to approve or reject the most progressive constitution ever proposed for any nation in history. yes or no voted no big picture. us was a question that goes into the very foundation of judy until the cause of its relationship with indigenous people in the midst of should positive on the jersey. their kids act in diplomacy and international involvement ment. ridge of type air. the once re election was monitored closely from washington to moscow. so how influential this are key internationally, and what can we expect in foreign policy during 31 3rd time? this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much in room president ridge of tied are the ones return to power inter key means the crucial player in the geo political arenas of europe and the middle east remains in place for another 5 years. analyst have described president air the ones foreign policy as representing both continuity and change. a flexible approach driven by pragmatism can at times, place them in a unique position. to kit has nato, a 2nd largest military. it is also the only member of the defense alliance that enjoys meaningful relations with russia. everyone help broker a deal between moscow and key to allow the shipment of grain from occupied ukrainian ports of hurting and global food crisis will be discussing how to key sees the world and how the world to cease or key a with our guess. and a few moments, but 1st, this report from chevron soak. turkey is pro active foreign policy has been a whole market present. friendship types are the ones to find an office. the

relations with the west of being rocky since and attempted to in 2016 or 2 on the leaves, his western partners fails to support him, prompting him to take a more independent path, displaced established alliances such as the countries membership of nice. oh, going to take this center going to for the next 5 years. problem is to work with all our strength should have to protect the glory and honor of 2 key to increase its reputation around the world. we guarantee the protection of our states on the integrity of our homeland and unconditional solver until foundation nato allies are hoping and grow will give the green light to sweetens bid to join the defense alliance before summer's in july. everyone has to late approving the application for months, no straining, relations with the us and nato allies. there's tension to with the us over turkey is cordial relations with russia. but everyone has also supplied keith with weapons

displaced the objections for moscow. the presidency is keeping channels open with bruton as vital use to media in the war in ukraine. a closer to home or one has promised to continue military involvement in syria. lots of vitamins because without them, the observers will find a more determinant, braver, more active in more compassionate to key which fights against terrorist organizations more decisively, both inside and outside of sports. there's a relentlessly pragmatic approach to foreign policy. has sometimes meant to shifting alliances. last year to key a reset relations with many of its regional foes, including study arabia, the united arab emirates, egypt, and armenia. and some arab nations reconcile with syria. it's likely to or to will speed up the normalization of relations with its southern neighbour shavone silk

for inside story the right for more on all this, let's bring in our guests and moscow is dimitri bondage political analyst at the civil yeah. and international media group based in the russian capital estoppel is it said a dinner out associate professor at the district university. she specializes in the political economy of islam and in brussels. is steven airliners the chief diplomatic correspondent in europe for the new york times a warm welcome to you all and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story. so that let me start with you today. now that present air to one has been re elected, should we expect continuity, as well as change when it comes to turkey is born policy as well. yes, i do expect to continue to large extent. after all, it's the same leader, the same party and add on has been branding himself and turkey as an actor. you

can talk to both the west and east, a natal member and the one hand, but can talk to put in on the other hand. is role as a mediator during the rush. are you creating war the to create the foundation of to grain quite door agreement, for instance, was a major international accomplishment for the one. and he presented to a such in domestic politics. and he was rewarded by his voters like selling drones to praying buying natural gas from russia and making both sides, except that it was a pin line to open add on. emphasize that he had those skills. so i do expect our dawn to continue presenting himself as an independent world leader promoting turkish interest. not anyone else's and highlight to refusal as a country that has a strong defense industry, an independent international position. these are the major will powers basic,

a rational actor, russia, outlook, you know, maximizing focus, interest rather than an ideology or any world powers. say the fact that the level of trouble show lou, he had served this foreign minister since 2014 present air to one just named tucker and feed on his intelligence chief as the new foreign minister. what does that mean and all this? well, how courtesy done is like you say, she former chief intelligence, she is known to be a rational actor, a pro western you could say, but also pro active, not a passive partner of the west peaceful relations with the westwood polluting trick . his interest were actively. he has to be big about promoting security along the syrian border. so we may expect his appointment as ad

one's commitment to his brother new policy in syria, which promotes security along the syrian border and allow some of just, you know, for g is to go back. rather than criticizing a search domestic policy or promoting political change in syria, so peace or dialogue which syria establish border security along the syrian border and fight terrorism. that's what hawkins done has been representing steve. and obviously we can't have this conversation without addressing nato early on. in the discussion, just a short while ago, nato secretary general and stilton bird called onto her key to drop it's opposition to sweden's accession to nato. i want to ask you about that because turkey approved finland succession to know in march. but where things stand right now when it comes to granting approval to sweden to joint as well. a lot of it is in mr. edwin's head

. the hope is in washington and brussels elsewhere, certainly in stockholm. but having been re elected by a good margin, having shown his nationalist credentials having i think with justice able to say that the sweepers new anti terrorism law, which went into effect june 1st, is in large part due to his pressure on sweden to crack down on curtis terrorism and others forms that mr. antoine will decide it's enough and will allow sweet and i mean, that's my view. i may be wrong again, i'm not inside his head, but i do think, given his economic troubles, which are severe he, he needs to come some things down elsewhere. and i, i suspect commending ties

a bit with nato will help whether it happens before the villainy a summit, which is like july, 10th or so or, or if it comes afterwards. i'm not sure i've been, or the 1 may want to go seek right up to the last minute even inside the don't the us itself. but i think turkey does want this f sixteens from the united states and updated kips, and the american congress has made a pretty clear that swedish approval of sweden. so nato is kind of a quick pro quote for that, steven. um, more longer term, i want to get your view point on what president they're the ones re election means for nato and also for western geo political goals because there are analysts out there that believe that area. one is a bit of a threat to cohesion. amongst the natal members, i don't think it's

a problem inside nato, especially to be honest, because nato is a military alliance that doesn't really concern himself much with issues of rule of law and press freedom then. and then those things for which are the one is quite rightly criticized a turkey plays a crucial role as miss them or else a very, very accurately controlling the black sea being a balance or between russia and, and even ukraine. and i wouldn't be surprised if we finally get to some kind of piece talks there that mr. or the one will be one of the mediators. he, after all, did host early piece talk strand, russia and ukraine, that didn't go very well. now with greece, i mean he, he made a lot of noise during the campaign about greece, but in fact, i think again,

given his economic issues, i think he's not looking for more trouble inside, inside nato. that's again, i may be wrong, but that's my sense of what is going to happen. dimitry, the relationship between turkey and russia is a complicated one. we know that a ticket has been performing this balancing act when it comes to russia and ukraine . so key it provides weapons to ukraine, but it also has been deepening its economic cooperation with russia. how does president vladimir putin view the re election of president air to want? what was the reaction in the russian media? and the amount of the expos community was pretty positive. russia was very cautious not to give any pretext, uh, to suspected or enrollment in the election. so, you know, these accusations were flying from that position, but i think it's, uh,

absolutely and, and on the sense that go, you know, the drugs are voting for the gun because they want to, there is no way he rushes and forces them to vote for him. and you are right, the relationship has been the wrong one. let me remind you that then 2015, the drug is a air force as have shut down the russian blame uh, near the syrian border. but uh right now looks like uh the most racial. no, a person that you the natal, i ruined you clear, you know, um nato in the west that large, i suppose to be support of the compromise, you know, support most of pluralism and democracy. but unfortunately, it is mr. gone, who shows flexibility, who shows ability to compromise. look with syria. aragon is a radio for peace. he uh, there are rumors that he may need uh, i missed the, missed the aside and have some sort of compromise with him. after all these years

of war. we can say to both the west keeps saying, awesome mazda go. uh, and the west is, uh, you know, preventing syria uh, from having normal economic stars with all the contents of the world when he needs it badly, you know, off to the civil war. no rush that supports this deal with mr. don to compromise. as for his team, i would say that this is a very much like garage. in fact, mister only gone has inside seems team. so i'm a liberal pro western politician. so, i mean, look at the biography over, i'm the, i've tried to do that or, you know, then, you mean, just throw different as he walked in the nato contingent in voice near, you know, he was with the nato commander, nathan in the same kind of decide about how gunky done. yes, he's a former intelligence chief, but before that he wasn't advise, you know, well straighten him but seemed to again she walked a with several regions institutions. so i think that was the media when it portrays

. so put in that are gone as isolate issues. do you know why just the, you radiation that one predictable and who don't want to have anything in the quote when with the west. this is simply not true. these people, i mean fortune until recently, i don't even know they were open to context with the west. it was the west that was the region and rejected in a new compromise. and basically needing the things through the terrible state where we see them. now in the me 3 standing in between roxanne, ukraine, lead me to let me ask you this, do you expect that your key will continue to play a leading diplomatic role between russia and ukraine? can we expect more shuttle diplomacy from president air to one going forward? so i hope so because the me started going, it looks like the likeliest candidate for these kinds of roll your right. the said that there are weapons being supplied from to a kid to ukraine, but these are private company is doing that by rex dollars, a private company. of course we have very sad about the fact that the drug is

government did not prevent these private companies from doing that. but this is of course, a far cry for all what, for example, greece, also a bike. yeah. the way you know that the government's provide a provide weapons. do that to that you great. yeah. not me. so are you think me started got it looks like a very likely kind of that for some kind of remediation role. and let me remind you that last year in march, in the, in the east unable rush and you create the very close to, to do some kind of a deal. it was more is johnson who came to the front, who, the best way that's a is it ask you to fight and deal with the big through of your great. and it was kim cool. basically seem to be uh, you know, destroying the deal with the bodies. johnson of course, in general, the new natal lines of ukrainians, victory, east policy, one. we must bush for it. that was very destructive. but that was not me. start the gospel. you can see the image and to facilitate the deal between russia and ukraine,

said i want to talk more specifically right now about your keys relationship with the us, which has been the fraud. it's been tense for a while. um us presidential biden said just a few days ago that he had spoken with president air, the one in a call and the president air. the one had repeated encore, a desire to buy at 16 fighter jets from the us. mr. biden reportedly told mr. err, dwanda, washington. once encore, it to drop, it's objection to sweden joining nato. so i want to ask you, is this what all this is going to hinge upon going forward? yes or no. i mean, the turkeys relations, which the united states went through a downturn. after the spring, particularly regarding syrian politics, are the one particularly felt let down by uh, by the usa is a policies in syria. and ever since you've seen some of the nation between turkey

and us, but then i still are gone, has never be actively promoting an anti best center agenda. and now we talk confidence, appointment as minister of foreign affairs. i think we will see a more professional in between the western target, particularly the you and your say enter key. how come to done is being known for his provost and policies like i mentioned before, the quite to rational after. so, um, so that's what i expect to see between usa and turkey. close relationships, but still i go on, we'll try to defend. um, an independent position is even nice. are you reacting there to what say that was saying, i'm going to let you jump in, but i also want to ask you 1st about this very tricky, a balancing act that present air to one is going to have to try and navigate when it comes to turkey is relationship with syria going forward,

specifically because syria has now been reinstated as a member to the error of league. so is that going to meet added pressure on mr. air to want to normalize relations with syria? well, i think he did, will. i don't forget, even in the campaign, one of the opposition charges against or the one was that he has there too many refugees as now from islamic solidarity. mr or the one welcome more than 4000000 syrian refugee use. and i think he would like to do a deal with mr. asa to send a big chunk of them back. it's become unpopular inside turkey. don't forget turkey actually occupies a chunk of northern serious. so i think 31 may want to try to do a deal with us about the border. i mean, clearly what used to are the one on is concentrating on is the british workers

party and it, syrian of affiliates a that's what worries them, that's what drives and so i think, you know, it's, he'll, he'll be pushed to deal with mr. assad, but who he tried to, we wanted to over throw, don't forget before, but i think in the end it's probably good for mr. air, the one because the things he wants out of syria, mr. all sudden might be able to get him. dimitri. um, how beneficial to russia is its financial relationship with turkey and also does president put and expect president or the want to turn away from the west more going forward. the power. 2 i mean, the way the world wants all the country is to turn away from a new one and go to the west. we want to cooperate with everyone. unfortunately, the relations with the west um were driven into

a dad and believe me not by russia by the other side. and i think that example of mr. don is a very good one. i mean, the west may accuse him of not being consequential, not trying to, uh, you know, almost mr. ross up until uh, the 2nd coming. but this is a big question. what is more moral, you know, to be consumed grand show and to continue to brush a country that went through a civil war. but economic sanctions, and by all sorts of pressure, or to make peace and to excuse yourself for certain mistakes which you made. i mean uh after that unexcused give us that would be for rush or for shooting down the plane in 2015 or we accept that uh these extra, you know, meet except that's a he is um. yep. all legit. so uh, i think uh what puts an expense from octagon is pragmatism. uh, turkey is a silver and country. it needs a roxanne gas. it needs uh, economic corporation with ross and all the contests. oh,

the former soviet union and turkeys vonner with a few countries that can sustain west and pressure the west is now. absolutely. well, you know, a force, you know, the congress to, to stop. it cannot be good for ration with russia to impose imposing the so the so called the so called secondary sanctions on them. a tricky is wrong with the fuel contests that can resist this pressure and i think we're getting cold so that the wouldn't be able to resist it. but there are no illusions mean rush away. i understand that turkey and this president, 1st of all, after their own interest, that's normal. what not the worst, but i'm going to say those why not with us are against us. those who are not against us, the role our partners, including their gun, including judge steven it looked like you want to jump in. go ahead and just simply to say that russia is isolated from and nato's support

for your crimes is a function of russia's invasion of a sovereign country. let's not forget that. and to try to pretend that or the wall and then mr. put in those positions are the same or is frankly a little disingenuous. put it, put it like that mr. ad one is very good. that's defining what he thinks is the turkish national interest, which is fine. and he's done it pretty well, but that includes being part of a nato alliance. and if he is dependent on russia, which he is for gas for hard currency, for economic ties, and don't forget turkey has not joined western sanctions against russia.

this is part of being an ally with a lot of interest spots to pretend that somehow 3rd one is being isolated. the way mister pool is being isolated. again, i would just say is uh, disingenuous dimitry. i see you raising your hand. i know you want to make a point, i will let you, but please keep in mind we are running out of time and i do want to get that question into said as well. okay, very short. i gave a very a shout when i, i think steve and me, we know each other since 1991 when we briefly met that most goals. so she knows the long story before a russia invaded through great into 1022. but also students himself has just said that the ticket book to buys a chunk goal for syrian territory. syria is a sovereign country. and let me remind you of the united states. okie supplies, some very important chunk of syrian territory with a lot of oil that remember calling,

mr. trump said i what the oil. so i think the united states is of the last country that can, if use right shall break and international said let me ask you about the economy because president eric the one named mmh. im check as the treasury and finance minister in his new cabinet shack had been highly regarded by investors when he served previously as the economy. chief, i want to ask you about if this appointment in particular marks of departure from these years of an orthodox economic policies under mister are the one. and also will this be a move that is welcomed by international investors? a well shake is known. i mean, he proves himself previously into cuz of politics. he has been impressed, successful, but he represents, as he mentioned orthodox economic policies. what i do on has been quite insistent

insisting on these low interest of an orthodox policies are doing, has been claiming that he could fight inflation, which no interest going against all uh, established economic principles. so many people wonder whether she said coming back means doing is actually finally willing to return to orthodox economic policies. the pressure shall check to do his magic, but the, you know, remain committed to on to docs, policies. well, on his victory speech, i don't just recently emphasize that he has no plan of deviating from his on orthodox policies. but then again, a pointing shake will make some people question. well, maybe if there will be some deviations. and depending on, well,

the extent of kids deviation, you may expect outcomes if there will be some i know, recent interest. many people dell that, that were range major consequences because the, if you want to return to orthodox economic policies, we need to major inc. interest rates, but just some people say, even if there will be modest increase interest rates, that coupled with 26 higher taishan can may be attract for an investment and can create a positive wipe that can stimulate economic normalization. again, instead of just very quickly, we have one minute left where does air to one's relationship with air of countries and more specifically with the wider middle east go from here as well. during the art of spring, we so took this form policy drifting away from the traditional provost and past war

2 more new or 2 in this direction. trying to influence middle east politics. assuming leadership of the loves, the middle east, old time are going to assemble down one because of probably the most syrian refugees. second feeling betrayed by the usa and 3rd economic difficulties. all of these pushed are the one towards a more horrible, rational line, b, c, r. do on trying to start, di, look again in with syria, in libya or saudi arabia into november, 8th, on the other hand. so, particularly regarding goals, countries, all these countries, i guess you could say conflicts are less important now then are the ones need of short term funding? all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thank you. so much to all of our guest dimitry bob which said at dinner up and stephen erlanger. thank you to

for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website down to 0 dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ag inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at a j inside story for me and how much i'm german, the whole team here. bye for now. the the . on charging the costs default present ship. yes. again, but why is the deb savings so contentious in the us? germany slip central recession, it could drag the rest of europe down,

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reception from italy's nationalist government. human rights watch cold, it's all these new immigration, little repressive. i didn't humane. it's intended to dissuade my gardens from coming here. it's not having any effect. moving to 45000 people have arrived in installations. the silence of this year. it was $12000.00 in the same period last year. the the crane says it's trip. so advancing tools to perceive city of last month, top to russia, said it stops the plane in offensive elsewhere in the don't ask region, the other them or kyle, this is all 0 live from doha. also coming up for pulls of most shelling in the russian town of belk. a role does pro ukrainian group students and incursion into

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