piece and they were warnings that the grease stuff the week by mid week. so wednesday is going to be a little bit cooler. i think in places like jeremy buildings down to 23. the increasing cloud he prompts and he had 20 degrees. long as does 26 foot paris, most of frogs works the high twenty's all the like i said, he's still halted cool. still in most of north africa. the attending thing here is where the big show is all they've been very heavy recently. nigeria, but i think by tuesday and wednesday we'll be talking about is found office the got to be the 1st episode of this series expose the imperial origins of the drug trade. commerce was fire, fire was good for the former. so these things very much wanted. and opiates passage from the far east to europe and the united states. guns need money. only money in these mountains is open drug trafficking,

politics and power. the era of empires on the fighting and sudan has led to a new wave of violence and dar for thousands of floods and neighboring chad to escape attacks by malicious. and there are fears this could reignite tribal tensions in the region. so what's fueling this pilots? this is inside storage, the hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much in june. so the and the army and paramilitary rapid support forces have been fighting for nearly 2 months now. millions of people have been affected, but this latest battle is now threatening to reignite decades old tensions in the western dar 4 region. doctors without borders say, hundreds of civilians have been killed or since violence broke out an april. the

battle began around the capitals up to him, but his sense spread so many areas across the country, therefore has become one of its main battle grounds. people in the region say, various militias are targeting civilians and some have a warrant of massacres. thousands of people have been crossing into neighboring chad to escape the violets. we'll get to our guests in a moment, but 1st this update from st as robbie who is that a refugee camp on the chat suit and border whenever we return to places like this to these kinds of impromptu camps where people are arriving from west r for primarily from l janina, one thing becomes very clear, the conflict is not becoming smaller, it is becoming bigger because the number of people at places like this simply continues to grow more and more people arrive into these kinds of conditions. they are living out in the open expose to the elements. it is incredibly hot and sunny now with, with very, very start conditions overhead. but just hours ago,

just last night there was a thunderstorm and all of these people had to sleep through that. so the situation here is dire, the circumstances require immediate attention. these people need immediate medical attention. they need water, they need food. and they are keen to say that they need that help as soon as possible from anyone who can give it, but something that they are also very quick to bring up a very immediately after the idea of self preservation. here they are concerned for those that are left behind, they want to speak to us, they want to speak to whoever comes, they want to tell their story and what they keep saying is that they, despite these terrible conditions, they consider themselves the lucky ones. because at least they are not still in elgin, and at least they are not still under constant attack. bite malicious, they say they are worried for their friends and relatives. they described terrible scenes, many of the dead people that continue to die on a daily basis. can not be buried for 2,

at least 2 very important reasons. the people that are there cannot safely bring their bodies to bury them anywhere. and so they are storing them mostly in their own homes. the dead remain in their own homes. and the other problem that we've heard is that people don't have enough to eat, they simply don't have enough energy to dig the graves to put the people in. so incredibly difficult circumstances in elgin are here in audrey on the border at these refugee camps. and everyone we speak to says the same thing. they want the international community to intervene, if necessary, by force, the same bus driver in audrey eastern chad for inside story. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guests now in london. may assume the co director of the sudan research group at the london school of hygiene and trump, of, of medicine and here, and they'll have a big we'll have a lesson the, a former student needs diplomat. and now a professor of politics at the door institute for graduate studies,

a warm welcome to you both. thanks for joining us today on inside story. i do have, let me start with you today. so the conflict began around how to them the country's capital, but fighting has spread too many parts of the country. why has dar for become one of the main battle grant? i think i for was the starting point for the mid issue, which is now to the rising cost to uh the, uh and before that it was, uh, there was conflict from the ninety's. unfortunately. uh, rather than restricted very therefore money g, my former machine uh between uh uh, so called out of tribes. uh, what's your corporate key to many magazines from shed and the original uh, inhabitants are forced to induct forwarded back to the salary and the detention

and escalated when the water stops street in 2002. and when the government is recruited, the so called ginger, which was more or less the roll out of 5 factors. let's, let's go on to that of the small no magic site just who included also a large number of and then she gave me each uh, what if you guys had it has been happening in that forward now is that when that issue uh, uh, the, the uh, the new issue uh from it t has talked to some, some of these conflicts that during the past few years, i think from 19, uh i'm to 2020 uh the some

of the, uh, the a component of the treasure then. so for what stuff for i've been engaged in a tax on that it should have been proficient bad. i mean to himself, when to that for allegedly to try to provide to things down. but uh, most people say he has been uh uh, secret to supporting the uh, the me to show that uh, who have increased the power during the transition and a couple of attempt washington and who are um and were just barely hyper weapons. uh which uh, preparation to, to not have a go equivalent to uh, so i see now we just what's happening the spectrum uh, maybe the dimness of the community share in what's in that for wanted

to impose federal authority for a fee of that says people in the in that form, i think the issue has we try to arise a game and this is way of what the receipt of may. so when i saw you nodding along just some of what i've been, what have was saying there and it looked like you wanted to jump in, so please go ahead. i, um, we work with uh, community research as across us it. so don, and right at the beginning of this conflict, what has come across from our colleagues, and i'm to know it's quite vivid and speaks to it that they will have was saying. so if i can put it in their words, what they say about the situation there is to be honest, the situation is catastrophic. and beyond description to them. the fact that jeanine and many of the mix little places that are for a bit of a black box. but what we do know about the impact is that not

only is it wide reaching and an intense, but it is also a compounded by the history of ethnic conflicts. and therefore, it speaks very much of a genocidal playbook that has just played itself out. once more and that's who meditation researches we studied conflict the world over and to be honest, we haven't seen anything like this before. this is the in essence, nothing short of the really a renewed genocidal campaign. unfortunately. and perhaps the greater impact under cover for all right. let's now bring in half as much. i'm a director of justice advocate, sudan. i human and civil rights research institute based and sudan. how does um, how much concern is there right now that decades old tribal tensions could be re ignited in dar 4 and, and what would that mean going forward? yeah, the problem is we, well actually a back to 2000 on city,

2004 in terms of the level of violence and the violence of actually targeting people according to a try. but and, and this is a deep and it's very serious this time because we don't have a function and go into something. i think that maybe we should like support things that i think to close the maximum home on damage to uh uh, some drive seeing some people in were in west bedford and actually the very dangerous division of the country is no government to protect the unders towards in these terms of a lot of things and, and, and, and definitely i'll do what have is what is happening in dar for right now. kind of a continuation of the word that broke out there in 2003 and ended in 2020 uh, well okay. yeah, seen that since say these are the same, the box, these items are engaged, but i think what is different p as the from the half as and you know, to the stream and that in the past the,

the fact was between atlas um, oops, uh, what's happening got you can what's in the, for these middle experience i'd be targeted to uh, buy a, the, uh, the outer safe which was supposed was ip westwood the uh, in the last few years as a kind of fiction force which is supposed to be the police and the military that and uh, issues confronting and um, people must not getting them in. i mean, i came to something to get, get my, my, i think this is an important indication that probably the guy, the of the after committee which has like too much individuals do not seem to at

this time the 3 of the problem in and she got at the moment, the problem is that you have digital condition, which uh, nothing can seems to uh, to be dictated from uh, doing whatever its been want. like uh here getting people taking the part to the fact that all she couldn't, i think the people continue to homes, hospitals stopping people in the world. people disappear like that. and the measure can be there. seems just think that uh by uh, what is needed is for the people who are affecting this militia to stop fight, to get the whole thing definitely that happens the new show will be tamed and just sit down and be nice people. i think the quote is probably need it is more a fire power. hm. uh i think we should quote for it. i'm not sure that i kind of

mention in within that for the moment. otherwise it would become daunting during the se. mesa and you were speaking earlier about what you call the catastrophic situation facing a facing door for. and i want to ask you more specifically about just how dire the humanitarian situation is there. so and then my colleagues weren't, and i quote, they say if this situation continues in argentina, it will be worse than you can imagine. they say that it will be worse than the mass of the cleansing this past because there are multiple ways that you can die directly viable it. and then treated injury or chronic disease stuck in a boarding house that you cannot leave or of thirst even if you go out to get the water that you need to survive, you get killed. they are very and so i take that urgent and large

scale humanitarian intervention is what is needed to save what is left half of you heard there may soon talking about engineering specifically and, and i want to ask you about that because if we're looking at what's going on in, in door for, it seems like the violence and engineering has started out as sort of an offshoot of the wider war in sudan. but, but a lot of age groups are now saying that it seems to become a war in its own right. why is urgent in such a hot spot in the conflict right now? yeah, because because it is um, um, well configured. uh, based on the type of uh, district line. i'm also at the same time, land and resources and that thing and that i've had music going on for them. you know, a fighting around the moon on a new scenario to just choose amino acids. and also the new settings to actually came on to go over the land of the indian. is that 40 from the city for them as

much that lead to another tribes. and the main reason for that, i think, is korea, it's easiest including what was all as tim says to the current thing, because there are these people that are the displaced as too many id piece come on alternative for using set on the and on this militia that are move up to the phone so that also that going from neighboring country directly orchestra to compton, based on it's based on fiber line until i also took off. it's a good deal. i think even people are talking about changing even the name of, of what's that 4 different name just that the, the, the, the way the world for our division. and i think that the orchestra that i've been going on in been going on for a very long time on that and is curious because of the, the, the ongoing warning for one that is actually a few days more, i'm acting without having interaction. are you doing an intervention in depth so um,

just keeping to enforce wrong or the, i don't think we'll see any piece and definitely, and it's going to be even worse, worse than maybe i don't want to executive, but it might be another one to all right, so, so i want to take a step back for a moment, as we mentioned, the fighting and sudan risks re igniting a decades old conflict. and the west turned off for region in 2003 answer, communal violence began when the sudanese government deployed the so called general weed militia to put down an uprising by travel groups, hundreds of thousands of people were killed. the you in says 2500000 people were displaced. the conflict ended in 2020, but violent disputes between tribes sparked by land and access to water continue. the leader of the rapids board forces, how many come down the low roads, through the ranks of the jungle. we now i don't have, let me ask you, as we mentioned there, the conflict may have ended in 2020, but violent disputes between tribes, overland, and access. to water continue, why has that continued do i think they,

the fighting between the groups that for hug, down for quite a while, that wasn't going on. i think the, the, the new to figuration. especially in the less than that for that. why uh, in the 2000 in the between 2000 until 2015 . uh, the main issues uh, where a small number where under control of the army. uh to all the security agents has to be more precise. and the number is very small. in the past, uh for 5 years. uh, the number i gave you this. yeah, was given a 4 month uh uh, does ignition as of the support forces, which was fairly sparking security uh operates,

i suddenly became part of the army. and then it became independent of the army and it was given heavy where punch or should do you happen to pass? it was given a kind of official back to where it is not will officially. uh, a government falls in uh, in less than that for so it is supposed to be the protective uh, agency of the people that fucked as happy before i told him, cuz now kendral is acting on his own account. no. the street. and i think this is, this is the thing that we have we, i didn't know that because in the past or 5 years. mm. let me try to either put a use and i know with the weekend and we have these uh, these kind of samuel official, but we're all good minutes. yeah. i think and they, these people have the agenda that i've been, that has been difficult with the end of them. suddenly i'm throwing them out. and i

think this is, this is way of the one that example has, has, or may soon as thousands of people have been crossing into a, bring chad to escape the violence for those who are attempting to flee to chat. how difficult and how dangerous is that journey? i will quote my colleagues again in this they said to try to move to a place of safety across the border within. so don is a quote, a suicide mission. it is incredibly difficult. and so many people to manage to get out, but it's a great cost many to stay. and because of the history of the conflict in places like come to nina, the concentrate, the populations tend to be concentrated in highly populated residential residential areas which are deemed to be safe front of the beginning of this conflict. those weren't able to leave into large of ex student dormitories to try that shelter. and those were shelves. since then,

there's an estimated 2200000 internally displaced with an engineering and living in open air with no shelter, no safety. and the quote again, they say every one of these heavily populated neighborhoods, when the militia enter, they burn it down to the ground, they rob and pillage and they killed, especially those were an un unable to run the elderly, handicapped, a, and the blind. and we've had from our colleagues and reports of violence against women, especially gender, sexual based violence in terms of rate. again, the decision to leave is difficult in front of the decision to stay. sometimes not a decision you just have to stay is definitely and may soon, i just want to follow up with you to ask about the kind of access that humanitarian groups have been able to to get. i mean, is that just not happening right now?

is there any hope that there could be a humanitarian core door setup or that humanitarian actors would be able to access the people who need aid and, and medical help the most? or i can summarize the mentor access and we're one word at the moment, which is not. there is no humanitarian access into engineering that even within the, within the city itself, just moving about to provide support for members of your own community can be dudley. and so much of the response that is being mounted is very much a localized community lead effort. and it is extremely hampered by the security situation. you know, colleagues describe scenes of just stepping out of their house, putting out a handout or a foot out and being shut up by snipers. so what they're having to do and also help workers are being targeted. what they're having to do in some places is operate what they call secret neighborhood clinics. the,

the clinics are hidden from the outside that are only available to those who know how to get there and, and are close to it. this is of course, not feeling in the void in any way. so of course we've asked what is it that you need? and they said what we need quickly and urgently security. and provision of the humanitarian corridor is to provide basic health services to provide establish displace people comes with full services to those folks. but the reality is that we don't know when that came out to try and corridor is going to be open to them and not the obvious should be the focus, right? we need to push for that. there is no way around it so long as people can step outside of their houses. no one is safe, not inside engineering and coming in. so when we want to or is inability to map those 1st responders to understand who is doing what's where and calling really for the humanitarian health community to change talking to change tact quickly, we need to adjust to the situation and support those 1st responders who are already

on the ground by any means necessary. and i think in that case they can take example from civil society. they ask for groups like this. we was union groups in the u. k. who have them all the lies to support community leather and steps and clicks like lead and head fuss, providing whatever they can from a distance to mobilize those health cutters that are inside the city and to get them through until those military and quarters are open. half of how much concern is there right now about unrest in western dar for the stabilizing neighboring countries. in particular, chad, for example, the definitely the magnitude of displacement and people actually move on to, to, to check the surf. i've no ability to provide some support because the infrastructure and chinese is, is very poor. i'm, i'm, and they're tied into or 70 hesitated clearly that they are not able to provide the

need to support for these people on, on the, i've seen that clear. and if the confident continue with the same live it and i think we would see more people fleeing to the child then center last week and discontinue the service. i wrote the student, they have what security problems they help, you know it problems and that's going to come pretty good solution. give you more. i think that's what i'm saying is we really need a, even with that in protection for just people to be dealing with the own with it. i just didn't allow access to it. he went there and work work also to protect them because the married program is now protection because most of the agencies working on what that in to the, the styles because that they can not secure the new do to do access to have access to, to get to these people, i think what do we need? i need it again. if we want to, i please to go to 10. the, the disappointment,

to some extent is to have forced which provide protection for going with and i would guess i'm also like that visit if used because it in is coming on people out . i'm going to be up front and of course that isn't appropriate. ok. and what is a problem for you is a problem and then we would drop it is due to displacement and also rain because that it is just going to stop. and then it's going to complicate the problem even more arrogant action is needed from that dimension. community, otherwise, the hundreds of talking people who lose the life either will have to have any of the seas fires that have gone into effect. up until now have they done anything to lessen the violence in western dar 4? and also, are there any concrete steps that can be taken in order to try to get things under control and are for as it should be unequivocal the message sent to the leader to virginia. read that if this does not stop and stop now,

i know for she does not stop what she's doing. you start to actually buy hospitals and people's home, internalizing people who should visual gonna have issues and be declared that kind of his organization. and he should be hunted. i think you'll have this is the only way you can stop what's happening that i'll go, i'm sorry to bother you. sorry to interrupt you we, we just have a minute left. i wanna ask them a soon. one last question here. may soon from your perspective, what has to happen in order to ensure that either a humanitarian core door can be set up or the people who are most in need of aid can get it the 1000000 dollar question. i will tell you that that answer has to come from external sources. the people of this region have been subjected to compound compound vulnerability. we're not talking about a war inflicted on yesterday for a month ago or 2 months ago. we go back 20 years. these are communities that have been brought down to their needs and so they're a central resilience and their ability to speak out and to,

to change things on their own is not their. and so my colleagues have alluded to the fact that the external pressures are absolutely essential. they are trying to amplify their voices to describe what, how on earth they are living in. but they can not be asked to do more than survive at the moment. and so to open these quarter, as we need to continue to put the pressure externally and to make spaces where we can little and as a can credit, the current in increment until is, is a way forward. but i think in the meantime, let's be realistic. those people who are on the ground and responding as we need the support. now we cannot wait and there are ways to be able to do that. we need to per, tops on and to follow the lead of civil society here, which i've soon an incredible way forward. all right, well, we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of

our guest house is how much may soon to have and how do i have offended and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website builders here at com and further discussion go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. you can also, during the conversation on twitter or handle is at a j inside story from him. how much enjoy them and the entire team here, bye for now the, the, the ears from, i'll just on the go and need tonight out is there is only mobile app. is

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