the 1st episode of this series exposed the imperial origins of the drug trade. commerce was good, fire, fire was good for the former. so these things very much wants to go and tokens. passage from the far east to europe and the united states. guns need money, only money in these mountains is open drug trafficking, politics and power. the era of empires on the funding congress solutions. so confident, wide problems, ministers. finally, you states are working on how to deal with tens of thousands of people seeking a better life from the blog, but finding a consensus among a 27 members where be easy. so one of the challenges and can they reach a balance the benefits of those making? the often has this journey to europe. this is inside storage. the

program i remember on con ministers from over 27 members of the you have come together to try and agree on the best strategy to deal with rising migration back in 2015 europe attempted to find a last thing solution to the millions of people crowding at his board is because of the civil war in syria. a problem left unresolved, lead to tacky, to relax as bored as open the gates onto europe. still step. a thoughtful wood. a is. i'm the number of refugees and migrants heading to europe is rising rapidly. the international organization for migration, so, so far this year and the 55000 migraines and made the way to the concert and nearly 90 percent came by say more than 1200 people died on the journey when missing the top 5 countries. they are coming from off the ivory coast,

getting in your pocket on syria. i need you. well, funds is trying to reduce migration numbers, germany as well. k migraines. 1.3000000 of them last year were like most asylum seekers. now jim, the ones i tried to all 400000 skilled work is they ship. one important reason the german institute for economic research says immigration to the eu has increased its g d p by more than one percent every year. now just a clarification, before we move forward, i want to remind of you as on the panel, the distinct differences in terminology here. when we refer to refugees, we're talking about someone who's been forced to flee the country. a jew to persecution will violence and even natural disaster. and asylum seeker is a person who doesn't quite fit the strict criteria outlined by the united nations, but has applied for protection as a refugee and is waiting an outcome from immigration officials. and finally, the 10 migrant fits anybody who's simply choosing to leave the country in search of

a better job and a better life. for more on this, i'm joined by all guess in, sorry, if i go to dine, he was deputy director general fall operations of the international organization for migration environment. so i didn't under and then he followed the president of international affairs institute. a non profit thing. tax based in italy, and also in brussels level, the senior policy and advocacy officer for carry past your upon a consideration of $49.00 catholic relief organizations operating across europe. a will welcome to ewell i'd like to begin an sorry, a vi with regard to daniela's in many ways. in fact, from the old ways. uh, the audio is the front line agency when it comes to migration globally. now the $27.00 in the states are trying to come up with a strategy that is going to be incredibly difficult to make everybody happy. are you of the opinion that i get an agreement can be reached?

is well aware of thoughtful and we certainly welcome the progress and the commitment to regional cooperation and response stability sharing. and we know that the only way that the countries are going to derive the benefits of migration and mitigate the risk of the regular migration is with a regional packed for cooperation. so we, we remain hopeful for elanda in room do remain hopeful that we can get to an agreement. well, like to be able to meet. do i seem to be proved into the program, all my racial use in the country. so finally, between us,

the goal is to be sold today, the decision to be made to revise every nation which as we know how the we see. cuz you saw this being very oh cobra. the really the fall base to more of the seas in the distribution that we saw because a little bit. so you'll again a front line agency, you're dealing at the shop and of of many people coming in to your what would you like to see? what would you like the agreement to be as well? i mean we, we don't want to have an agreement that, that's old costs. and so to,

and not at the cost of the rights of migrants in refugees. so for us, we need to have most so do that with g along with the member state, but we also need to have better condition to welcome a refugee re dignity. we feel that the agreement that minds commodes tonight with increased boulder procedures in subsystem the condition and then we'll also increase the attention of people including children at the boulder. so for this is a very worrying development a go to the news. this could well be an agreement at all costs, and that's something that they live with. they say she wants to avoid, but if that is going to be agreement is going to be something that is going to make every country happy. germany, for example, um, is looking to increase migration it to the on the other hand front. so looking to try and reduce it, what does it look like? what does an agreement look like that for you? that actually allows you to be able to do your work, your job. so what we most said is critically important,

upholding, protecting, and fulfilling the human rights of migrants, refugees, asylum seekers is critically important. so it is therefore an that's a 3 that the agreement protects this in the way handles irregular migration. but let's also keep in mind that human civilization has been shaped by migration. migration is the solution for continued development in the region to address the critical labor shortages that countries have it. and that even with compromises, this can only be successfully achieved and solutions derived it through regional cooperation through i'm through solidarity. and so we hope and certainly as the you and migration and agency and with reference to the global compact for safe,

orderly and regular migration. that these not just the values and the principles but that all components of a comprehensive approach to migration and make it into the, into the agreement and right inside it on the well i got you. daniels is just shown us and told us as the most sensible approach, but when it comes to immigration particular when it comes to domestic politics, the conversation is very rarely sensible. it's around race, it's around and if i'd be emotions run high right wing politicians use it as a tool to gain popularity. is there a sensible conversation to be had in places like room in the u. k. in from, in germany about migration or does it always have to be, is very emotive conversation to the 6 the more shows

really many locations in countries. so my design to be able to determine whether to resolve this is something or what are we checking? we're to be the following, do that, we need to my house, we need to actually you're likely to leave with me my work because this is i'm going to by the same time. ready to be minus the migration the monitors, so we face value mod low. now across the ideal solution would be a saw meyer introduce joules cold between 18 and come to this to me. so as to

the sorry, no, truly possible. unfortunately, at some stage, we reached that stage because we need to know the issue maybe give me a call later over the does that kind of language survey you, we need migration in an orderly manner. we need it in a regular mind that does that make you think of offshore processing centers like things like that. you could government, for example, placing or when does a possible destination? does that make you worried? i mean, yes, we are worried that there is a lot of focus on the return on and on preventing people from arriving to you territory. so for us, we want to preserve access to, i know we want to make sure people can lodge a nice that in an application can have a fab process to identify the protection needs. and number of all we also want to

have safe and rigor lockbox. we, for people in of protection and also for other type of migration include the labor migration and pharmacy when the cation, because the program we have to date is that many people are supposed to take on dentures. journey to, to see crime stance and dying. i see every year, only in 2023 more than 1000 people die in the may the trend. see because of the lack of safe access to europe. so this is a big concern, of course, and a lot of lives i being lost and it's a saturday uh got you daniels, a 1000 people have died at sea is our guest is just pointed out, but that's not changing anybody's minds. in fact, we take the u. k for example, which isn't parts of the european union, but still part the compensation. um there is in the hard line attitude when it comes to the boats as they call them. this is happening in italy as well. you'll fighting an uphill battle when it comes to trying to change people's minds. what's

the strategy for you guys? i want to go back to the words you used before, which is i'm sensible. now it's what we have seen is that people take in regular roots, people take risks when they do not have options. the regular pathways for labor mobility provide those options and in fact i o. n has continues to receive requests from many countries on how to expand regular pathways, how to get people options for how to migrate, to reduce irregular movements to reduce the risk, to reduce smuggling and reduce traffic. but of course, they're also very focused on returns and countries and do need

a way to return people who have gone through the process. and there is no longer able to or entitled to stay in the country. but it cannot be a single linear approach and needs to be comprehensive because you're not going to get to achieving the full benefits of migration. you're not going to get to winning wind solutions solely focused on returns. when at the same time, you need my friends a for the, for the economies to grow, unless i also recognize that for the countries of origin with remittances. this is the key driver for, for development in the countries of origin. and that's also the key drivers for economic growth in the countries of destination. so it's a sensible conversation about how we have these when, when solutions the also ensure the best outcomes for the migrants. um

then, so uh fund or would you agree that the current process of migrating into europe is actually phenomenally complicated. it's very expensive and it's actually often the people that need it the most are often just bamboozled by the amount of paperwork they need to do. but there's no way you're up streams line that streamlines that processes, that it is the, the, your genes while they're in police report line to see for the people that tried to match for thanks to the gene we chose, firestick the beginning of a fee to use and then you come to your door reset the machine for i don't know,

it is not easy to distinguish between people in the hall. the give this distinction in mind if you want to be able to manage to defend all my. ringback roles and it's not the storm thing when he comes in us, you know, countries in your and the federal step that she'd be to for all the wow, you know, i should be able to better control center holders. a say it's a goal. she came to me more to the as i said before, allows people to do reading these conversations. i the, the we definitely need more. busy from outside to the so

that consists of the con, the the last the size a little bit though we are looking at now a conversation that is taking place within the european union. things do have to change. so this is where the conversation is currently at. if you are in this meeting and they said to you, okay, we're going to put some old procedures into place. we can try and make it slightly easier, but we're going to limit migration significantly. legal migration, asylum seekers. would that be good enough for you, or do you think that something that you call and compromise them? i mean, no, of course, because it's an international legal obligation to grant protection to people in need of protection and hold. why do you have more than 100000000 people that leave

possibly in his place, you to come leg crates in? so, i mean, we should not forget that this is an international obligation and that you cannot, you know, put the cap on the number of people that can arrive to, to a country. and if we look at the figure of we see that is actually the manageable, the number arrived both to europe. so i mean, it's the question of policy kind of we to punch in place enough of funding to will come with a dignified reception condition before arriving instead of investing all of these funding and building rules and fences. so it's the question of putting together choices and one of the months if i, if i were in, in today's meeting with the minister that i would want to promote and, and see on the table is to have more relocation mechanism or to a lot of power distribution of people, according to you to avoid that everyone in the wind continued sadly with a $6.00, an overcrowded shelters. and the people can be of these,

these birds across different countries to have more so sorry, that would be and responsibility between the trends. days i would also want to have a 5, maybe we need to get you enrolled into the administrative procedure because it creates a lot of burden on people to navigate. a huge me complicated system which is aimed at preventing people from accessing their rights and protection. a, a got you daniels we're looking at now. and the idea that there is an international obligation to aside and see because in particular, but to legal migration purposes for purposes as well. but people are discussing account like a would that be something that you would accept if the migration system go back to, to us, you know, and i keep them to slicing when, when solutions they are not going to achieve the labor

at the late the, the, my credit labor, the quantity that they need to drive and support their um, economic development. so in the way a cap is probably more a political tool rather than a migratory tool. and for the you and arguing that they send on migration, we are looking at how to support countries with a range of tools that enable them a cheese that they can use migration to achieve their um, their development goals, their economic growth goals, their society, society needs so that is what certainly from the, from my organization,

what the advocacy and priority would be and the technical support that we, that we provide. so none of those of them inside the old politics is local. but right now you've got 27 member states trying to come up with a political solution to this uh, the issue of migration. we've already talked about the fact that we're not going to get to a, a one size fits all solution. but what's the, what's the bottom line for you? what's the solution that works for everybody? do you think the, the decision today was discussing the cost to the cc, matt heaters and you have to change the commission is to find a compromise between the 2. like to see more sharing more distribution

of their secret and the gains and even more we used to do to extreme diseases maybe possible. the compromises is being proposed. and the, you know, i know is the, the 5, the cost, the fee to each the emails i should call you financially. but the, the trips that allows you, cuz i don't know why you're going to be a solution. you're really

doing the most of the seekers, the saw, the issue all the way, the grid, all he's probably the law all the define and call you the use. sorry. let me bring in, let me bring and la la, hey, you've made some very interesting points that look, that has to be a framework for all of this you call and have people coming in particular through a legal means risk getting that lives across a board, a part that needs to be a way of doing this, that isn't a motive, isn't a problem. what regulatory framework would you think works, that is by fed on people asylum seeking people looking for a legal way, legal migration. but that actually fulfills international obligations because what

phone number is saying is that the actually perhaps needs to be a compromise. i mean 1st that some rules in place size not like if we are in the mines land. so they are currently is island rules to in the cause the you but that they are not being appropriately implemented. and often they disregards the rights of free fiji. so this is 11 thinking both into highlights so that even if there is no agreement to date still, i mean there is a framework into play that we can better implement to the benefit of the rights of the people regarding a more of the bearer of quitting book, i think for us it's important to called for more reset to men. so basically, to know people that are being stuck in recruitment, capital outside of the u for many years to be able to, to, to bring the, to come regularly to europe and to start a new life. uh, we've had to rebuild the solution. we've seen solution prospect and not to,

to being close to embark on even with our in the interest rates. so this is the need for more resets a month. it's also a question of going to go to somebody that routine with countries outside of europe, that the owner and he wouldn't coming a lot of refugee because we should not forget that more than 80 percent of the roles refugee hosted actually in developing countries another year or another way is to issue a more human trend visa for people in need of protection so that they can take a plain travel safely and then receive uh, i got them in europe. so these are 2 things uh, that uh, carries as your findings member is advocating for. to avoid this, i'd see, for instance, a foot. and a lot of this began in 2015 when turkey allowed many syrian migrants that was holding in his territory to enter into europe and then shot those voters as the political will. and on crow, dictated. this isn't just about the european union. this is about an international way of trying to deal with all of this. are you confident that if we get an

agreement in the you that can lead to an international agreement that strong the one that we have right now? so the way that the mall was extremely the tricky. you were not a countries the subscriber to jump sufficient, which is made to that inside the outside. you have a good in terms of the people, the discussions because use more of the neighborhood. gotcha. so when we do all, we tend to send you the problem. the problem is a nissan. now, you know,

the way to be able to do the, the, this is something you would need a, it's tall, you know, like the wow. you said sorry was your interest in it. busy all these in the country that looking at the record to read and she's in a position to set forgotten because the install sufficiently where it's gone. i mean, i don't know if she showed me. sorry besides honda or sorry, we're running out of time to want to bring a go to daniel's in. hey,

i'll go to daniels often listening to everything that dondo said. do you still think there is in your words a win win solution to all of this? i am the absolutely, and he didn't make the point about it not being a european issue and that it's global. and i just want to remind everyone that we have to global agreements the global compact on refugees and the global compact on migration that actually provide comprehensive tools to member states that work for member states. and that worked for the my grandson, refugees themselves. so the tools are there that evidence is there. what we need is the political commitment. i want to cycle, i guess i got you daniels layla by the end of the 9 to natalie at federal g. i don't want to thank you as well for watching. now you can see the program again, any time by visiting all websites out, is there

a dot com for further discussion goes well facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter handle is that idea inside story for me and wrong. com. and the whole thing has 5. now the, the the is the conflict and to time contributes a correspondence or on the ground to record every angle. if the stories have been on good between the hours and the 6 needs, are me available, be

a just to say that a 100 i'm suiting this refugee is why you have to be registered under what kind of access pay this this food does not get to where it is needed, so it may not get there. and the challenge ahead is your stay without your benefits to discharge. he was prime, ministering, why she now opted to students in general as malaysia's talk to him when one east investigates on how to 0. getting to ideas, the friend who public his loan for claims which is 4 days more than friends in a full pot series, the big picture takes and in depth ness france insight episode one on l to sierra

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some international space station capture images of smoke from wild fires burning in canada. and we.