talk is a portion for legislation that will open up indigenous territory to commercial activities like my log in and farming the house of representatives has already approved a bill that establishes a timeframe for indigenous land claims. the senate has put that legislation on fast track and is set to vote on it soon. although the supreme court has the final word conservative, congressman believe they should be the ones to decide. i think regardless of the decision of the, the supreme court, it's important to have everything else that has to do with images. and that lands passing through congress or through the bills proposed by the executive branch. indigenous leaders inactive is see the weight. it's far too long. to have 2 rights recognized, hundreds of land claims on hold, and the lack of a decision will only increase the violence and disputed territories. monica,

and i guess i'll just 0 resilience the hello again. this is al jazeera and these are the headlines. a developing story this, our ukraine's president has made a surprise visit to areas flooded off to a dime was destroyed in the south of the country. from me is that an sky has accused agencies of failing to help and is appealed for an international efforts to help people trapped and russian occupied parts of the region. both cave and bosco advocates, each other as deliberately attacking the dam. meanwhile, the governor of castanan, southern ukraine says 600 square kilometers of that region underwater. thousands of residents have in order to evacuate the sudanese on manpower, military rapids support forces. i'm battling for control of a major weapons factory and southern cartoon. and that's caused a fire as a nearby fuel death or a several how to sing, associating

a to gem less. so instead of to is really for says, opened fire during rate and ramallah. and he also replied westbank. they started crowds of people who had gathered there to protest against the demolition of put frances is recovering from abdominal surgery and run the mask and says there were no complications about the punch. it is expected to stay in hospital for several days to see a tens of millions of people in canada and the northeastern united states. i've been told to stay indoors because of smoke from wild size. hold on for 100 dining and canada, and they've prompted air quality allows across several provinces and us states. well, those are the headlines as always, our website i'll just narrow down con, has the latest on or on top storage space. you and start the stream is up next. this is a region that is rapidly develop thing, but it's one also that is afflicted by conflicts political upheaval. some of those

we talk to elsewhere is saying that they sled update, hearing that other villages had been a talk. what we do in all just there is try to balance the stories, the good, the bad, the id tell. it says it was, and he's the people allow us into their lives, dignity into minus. he asked me to tell this story of the welcome to the stream. i'm heidi joe castro. it has been more than 4 years since wiki weeks, co founder julian massage was forcibly removed from the ecuadorian embassy in london and placed in a high security prison in the u. k. he has now fighting possible extradition to the united states. today we look at what's at stake if a song has convicted and the international movement to free him. but 1st, let's listen to a message that his wife stella shared with the stream. if join is extradited to

the united states, he faces an effective death sentence. he faces a 175 years. he has been put on trial under the espionage act. but for doing journalism, the most important journalism there could possibly be exposing the truth about practices of torture or crime. civilian killings, assassinations, squads in rock in afghanistan, the united states has also been legally spying on his legal meetings with his lawyers and even closet to assassinate to him. so obviously, julian will never face a fair trial in the united states, and he should never be sent to the country that taught it to kill him. joining us from melbourne, australia is john shift, and julian, a sanchez's father who is leading a campaign to free his son from new jersey. we have pulitzer prize winning journalist chris hedges, and here in washington dc, we have kathleen mcclellan, deputy director of the whistleblower and source protection program at expose facts

. and of course you can also be a part of this conversation. please share your thoughts or questions on our live youtube chat. and i wanted to thank our 3 guests for joining us for this very important conversation today. john, to start with you and your son. how is julian doing right now? the not the best of its getting on out into the 15th year of uh, cancellation of their suggestion year of uh uh, incarceration don't last maximum security prison. so as you can imagine, no, that's all good shot. in fact, is there any news on his health bill? you know, we keep that private, this is his health, isn't it? good. i know i just have to paint over and over again in 2019 the rest of the united nations rapids are from georgia. professor news

males have produced a report. after examining julian in jail with 2 specialists, doctors that have been the victim of psychological torture, of periods of 7 and a half years. and that torture that's ceaseless interminable court case as simply not stop. it continues to this day. in fact, last week the f b i on the road to uh uh, a novelist, uh hagan, who had written a book about julian, a seemingly reopening case of the, the road i want to use if i use that expression or at least the f b, i is seeking new evidence, it appears chris, i know you are very up to date on the latest in this investigation. and what is the f b i doing? what is the current status of this investigation as well as the s p i in the us

government has a fundamental problem. and that is the julian has never committed a crime. uh, i mean certainly that he's not committed the crimes that they have charged him with . and so as someone was follow this case from the beginning, we've seen what can only be described as a traditional lynching. and i have sat in the court room and one done, and then during covered followed it online. the fact, for instance, that the c i a through u. c. global, the spanish security firm in the ecuador, and embassy was filming not just fill me in. but even capturing all of his digital correspondence between him and his attorneys, a vis or rating attorney, client privilege means on that charge on that fact alone. that the, the, the case should be thrown out. and that is always been the fundamental problem. so we've, we've seen, of course, seen about this ice land. it's

a figure to lie in any admitted, i mean it's a kind of glass uh and it really stems from that foundational point that, uh, and remember on like daniel ellsberg. uh julian assange did not uh, take the documents that you they were provided just for the rack. the words to him by chelsea manny and i work for 15 years for the new york times. part of that time is investigative journalist. i obtained classified information and published it just like doing there's 00 difference, but of course the and data is driven by the volume of material and most important journalistic act of our generation. and that especially by the vendetta that is, be pushed by the c. i over the so called volt 7 leaks. but yeah, i think the reason they're, they're slipping around and continuing is because they don't really have

a case at. meanwhile, julian is perpetually still behind bars in the u. k. kathleen, what happens to him? do you predict if he is extradited to the united states as well, i think still is absolutely right. he would not be able to get a fair trial here. the espionage act is an arcane constitutionally questionable law intended to go after spies and it's been normalized as a way to prosecute people who disclose information to the public. and we've represented several people who've been prosecuted under the espionage act, including durham, was of lower daniel hale who's currently in prison in a communications management unit, which restricts almost all of his contact with the outside world. and he was tried in the same district that joined us on tribute, tried it, and the espionage act prosecutions are played with secrecy. and most importantly, there's no public interest defense. so none of our clients nor assange would be

able to claim that he was acting that they were acting in the public's interest when in fact all of them were. and there has been a very public campaign by us officials kathleen, to try to discredit julian massage from the beginning. some of that we heard from chris and john, even reports of a c i a effort or discussions at least to potentially kidnap and assassinate. aside from the ecuadorian embassy, how does that make it more difficult for him to receive a fair trial? i mean, it certainly makes it more difficult. the government in these cases has always put out a scathing indictment and called the person a traitor endangered troops on the field. chelsea manning was charged with eating the enemy, the most serious charges possible, are levied against defendants in order to make it difficult for them. certainly, but i think what makes it more difficult is the fact that the information,

the evidence is kept secret. the trials are placed with secrecy. daniel hills case was they would shut down the court room and even excluding, you know, his attorney from the public the trial at times. and it in none of these cases doesn't really matter why some of disclose the information. so that is a extremely problem matic. when you're talking about criminalizing journalistic activity, and by normalizing the prosecution of sources, a now going after assigned for publishing. the next step is going after anybody, because there's simply no limit un, under the law, as to who could be prosecuted. in fact, mr. hatches could be prosecuted for her for have disclosed information just as easily and under the law. and it's simply the government's distaste for looking like they are hurting the free press and not just based as waiting. we're seeing and we certainly will talk about it. i just want to throw in there very important distinction. because until julian was charged under the trumpet ministration,

those who were charged were whistleblower. people like daniel hale who i've actually gone up and visited, who uh, who released the drone papers droned documents by terry, aka and others. but this was now a whole new level by going after julian, they are targeting journalist rather than was of lower. so it's, for those of us who are journalists, i is scheme is a very, very ominous step, a dangerous precedent at least risky and earlier agnes calla mart. the secretary general of amnesty international told us that it is a u. k. government's obligation to release assange a doing yeah. such is facing charges still doing what you'll need to do all the time. publishing materials provided by your source materials switch of power from the state. who would like to keep the secret? those charges against him in the united states is possible next tradition. and these probable treatment in the us constituent on about human rights violations and

mission upside to price freedom. and there's also the question of whether the u. s. even has jurisdiction to prosecute a journalist who is a for national and operating in a foreign country. kathleen, i wonder, would this also set a dangerous precedent in sending the message that the u. s. department of justice can go after any foreign journalists based anywhere as long as their story is seen as a threat to national security. sure, i mean, i think it certainly set that precedent, but i think even even more importantly, it undermines the credibility of any nation whose trying are especially the united states. but it undermines the free press globally because it takes away the united states. is there anybody else as ability to say, look, a, my country's a secrets are important? and so no matter where you're reporting and no matter how corrupt the government

you're reporting on. if this prosecution is allowed to go forward, you will be at risk because it's going to in bold in every government to take their secrets and take the information they want kept secret, and prosecute journalists who try to publish it. and most of the revelations that the public needs to know about, especially the area of national security, are revelations that the government wants kept secret because they're about government misconduct. and that's what julian assigned worked with. the journal worked with the mainstream media to publish. he did journalism and so there's no distinction and there's no distinction between him and american reporters working overseas, reporting on other regimes there. well, let's look at one example of what sancha did publish. earlier this year. i was a 0 fault line, spoke to the brother of in the near nor l d. and a 22 year old iraq, you photo journalist who was killed by american soldiers and a 2007 helicopter attack. the video of that attack was released by wiki leaks,

and it debunked the pentagons initial claims that the civilians had been caught in cross fire. this is what is what his brother said. it was the much sure sure sure to die out of the me a kind of. 2 that them a few more will be the shoot the kind of a small to medium, small and few between the to the me been in john

that video that your son shared with the world is so difficult to watch this massacre unfold. but why did he believe it was so important for people to watch it any way? i can speak for julia and that you know, i can answer your questions because that's important because it records to war cry. so one, the which you didn't show is the good samaritans going driving their children to school and the wounded soldiers crawling along the gossip though. sorry, a wounded person. the me is called leo long regatta and they load him into the car to take him to hospital them as a consequence. their own murder by the pilot, and i have no guns, nothing. i have just children and children. when did,

and it is only is to all of us that the attitude, the soldiers to the ordinary iraqi people is running a murderous contempt. and so we all people have in the hot, so you know, for justice and the consequent service that we see to those people who commit these crimes, these war crimes one after the other to the other to the range and face justice. yeah. and we saw in that example from fault lines. how meaningful it was for the mirrors, brother to be able to see the truth about his brother's murder. does that make him proud of your son that julian made that possible? oh yes, a co sign. and pro julia this more particularly aj

everybody is all of this strength to ensure the continuity of war crimes stops its domain. in the right you, the brown university released the report. 4.6000000 bid in twenty's in the middle east, up to date brown university, so also released the report, its investigation, 38000000 refugees. what is the refugees? the person this community has been smashed, no recognition and destroyed the towns that destroyed the loss on edge. so they've become a refugee and seek. yeah, so cool. yeah, anywhere. currently working capital i want to measure. all right,

and i wanted to ask you e a because of these i've tried atrocities. and kathleen, has anyone actually been held accountable for these videos and other information that was publicized by wiki weeks? not, not to my knowledge. you know, the people that have been held most accountable for all of these war crimes which the government classifies, the government classifies it's more crimes. and so the only way to find out about them is from journalists and their sources. and most of the people that are been held accountable, the only person to go to prison related to the c i is now defunct, the torture program is john kerry, onto a client of ours who blew the whistle on it. daniel hale is in prison for a blowing the whistle on the drone program and none of the individual. busy is who perpetrated the drug program has been held accountable to my knowledge. many have been promoted within the national security intelligence community. but that's all

the more reason why this prosecution is so dangerous because we so desperately need journalism in this area we, we need this truth because it wouldn't have come out without the work of julian assigned. and without the work of the free press or the sources who are providing the information, all of that is necessary to have a healthy democracy. and you know, that's the argument of a growing number of world leaders who are calling for a sondors freedom. they include the australian prime minister, $48.00 members of us, truly as parliament, the german parliament, the president of argentina, the president of mexico, and the president of brazil. let's take a listen to let the silva of brazil and what is what you can use melisha you didn't feel a focus to us then we started to go to. so what was essential, is that a point them out that more than that got there? yeah, yeah, shifting

a fuzzy mazda probably best time in the most of my pleasure to keep you probably the best at the display of some judical degree, that the authors will cut up the book and been fuel folk up through us to and chris, we've heard from the silva but and perhaps even more notable is that a u. s. ally, australia, it's prime minister and now it bi partisan group of parliament numbers 0 asking for the u. k to, to release assange. do you think that this pressure coming from world leaders is moving the needle at all? you know, i think that this is a vicious campaign, a vengeance led by the c i a which is a state within its state like the us military industrial complex. i just want to say is somebody who spent 20 years overseas 7 of them in the middle east. i was the middle east bureau chief lending our times, the julian did what i define the,

the most important role a journal has to be and that is to give a voice to people who without us would not have a voice. it's what i try to do in gaza and erac and everywhere else. and of course, by exposing the war crimes and preemptive war, the very invasion of iraq was a work from. is it by exposing the reality? remember that the clara murder video was just one example of what happened almost daily in the streets of baghdad. and i speak to somebody who cover these conflicts. uh so it was a tiny glimpse of the daily weekly monthly yearly reality for people throughout the middle east. uh and, and none of it, you know, if you, if you follow the court case, it's completely apparent that, uh, not only is there no legitimate legal case against julian,

but they are twisting warping and ignoring basic legal precedent in order to get them. so i, we've got to fight this, but not just because of julian who i have met and no one the embassy and admire up on a personal level. but because of the consequences of this, it will absolutely shut down any ability to shine a light into the inner workings of power. and that is, it's intense. and you know, the pressure from the public is building as well and support of free. and julian assigned to including in our youtube chat, we have many p fall posting free assange release him now, so john blacken. ronnie hoff choice says we need more people like julian, the find the courage to fight all types of secrecy around the globe by shining light on it. all. just do the right thing and set him free. john, what is it life for you to hear people not only from world leaders,

but also just average citizens from around the world coming together to support your son? uh well, in a pretty good, i'm, in my country is trying to the entire political class. so the position prime interest of them, but statements strongly supporting the release of doing a search by the i percent of the strong population in the us. oh uh, demand julian be sent home to his family. so he brought it across the, i mean, it was the 1st person to understand that this was a global concern, whereas the an attorney. so i'm new york times back in the pentagon papers day. and 4 years ago he said that his match up is

a global concern and it's pre approve. and so with the support. yeah, of president prime interest is the only people who are holding out so to speak, those department of justice. they're sort of becoming more in scandal. well, usually mention john people that conte adjudicate justice anyway. meanwhile, john, you mention you are all as julian, a sondors family waiting for him to return home. and of course, his wife stella and their 2 sons are waiting for his return as well. here's one more segment from fault lines to in and i have 2 children. gabriel, who's 5 and a half, and max who's going to be for in a few weeks time. so max was a few weeks old when truman was arrested. the answer i could for my children's about why their father is in prison,

is he under some very powerful people who put him in prison. join is in prison because he did something right. not because he did anything wrong. kathleen, you represent clients like truly insomuch. do you think he has any chance, realistically of soon seeing freedom? and i think that we've seen in the past year, momentum building in a way that we have not seen in the past. you know, for, for nearly a decade and just so great i could work with them myself has been saying that this war on whistle blowers and sources is a factor away. and journalism in that this is the way it was going to go. and just in november, the 5 outlets that published the revelations with, with assigned, with wiki leaks, came out calling for his release. we just had 7 members of congress write a letter calling for his release. and 7 isn't all, but it is more than there's been before. and so, you know, defending, defending us on his journalism and calling for his release is becoming more

mainstream. yeah, i don't know what that means, but i think that, you know, we are seeing momentum in that direction in a way that i have, we have not seen in the past decade. and that's why we are keeping this discussion alive as well. john, in the brief last 30 seconds of our show, please tell me how, how much you want to see your son again in person, out of prison. oh, well you know, it's a of that sort of hybridity really take to uh, exemptions under the circumstances of the my daughter simmering is about 7. now whenever i go overseas, it's just as well, why don't you just get in a taxi and go to the guy on the shoulder and well, if it were only that equal to the guy very much, john. many are looking forward to that day. thank you. so much and i apologize we have to and our conversation for now because that is all the time we have for today . but thank you so much to our guests for joining us for this discussion. and you

can always find us online at stream dot l to 0 at dot com. thank you for watching. the is the conflict and to time contributes a correspondence or on the ground to report every angle. if the stories have been on good between the hours and the 6 needs are me for the on and off flight available pages say that a 100 i'm soothing is refugees. why you have to be registered under. what kind of

access does this food does not get to where it is needed, so it may not get there and all the challenges ahead is your stay without just the rest of the maintenance. different social media feels the amount for a curve. you're figure a controversial surgery to help people achieve it is on the rise. we've missed looking a certain way before we have kids with devastating consequences they do. so i don't care about their client. it says all about the money, salt lines, travelers, to miami, to investigate the rise and injuries and deaths related to postilion fucking if those doctors are this the price for fiction on a jersey to just after midnight on march 10th, 1945, devastating us a raise on tokyo beach firestone on a densely populated area of wooden and paper houses by sunrise more than a 100000 people. but that 70 years later,

those who survived seek recognition and compensation for the event that defined their lights only to find themselves still cost aside. witness paper sitting on a jersey to the ukraine's president visits communities flooded off to an agent down this destroyed $600.00 square. columbus has the underwater the color there and install the attain. this is l 0 life. and also coming to don's arrival sides baffles the control of a launch wesson's factory causing a major fire fuels f o.