication is not to you and the transparency is not to you. but the thing that's the w ensure, i think given that the, the default country sure the counter off it call because we have 1.3 billions of people, most likely the next on the mic. would it be coming from africa? i think we're lucky, that's a bonus state in africa, but everybody should think if there is a volumes or virus coming from africa and there is no communication about, it's a facility we have, it's the word they think of the motion also in the concept of the one hand that shouldn't be really applied to all countries. if you are really not scared about what's happening in ghana or in tomorrow. cool. and it's an easy one. so then these

days, because i think it has all the problem is there is a war actually. and so them actually, if we don't have discoveries actually to have information to happy for structures. so have awareness actually and communicate with them and educate them. it's going to come back to bytes, the work and i think that's something you have to think about it. maybe you would kind of smoke play at that something that's the breakdown. so use the when it's the data, it's actually in the beginning of the funding, but we know coming out of it, you have to have some equity because we were treated the same way in the fall and i think it worked. yes. a talk to patrick tang, i mean has a, we'd better prepared to deal with the next pandemic. do you think, or any of the lessons that we may have learned from this one might be forgotten by the time the next pandemic does roll around as well. certainly we have made increment of gains as well as substantial gains in, in terms of technology. um that and,

and pharmaceuticals and in our knowledge of public health in terms of for dealing with the next time demick. so. so i think, you know, from that point of view, from the science point of view, from the medical point of view, um, we definitely have make gains and we will do better from that point of view next fine. but from private, social and the human side of things, i think you still have work to do there. because without that trust about people engaged in, in some of these collective efforts to stop the pandemic, it's going to be difficult no matter how good your treatments are. no matter how good you're vaccines are you still in people seem to trust the system and that, and to be on board with whatever process we're going through. so i think there has been more focus on that as well. not just the science, not just, and that is what happens to covet 19 now, i mean it's still obviously one will be a global emergency, but it is still a thread. well,

what about long term immunity and the variance that a there's still a very real risk. so we always say or is it possible? yes. is it probable we don't know. so with the virus circulating very it's a variance of interest and concern are possible. so we have to continue to be vigilant. we have to continue to be sequencing new cases. we need to maintain close collaboration between governments. and we need to remember that millions of people are suffering from long coming back, and that we have not fully understood it on covered the way we have with source code to. so all they've been great medical advances with the vaccine and the treatments for severe symptoms of coverage. 19, we're still far, far behind and addressing long coded as well as i think. um, you know, the in general addressing what will happen if there is a new variant of concern. well, an emergency be called again, how quickly can we deploy vaccines on to those who have not received them,

particularly in low income cultures. and i mentioned all 3 of you are going to agree with this next point that it's obviously vitally important to continue funding. public health does try and stay on top of any outbreak and make sure it doesn't become a pen demik height. is it doing? do you think that we've got to sort of memory though, i mean, if it's in a decade or 2 decades time, you know, this is such a, a horrible 3 years for the people all around the world to deal with on many, many levels. that people will just want to pock what happened and move on with their lives. and how big of risk is that? i think it's a very vigorous actually i think i'm not going to. i'm really, i don't want to be pessimistic actually, but i think it's going to be in decatur. so that's what we're going to see as far as coming back. but i think as to how we'd be ready for it. so would it be the question, but i think for me more than we can see it in every day. life thinks that we do you

do? i do. everybody is do it right now. we came back actually to the normal life project and box lots of things, but still stating they have to just say that go because city getting people local, it is still here but they think you have we have to find that goal. but no, but think about the next time they make, i think, scientifically talking and being very helpful. a virus is coming. we have to be really what are the chances of it being another pandemic? you know, in the use a here to is, is there a greater chance of that happening now or with the knowledge that we've been able to gather over the last few years? does that put us in a better position to deal with any outbreaks that may crop up? so, i mean, one thing that people don't understand that outbreaks happen all the time after that makes happen over time. you don't always come to that global public attention . so inevitably, there will be another pandemic, whether it's 5 years or 10 years or,

or however many years away from now. so. so i'm hoping i'm hopeful that many of the things that we've made advances and we'll make it a little bit less of an impact on our, of occupation at home. also that the young people who are probably the most effective by this time demick that the generation that, that has interruptions or the education to the social activities. and that, that, that trauma was on the back. and then we'll have some positive effect that, you know, as they grow up, they will remember this and, and it will take better action before it when the next time that makes happens. oh, well, hopefully that is exactly what plays out then. well, even even that there isn't another pen demik like the one we've just seen to deal with. and now a lot of times at least, thank you so much for joining us. as a neighbor, he, me talk to patrick tang and jeff lazarus, we really do appreciate your time. well, thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting

a website, l g 0 dot com. and to further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at a inside story. for may tell mccrae and the whole team here, bye for now the the . the with, along with, with neither side, willing to negotiate because the ukraine war becoming

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