revolutionizing this was the same using funds in our disease settings. images here inside you have science, you have technology, fast fries, phone, which is 0. the important thing if you're walking around and very rude, was not in the line of fire from the holiday fall off. we heard gunshots. i was the 1st one to feed the whole thing back to last. it's 3 days. and 3 nights and the one know prisoners in control, and you control over the region around and that's why it was such a lot. an icon is the conflict at the heart of the lebanese civil will be rude holiday inn hotels. on al jazeera, the, the

you're watching out a 0, i'm getting obligate to live in though how with continuing special coverage of turkey is elections. and we will not sleep tonight. that's the message from turkey as main opposition candidates. as the results of the hotly contested presidential vote go down to the wire. let's christmas time is they've done joining us or stumble sammy talk us through the latest numbers. well, 1st of all, this is a situation where the main opposition candidate has been saying. we will not sleep tonight that gives you an idea of the intensity of this phase of the boat. this is on the knife edge. and the message is that this is going to be a hotly contested one. let's take you through some of the latest numbers that are coming in to us here. all right, so according to an adult on use agency numbers, the official use agency that active type of the one is still leading the

presidential vote counting. he's at 50.01 percent 50.01 percent. that's a significant number because if any candidates, if no kind of the manages to secure more than 50 percent, we go to the 2nd round. so right now, we started out a few hours ago with roger type out of the uncomfortably above 50 percent as a projection a now with 87 percent of votes counted. he's at 50.01 percent. his main rival come out of color, start all new, the leader of the opposition that may not physician block. he's projected by an adult to have full, the full point to one percent. so he's quite behind bunch of time out of the, according to these numbers. now we know, of course the opposition to disputing this and they say come on collected all lou and the projections isn't the lead will have to see the still votes to be counted.

alright. that's for the presidential election. how to things stand with parliament because paul them is going through an election today as well. well, so far 80 percent of parliamentary votes have been counted now of those 80 percent they give 50 percent of the votes. 50.7 percent to the root in coalition. so default sent to the opposition coalition and that gives a just still gives the routing co election just enough for more than half the seats of parliament according to projections. so fine, we have to be careful, of course, of course, with that all we have. so we have a number of correspondence covering this story, right. so across these vast nation, we have seen him call. so lou, watching things for us in this stumble, we've got uh zeno holder of course watching the situation for us from god's in tap

hush him on. the bar isn't deceitful as cold pallet. he's watching the situation from july baby, political opposition, party headquarters. but we stopped off with brussel solve though. he's also an anchor. he's that be ok. policy headquarters. and i understand now we're starting to hear also from more ok, policy officials, what is that line? well, prison there. one is just to read it and he said that the fact that the election has been taking place in unit twice in peace. it shows the maturity of the turkish democracy about the on the other hand, as quote one of the supporters not to leave the public boxes deal until the unofficial results or announce onto they will come to process is over. and you have seen that also an hour ago, the y c and the 5 for the ad was deputy recently. it was also as just lisa

statement saying that the position is certainly accuse in the institutions and trying to find an excuse for the video. now we know that the position is accusing of them is a just see from these agencies for monday in the results. however, this seems that this debate, the dispute is going to continue. but sir, you put on to our part of partners headquartered in on cut us. you can see that there is a kind of sense of separation here. people waving the flags that seem to load music year and but if you compare them with now to, to, to an hour or 2 hours that goes so we can see that it's going down because that there's a fact now here that, let's see around 90 percent of the most have been comforted and presidents add one as if no, no, no 50 percent so good. any candidates to be election?

she needs to secure at least 50 percent plus one. on the other hand, for middle part to support this, this deal is can see that as a success. because just before the election, we have seen several, a survey company. companies who should be that did that. the race is going to be neck and neck as if now we can see that there is almost around 5 percent of people in prison. is izzy. if they pad $110.00 to the, the position come out to the settled, i suppose this is below for the position for now. so there's like 2 scenarios. sammy, is that you're going to see a 2nd round. who is this? not for sure, but this is the likely scenario that now people are talking about. so what the support is that going to support the deputy person, the seconds on them, they would be able to manage the tools being what's here. what of the biggest surprise this collection has boosted on to present kendra,

so you can see that she's most of the 5 percent. so the 2nd on chief thought is we give you the team maker and everything supposed to be with the that the, you know, he was take, he's not used to the 2nd zones and elections is the 1st time fence. so the next 2 weeks are going to have most of surprises for us, but in any way, we can see that it's going to be quite chance tends to be as typeface. one of the other discussion here is that what the position is going to do. if it was that jane was sion and all of these results is not clear whether they wouldn't be able to keep it together. just the funny color, see serious in there. frankly, there is no point in arbitrarily accusing the institutions. if you have been monitoring the results at the polling stations must have a projection. so quit choosing this to sions. we also received the results from the

pulling stations on, but most importantly, the only thing that matters is the official tally, which will provide a clear picture. well, anyways, whoever williams this connection, it is. one of the most significant elections in, with, in, in, in more than 50 should probably cease or have seen that the, the competitor, similar to this better the price. because if i add one would in a city's type phase, and the supervisor will be the most bees that they are beautiful should be in other words, as of now, this is that the numbers that you guys are assuming us, that none of them has been able to convince the majority of this company that they are job. but we'll see you should you see the could be a picture on the 28th. if to night none of the kansas secure. more than half of

that if for a so just got a little less, if you were gonna think was so solid dollar, we must bring you up to the latest numbers that have come in. we've crossed that point. what i mean by that is, according to the numbers being put out by the official news agency present, roger, the type of the one still in the leaf, but he's now it 49.94 percent 49.94 percent that's live less than 50 percent almost 90 percent of votes have been counted. 89.2 percent. the votes have been counted and what started off with a comfortable lead about 50 percent for the of type out of the one has now full and below 50 percent still lives to be counted. anything could happen well to some limit now it's only 10 percent of the boat, but the likelihood of this going to a 2nd round just got

a little bit greater. his challenge, oh, come on color, start. all new. quoting ton of dollars result sees that 44.3 percent, so he's gone up slightly. but according to these results, he still be comfortably behind. one could say a good idea of type i was wanting to still votes to be counted. and we do understand that, of course, the opposition can have a different set of numbers by saying that candidates in the lead. but these are the official results that are not the official results. they come out in a 90 visa results being put out by the official news agency. this is the picture of the painting. all right, let's go now to hash model. he's also live for us incurring, but it'd be ok policy headquarters. so we've crossed that psychological line, well, 50 percent present and roger type or the one has gone below it. how is that resume? thing that i should send me here. they have an

explanation for that. they say that the predictions on the, the numbers give them by the states. they will push the state news agency and not to do, does not really represent things on the about us. the tell them about us. they say that in fact, they believe that the number is 5, the own representative or candidates come out of can miss out on the wall higher than those of president of the as on the blame the news agency for mischaracterizing. what has been happening at the ticket of those given by the people to the opposition? let's listen to wash. it, cut them in the middle of the day of the stumbled on one of the keep that goes of the main office is about to say has to be hard to say. i need to go, you know, just unable, as john said, unfortunately, as in every election, the unable,

new agency proved itself incompetent and incapable once the game and the but this will change during our leadership. we can no longer talk about the critical and reprehensible on the dollar agencies. when we look at these results, we can say that our themes lead to come out eclipse shut older, will become the next president. assigned me. this is quite an interesting moment. so they all positions they are looking for the final time is the 10 percent. but even if you get to a $27.00 or 88 percent of the over or votes, they say we have to wait until the end. they say that they made it clear, this is going to be a tight race, and that's only when you get to complete sense of the overall ballast. then they would can, they can come up with a final statement about where they stand. they, sol, indications that this is going to go to a run of the ticket any the votes that,

that the candidate see not on got and for them this could be a strong indication that they might have to go to a runoff. now this explains why they are being very cautious and they are saying you should be bracing yourselves for a long night. we still have some time to go before we come up with a final official statement about these elections. all right, and as we wait so that official statement, just take us through the mood of some of the opposition. suppose as hashem, you're at the headquarters that so a very high hopes and expectations from the opposition thus far. and of course, we have to say all the votes of not being counted, but last fall, the sort of scenario that some well hoping full of, of, of a clear leads by the opposition kinds of that, that hasn't appeared thus far. which time it went during the

campaign, the opposition coalition was saying that is was confidence. this was going to be on this topic. they say that up to 20 more than 2 decades of a call to vote. it's about time for change and they say well, and the say the reason why they think people now they will be vote for them and bring them pump to power. is because the messages about the need to bring democracy will restore it back to into a key and also 6 the economy. when resonates among many people are the same time they did understand that caused them to be able to put an end to the formidable election machine of the monte enters. and particularly the lead to the play. it adds what i was going to be extremely difficult, and for this reason, they came together in 2020 to the last days and nation allies all the table of safe

an umbrella organization of different political policies with only one targets toppling president bush, a place of july, but this coalition spaces its own problems. it has different views about how to move forward. and who should have a biggest, say in the coalition to the point where just about 2 months ago in march, they were about to disintegrate. over a huge disagreements about who should leave the opposition and who should be the key candidate to could only stay together when they got the reassurance. is that 2 young key candidates, or do you officially in the off position, particularly most of the of us. i'm sick, i'm in the, we're going to be fixed by can list that all the as hayes, vice presidential candidates in this election. they're waiting to see what happens

to nights. if they go to a run of the dynamics, we'd have to chase pull them, they would have to can some place to put 10. so for them to team up with the fed candidates, the 9 a lot. who made a remarkable show tonight by getting almost 4 percent of the don't know what it was, inspection came to be set the expectations about just few days ago before we'll have them into pulled off from the race. was that how them and jeff was going to be in this election, things have changed. now we have to wait, what happens to like, how to say so. i mean that when i was talking to the opposition appraisals just about the way to go about what happens in the upcoming always. they say we're not rooting out any possibility including us winning this election to nice. sammy it's all right. yes. a lot to, to wait and see what happens and things, you know, took the elections off and come with surprises. so we do have to watch those

numbers carefully, but just to bring everyone up to speeds, 49.94 percent is now the projected number for present idea of type of the one under the 50 percent. make it more likely that this is going to go to a 2nd round. this is coming off to a long day of voting in which it vote has been going to the ballot to express the feelings best sentiment over a number of issues that start with the one that unites most people in this country . the economy. well, as we know, inflation, i knew the inflation for 2022 is at 64 percent the peak last year in october. but over 80 percent since then it's come down, withhold inflation figures for the month of april, around 43 percent. on the other hand is unemployment, unemployment stands around 10 percent. you know, those sorts of issues making the pain felt in the pocket book,

some better accounts for to consumers of costs. the routing out policy will say, well, inflation is coming down, unemployment is coming down. the debt to g d p ratio is 30 percent as about half of what it is in a major economy like germany. they will point to what they see is successes in tackling the spot for many. so could you economy the basic reality? his life is hard and took you. now, there are other issues over different fault lines. there is of course, the issue of repression. they've been allegations of repression by human rights. groups of a jailing of june was jamming of people over social media comments. of course the government says this is lauren, older is the price is a little older, but we've also seen some of the politicians issued with quote sentences. she's attractive, a lot of international attention. that's been another issue in the selection. and of course, the, the, all the traditional fault lines between come alice sent commerce and of course,

people from the more conservative wing of society, hey, we've seen all of these issues. we'll continue to see them play out. but perhaps things have not gone the way, particularly people felt in the southeast of this country that is in an area that seems so fall. so fall is of course, where a 18 time point 2 percent of the presidential vote seems to be producing bigger than expected lead, particularly for president bunch of type of the one. all right, let's uh, let's put aside the numbers. let's talk a little bit about the feelings on the street right now. we can go to send them call. so she is in the beating economic hop of this country. and this done, both text seems square and send them. tell us if we're starting to see some reaction, i know you were saying earlier that it's a quiet this sunday than usual. but now that we've crossed this flash hold on the

50 percent for both candidates. that's where we stand. now are we starting to see people digest stats and what that means as well? so i mean, yes, as we have spoken earlier in the earlier bullets in stock, same square is to flash suite. the hearts of tourism in his stumble is quiet. unusually quiet, but of course we have been speaking to people and many people wanted to cast their ballots in the selection and especially the supporters of the party. and the courage far deeper or the green left party and its name umbrella name. they are loyal to their by the boxes they usually go about. we have seen that a position supporters are also more and more into voting this during this election. so far,

we have been covering all these latest phil months in the turkish economy. and what we have been seeing him on through citizens is that even among the, for the ruling off work supporters, they're not happy with the rising cost of living. they're not happy with the installation. yes, the, the government was able to, they managed to bring the installation down from 80 percent to down below 50 percent. however, the prices are not changing and the governments are accusing the middle men for these pricing quizzes. and so no one is able to really assess whether this is the government for the seas or will or the scape pulls are the middle man. the prices haven't gone down yet, don't promises that the inflation is going to go down and down. it's going to be much lower. but of course, what we see in the turkish public these days is that 1st, they are trying to check whether their country should, should be more secular at speak back with the a font,

a founding values of the republic, or become more a service. and they are checking in, they are focusing on the cost of living is especially in big cities like a stumble and cut out is ma'am, this is what people are voting forts. and of course, they are voting for the kitchen for what it was a cook, because even the basic needs of turkish cuisine are very expensive when we are hearing lots of complain from citizens. but of course, despite everything there are still many people who believe that it is on the presence or just say, find out who can fix it. who can fix the losses of the earthquake close by the deadly twin earthquakes in early february. but of course, everything is full of surprises and we have the 3rd candidates, you know, i'm coming up as a start, as a king maker who can take the selection to our wellness. and also he can be a potential new leader of the match style as parties into keir saw me

the. all right, thanks so much. that's also go now it's designed to hold those. she's in the, the hotline one of the hotlines. it's sort of key and gauzy on that. and as we see these numbers progress, what kind of reaction all we seeing from people that route is you can see behind me there's a party in the streets of guy's gone to these not supporters of the ruling act party. the party of president already gone, the race is not over. not all the votes have been counted for people here are celebrating their confidence that they will win this election. the results that have been coming in so that the president is in the leads in the southern provinces, provinces which have been traditional strongholds of the act, far to the provinces which were also his hearts during the february earthquakes at

the time that was so much tags or even some of the president supporters, that the party lost some grounds, but it seems to have picked up. the supports is now back to pre quickly levels. and we saw that ourselves as we traveled across the region, talking to people. there's almost like blind space in, in the president, they trust him. they believe that he's the man who's going to rebuild their, their homes, their shots are lives. but at the same time, there is opposition. there's opposition in these areas, especially in the tides. the province of hotel, one of the hardest to provinces. there people are desperate. they say that governments didn't care about the us of the aftermath of the earthquake in 3 months on they don't care about this as well. the reconstruction process has still not begun. so this is still a very deeply divided country and seems like this is only going to cost further divisions because the opposition will feel how do, how are they celebrating

a wind when the final results have not been a thought. you know, i know. so for the, for the moment, sammy, there, there is a party, there's a party and guys the on to all right, thank somebody. signed a hold of the reporting to us live from gauzy on time. so that we all were looking at the numbers that continuing to come in 90 percent of votes have been counted according to the results. the results out for the 9.86 percent for present knowledge of type of the one. and he's a has always main challenge to come out of color, start all the with 44.38 percent will continue. look at this for now. i'll hand you back to that in and del huh. well there was another election being held on sunday in thailand or the results

show the 2 main opposition parties taking a strong lead as voters rejected parties associated with the governing military coalition. tony chang reports from bangkok, a tiny voters heading into the polling booth early on sunday morning. it's an election that some say could be the most important and decades as he registered his boat. the current prime minister search ties to do that democratic duty. i would like to invite people all over the country, all i use an agenda to eligible to test the thing. i want as many people as they can to come. the prime minister, real candidate from the main office, ition potty, tight looked calm and she came to vote the what she feeling optimistic? yes, of course. i have a very good mood actually. so i'm excited. what does she calls to about? she'll be very with that election results here, a really simple her policy is already under investigation by the election

commission. i don't have any concert i just i'm, i'm just hearing for, for, for thailand to, to, for the people to come out and, you know, use the right one for now. the deciding thing to could be move forward. he's policy lead. it was also hoping for a high turnover, the message of reform to take multiple from the military bank punches, split, the opposition side is the day true to a close. so did the polling stations under the watchful eye, the election monitors, officials started to call out the count. in thank cope, it was clear that move forward had made significant gains, achieving a clean sweep of seats in the capital, a bit of the policy headquarters. none of the jubilation of an out, right? when at least there's only 2 parties that have passed, the 100 milestones on the incumbent did not manage to,

to pass that at all. so i think the prop, the ability of minority governments is almost 0. now, that's the type h q, a significant change. it moved to the 2 opposition pauses, almost neck and neck. neither to declare victory smiles for the role of the new to departure for the latest time they had seen the way things are now outlined. slide off to the selection on the last, what is clear from new selection results? high electric chosen to say no to the military government. it's really so many as tony chang houses are the is really our me so is that a rocket has been fired from gaza, a truce between israel and the palestinian group islamic jihad which came into effect on saturday night has otherwise held at least 33 palestinians. and one is really were killed in the 5 days of violence. 6,

as long as he has commanders were directly targeted in is really air strikes. the conflict is the worst between israel and gauze us since a 10 day war and 2021. police in kenya has now recovered at least $200.00 bodies as they continue to dig up shallow graves connected to a religious cult. members of the good news, international church were urged to starve themselves in order to meet gods, the groups leader, paul, the tank and mackenzie is in detention. ukraine's president followed the most of us gives rise in paris for previously unannounced meeting with the french president, evaluated my call earlier in germany was given the charlemagne prize. that's an award that promotes european unity. the german chancellor or lof schultz and president frank walter stein meyer. promised renewed support to ukraine. salts announced a further $3000000000.00 worth of military aids to keep the cycle,

and mocha has hit me in more and southeastern bangladesh, leaving a trail of destruction in its wake. streets have been turned into rivers and major routes have been made inaccessible. power and telecommunications is down throughout me in mar, rescue services say at least 2 people have been killed because of the most powerful psych loan to hit the bay of bundle in 10 years past the winds up to a 195 kilometers in our 100 child re has more my mother's husband said the main rest of the 5 low cost, 5 of the time it made landfall here somewhere around 745, g. i'm said 280. i paid the way it was barely a 120 kilometers. 7 and you can still see it when the cell on is the printer. 2 when and a heavy rain it is 10 miles in the. a some damage, as one person was still there by following period. that's an unconfirmed report by

our project problem. generally saying that there's been some damage on the job for they've nearby asked for the running a temp. we know that's been no major damages our projects, they feel hot flood damage that already repairing. i don't know last slide or slot . so down i've been bad from the last of the fights alone. now the gum. a and the rescue and red crossman, i was going to assess the damage it might take a couple of days or even weeks because many of the fishermen lived and got it islands in the coastal area. a lot of the people who live in the coastal areas are in the south to the most likely we lose all that. that's what called care farm, land and other crop. those are major damage for the pool table and living by the coastline. it takes months in the air for them to get back on their food, unless they've got the help from the government. all the agencies, we have to pay one of the real damage within the next few days or even weeks. okay,

just before we go, let's get more of those results coming in for us are key is most tightly contested election and decades. take a look more than 90 percent of votes have been counted. present relative to your berto on has dropped just below 50 percent. his main rival calculus thurlow has more than 44 percent of this point, but both men saying that they're in the leads unit is unable, as john said. unfortunately, as in every election, the unable new agency proved itself incompetent and incapable once the game and this. but this will change during our leadership. this is we can no longer talk about as a credible and repaired to go on adulteration. see, when we look at these results, we can say that our themes lead to come out, click shut, all the will become the next president. i took the funny color future to sing that, frankly, there is no point in arbitrarily accusing the institutions. if you have been monitoring the results at the polling stations must have a projection. so quit choosing this to sions. we also received the results from the

pulling stations, but most importantly, the only thing that matters is the official tally, which will provide a clear picture. much more news online at alpha 0 as all com. i'll be back with more news at the top of the hour. so you then the hi, i'm steve clements and i have a question. our journalists and the media undermining our societies. let's get to the bottom line. the with so much may have in the news business these days. it's hard to keep track of who's in and who's out and where different media outlets stand on the issues. in case you didn't catch it. america's biggest news host tucker carlson is out at fox news, but he's now in a twitter, which he says is the last place on earth where you can find free speech. other household names have recently been fired, and major companies like cnn are trying to re brand themselves. and some famous

news platforms like by speed, have just pulled the life support plug on themselves despite the disruption and a lot of innovation, confidence, and trust and media. is it a real crisis point? so is the news suppose to enlighten people and broaden their worldview or go narrow and just reinforce people's biases? is this the new normal? today we're talking with a journalist who's had a front row seat to all the changes in modern day journalism. ben smith was in the launch team, it political. he worked as the top media right for the new york times and he created the news department at busby. and recently co founded a brand new news organizations center for were in full disclosure. i also work. he's just come out with a book, traffic genius, rivalry and delusion in the $1000000000.00 race to go viral. that tells the story of the social media revolutions impact on the news business. ben, it's great to have you on my show. it not only tells the impact of social media on the news business, and also talks about the social, you know, the impact of social media on society. and i'm really interested just to start with

. the big question is, this is what has led to the toxicity of our times. has social media really undermined our democracy? i mean, i guess the way i see it and thanks for having me on steve, is that um, is it social media and facebook in particular were totally bound up with the searches of populism? in the 2010. i mean, i'm not sure if you can see, i mean that you can't really run the counter example if there hadn't been facebook . but i do think, and the thing that i, you know, found in reporting the book was the extent to which, particularly the trump movement in the united states. you know, took these really deeply understood facebook digital media kind of followed its energy to the absolute logical sort of end point, which was in some sense, donald trump. so donald trump, who, you know, tweeted and all of this stuff is the winner in the social media environment. but as i look back in history, the one who was the 1st when it was brock obama and what it brock obama's team see

in the social media team that other, you know, progressive democrats fail to take hold up. but, you know, you have to sort of put your head back to this world in the early 2, thousands where, you know, we're facebook is, were college kids hang out. the internet is a set of blogs that are, you know, and the establishment critical of a mainstream media that has with notable exceptions. gotten the rack for ron isn't really on the internet is a bit lost. and there's all this energy 1st rand howard dean and then around brock obama, and it's really like it's a place for young people. and so it's almost of this, the brock obama kind of young progressive in united states is going to kind of ride this energy. anything similar things happen in letting them in columbia actually. but all over the world, sort of like young people, finding their voices on the internet, which was, which was the presumptive lee there. space. and when i brought, and when obama visits facebook in 2011 after his victory, you know, it sort goes without saying that this is where democrats hang out. of course, it is really right such an interesting. it's almost like anthropological treatment

of the early days of social media. you focus on buzzfeed and joiner pereta. you focus on nick denton who created gawker, arianna huffington, and others around her. the founded house post. i'm just interested in that moment and you were there watching all of this come together. in fact, you weeks for the i don't to call you, the forrest gump of it were hired by one of them. but you knew all of these characters? what did they get right? what did they get wrong? you know, they were among the 1st just to see this way of coming. and there was, you know, there was a huge, particularly if you, on a friday really saw social media was going to be, this was, i don't know already did both of the founder of us, it was going to become the central distribution platform. nick that and who founded docker saw the power of the internet to kind of strip away the artifice that it media. but i think also both to some degree of thought they could control these forces and monetize them. and i think that turned out to be a lot harder than they thought. so when you saw this, i mean your early blogger, i wasn't really blue, were on the water. that's a note. i wrote a kind of us, now i the, i read the book and everything i did in the washington note was exactly the

opposite of this. i wrote long walk, a foreign policy pieces that nonetheless found an audience in that time, folks. so it wasn't all bad, but i wasn't chasing traffic, you know, per se i was chasing people who i thought would be thoughtful about these issues, which was a different strategy. but i'm interested when you saw the doctor and i was afraid of doctor i never wanted to meet nick denton or any of his people because they were scandal monitors to. yeah, i mean, his philosophy was that, you know, the, the, that the possibility of the internet was to publish the things the journalist said to each other in bar is not the things they said on the internet. which by the way, i think you do not give yourself enough scandal longer and credit is some of what you do. and you were saying stuff that other people were afraid to say about american foreign policy at a moment of washington consensus. but all the big publications were in one place and it was a place for outside hers. and those that are blogs which were basically be early social media. we're a place where outside or is kind of throw

a spitball establishment. and i think in early gawker and this side called decibel to be like kind of the iconic thing, they can't tell the folks which is what it was. it was a feminist box still exists, but in its heyday in 2007 launch. the 1st thing they did was put out a $10000.00 bounty for an unread touched photograph of someone in one of these magazines. and they got a picture of people with it where she still has crackles and smile lines which have gotten photo shopped out. and it's kind of a emblematic of that eras mainstream media, which was photo shopping out a lot. and the sense that the internet could tell you what was really happening. and i think it was all, it was all in some sense kind of very small scale people learning how these, how, how human interest and attention worked on the line and watching it through the truth, through traffic until this wave of social media came and, and kind of massively amplified these tactics, these ways of thinking, you know, one of the things that occurred to me when i was reading your book, which i'll tell everyone in the audience it read it, it's, it's a fascinating journey into it into this time. and also what went wrong,

but in the days of walter cronkite or the big, you know, national network stations, or national radio stations and or whatever it may be. more people were listening to those in math and, and, and while they were, you know, not designed for small tribes just like you basically were forced to, if you were going get any news to have a wider aperture to get fed a lot more than you might otherwise, want just for yourself. but as media broke apart, people were fed more and more of just what reinforced their views or what they were comfortable with. and you described this beautifully in the book. and, and i'm asking myself, is that is what one of the main drivers that has led to the political fragmentation in this country where people really don't give a damn about someone on the other side of a perspective or a view or a political party. it, i mean, i'd love to hear how technology has, has basically disrupted, you know, our knowledge of the world. yeah. i mean,

i think, you know, one of the, probably the wrong, the thing we were honest about it, but i see it where i started in 2012 was we had this theory that when people started sharing news publicly in these public spaces like facebook, they would be their best sell. they want their friends to think they were nice people, they would share appeals for earthquake really relief and thoughtful atlantic articles and, and thoughtful bussey, news articles in our slogan for a while was know where it was. i mean, we have a bit me that both feet had 10 pretty yeah. we have but also definitely like silly means include animals, but certainly not like hateful saudi politics. like what kind of a person would go out in public and act like that. everybody will think you're crazy and obviously we were totally wrong about human nature. and so at some level there. but now i do think, and i think they were both, both the sort of broad moment how much anger there was and for which social media was a vessel. but then also there were specific technical things, the platforms did to amplify tibbetts and you know, and they were trying to get donald trump elected or whatever they were trying to move. the amount of time you spend on the platform from, you know,

4.7 minutes to 4.9 minutes. and the way they would do that is find what you were most likely to engage. and in this metric of engagement into the interaction, wound up amplifying things that you awesome things that were incredibly divisive. things were racially divisive. where if you comment, i hate this, it's racist. the machine says, wow, this person is very meaningfully engaged with this content. let's show it to more people. and i think that really, that in particular, that so 2015 to 2017 period on facebook, there were elements that drove these divisions deeper. that said, you know, a lot of that has passed, right, like and so donald trump hasn't been on social media for awhile. and it's not like things are that much better as well. i went to get to the trust in media crisis in a moment. but i remember when donald trump ran, and after he ran and you know, you were responsible, in part, you write about it. releasing the dossier which fed a lot of the paranoia about russian manipulation of donald trump. it also,

russian manipulation of the kind of the american political sandbox, if you will. and i guess the question i have is, when i read it, you know, i don't know what the russians did or didn't do in terms of feeding toxicity in america. we were doing it on our own right. there was an awful lot going on just by the algorithms that facebook was releasing, where the other people were doing that had nothing to do with foreign perpetrators . am i right? yeah. and in fact, there was, there was a british government report a couple of years ago that made pretty clear that i think a lot of commentators, i mean the, the, the russians did try to go on facebook and make things worse. but they were massively overwhelmed by our own ability just to make things worse and by facebook . facebook was amplifying this stuff, but also it was in the politics. it was in the culture down terms on cable news. and a lot of this stuff to it wasn't solely a facebook phenomena. wire democrats, so bad at it. well, i mean, i do think, you know, there was this moment when it seemed like obama liberalism was the thing the internet was good for, you know, sort of huffington post era. and i just think that if you know you follow the sort

of passions, you follow the traffic to its logical extreme. it is often telling people what they want to hear. whether it's true or false. lying to provoke a reaction, saying that rage of things for both reaction provoke i guess with the platform to call engagement. actually when i went to meet steve band and they're worried about it in the book and in trump tower in 2016. and he made a real study of social media, his studies huffington post, he had run breitbart, had just moved to the trump campaign. and the thing that he was, he was very interested investigated. and he was very puzzled that we hadn't just back to bernie sanders to the hell. what, why would you not just follow that traffic? follow that energy to become to him what right part has been to donald trump. and what was your answer? you know, that we had journalist acc standards that we were, you know, i mean, it's a, this feels like a very lame answer, honestly. like what we're just trying to do. our jobs, as journalists were, you know, we think that these and still we shouldn't do it. s gonna try to bring it down these institutions for fun. when you look at, i mean, you and i have talked about this offline before,

but when you look at american attitudes and there's, i think these numbers are reflected globally. frankly, we're talking about global audience. and a lot of the things i find interesting about your book in the u. s. case. or also true. you're around the world in the port ization is going on. but, but you know, basically more than 5053 percent of, of folks have a very or somewhat and favorable view of the media and, and you've got basically 20 percent very ambivalent that 26 percent are somewhat favorable. this is a lot of people do not trust the news. they do not trust us. they do not trust the media and i'm interested in culpability and liability you. i think this has got to be the most sympathetic treatment of true monsters that were out there taking advantage and writing this in my view. yeah. but how do we heal ourselves after the buzz feeds huff post doc or? yeah, well i'm, i'm, i'm obviously more sympathetic to the monsters. i think that it is general. i think

the media loves to exaggerate the media's own role in these things. and if these technological platforms have a lot of influence, the bigger social forces. but if you look at, but it's also obviously across institutions, one of the things that there's some media did was another thing that social media and some sense for that to be best. that was breaking down institutions and trusting institutions. whether it is the cdc, whether it is a newspaper, whether it's, you know, banks, i mean, i, or government i often by the way, way did that by revealing what these things were really doing. me. it's a complicated picture. it's not like it's not like the news organizations that we look back fondly in the early 2, thousands in late nineties. we're doing such a bang up job covering the a rack or it was just that it wasn't so evident to everybody. and so i think it's, i think it's very hard to put that in the back in the bottle. i mean, obviously, you know, we're partners and a new new thing and we're trying to figure it out. but i don't think there's some what we've all heard about 7 for for minute. forget that i work there and you work there. but i mean, how is set before going to address some of the gaps that you've written about between essentially content and substance. and the thrill of chasing traffic. yeah,

well i mean, i think one thing for better or for worse, i think people are sick of this sort of that sort of stuff going on facebook or twitter and seeing this chaotic kind of confusing but like lively and fun, nothing. everything says fun anymore. but i think actually consumers have moved on and are interested in help navigating this cas at and, but they, i think they are not basically the, a lot of people are not about to go back to trusting face listing students. they want to know who they're hearing from. they want a level of transparency about who you are, where you're coming from. what are the facts, what do you, what is your opinion, which is what we try to do, really schematically at that before. and i also think that people are there's, we're not all going back to being all in one place. right. i mean, everyone, the whole world on facebook and twitter yelling at each other. i think people are looking for smaller spaces, more intimate conversations. they can trust, you know, in that trade off between views and the quality. yeah. if $74.00,

would it become big? do you think it will be falling into, into the trap of, of views. you know, i mean it's a, it is a tricky thing in journals and because you obviously want people to reach you and i think good journals have a sort of a 6 sense for what are people interested in. they want to write that story and pick it that scab. and yet you also know that often the thing that will be most widely, rather mrs. and new on the internet, the new york sun, the great 1st kind of break out new newspaper in the united states. it's big moment was when it published a series on how flying mammals have been found on the moon. a series of scientific reports and sold out for days. i think there's always an impulse in media to tell people what they want to hear. and i think you have to resist it. and what happened when, when traffic came around, when all of this new flood of data, it's some sense. suddenly we're like flying with instruments. and if you wanted to, it could really take you to indulge your worst instance. you were

a twitter of saying that i and um, are you, did you go through any kind of withdrawal? are you still on twitter all the time? you know, i last to either later to, i mean i last we did 26 minutes ago or something, but it probably was a bad headquarters dying. i mean, honestly the thing i just as i'm a news junkie and the thing that strikes me that social media, if it has lost its basic utility for saying, hey, what is happening in the world. and i think people are going elsewhere just to that very basic, like what, what's going on, twitter, if you spend a lot of time on twitter, it is sort of, in a perverse way. fascinating to watch it fall apart. it's like some kind of disaster movie, like it is very compelling. but if you can't go there and say, hey, what's happening to that? that's just not what it's for anymore. you know, donald trump is going to appear on cnn. why do you think he's doing this? i mean, he's, donald trump has always said he, you know, denounce the media but in a way use that conflict and those positions as a spring board for more attention. and his sort of conflict with the media has

always generated attention. and i think, you know, cnn is incredibly, sort of to, to me, shocking degree, unpopular with republicans. it's viewed as sort of the animated the way a lot of democrats, who, if office of us and i think trump is putting on a show, showing his own strength relative to his competitors, to run the status. in particular. let me ask you the question and i hope i can get it out correctly. but when i started my own blog, which is around the time that you started yours, i sort of felt like there was a cartel and intellectual cartel of the editors at op ed pages at the major journals and bracket the washington new york times wall street journal and while a lot of them were saying yes to me and to my colleagues at a think tank, we were still getting told no, and it, and it bothered me that we're being told now. and i wanted to place to put these ideas, which is why the washington note became created. but i thought they were lazy, homogenized news organizations that were leaving

a lot of interesting stuff on the cutting room floor. and so i saw a market opportunity there to basically cover things that the mainstream press was like john bolton's confirmation was a big issue with that time. but without going, you know, to down that rabbit hole. i guess the question is when you look at the major media today, the new york times has bought a lot of bloggers. they bought a lot of the they've hired a lot of the people, including formerly yourself, who are of the social media world. what are the vulnerabilities today of the new york times of, of washington post and others that have tried to become hybrids of these, since you haven't, i think the times and it's a trick. you know, the times is big to i did not expect to write a book about the internet that was in part about the new york times, but certainly the times above all, i think is one of the you'll raise one of the winners leasing one of the huge winters of this era, i do think they for veteran, for worse took in a lot of the ideas. a lot of the people from the internet. i mean, part of the challenge is a lot of those ideas and people are inimical to the core ideas of the new york times. and if you sometimes look at the new york times say, wow, why are all these people fighting each other?

it's because they hired a bunch of lunatics from the internet and everybody disagrees about everything. and a lot of us have, have since left. but i don't know, and i think it is. and you know, in both of us have a similar ark of thinking that the establishment media media is basically being outside or is to it. and, you know, waging the sort of digital campaign to change it. and then i think to some degree, finding ourselves in this apocalyptic landscape where, like, wow, okay, like very effective challenge to these institutions. they're all sort of in ruins. and, and, and i think at least in my case, thinking hot like we've got to find ways to build trusted institutions and rebuild them. i think for another new moment where people are looking for direct connections, particularly individual voices. or the i'm seeing of, i mean, really strikes me about your book. and it bothers me frankly, is that you focus on these key individuals who saw, you know, the matrix edward differently than others. jonah per ready, nick denton, a technical error. nick, you know, arianna huffington and others,

but that one of the people who was very dissatisfied with sort of the dock or montrose of sexual pictures and you know, in your window. and so, you know, basically, scandal monitoring was. peter's deal is a rich 1000000000 error, basically to so we're talking about individuals have massive impact on the news, habits of american society or global society, or an individual who gets kicked off and has enough power to bring down one of these news organizations. are we living in this world kind of super gladiators? we're most this don't matter at all, were just victims or winners accidentally. but it's all about these individuals who figured out how to a mass, incredible power. and what does that say about american democracy and the economics of news today? i mean, i do, it does the, i, i totally agree with these in these immensely powerful figures. the alignment being the main ones, right. i've kind of gotten interested in news as a hobby and what would like to crush their enemies and elevate their friends and like have some theories. yeah, and it's, i mean it's a great, it is

a great story. but also, i think a big threat to the industry weren't the souls burgers of the new york times where the grams at the washington post, those same kind of characters. well, they were entrepreneurs who were in the news business. i mean for better and for worse, right? as opposed to people who, who made their money, who made billions intact and had actually incentives, legitimate grievances with the coverage and thought, well, i'll just like, throw a few pennies this way to destroy my enemies. i'm having somebody read the feature of this is massive inequality and well, right now let me ask you a more serious question here we have um, where are your anniversary out of a now? just or a journalist being killed in palestine shooting aqua. and it's made me think about how journalists are treated all over the world. we haven't engaged, kavitsky has been taken in and detained in russia, wrongfully we have, i think over 60, that had been killed over this last year. and so when you sort of look at the broad profession of journalism and i, i know a lot of journalists out there and they really admire you. they look up to you as

setting a certain standard out there. is there anything we're not doing to remind governments both democracies and, and are talk, receives in a way differently about the important role of journalists in journalism, unhealthy societies? i mean, i do think that journalism is a real threat to power that, you know, the internet made a foreign correspondents used to be kind of harmless if you're the russian leader and some american journalist is sending off despatches to appear in a print paper in english who cares now as a, visible to your own citizens, social media amplifies that too. i mean, you know, and autocrats aren't ron. i think to see this is a threat to them and to power, but i, but i do certainly think that the, you know, where, where democratic leaders are attacking the for us project. currently, trump, you know, helps you know, gives ex extra space for, you know, whether it's moody or put in or, you know, whoever else to crack down on,

on the press. well, i'm going to thank you for joining us. ben smith, editor in chief. it's similar for an author of traffic genius rivalry and delusion in the $1000000000.00 race to go viral. we really appreciate you being with us. thank you so much. thank you. is this. so what's the bottom line? i gotta say we're not much different than lab wrapped in a massive media science lab. we get poked and we get provoked with different algorithms designed to elicit certain responses. and we love it. but despite all the technical innovation, the rise of citizen journalist and a blogs and platforms like tick tock, instagram, facebook and twitter, you rarely get exposed to a range of different thinking. they feed you what you want to hear. sure, it's great to be comfortable connecting with others in our identity and political tribes. but it's not great to lose the ability to pop out of our filter bubbles and to have our biases challenged and sometimes cross the aisle and even reach an understanding with everyone else. the way the media works nowadays is a real problem when divisions within the society push up the market value of mega

social media companies. and when social cohesion is not good for business, then we know the future is going to be riddled with clashes and with controversy and choking democracies. the lab rats, we've all become need to find a way out and set up new rules. or else we remain really frustrated. little lab rats. and that's the bottom line. the a head bron boy's bree. ethan. slight picture button. this occupied palestinian city boys are also close to watch. spies really forces at times. 12 thoughts. an awesome arrested. a delicate key told tale filmed over 5 years of a coming of age and a place where even a child's imagination discrepancy, restricted disguise, above, had brought

a witness documentary on that. it shows that, you know, we understand the differences between self conscious across the ground. so no matter how you take it out is here to bring you the news and current to fast. the t challenges there. the hello, there is a laundry. quiet picture across australia. we still got some thunder storms. however, at the edge is popping off in the very north and we'll see the rain pick up a close at east coast with paint places like brisbin things and sundry down paws into choose that you can see the yellow pinks showing the heaviest of the rain that we seen somewhat of a more quiet situation across the se, temperature is something a little bit high than they have been on monday. but by tuesday, look at that. they do start to come down. sidney. so can you launch $22.00 degrees

celsius? the with sunshine and parts will see the temperature not jump towards the mid twenties, but certainly by the mid week, but have a look at melbourne will be down to 15 degrees celsius on wednesday as the showers well through. the rain is the story phone using it in, but it will start to ease away from the cell phone and working it's way more ne, over the next few days, temperatures recovering in the very south range, starting to imagine that on tuesday, no heat has been story across parts of southeast asia, in recent weeks and single pul matched its old time temperature record over the we can temperatures all set to come down over the next few days as well to whether works its way in here. not just the full single pool, but also southern or across from much indo china. the to the journey of almost 10 years in which the shakonda award for translation and

international understanding has become the most important translation award from to the arabic language in the wild be awarded. announce is that the nomination periods? the 2023 starts from the 1st of march to the 31st of july. applications are accepted through the awards official website at w w, w dot h t, a dot q a. the challenge is with the, the, the .