means it's going to be a mostly cloudy sky in karachi, and it's a story of wind across the gulf states. here's a wider view. let's go in for a closer look. we'll paint the color is on dark or the red, the height of the temperature weights. 49 degrees for us here. and don't have 46 if we talk about the weight. so for the next 3 days or temperature, it's going to range about $4849.00 counts, even rollouts, 50 degrees. ok? coverage at c, as in the un under c expedition gone wrong? the titan said, most of all that went missing last sunday and to combine science with tourism. similar to private traits under the seo into space, have raised billions of dollars, building eyes and saves that helps fund science and industry. what are the risks to hi, this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm for the back people. governments used to be the main fund is a see and space expeditions, but commercial companies, offering adventures to the ends of the earth and beyond. attracting billions of dollars every year, some of the dangers in commercial, cx probation have been exposed by the pride of the 5 men on board the titan, submersible that went missing. so all these multi 1000000000 dollar industries contributing to size and how to such adventures, benefits society will put back to our guests in just a moment. but 1st, let's take a closer look at how private companies are pushing boundaries in space. and under the c commercial investments in the space race have tripled more than a $110000000000.00 in 2005 to nearly $357000000000.00 in 2020 in may 2020 space x became the 1st private company to send people to the

international space station in july 2021 blue origin incentives for his commercial service into sub orbital space. and this year, virgin galactic is about to send customers into space. in 2019 and american explorer broke a record by descending nearly 11 kilometers to the deepest place in the pacific ocean. what did he find? sea creatures anaplastic back and some sweet rapids and accompany ocean gate has sought to further expand sea tories in taking people deeper into the ocean than ever before. now wave from commercial ventures, scientists, the shining lights deep into space and the oceans. in july 2022, the james web cap to this 1st images, and from deeper into space and any telescope before. in june, scientists found phosphorus on one of sightings moons and essential elements needed

for life. and looking down, scientists recently found more than 5000 new species of marine life on a sea bed between hawaii and mexico. but the deeply concerned too, as the areas in los for deep sea mining from transparent east just dietz legged, spite of fish, scientists are continuing to discover a strange lie forms at great a depths as well as spring and guess now for today's inside story in keel gemini, sylvia sander was chair of the european marine board working group on deep sea and ocean health and bristol, as the piece and an astrophysicist and space trend list and in christian signed in no way. vic, to launch a mouth was head of sociology and social work at the university of actor. thank you to all 3 of you for joining us on inside story today. sylvia in keel, let me start with you. as we've said in the past few years, commercial space,

torres and companies owned by billing as a jeff bezos, richard branson, and eat on mosque has been making headlines with sending paying customers into space. how developed is commercial, deep ocean exploration, and why do people go into these extreme expeditions as well as that's a good question. i think it's in the venture right? people have done adventures since the humans are on inhabiting the else or so i think that's one of the main reasons that people just the same for the venture. um, i'm not i think i'm quite certain that this kind of tourism that has led now to this tragic loss of, of the titan is not helping um you know, learning more about the deep sea for example. um, but i think we also um,

from the marine board from this working group i'm leading we are looking into the impact of research even we are doing. and we are doing this in principle to, to learn and understand the ocean and the, it consist of and not just to have a glimpse of, of some sea creatures down there. i mean, the, the deep eco system is very fridge island, very slow. it's very cold. and very deep, so everything is growing very, very slowly and it can easily be biggest or um, so noise is an issue on but also look like welling up the settlement and so on. so, i mean it's, it's very sad for those people. definitely. all right, but i don't see how this kind of adventure is helping the research in general for the deep thing. sylvia. how, how developed is commercial, deep ocean exploration. when you compare it to,

to space commercial expiration. i do know that there are, there are really some adventures i think, which are rich enough to fund their own vessels like the present you, you've mentioned before and that are, you know, sponsoring themselves to, to go down there with a little are and then they are all these re torres of organizations like with a tied to now i think that the different thing is again we can't just say um commercial organizations going down into the deep sea. so i think it's, it's, you know, you have to differentiate. and of course there are also, um, organizations like the smiths, ocean organization that are non governmental that are really funding research like through research. so i think it's like always like something like a white and vision. all clear friendship. yeah,

exactly. yeah. interesting as he let me come to you it and we talk about space, not because that's what you specialize in in terms of scientific explorations. of course, we've come, leap at leaps and bounds. in the past 10 years, we've collected data from one of saturn's loans. we've spent telescopes into deep, deep space. how have private companies like space ex, blue origin disrupted this traditional model of government led space explorations and, and what do you see as the benefits and drawbacks to them? one of the big changes that's happened is that it's led to a lot more small emissions happening. um, so for instance, a couple of weeks ago that was the ac seem to mission which allowed the saudi the nation to put the 1st 2 extra notes into space on a board space at crockett. and so it allows people who might not have been able to go into space before because they couldn't afford to do an entire space program and built their own rockets. but they can now pay for one to send that,

that their experience and that astronauts into space. and we're seeing that. uh, that's gonna happen a lot at noon specifically over the next couple of years. um, there's a whole bunch of private land is that all planning on being able to go to the moon and take experiments that won't leave. that's to fuel masters, ultimate mission. but also there's lots of people who from everybody from universities to private individuals are going to be able to use those. but the problem that comes with that is, this is a very new industry that's not a lot of regulation that's going on at the moment. which means basically if your you get the okay to, to launch your vehicle, you can pretty much, once you're in space there's, there's not a lot of people who can control and say what you're doing throughout that. um, so that's kind of one of the problems that's coming in from that. right. and it's interesting that you bring up the, the question of regulation because that's a relation when it comes to, to deep c expiration. and i'll come back to sylvia in a moment, but uh, i wanna get your thoughts for as victor. it seems that the question today is into

whether you can actually get the space or the d motion. it's whether you can afford to get fed. what are your thoughts about these commercial expeditions into space and, and the deep sea how? how do you see them benefit in society as well? there's no doubt that space exploration in of itself could be easily beneficial to humanity and certainly under the interest of the state or private enterprise. so we've seen technology, everything from light bulbs to certain types of running shoes, cat scans, uh, wireless headsets and so involves been said to benefit in some way from, from the space raise during the cold war. and that might very well continue, or the umbrella of these private entrepreneurs. and space exploration satisfies a kind of innate human desire to explore the venture forth into the unknown. there seems to be a kind of common human impulse to, to explore and figure out what lies beyond an expense, so to speak. but there are significant risks and costs i would argue associated with transferring power to these private enterprises in the domain of space

exploration. so it's in a way, it's usually ironic said people like you and must speak of turning us into a multi planetary space. he's a form of risk mitigation, i guess, potentially catastrophic climate change. when the does, it ends in hundreds of rocket launches. we see taking place now around the world, threatened to accelerate to climate change in the united nations environment program speaks of the creation of temporary o o zone holes around a launch site. so there are potentially significant environmental harms from these constant rock lunches. but that's such as one issue, there's also the political, regulatory side of things as a previous speaker mentioned controls or what goes on in our space. so risk spend costs, especially when it comes to the environment. but what about uh victor, ethical concerns. so what ethical concerns should be considered? yes. so what are the benefits of what is called old space to the meaning of the kind of quote or model where the state government is in control of what goes on

terms of the outer space, is that then you have a certain element of democratic control of soap, so the question is really who controls it goes on an outer space in the future. will it be governments and by extension, the people the public or won't be big? private corporations, an individual super wealthy billionaires, perhaps even truly an errors we may, may come into a situation where, where the 1st truly knows this kind of space entrepreneur. so so there's that issue and there's also the issue of course of the militarization of space which is connected to 10 generally to this issue. uh, yeah. satellite technology is of course heavily involved in the building of a kind of close spanning military industrial complex. there is a test ban treaty of 1963 of bands you correct and the testing outer space, but we're seeing the establishment of the us space for us as an element of, of middle transition out you core. i taishan estrada motorized ation of outer space and more will probably happen on that front end of years to come. yeah, survey. what are your thoughts about this,

vic deposit pose an important questionnaire about who controls and who benefits from this when it comes to dfcs duration. this is an issue like especially in terms of the regulation. what kind of challenges are you see and how do you address them? and you know, if you, i mean, i think in that sense we're a little ahead of space in the marine realm because we do have some jurisdiction and legislation in place. we've got the united nation a caught the convention on the low to see young cloths and um was also just yesterday actually signed the b, b a j, a test bar to, to the beyond the national jurisdiction. so we do have legal instruments in place and it's not kind of the wild west down there. um of course there is also, uh, this is the, the area, the open ocean um,

outside of the national drawer section. um, of course people can do what the national jurisdiction is allowing within the that sort of the front term and that counts for, you know, i guess private operations but also things like deep sea mining and so long. but i think some people have realized that it's really necessary to set up organizations that are taking care of the auction for human content and, and for, for the benefit of 2 years. and probably it's the only time that before we destroyed we, as the humans destroyed and that co system that we are thinking about hits right now. i tried to at least put the regulations in place. i guess how good they would work in the, in the will be what they saying, but there is an effort to do so. okay. interesting it, as the, you know,

we talked about some of the significant achievements in a space expiration and also commercial space exploration to some extent. but there are a lot of people asking today why is the money being spent, you know, by companies, by these private companies and commercial companies. why is this not being spent on, on, you know, mans expiration and, and given to governments for example, would that make a difference? you think a well, with a lot of these, the private base companies obviously fail. they all businesses, they are trying to make money, but it's people using money to make more money. so that's best of primary goal. they have logic goals of being able to be able to, to perhaps go into malls and do things like that. but that is sort of that primary concern for what we were reward in terms of a financial gain and scientific exploration. so in terms of,

of scientific expiration, if it really is kind of, it's more what's best buy is more of, of a tool and it's giving access to people to be able to then go in and do what they want with it. so it is these purpose based quite companies all still open to the governments. in fact about, that's one of the reasons why blue origin is by sex exist is because not so high a to them as you feel the spacecraft to, to operate folding. and that's, in fact, one of the master's big goals is to support us companies in the space industry. so it's, it's giving a different way to be able to conduct the scientific experiments, but is out of the hands of just this one government agency is, is, is the general idea. it is obviously it's still cost a lot of money, but it is a lot cheaper to to hire a company to send your spacecraft into space than it is to build a rocket to send it out for yourself. right. uh victor, you your thoughts about this and, and you know, looking at the future,

how might technology and scientific advancements change our approach to space exploration and even deep cx ration as well? i think it's important to bear in mind that there is a certain kind of false self understanding amongst the libertarian silicon valley, billionaires this kind of heroes of free enterprise. and i, i agree with the previous speaker that there was, in fact, the kind of invocation with government funding and contract of restructure. so it is kind of ayn rand idea that many of these space entrepreneurs have about themselves as belie, but they're always complete dependency. and reliance on, on government funding so, so it's important to, to not necessarily takes industry at their own. um, the accept their phone premises as it were. and to what the co authors, thomas holden, myself, we've developed this concept which we call capitalist kind. it's the idea that certain private business and entrepreneurs like to present themselves as if they're bad acting on behalf of humanity. but in reality, reality, of course,

they are acting on behalf of their own pocket books, so to speak, on behalf of the bottom line of their companies. and so that the carries with a certain risk of in the outer space domain. we also have this outer space treaty of 1967. it's a very progressive in some sense why does a piece of legislation on international treaty which states that the exploration and use of our spain shall be carried up for the benefit and interest of all of mankind, all human kind. so there is this kind of legal ideal of, from, from the cold war era that, uh, the resources on offer out in outer space should be made available to all of humanity. but whether that will actually become reality or not, seems somewhat dubious, given the, the way things are going and politically and economically. and it's as field. yeah . as it should be. speaking about, you know, the comics of all of it. i was curious to know whether the, these companies that are engaging in dc exploration today or the property

accounting for, for the potential costs and, and the risks and potential costs of rescue missions. for example, it with the example of the recent case and, you know, are they, uh, also accounting for the environmental damage that comes with it. an adult that they will do. i mean, this will cost a huge amount of money on this risk you um activity and, but i mean that's, that's always in the see if something gets lost, everybody is helping to find the drive. right. but um, of course people are putting themselves at risk of their own choice so. so i'm not entirely sure if they are insured for to cover the cost or not. um i, i, it, i just checked out and, yeah the me to do take, do you, do you know about this? i mean, do they take into account the risks and costs associated with, you know, failing and emission like this?

i think a whole does priced into the contracts. i don't want to speak to the detail day to day operations and kind of business affairs of these corporations which are not by large public. we listen to corporate, right. so some, some of those details are probably not available to the public or to researchers. um, i would reiterate the, the importance of, of maintaining the validity of the outer space tree of 1967 despite these developments. right? so, so then the question becomes sylvia, and i'm going to come to you as in a 2nd, but just wanted to get your thoughts sylvia, on how to balance the risk to the individuals, to the environment. and, and, you know, for the organizations eating these traits against a potential value for society as a whole, how do we balance it all? i mean, to be fair, i don't see a benefit to the society and a to z as we see here. sadly,

every use we are watching. i really don't see any benefit to it. it's really an adventure. people are taking end up paying money for the right. um and uh the, the research that is done in the deep sea which is very expensive, is founded by a national organizations like governments, right, to do research. they're still more like international and they're open to, to all nations. right. but um, are they are not funded by these kinds of organizations? so to tell us about some of the recent successes in, in which are not funded by these private companies tell us about some of the recent successes in deep cx preparation. and what we've learned as a result. well, i mean in the 1st place we, we know very little about the deep sea, right? then every time sofa has calendar or something like that is done. we find that over

50 percent of the species we are bringing up and we can especially far, are unknown so far. so there is a vast amount of organisms in species, in the deep sea, we have got no idea about and every time an expedition is going down, they find new species. and in some cases we, they find that they are actually in large numbers down there, right, that they're really having a big impact on the system down there. and we're still in by now. haven't known about them. so the 90 percent really of the deep sea is completely unknown because of its vastness because of its steps because it is very deep really and we, we, it's, it's difficult to get down there. right. but i mean successes at the moment is really that we do find these organisms and that we, we have got the possibility of collecting samples in

a very good way. ringback mostly using um, remote offer agent vehicles because they are much cheaper than main supp most of us . and they do have exactly the same capability as men. so both of those. so there are very few minutes of, most of both actually in inaction for to research at the moment as the assessing, you know, the risks associated with these types of missions, whether in space or in the deep sea. how do you think nations, organizations, and, or companies prepare for the possibility of accidents or emergencies? and in other words, how do we balance the desire for expiration with the potential risks and dangers associated with it? well, certainly when it comes to national agencies, the united masses and is the, the european space agency, is this one of the big examples? there is a, a lot of concern put on safety. does a lot of measures that they put into place and also looking back historically

throughout the space age that have been tragedies, people have died and they've taken a lot of responsibility folder when it happens. there's always been a huge inc quest, human space flight. what stopped the of the challenger, it's stopped that for about 2 years. well, stay investigated exactly what was going on to make sure that the stakes wouldn't happen again. so suddenly there was a precedent of, of what to do in the space industry to make sure a minimize risk. and partly because if, when your, if you want to protect human lives and also, you know, it's you, they don't want to lose the emissions either. so it's, it's safety is always a very big concern, whether that's human or overall technician, even whether that will fail to onto these private companies remains to be seen. it is work saying that there is a lot of ticket in the us. there's a lot of regulations about what you can launch. so the f,

i wouldn't let you launch a spacecraft if they think it's dangerous. you need to be able to approve, but it can support human safely before believing that you launch it. so certainly in, in the us there is, there is a lot of safety checks that go on when it comes to a space like okay, victor, i'll ask you the same question. we've heard about the risks and the challenges, the risk to the environment, the risks to the individuals as well. what role do you think government and non governmental organizations can, can play in better regulating all this? well, i think a complete a, a significant and, and expanded role in terms of particularly implementing an idea of like a space tax to a particular of tax on space resources. the asteroid mining, for instance, of also satellite launch is an unsettling orbits password. my name is kind of a science fiction idea to store the ways in the future, but we need to start thinking about the political, economic,

regulatory environment around those, potentially significant resources out there. and what model for inspiration might be the case of more ways on base than in norway is kind of need to get in society, which is the discovery and significant oil resources in the sixties and seventies and tax those resources very heavily. indeed, in order to fund a generous welfare state, was like free public health care and on higher education so on. and so it's really allowed to reach a government so to fund of it's day to day activities. and on the, in lieu of state ownership of space activities, there needs to be at least a minimum of a minimum of space tax employees to capture windfall profits, ensure the ordinary people, taxpayers are for you to read in some fashion for those significant investments to have made and establishing what am i called abroad the ecosystem. so that has allowed private the enterprise to blossom around outer space activities today? me a very interesting it as either benefits. so what,

what are your thoughts on this? how do, does everyone benefit from this and what exciting developments on the, on rise and that you think might have a impact on society. space industry is very much a part of our daily lives, dpi systems. i use one every day. it's how food gets around the world and communications. all of these kinds of things. there is, there is a very big benefits that come from being able to get into space. uh, there's also quite a lot of research that can be done with humans in space, flight and it might be much more on time, but getting out there and explore. i mean of us, i personally think would be a good thing. the question is, is so when, when is those benefits going to, to show um, i think in terms of things that we've got coming up is going to be really interesting. i mentioned earlier, people are going to be going back to the moon that says ultimate mission. and

there's going to be a lot more robust technicians going to go ahead of that. that are going to take a lots of small emissions towards them. there's, there's lots of small companies that are sending rovers and things to the surface of the moon. so i think it's going to be a big opportunity for some of the smaller industries out the, to stop benefiting from the space expiration. alright, is sylvia. you have the last word. what does the future look like for deep sea exploration? what does it look like? well, i think it's really robotics um, uh, autonomous instrumentations that use only little energy and can cover long distance. so, i mean there is even kind of a no impact to the core for, for research. and i'm not sure if i'm, if i'm for that, but there is thought, you know, of, of sending out remote operated instrumentation to do the research for us.

i guess it can be done in, in the lot of the fields, you know, where you're like, where you meant or where you, you can measure remotely, but not everything can be done remotely. so i think the, the research expeditions on board of a ship will, will remain and, and i think they're very necessary to really discover more of the ocean and to see the connectivity of everything. because we, we haven't for the, on the, on the stuff that and i think it's very important to know the baseline. we are at this very moment without the ocean before. something like climate change takes in a change in the drive. yeah. um and there is yeah i, i think but i think the way the remote operates of the vehicles are the future for us to go. okay, thank you. oh, very much for

a very interesting conversation. i learned to lots at me. thank you. sylvia sand as the piece and, and victor learn some us. thank you and thank you to for watching. you can always watches program again any time by visiting our site at all, which is the or dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash a inside story. of course you can join the conversation on twitter handle is that a j inside story from me for the back to point whole team hearing doha, thanks for watching. by from the the

we understand the differences and similarities of cultures across the world. so no matter why you call out you 0 will bring you the news and current affairs. the houses in here the i'm carry johnston, hearing the hall with the headlines now and out of there is ready for us is ready to the i call rescue g. come over nights on thursday. settlers also attacked the villages of the reef and on the south that hundreds of settlers had been attacking palestinian areas since a killing of forest varies on tuesday. that's farther than his very raging. janine, you and human rights chief is wanting at vonem and occupied westbank risks spiraling out of control.