china bit of a pulse of t and right and have to say the monsoon trough, which is making late, but steady progress is characterized on it's west and i'm the radian c by this tropical some slightly different joint. now that it's going to make then full, probably on the good you're not the coast during. so if you have until that point the waves, aren't they go away from good, you add up to what to cut off. and of course, people being evacuated, precaution to being taken has enhanced the wind down the writing down the western side of india. but it's still very halting the nose and play and look at that and see on the when the news breaks behind me, what do you see is a side of the max of that's than 3. so involving 3 trains, when people need to be hurt and the story needs to be towed, there is no purpose soccer pitch here. so i training the street with exclusive interviews and in depth reports christopher columbus wrote about it. in 1492

algebra has teens on the ground. this is where pilots gets the way to bring you more award winning document trees and live news. fighting and sudan has led to a new wave of violence and dar for thousands of fled to neighboring chad to escape attack spine militias. and there are fears this could reignite tribal tensions in the region. so what's fueling this pilots? this is inside storage. the hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much in june. so the and the army and paramilitary rapids support forces have been fighting for nearly 2 months now. millions of people have been effective, but this latest battle is now threatening to reignite decades old tensions in the western dar 4 region. doctors without borders say,

hundreds of civilians have been killed there since violence broke out in april. the battle began around the capital of to them, but as since spread, so many areas across the country therefore has become one of its main battle grounds. people in the region say, various militias are targeting civilians and some have a warrant of massacres. thousands of people have been crossing into neighboring chad to escape the violets. we'll get to our guests in a moment, but 1st this update from st as robbie who is that a refugee camp on the chat suit and border whenever we return to places like this to these kinds of impromptu camps where people are arriving from west r for primarily from l janina, one thing becomes very clear, the conflict is not becoming smaller, it is becoming bigger because the number of people at places like this simply continues to grow more and more people arrive into these kinds of conditions. they are living out in the open expose to the elements. it is incredibly hot and sunny now with, with very, very start conditions overhead. but just hours ago,

just last night there was a thunder storm. and all of these people have to sleep through that. so the situation here is dire, the circumstances require immediate attention. these people need immediate medical attention. they need water, they need food. and they are keen to say that they need that help as soon as possible from anyone who can give it, but something that they are also very quick to bring up a very immediately after the idea of self preservation. here they are concerned for those that are left behind, they want to speak to us, they want to speak to whoever comes, they want to tell their story and what they keep saying is that they, despite these terrible conditions, they consider themselves the lucky ones. because at least they are not still in elgin, i know, at least they are not still under constant attack by malicious. they say they are worried for their friends and relatives. they describe terrible scenes, many of the dead people that continue to die on a daily basis can not be buried for 2,

at least 2 very important reasons. the people that are there cannot safely bring their bodies to bury them anywhere. and so they are storing them mostly in their own homes. the dead remain in their own homes. and the other problem that we've heard is that people don't have enough to eat. they simply don't have enough energy to dig the graves to put the people in. so incredibly difficult circumstances in elgin and are here in audrey on the order at these refugee camps. and everyone we speak to says the same thing. they want the international community to intervene, if necessary, by force, the same bus for avi in audrey eastern chad for inside story. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guests now in london. may assume the co director of the sudan research group at the london school of hygiene and trump, of, of medicine and here, and they'll have either, will have it less in the, a former student needs diplomat. and now

a professor of politics at the door institute for graduate studies, a warm welcome to you both. thanks for joining us today on inside story. i do have, let me start with you today. so the conflict began around how to them the country's capital, but fighting has spread too many parts of the country. why has dar for become one of the main battle ground? i think i forward the starting point for the mid issue, which is now uh to the rising cost to me. uh a uh and before that it was uh, there was conflict from the 90s. unfortunately. uh, rather than assisted by that for my the g, my former this year uh, between uh uh, so called out of tribes. uh, what's your quote pretty to many magnets from shed. and the original, uh, uh, inhabitants of western got forwarded back to the assembly. and the detention

and escalated when the water stops street in 2002. and when the government is recruited, the so called ginger, which was more or less the roll out of 5 factors to let's say, let's go back to the small no magic side just who included also. ready a large number of and that she gave me each uh, what if you guys has been happening in that for now? is uh when them to the sure. uh, the, the, uh, the new issue uh from it p. how this dr. some, some of these conflicts during the past few years, i think from 19, uh, one to 2020 uh, the some of the, uh,

uh, the out a component of treasure. and so uh, what's that for? i've been engaged in a tax on that. it should have been proficient that i mean to himself when to that, for allegedly to try to provide 2 things down. but uh, most people say he has been, uh, uh, secret to supporting the uh, the muted show that who have increased the power during the transition or government unfortunately. and who, how um, we just really hate to weapons. uh which uh, preparation to, to not have a go equivalent to. uh, so i see now uh with this, what company the spectrum uh,

maybe the dimness of the community share in uh what's in that for wanted to pose federal authority for fee of that as is people in the, in that form. i think the issue has really try to arise a game and this is way of what the receipt to mesa and i saw you nodding along just some of what the, what have was saying there. and it looked like you wanted to jump in, so please go ahead. i, i, um, we work with uh, community researchers across it. so don and right at the beginning of this consequence has come across from our colleagues. and i'm to know it's quite vivid and speaks to it. it'll have what saying if i can put it in their words, what they say about the situation there is to be honest, the situation is catastrophic. and beyond description to them, the fact that jeanine and many mixed little places a dar for a bit of a black box. but what we do know about the impact is that not

only is it wide reaching and an intense, but it is also a compounded by the history of ethnic conflicts and are for it that speaks very much of a genocidal playbook that has just played itself out once more and that's who minutes and researchers we studied conflict the world over and to be honest, we haven't seen anything like this before. this is the in essence, nothing short of the really a renewed genocidal campaign. unfortunately. and perhaps the greater impact under cover for all right, let's now bring in half as much. i'm a director of just as african sudan. i human and civil rights research institute based and sudan. how does um, how much concern is there right now that decades old tribal tensions could be re ignited in dar 4 and, and what would that mean going forward? yeah, the problem is we well actually back to 2000 on city 2004. they don't,

so for level of violence and the violence of actually targeting people according to a try. but i'm a necessity and it's very serious this time because we don't have a function and go into something. i think that maybe we should like support things that i think to cause the maximum. how much damage do, uh, uh, some drives and some people in were in was devil. and actually the very dangerous division of the country is no government to protect them. unders towards them instead of a lot of things and, and, and, and definitely i'll do what have is what is happening in the are for right now kind of a continuation of the word that broke out there in 2003 and ended in 2020 uh well okay, yeah, seen that since say these are the same, the box, these items are engaged, but i think what these different p as the, from the houses and you know, to douglas from that in the past the,

the fact was between atlas um, oops, uh, what's happening got you can what's in the for ease the middle experience, i'd be targeted to uh, buy a, the, uh, the outer safe which was supposed was ip westwood the uh, the in the last few years as a kind of protection force which is supposed to be the police and the military that and uh, issues confronting and um, people must have putting them in uh in i'm not interested in you get, get my, my, i think this is an important invitation that probably the e got the after committee which has like too much individuals do not seem to at

this time. do you agree? it probably mean it should gotten into moment. the problem is that you have this, it all going to shift. which uh, nothing can seems to uh, to dictate it from uh, doing whatever its been wrong like uh here. can people taking good property in fact will that all she couldn't i think the people continue to homes. i'll skip those, stopping people in that or people disappear like that. and the metric can be there seems just think that uh by uh, what is needed is for the people who are affecting this militia to stop the fight, to get the hoping that that happens. the new show will be tamed and just sit down and be nice. i think the quote is probably needed is more uh,

fire power. hm. uh, i think we should quote for it, cuz i'm not sure that i kind of vision in within that for the moment. otherwise, it would become during, during the se, mesa and you were speaking earlier about what you call the catastrophic situation facing a facing door for. and i want to ask you more specifically about just how dire the humanitarian situation is there. so and then my colleagues weren't, and i quote, they say if this situation continues in argentina, it will be worse than you can imagine. they say that it will be worse than the mass of the cleansing this past, because there are multiple ways that you can die directly viable it. and then treated injury or chronic disease stuck in a burning house that you cannot leave or thirst even if you go out to get the water that you need to survive, you get killed. they are very and so i take that urgent and large

scale humanitarian intervention is what is needed to save what is left half of you heard there may soon talking about a engineer and a specifically and, and i want to ask you about that because if we're looking at what's going on in, in door for, it seems like the violence an engineer and it started out as sort of an offshoot of the wider war in sudan. but, but a lot of age groups are now saying that it seems to have become a war in its own right. why is urgent in such a hot spot in the conflict right now? because because it is um, um, well configured. uh, based on the tribal district line, i'm also at the same time land and resources and that thing and that i've had to be going on for the, you know, a fighting around the moon on this area to just choose amino and also the new settings. so actually came on to go over the land off then did you notice that 40

from the city from the is most highly done other tribes. and the main reason for that, i think is 3, is the currently was all is temps is the current thing because there are these people. oh yeah. or the dispute is there's too many id piece come on alternative for using set on the and on this release of our move option form. so that also that going from neighboring country. and is it clear orchestra to come pin based on is picked on fiber line until i also took off. it's a good deal. i think even people are talking about changing even the name of, of, of what's that for different name just that the, the, the, the way, what for our division. and i think that the orchestra that i've been going on in been going on for a very long time on the oh, i is curious because of the, the, the ongoing warning for one that is actually officially more, i'm acting without having international legal intervention in depth so um,

peace keeping to enforce wrong or the i don't think we'll see any piece and definitely and it's going to be even was worse then. maybe i don't want to executive, but it might be another one to ok. all right, so, so i want to take a step back for a moment. as we mentioned, the fighting ensued and risk free, igniting a decades old conflict, and the western dot for region in 2003 answer communal violence began when the sudanese government deployed the so called ginger weed militia. to put down an uprising by a tribal groups, hundreds of thousands of people were killed. the you in says 2500000 people were displaced. the conflict ended in 2020, but violent disputes between tribes sparked by land and access to water continue the leader of the rapids board forces. how many come down the low rose through the ranks of the jungle? we now, i don't have, let me ask you, as we mentioned there, the conflict may have ended in 2020, but violent disputes between tribes, overland, and access to water continue. why has that continued?

so i think they the fighting between the groups that for hug down for quite a while, that wasn't going on. i think the, the, the new to figuration. especially in the lesson that for that why uh, in the 2000 in the between 2000 until 2015 . uh, they mean issues. uh, where a small number on were under control of the army. uh, to all the security as yes has to be more up to the size and the number of very small in the past. uh for 5 years. uh, the number i gave gave me this. yeah. was given for my uh uh, the technician, as of support forces, which was sort of sparking security uh,

operates, i suddenly became part of the army and then became independent of the army. and it was given heavy way punch. why should you have in the past? it was given a kind of official back to where it is not will officially uh, a government falls in uh, in less than that for so it is supposed to be the protective uh, j. c. of the people that fucked as happy before the total. it has now to handle as acting on its own account, the st. and i think this is, this is the thing that we have. we already know that because in the past 4 or 5 years. mm. let me tell you the police and i know which weekend and we have these uh, these kind of samuel official. but yeah, we're all good minutes. yeah. uh, i think and they, these people have been an agenda that i've been,

that has been difficult with the end of them is suddenly i'm throw them out. and i think this is this way of the one the example i have as early as may soon as thousands of people have been crossing into neighboring chad to escape the violence for those who are attempting to flee to chat. how difficult and how dangerous is that journey? i will quote my colleagues again in this they said to try to move to a place of safety across the border within. so don is a quote, a suicide mission. it is incredibly difficult. and so many people to manage to get out, but it's a great cost many to stay. and because of the history of the conflict in places like come to nina, the concentrate, the populations tend to be concentrated in highly populated residential residential areas which are deemed to be safe front at the beginning of this conflict. those weren't able to leave into large of ex student dormitories to try that shelter. and

those were showed since then there's an estimated 2200000 internally displaced with an engineering and living in open air with no shelter, no safety. and the quote again, they say every one of these heavily populated neighborhoods, but when the militia enter, they burn it down to the ground, they rob and pillage and they killed, especially those who are unable to run the elderly, handicapped, and the blind. and we've had from our colleagues and reports of violence against women, especially gender, sexual based violence in terms of rake. again, the decision to leave is difficult in front of the decision to stay. sometimes not a decision you just have to stay is definitely a m a soon. i just want to follow up with you to ask about the kind of access that humanitarian groups have been able to to get. i mean,

is that just not happening right now? is there any hope that there could be a humanitarian core door setup or that humanitarian actors would be able to access the people who need aid and, and medical help the most? i can summarize the measure axis and we're one word at the moment, which is not. there is no human strain access into engineering that even within the cut, within the city itself, just moving about to provide support for members of your own community can be deadly. and so much of the response that is being mounted is very much the localized community lead effort. and it is extremely hampered by the security situation. you know, colleagues describe scenes of just stepping out of their house, putting out a handout or foot out and being shut up by snipers. so what they're having to do and also help workers are being targeted. what they're having to do in some places

is operate what they call secret neighborhood clinics. the, the clinics are hidden from the outside that are only available to those who know how to get there and, and are close to it. this is of course, not feeling in the void in any way. so of course we've asked what is it that you need? and they said what we need quickly and urgently security. and provision of the humanitarian quarter is to provide basic health services to provide establish displace people comes with full services to those folks. but the reality is that we don't know when that re monitoring corridor is going to be open to them. and not the obvious should be the focus, right? we need to push for that. there is no way around it so long as people can step outside of their houses. no one is safe inside engineering and coming in. so when we want to or is inability to map those 1st responders to understand who is doing what, where and calling really for the humanitarian health community to change talking to

change tact quickly. we need to adjust to the situation and support those 1st responders who are already on the ground by any means necessary. and i think in that case they can take example from civil society. they ask for groups like this is union groups in the u. k. who have mobilized to support community letter and steps and clicks like lead and head fuss, providing whatever they can from a distance to mobilize those health cutters that are inside the city and to get them through until those military and quarters are open. half of how much concern is there right now about unrest in western dar for the stabilizing neighboring countries. in particular, chad for example, definitely the magnitude of displacement and people actually move on to, to, to check yourself, i'm know, appear ability to provide some support because the infrastructure and chinese is, is very poor. i'm and their chat in or 70 hesitated clearly that they are not

able to provide the need to support for these people on, on that, as i've seen that clear. and if the confident continue with the same live it and i think we wouldn't see more people fleeing to tie them center last week and discontinue themselves. i don't know the student, they have what security problems they help you, it problems. and that's going to come pretty good solution if you more i think that's what i'm saying is we really need a human mortality. and by the protection for this, people is be dealing with the own material assistance to allow access to working with their work or to work on cause or to protect them. because the main problem is, is now protection, because most of them actually, agencies are working on and we're getting to the, the styles because that they can not secure the data to access to have access to, to get to this people. i think what do we need, need it again. if we went back,

please to go to 10. the, the disappointment, to some extent is to have forced which provide protection for going with and i would guess i'm also protect visit if used because it in is coming people out. i'm going to be up front. and of course that isn't appropriate. ok, what is a problem for you is a problem and then we'll drop it is due to just desperate and also rain because it is just going to start and then it's going to complicate the problem even more. it again, action is needed from the national committee, otherwise i had to just talk to people who lose the life. i didn't have any of the seas fires that have gone into effect. up until now, have they done anything to lessen the violence in western door for and also are there any concrete steps that can be taken in order to try to get things under control and are for or that should be unequivocal. the message sent to the leader to virginia. read that if this does not stop and stop now,

i know for she does not stop what she's doing. you have to keep buying hospitals and people's home and paradise. the people who should visual vision can be declared that parents, organization, and who should be hunted. i think you'll have. this is the only way you can stop what's happening that i'll go out, i'm sorry to bother you. sorry to interrupt you we, we just have a minute left. i want to ask them a soon. one last question here may soon, from your perspective, what has to happen in order to ensure that either a humanitarian cord or can be set up or the people who are most in need of aid can get it. that's the $1000000.00 question. i will tell you that that answer has to come from external sources. the people of this region have been subjected to compound compound bull, rehabilitate. so we're not talking about a war inflicted on yesterday for a month ago or 2 months ago. we go back 20 years. these are communities that have been brought down to their needs and so their essential resilience and their

ability to speak out and to, to change things on their own is not their. and so my colleagues have alluded to the fact that the external pressures are absolutely essential. they are trying to amplify their voices to describe what, how on earth they are living in. but they can not be asked to do more than survive at the moment. and so to open these quarter, as we need to continue to put the pressure externally and to make spaces where we can little and as a can credit, the current in increment until is, is a way forward. but i think in the meantime, let's be realistic. those people who are on the ground are responding as we need the support. now we cannot wait and there are ways to be able to do that. we need to put the tops on and to follow the lead of civil society here, which i've soon an incredible way forward. all right, well,

we have run out of time, so we're gonna have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guest house is how much may seem to have and how do i have an affinity? thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. i'll just here at odd. com. that's further discussion, go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash ag inside story. you can also during the conversation on twitter, our handle is at a inside story from him. how much room and the entire team here, bye for now the the, every month you'll have someone from home that'll say so please. i need money for

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