positive japan by sunday losey dry and flooded for a southern. there was a problem with sun shining tokyo at around $27.00 celsius. but feeling increasingly shumate what was on shot across the good parts of india to we have got some showers so drifting across the northwest to pushing across the northern plains, easing over towards the banquet dash 14 wind pushing back in across southern progress, down through registar and turning rather, wait for the north west of india for sunday. the i'm harry davies in the, kimberly, in western australia or indigenous communities, attaining it with sciences to create a new approach to marine conservation land rover even. but the fear i'm afraid, when do you, when you're reporting from review, is you're going to try is protecting biodiversity pro defending themselves against the legal invaders, the price, oh no,

does 0. what are the root causes of modern day? slavery report says some 15000000 people are victims of exportation by others, and the situation is getting worse. so what's being done to stop? this is inside story, the hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much i'm shown. the numbers are staggering. an estimated 15000000 people around the world living in modern day slavery as recently as 2021. a report by the international rights group walk free suggest the figure increased by 10000000 within 5 years. the reasons are complex, but extreme weather conditions forced migration and armed conflicts or exposing entire communities to exploitation. low income countries are at the center of this

issue, but finding show consumerism and demands from rich nations are contributing to the problem. we'll ask our guest shortly about what can be done to combat this. first, let's take a closer look at the report. as researchers found, forced labor is among the most prevalent forms of modern slavery. also hang on the list as forced marriage, which affects about 12000000 children. most of the girls every year. the report says, the biggest offenders of modern slavery or north korea eritrea and martine. yeah, they're followed by saudi arabia, enter key. india has the highest number of people about 11000000 living in monterey . slavery is followed by china, which has roughly 6000000 finding show huge consumerism in which countries is worsening. the problem, more than $460000000000.00 worth of goods were imported by g 20 countries and 2021 . and some of the industries use modern day slavery as part of their production line. all right,

let's go ahead and bring in our guests in london, sophie ot and a ceo of the global fund in modern slavery and a survivor of human trafficking in bangkok fil robertson, the deputy director of the age of division and human rights watch. and also in london, grace forest founding director of walk free, the rights group that published the modern slavery report. a warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story grace, let me start with you today. how is modern day slavery defined and what are its root causes? as we define button slavery as the systemic removal of a person's freedom. but one person is exported by another, the personal financial gain. it's an umbrella term that encompasses a number of highly explorative practices, including false labor force, marriage, debt, phone beach, human trafficking, and state imposed false label. the fact that we're looking at 15000000 people living involved in slavery in the world today is truly shocking. a 10000000 person

increase in the last 5 years, and we put this increase down to compounding crises throughout the world, from the club of 19 pandemic to the climate process to protracted complex. but modern slavery is not a new problem. button, slavery is connected to historical inequality and to date, social and equity, which i'm sure my colleagues so i feel 10, they can talk 5 more about it. so if you let me ask you when it comes to the methodology involved in collecting this data, do you feel the communities that have been impacted by modern slavery have been centered in the conversation about these issues. up until this point, i tend to so much mohammed i think for this particular i would speak about this particular report. yes, they've been sometimes, i think one of the things that is totally good practice and that would commend that work for the team in collecting this information. what they did did was really

lockwitzer, right, by me does on the ground, perform what we call and lived expect groups. why able to feed information? i'm really talk about what the next peter experience of ad. i'm also like give recommendation for me. that's the most important thing. historically, when i write write me does, i'm impacted communities have been brought into conversations. the discussion has what it has been telling best totally of i'm doing. we got dictating trauma, but for this particular lab report, i think what the practice in general was actually giving recommendation, which is i think us fix to the coordinator of this report. this time is phill. i'm one of the countries mentioned very prominently in this report, in the global serve slavery index. it list north korea as having the highest prevalence of mont and slavery in the world. human rights watch has reported in the past. the film yang uses preparatory labor abuses to build its economy in the past

when human rights watch has reported on this issue, what have some of your findings been to? well, source labor is use a, the systematic and per base of practice in north korea. it is used not only to construct everything from infrastructure to ski resorts, but it's also used as a form of punishment that the people who run afoul the regime end up in the forced labor camps. in some cases they end up in camps like the wiley. so what for political prisoners is a place where people are worked to death. so it is part of the core out core sort of practice of north korea to demand forced labor from their people. and you know, they've now made it as result of the, the changes that took place during the code pen demik. they made it much more difficult for people to escape. so now we have a, you know, a northern border with china that has barbed wire, non guards. so you know, it's a force labor, gulag with guards that shoot to kill. if you try to escape grace,

i saw you nodding along to a lot of wood. phil was saying there, so i'm going to give you a chance to jump in, but i also want to ask you about some of the other countries mentioned in the report among but 10 countries with the highest prevalence of monitor slavery in your reporting. are there a tray, a martini, of saudi arabia, of course, other countries as well do with those countries and the other countries have listed have common characteristics and if so, what are some of them? and they absolutely do have common characteristics. we're looking at a number of authoritarian regimes, where entire social groups are excluded from social plans altogether and equally with systems, a built of structural inequality. so for the 1st time we have 3 arab states and the top 10, saudi arabia, q 8, and the u. a and this is largely due to systems i could follow when margaret work is being exploded in the hundreds of thousands on depending their economies in all ways. but when it comes to countries like eritrea and north korea,

we are looking at widespread state and probably as forced labor. and this is really concerning. they're actually 2 of 17 countries experiencing state in post falls labor throughout the world, including the countries such as the united states. but i think what's important when we talk about state in post falls label is that we understand that this is happening at the hands of governments. and it is happening often to ethnic minorities and is connected to supply chains of the goods we buy and use every single day. so when we look at the products of the highest import risk that governments connected to cotton or solar panels connected to police telecom, both of these areas link back to shouldn't jang and china with state and pose, forced labor is occurring grace. i also want to just to follow up with you and dig down a little bit deeper into the, the number. i mean, the reports as an estimate of 50000000 people around the world have been living in monterey slavery as recently as 2021. and if there's been an increase of 10000000 since 2018, i believe was the last report. does that suggest that there are 10000000 more

people now that are living in modern slavery conditions, or is it that the methodology has changed and that you were able to identify more people that are living in those conditions that have been living in those conditions prior to 2021. to yes. so the answer is both the methodology has become stronger and this is without a doubt the most rigorous report was ever put out. but i can unequivocal. he said he sees a comparative estimate. it is an increase of people living in modern slavery and the facts that governments, a few governments have implemented legislation to combat modern slavery and yet the issue has gotten worse is a major problem. the fact is, we're looking at increasing vulnerability and diminishing political well. and for many countries in the g 20, it's important to note that they do not have adequate legislation to prevent them up and say for it or to respond to protect the survivors, criminal justice systems and send them in some of these countries, re traumatized and re traffic people involved in slavery and i think something that

is really important to note about these new findings of 50000000 people. is that over 50 percent of that figure, a lot of people experiencing more than slavery in g 20 countries. and on top of this, j 20 countries have half a trillion dollar import risk. a sophie, i saw you nodding along to what grace was saying that did you want to jump in or yeah, i did send that to you. i just wanted to say to agree with j as in terms of the numbers and the increase to when you think about all the issues that we've gone through the past 3 for years. if you're talking about call read 19, you are talking about the humanitarian crisis. that is going around, that was, these have led to tools costs increase, wonder ibt under french, or send me back to number. it was reflected in the increase that we are seeing. and as we are saying that all this back to total cases going on, i'm, this is just one of them. and we need to think about how we dealing with these

things together. i've a solution to addressing, you know, pressing issues that have fixing who might need to rather than citing mode where everyone is watching and not very specific issue, which is such a war type. what happens when they're talking about climate change. but just talking about climate change and, you know, talking about what you, you can the only talking about the way or in ukraine. but when you think about it, all of these issues are affecting the same, same groups of people that for when we really need to start coming to we care about and actually thinking about how we come up with solutions that type the rest of these things to get back because we have c 1234 for us to actually do that. so if i've heard you say in the past that the numbers don't capture the individual stories, enough of the people impacted by modern slavery. i mean, when you're talking about 50000000 people, that number is staggering. that number is horrific. but i'm curious from your point of view,

how difficult is it for people to really understand the conditions that so many people in the world are living and people that are confronted with this reality day by day. how difficult is it to reach them when it comes to making them understand how many vulnerable populations there are out there in the world? so i think again, we go back to when i say this is the numbers, basically just say, okay, this have number, that's really important because this is really helpful for people to learn, to find something. if you don't see how, how big the issue is. so i definitely think the numbers have been compartment that lives in that issue, but yes, when you think about what i said before and think about them, i don't see it varies for a studio, right. i got a who is stuck in that house that way and be to pure some way and they will be who is being abused by their better latino. if somebody drove me to walk in now enough from so it's my to close friends of abuse happening to pass on that sometimes it's

not it's the same pass on 16 different forms of abusers. i think sometimes when we talk about what you've done, especially when the new case number of people assume that you know these spots one is just going to this one not be was very i need to by to assign, divide the same data that it's traffic to for domestic walk will be sexually abused in the house. that's impossible and we'll do the same password, but to do does not have documents to identify them. so when you think about one diabetes of the death thinking that this is something that basically cutting the affects. uh, a very specific group of people, i think of grave embed replied, save that, you know, this, whatever is happening is happening by design. and we really need to question how we've structured our system as you know, as you might need to. so that best specific groups of people that tend to be

experiencing the same thing for it's the same, same groups that are being affected by all these different issues. so that in the quality is by design, it's not by mistake. so i realize it's a bit of a broad question, but when it comes to the asian countries that are tackling these issues by and large, how have they done a, how are they doing and, and are governments in asia doing more to combat impunity when it comes to abuses against laborers as well. i think one of the big problems are the hidden dimensions of forced labor amongst migrant workers in the region and also amongst migrant workers. we're leaving the region region going to places like the middle east. what we see is there is not any sort of system of effective regulation or laws that empower migrants to basically represent themselves to organize unions to be able to protect themselves. instead, we see systems that are all about control,

about giving power to employers over migrant workers. and then failing to intervene when we see, for instance, abuses against migrant domestic workers, including beatings and sexual abuse, and non payment of wages. when we see uh, you know, persons in debt, bondage in places like malays. yeah. you know, entire factories from people from south asia who can return home, begin to get, get paid the, what they were promised. or, you know, the starts of, uh, uh, forced labor on fishing boats, you know, which has been entirely a hidden hidden problem. that is one of the big issues. i mean, i think it is very important that we found, you know, friends and systematic, forced labor in places like seeing john, you know, what is being done to the leaders in the, in the target minorities, by the, by the state in china. and what has been done and north korea as we already mentioned. but, you know, there's, there's a whole dimension of, of migration that is simply not being addressed by the government. so few of them

protect american work are so few of them have ratified the conventional migrant workers of the relevant i. low conventions. and so few of them have put in any sort of system, systematic regulation or laws to protect american workers and, and do the kinds of work that is needed to help migrant workers when they go overseas and feel, you know, when we've spoken in the past, we've often spoken about these migration issues, especially when it comes to refugees. let's take, for example, a topic you and i've spoken about many times before, which is refugees fling me in more explain what's going on. i mean, of course, particularly there were a hand guy want to ask you just how buildable are these populations the fact that they are fleeing or the fact that they are refugees? how easy is it for them to be drawn into the circumstances, whether it be forced labor or whether it just be more in general, modern slavery conditions? i was in, fortunately it's, it's rather easy. i mean, and what we see, for instance, in the very large number of ro, hangup in saudi arabia and also in malaysia,

is that these people don't have documents. they don't have protections. they are operating on the margins of society. they're very easy to exploit. they're easy to force into labor. you have issues of child marriage, you have issues of a forest marriage. you know, the, it goes on and on. and it is connected to the vulnerability of the growing state unless persons and also people coming, you know, fleeing acts of genocide and crimes against humanity in the armor. so there is no where uh that there is no country that wants to protect them because me, i'm are, doesn't view them as being from me. i'm a sophie, i saw you nodding along to a lot of wood. phil was saying, there, i want to ask you 1st about when he was talking about forest marriage, how, how big of an issue is and how big of a component is this? when it comes to modern slavery and, and how many people are we talking about? i just wanted to basic, i knew your cord feel said that when you have

a group of people who might do not like that, even though they're 12 based system, not protecting them because we need to be mindful governments to actually protect people. and that if it's identity documents, allowing them to organize. so i showed protection systems which we see existing foresight in groups of people, not necessarily such in groups of people. i think the thing about 1st matters that i thought was interesting was also the fact that when we talk about 1st matter and most people think that 1st my did pete mean 90 existence. i to him, countries, we're seeing this report that was not the case that the numbers are not just in one part of the, of the, of the globe that we think that the number of us spread, rather than what we mean enter your thoughts. great. so, so let me go ahead and ask you, then when it comes to the issue of force marriage, what kind of numbers are we talking about? how big of a component is this in the reporting that you all have done?

it's a very big component. we're talking about 22000000 people and i think it's very dangerous for people to ever think of false marriage as separate to other forms of mountain slavery. when someone is forced into a situation of labor, that time could be fed 5 days, 2 weeks, 5 months or a number of years. but a sentence or false marriage is a life sentence. it's often happening to minus and people who are being commodified . and i think what's essential in understanding the increase in full smart throughout the world in the last 5 years is that it's happening on the backdrop of women's rights being rolled back globally from the united states to afghanistan. and we're seeing major issues on women's rights not being documented, not being saying is critical to sustainable development and defense that in terms of costs is often the 1st thing to be taken off. the table is the rights of women and goals we sold as in the cause of 19 pandemic when somali and book to read and legalize child marriage for children as young as 8 years old, as

a direct result of the economic volatility felt by the pandemic. if you come down to my region of the world in indonesia, there was a 50 percent increase in applications for child marriages as opposed to 2012. this is not a coincidence as sophie so importantly said martin, slavery is not an issue that happens. and i solution it is a deeply gender issue is it is an issue of racial injustice. it is an issue of not valuing migrant workers who are an essential part of our economies. and margaret workers who sometimes travel the seas for work also and up in force, marriages. and as so if you said, false marriage is a being experienced in every region of the world, cutting across ethnic, cultural and religious lines. we've seen false marriage cases in australia, certainly many false marriage cases in the united states. and it's obviously no surprise to people what force marriages occur in times of conflict in crisis. as a result of economic volatility too easily is explained on cultural custom. all that's how things are done. here are the women in that society and they'll often

tell you something different. but i think it's important that we piece together the rights of women and goals in the times of crisis and understand unless their rights are embedded in little and valued by cultural custom by another given. still, often times when reports of this nature come out and shock, a large group of people, there are governments that will start trying to change their laws. and there are governments that have tried to change your laws when it comes to modern slavery practices in the past. several years from your vantage point though, are these types of laws actually implemented? well, that's a big problem, isn't it? i mean, the, you have uh, the effort to pass laws and we saw this actually, you know, really one human trafficking became an issue back in the early to, to thousands. but, you know, often times, uh, the implementation was lacking. and that continues to be a major problem in the, in the region. i work in southeast asia where we see time and time again,

laws that are passed are regulations that are put in that there is no effective uh, implementation of, for instance. like if we look at thailand, thailand you know, is, is, has held up as a positive example in this report, but they've, they've criminalized forced labor uh, resulting from the, the push on human trafficking and fishing boats in the forest late run fishing boats. but that's not effectively enforced. you know, the, the laws on the books, but, you know, the police are trained, the local officials don't understand it. and as a result, it's sort of sitting on the shelf. there's just not the kind of implementation that needs it to, to address the kinds of forced labor that we see day in and day out across pilot. so if you let me ask you a version of the same question, i mean, do you see from your vantage point, governments that have actually changed their laws to try to in these practices? are they actually do enough to implement these laws? anything changing on the ground, and also let me ask you from your perspective,

is there a willingness to actually confront the root causes of slavery? and again, we go back to, yeah it's, i would agree with that. we'd see you completely back when this issue came up. one of the things that happened is people quitting these ash to, you know, to set out some new laws. and i've gotten a few think about these issues. i mean, passed section on the issue as an issue that tactics we men, women and guys talked about an issue that assets my grand clock. i briefly don't bring all of those policies together. we cons have increased freedom for those people. so even if we have why i absolutely advocate for strong measures when it comes to, you know, policy at all in the more than slavery. but the truth is, it's not too sexy. one, the ground is that's part of you see is not paid with the, you know, the police see, i don't want to, you know, women and go start type around police is that are they'd do cash or do you start

typing around places that are the access to, let's say a lot and you know, it's really hard for this issue to be dealt with the mess i load with. so documents back at implementation on the level it's whatever someone who's experiencing is very different because week it's not practical. sometimes to sit pottery, teach that's feed. i think one of the things that is really important about this report to report. so do you find like a framework that you know, activities, some people who are watching on that drone come start to using towards the government accountable for some of the things that can be put down in place? practically, we need to start somewhere and they think that's one by finding the language that i want to be it's. and you know that he put the gifts that tend to, by saying, what is the bad minimum? that's how government should be able to do for these groups and how can we be able to hold them accountable? and i feel like sometimes that's, that's what is missing the fact that most policies mid i kind of get me talk to

that one. i didn't pay my attention needs happens with people who don't have the information on what the point you see is or how to implement it. i think that's kind of improved to smoke one mind job. we need to 12, everyone different groups working together to be able to achieve that grace. the report calls on governments around the world to immediately take 5 key actions. what are those actions? those actions that they implement and create strong the laws on the dressing, forced labor in the private and public economy, sort of force, labor in supply chains and force labor happening at the hands of the state. part of this is relation to how we trade with other countries, i think. so he said it best mountain slavery can not be addressed in isolation and countries, creating low specific dom up and cybill human trafficking. it's a stop. but one of our steps is to integrate modern cyber responses into a few monetary and responses into how we deal with crises, responses that are already created. they need

a more than slavery lens. then we looked at the green economy, which by default when we built on false labor right now, if we do not implement transparency and accountability, human rights to diligence was across the supply chains from supply from solar panels, while the batteries and electric vehicles, we know that this vulnerability is massive is equally with a twin sold of civil rights, a being felt by people throughout the world. and migration systems are clearly fractured as fil spoke. to. we are looking at margaret workforces in them millions crossing the see coming to work in countries throughout the world. they are a fundamental, unimportant part of our economy and it's time that they are treated with the basic human rights and respect. but they deserve tied business systems from australia to singapore, to saudi arabia, a date to problematic for creating cycles of exploitation. lastly, we need to address laws that actually create further vulnerability to more than slavery, such as addressing legal marriage age, lifting the legal marriage, age to 18 is a really simple step. the countries can take losely when

a nation with repressive regimes, which of course, many governments do throughout the world through trade. we need to send to these conversations on human rights and transparency, especially when it comes to stay in post falls label. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there today. thanks so much to all of our guests. so if you attend a fill, robertson and grace forest and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website elders or a com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ag inside story. you can also do in the conversation on twitter or handle this as a inside story for me and how much room and the entire team here, bye for now, the the

atomic if to boost easy international that bolt is flaw from home to the people on this airplane, it's refuge from the st. battles and ask strikes ensued on starts every morning. continued till the night. we don't sleep the people they rescue a say they often have to make treacherous journeys to reach the ac off. be able to be to, to safety. so need a government workers and some citizens of wealthy and nations that have been through the house in this way. tens of thousands of people have been trying to leave cde on by land. others don't happen anywhere else to go a summer and he's coming here. second with you and now stuck here, you think don't have to required papers all the money on with travel. i have to go

3 to 6 chip or even today's, you can continue that jenny's employees on today that everyone here has enough ones left behind. no one knows except be safe. the land of the free. if you are black, are a criminal. you are someone who is suppose to shut up except what america gives you . the next episode of democracy may be exposed to racial conflicts, ethics, politics, and equality in the united states. they get upset if you say, paul linesman, because they want to focus on what we had a dream on al jazeera, a man who domain a to the reality politics for over 30 years. i'll just 0 will tells the extraordinary story of nobody else on whose device excel i loved the death of 2

king a day while the king was reading through the 1st to a switch where the wife tonight, who is prime minister 14 times until he's lucky eventually run out the rocky power broke on how to 0. the latest news as it breaks the tech spec, the 2nd house that's why has already started does it can't be here with details coverage for the whole. the members of the g. 9 gang are not far away from here, and they have been attacking this area from around the world. they haven't seen anything like this so far. since the conflict, again, we get a sense of how enormous the scale of this humanitarian crisis is the

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