to demolish the palestinians, death is re like, use is killing bolt. francis is recovering from a domino surgery in rome. the vatican says they were no complications, but the pontiff is expected to stay in hospital for several days. hours before being admitted, the head of the roman catholic church appeared in gooseberry steering his general audience and seemed to be the square c, $86.00 field co past property increasing health issues over the past year area in 2021. he underwent colon surgery. the headlines on algae 0, it is our regional security oil prices and human rights have dominated the agenda during a visit by the us secretary of state on to me blinking to saudi arabia. he met his saudi counterpart face of been for han in re add it to also discussed to you on

united states and saudi arabia, together with the gc are also focused on iraq, the stabilizing influence of the region, including its support for terrorism and violent militia groups, the seizure of tankers transiting international waters and nuclear escalation, united states continues to believe the diplomacy backed by economic pressure, by the turns and by strong defense cooperation, is the best way to counter these dangerous actions. we support efforts by saudi arabia to de escalate tension and stabilize relations. flights have been disrupted in the northeastern united states after a thick layer of smoke from wise fires in canada, blanket the region some inbound flies to both new york and philadelphia were hotels leaving thousands of passengers stranded at quality alerts have been issued in 15 us days because of the smoke, the ukraine and russia are accusing each other of hampering f as evacuate people from the flooded kasan region. shelling and casualties have been reported on both

sides. emergency teams are searching areas flooded to the nova. costco time was breached. on tuesday, ukraine surprises info to me is it. lensky has visited cassandra inspected occupation operations and visit injured people in hospital landscape. discuss getting clean water and other release supplies into the disaster. so and in france, at least 4 children and an adult has been injured in a knife, a tax 2 children are older on 3 years old. and 2 are in a life threatening condition. present the money in my coal has called the attack, an act of absolute cowardice. police say the attacker is a syrian refugee. local prosecutor says the attack does not appear to be tear related. a moment of silence was observed in the french problem in terms of those all the headlines as always, more use on our website that on to 0 dot com, the very latest. and all of our top stories on their top. mccrae will have and use our for you after the stream up next. stay with this frank assessments. quite

frankly, let's, let's dress the elephant in the room. the reason the south koreans want their own nuclear to terraces because they don't trust the us informed. opinions. fighting has basically lock this thing up so far that it is impossible virtually for somebody else 7 to the race at this point in depth analysis of the days headlines. so then k might have implemented the states, but there is no strong government to control and which means that this might affect other countries. inside story on al jazeera, the welcome to the stream. i'm highly jo, castro. it has been more than 4 years since wikileaks co founder julian massage, was forcibly removed from the ecuadorian embassy in london and placed in a high security prison in the u. k. he is now fighting possible extradition to the united states. today we look at what's at stake if

a sanchez convicted and the international move meant to free him. the 1st, let's listen to a message that his wife stella shared with the stream. if join is extradited to the united states, he faces an effective death sentence. he faces a 175 years. he has been put on trial under the espionage act. but for doing journalism not the most important journalism, there could possibly be exposing the truth about practices of torture or crime. civilian killings, assassinations, squads in rock. and i've got a son, the united states has also been illegally spying on his legal meetings with his lawyers and even posted to assassinate to him. so obviously, julian will never face a fair trial in the united states, and he should never be sent to the country the project to kill him. joining us from melbourne, australia is john shift, and julian, a sanchez's father who is leading a campaign to free his son from new jersey. we have pulitzer prize winning

journalist chris hedges, and here in washington dc, we have kathleen mcclellan, deputy director of the whistleblower and source protection program at expose facts . and of course you can also be a part of this conversation. please share your thoughts or questions on our live youtube chat. and i wanted to think or 3 guests for joining us for this very important conversation today. john, to start with you and your son. how is julian doing right now? the not the best of getting on out into the 15th year of the castle. rational suggestion took care of incarceration. don't last, maximum security prison. so as you can imagine, no, that's all good. shy. in fact, is there any news on his health of the bill? you know, we keep the private, this is his health isn't a good. i know i just have to paint over and over again in

2019 the rest of the united nations rapids are georgia professionals. males have produced a report after examining julian in jail with 2 specialists, doctors that have been the victim of psychological torture, of periods of 7 and a half years. and that torture that's ceaseless interminable court case as simply not stop. it continues to this day. in fact, last week the f b i on the road to uh uh, a novelist, uh hagan, who had written a book about julian, a seemingly reopening case of the, the road i want to use if i use that expression or at least the f b, i is thinking new evidence, it appears chris,

i know you are very up to date on the latest in this investigation. and what is the f b i doing? what is the current status of this investigation? as well as the epi, i, in the us government has a fundamental problem. and that is the julian has never committed a crime. uh, i mean, certainly that he's not committed the crimes that they have charged him with. and so as someone was follow this case from the beginning, we've seen what can only be described as a judicial lynching. and i have sat in the court room in london and then during covert and followed it on line. the fact, for instance, that the c i a through u. c. global, the spanish security firm in the ecuadorian embassy was filming not just fill me in, but even capturing all of his digital correspondence between him and his attorneys . a vista rating attorney client privilege means on that charge. a lot of that fact

alone that the, the, the case should be thrown out. and that is always been the fundamental problem. so we've, we've seen coercing about this icelandic, uh, figure uh to lie and then he admitted, i mean it's a kind of blast. uh, and it really stems from that foundational point that, uh, and remember on like daniel ellsberg. uh julian assange did not uh, take the documents so you they were provided us with all your racket, words to him by chelsea manny and i work for 15 years for the new york times. part of that time is investigative journalist. i obtained classified information and published it just like julia and there's 00 difference. but of course the and data is driven by the volume of material and most important journalistic act of our generation. and that, especially by the vendetta that is, be pushed by the c,

i over the so called volt 7 leaks. but yeah, i think the reason they're, they're slipping around and continuing is because they don't really have a case at. meanwhile, julian is perpetually still behind bars in the u. k. kathleen, what happens to him? do you predict if he is extradited to the united states as well, i think still is absolutely right. he would not be able to get a fair trial here. the espionage act is an arcane constitutionally questionable law intended to go after spies and it's been normalized as a way to prosecute people to disclose information to the public. and we've represented several people who've been prosecuted under the espionage act, including drawing was a board. daniel hale, who's currently in prison in a communications management unit, which restricts almost all of his contact with the outside world. and he was tried

in the same district that joined us on tribute dryden and the espionage act prosecutions are played with secrecy. and most importantly, there's no public interest defense. so none of our clients nor assange would be able to claim that he was acting that they were acting in the public's interest. when in fact all of them were. and there has been a very public campaign by us officials, kathleen, to try to discredit julian assange from the beginning. some of that we heard from chris and john, even reports of a c i a effort or discussions at least to potentially kidnap and assassinate. aside from the ecuadorian embassy, how does that make it more difficult for him to receive a fair trial? i mean, it certainly makes it more difficult. the government in these cases has always put out a scathing indictment and called the person a traitor endangered troops on the field. chelsea manning was charged with eating the enemy, the most serious charges possible,

are levied against defendants in order to make it difficult for them. certainly, but i think what makes it more difficult is the fact that the information, the evidence is kept secret. the trials are placed with secrecy. daniel hills case was they would shut down the court room and even excluding, you know, his attorney from the public trial at times. and it, in none of these cases doesn't really matter why someone disclose the information. so that is a extremely problematic when you're talking about criminalizing journalistic activity. and by normalizing the prosecution of sources, a now going after us on for publishing, the next step is going after anybody, because there's simply no limit un under the law as to who could be prosecuted. in fact, mr. hodges could be prosecuted for her for have disclosed information just as easily and under the law. and it's simply the government's distaste for looking like they are hurting the free press and not just based as waiting. we're seeing and we

certainly will talk about it. i just want to throw in there very important distinction. because until julian was charged under the trumpet ministration, those who were charged for a whistleblower people liked daniel hale was actually going up and visited a police. the drone papers droned documents by terry, aka and others, but this was now a whole new level by going after julian, they are targeting journalist rather than whistleblower. so it's for those of us who are journalist right is scheme is a very, very ominous step. a dangerous precedent at least risky and earlier, agnes telemark the secretary general of amnesty international, told us that it is the u. k. government's obligation to release assange a doing yeah. such is facing charges. so the way what you'll notice do all the time publishing materials provided by a source material or switch of power full state who would like to keep secret.

those challenges against him in the united states is possible next tradition. and these probable treatment in the us constituent all about human rights violations and mission upside to price freedom. and there's also the question of whether the us even has jurisdiction to prosecute a journalist who is a for national and operating in a foreign country. kathleen, i wonder, would this also set a dangerous president and it's sending the message that the u. s. department of justice can go after any foreign journalists based anywhere as long as their story is seen as a threat to national security. sure. i mean, i think it certainly set that precedent, but i think even even more importantly, it undermines the credibility of any nation whose trying are especially the united states. but it undermines the free press globally because it takes away the united

states. is there anybody else as ability to say, look, a, my country's a secrets are important? and so no matter where you're reporting and no matter how corrupt the government you're reporting on. if this prosecution is allowed to go forward, you will be at risk because it's going to in bold in every government to take their secrets and take the information. they weren't kept secret and prosecute journalists who try to publish it. and most of the revelations that the public needs to know about, especially the area of national security, are revelations that the government wants kept secret because they are about government misconduct. and that's what julian assigned worked with. the journal worked with the mainstream media to publish. he did journalism and so there's no distinction and there's no distinction between him and american reporters working overseas, reporting on other regimes there. well, let's look at one example of what sancha did publish. earlier this year. i was a 0 fault line, spoke to the brother of the near nor l. d. a 22 year old iraq,

you photo journalist who was killed by american soldiers and a 2007 helicopter attack. the video of that attack was released by wiki leaks, and it debunked the pentagons initial claims that the civilians had been caught in cross fire. this is what is what his brother said. i want the much of a shot shot refresher to die out of the kind of my. 2 not, i'm not sure what is going on because i don't

want to be in my office. you need me to the, to the been in john that video that your son shared with the world is so difficult to watch this massacre unfold. but why did he believe it was so important for people to watch it any way? i can speak for julian in that you know, way i can answer your questions because that's important. because the codes to all cry. so one, the which you didn't show is the good samaritans going driving their children to school and the wounded soldiers crawling along the gossip though, sorry, a wounded person that made is currently along regatta, and they load, he meant to the car to take him to hospital them as a consequence,

they're all murdered by the pilot and i have no guns, nothing. you know, i have just children in the car children when did, and it is only is to all of us that the attitude of the soldiers that to the ordinary iraqi people is run a murderous contempt. and so we all people have in the hot so young for justice and it's a consequent service that we see for those people who commit these crimes, these war crimes one after the other to the other to be a range and face justice. yeah. and we saw in that example from fault lines. how meaningful it was for the mirrors, brother to be able to see the truth about his brother's murder. does that make you

proud of your son that julian made that possible? oh yes, a co sign pro. during this move, particularly, i heard everybody with all of this strength to ensure the continuity for crimes stops which domain in the right you. the brown university released a book, 4600000 bid in twenty's in the middle east, up to date brown university. so also released its report, its investigation. 38000000 refugees. what is the refugees, a person this community has been smashed, no recognition and destroyed the towns of destroy the loss

on edge. so they've become a refugee and seek. yeah, so cool. yeah, anywhere. currently working capital, i want to measure. all right, and i wanted to ask you a because of these i'll try atrocities. and kathleen, has anyone actually been held accountable for these videos and other information that was publicized by wiki weeks? not, not to my knowledge, you know, the people that have been held most accountable for all of these war crimes which the government classifies. the government classifies it's more crimes. and so the only way to find out about them is from journalists and their sources. and most of the people that are been held accountable, the only person to go to prison related to the c i is now defunct, the torture program is john kerry, onto a client of ours who blew the whistle on it. daniel hale is in prison for a blowing the whistle on the drone program and none of the individual. busy who

perpetrated the drug program has been held accountable to my knowledge, many have been promoted within the national security intelligence community. but that's all the more reason why this prosecution is so dangerous because we so desperately need journalism in this area we, we need this truth because it wouldn't have come out without the work of julian assigned. and without the work of the free press or the sources who are providing the information, all of that is necessary to have a healthy democracy. and you know, that's the argument of a growing number of world leaders who are calling for a sondors freedom include the australian prime minister, 48 members of esther early as parliament, the german parliament, the president of argentine, uh, the president of mexico and the president of brazil, let's take a listen to let the silva of brazil and look at what you can use melisha. you didn't feel a focus to us. then we started to point to. so what was your sense of what is that

a point in that, that more than that got there? yeah, yeah, shifting a fuzzy mazda probably best time. eh, next? eh, what some of pleasure did you keep pretty funny, but that the display of some get a degree that they do, but what they don't get up the book, it didn't fuel folk up to us to and chris, we've heard from the silva, but perhaps even more notable is that a u. s. ally, australia, it's prime minister and now a bi partisan group of parliament numbers 0 asking for the u. k to, to release assange. do you think that this pressure coming from world leaders is moving the needle at all? you know, i think that this is a mysterious campaign, a vengeance led by the c. i a it, which is a state within its state like the us military industrial complex. i just want to

say is somebody who spent 20 years overseas 7 of them in the middle east. i was the middle east bell chief lending our times, the julian did what i define the, the most important role a journal has to be and that is to give a voice to people who without us would not have a voice. that's what i try to do in gaza and iraq and everywhere else. and of course, by exposing the war crimes and preemptive war, the very invasion of iraq was a work from. is it by exposing the reality? remember that the clara murder video was just one example of what happened almost daily in the streets of baghdad. and i speak of somebody who cover these conflicts. uh so it was a tiny glimpse of the daily weekly monthly yearly reality for people throughout the middle east. uh and, and none of it, you know, if you,

if you follow the court case, it's completely apparent that, uh, not only is there no legitimate legal case against julian, but they are twisting warping uh and ignoring basic legal precedent in order to get it. so i, we've got a fight this, but not just because of julian who i have met a know in the embassy and admire up on a personal level. but because of the consequences of this, it will absolutely shut down any ability to shine a light into the inner workings of power and that use it's intense. and you know, the pressure from the public is building as well and support of frame julian assigned to including in our youtube chat. we have many p fall posting free assange release him now. so john black in ronnie hoff choice says we need more people like julian, the find the courage to fight all types of secrecy around the globe by shining

light on it all. just do the right thing and set him free. john, what is it life for you to hear people not only from world leaders, but also just average citizens from around the world coming together to support your son? uh well, in a pretty good, i'm, in my country is trying to the entire political class. so the position prime interest of them, but statements strongly supporting the release of julian massage, 88 percent of the eastern population in los oh uh, demand julian been sent home to his family, so he brought it across the i mean it was the 1st person to understand that this was a global concern, whereas the an attorney. so um new york times back in the pentagon

papers day. and 4 years ago he said that this match up is a global concern and its pre proof. and so with the support. yeah, the president prime interest is the only people who are holding out so to speak to the department of justice. this sort of becoming more in scandal. well usually mention john, people that come to adjudicate justice anyway. meanwhile, john, you mention you are all as juliet saunders family waiting for him to return home, and of course his wife stella and their 2 sons are waiting for his return as well. here's one more segment from fault lines to in and i have 2 children. gabriel, who's 5 and a half, and max who's going to be for in

a few weeks time. so max was a few weeks old when truman was arrested. the answer i can for my children about why their father is in prison is see under some very powerful people who put him in prison. join is in prison because he did something right. not because he did anything wrong. kathleen, you represent clients like truly in san do you think he has any chance, realistically of soon seeing freedom? and i think that we've seen in the past year, momentum building in a way that we have not seen in the past. you know, for, for nearly a decade and just so great, i co work with them myself has been saying that this war on whistleblowers and sources is a better way on journalism in that this is the way it was going to go. and just in november, the 5 outlets that published the revelations with, with assigned, with wiki leaks, came out calling for his release. we just had 7 members of congress write

a letter calling for his release. and 7 isn't all, but it is more than there's been before. and so, you know, defending, defending us on his journalism and calling for his release is becoming more mainstream. i don't know what that means, but i think that, you know, we are seeing momentum in that direction in a way that i have, we have not seen in the past decade. and that's why we are keeping this discussion alive as well. john, in the brief last 30 seconds of our show, please tell me how, how much you want to see your son again in person, out of prison. oh, well, you know, so it's sort of how randy really take 2 exams and i'm just sick of chances. i'm the my daughter, samara is about 7 now whenever i drive is, is just as well. why don't you just get in a text and go to the guy on your end? well, if it were only that equal to the guy very much, john, many are looking forward to that day. thank you so much and i apologize we have to

and our conversation for now because that is all the time we have for today. but thank you so much to our guests for joining us for this discussion. and you can always find us online at streaming dot l to 0 at doc. com. thank you for watching the, the the,

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the, the, the hello until mccrae. this has been use our line from coming up in the next 60 minutes. smoke from hundreds of wildfires and canada blankets the skies in the northeast and you with leading to pines count of philadelphia being crowns. are you