in an effort to make telling youth basketball team confront it to lease out dates as low which excludes them from competitive support with the full budget to compete because we are foreigners, we are not foreigners. we all vote. and if you took out, is there a world follow them, and the inspirational coach say, fight the low, just to compete, smoke out there at all to deny these young boys to ride. sometimes i'll skip home on al jazeera, an unprecedented change to vladimir putin straight on. tyler roches. wagner must navigate, threatens and armed rebellion by full size is the twice as many over how will it affect some more, a new crane and what's the future for wagner? this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm 40 back to bill is being seen as an unprecedented crisis and uprising against russian president vladimir 14 biased former online. now head of the wagner mess scenary group. if any precaution is set for life, next sign in bella, rou, sasha, agreeing to end the mutiny. so what we're putting do next, how will the rebellion against his will affect his image worldwide? and would it change the war in ukraine? we'll put those questions in more to our guess in just a few moments. but for us, this report by me had a baby on how the fast moving events in russia and folded what started as a war of words, swiftly turned into action. for years, the leader of the wagner mercenary group had kept a low profile, only acknowledging his forces existence last september. sitting reason,

days that change dramatically. you have given you precaution once known as putting the check for his catering activities. granted, under the russian president, conducted a brief about him against the russian military on friday. obviously putting his create precaution, regardless of a self made man. he spoke most projects to create a sort of a competitive alternative military for assuming russia to boost the effectiveness of the regular russian army. buick. pre causing, released a vigil, stepping up his feud with rushes, military leaders and open the rejecting routines. main justification for the invading ukraine. in the early hours of such a day precautions sent his forces to cross the border into south and russia from ukraine, pre causing cold a march for justice and said his troops had been able to enter the rest of them, done completely unopposed while sending 5 new comb, voice towards moscow. shoes. go to the number i see in an address to the nation,

president flooding you, putting colder actions treason. i'm filed to crush what he called in on things direction should give you much and that will we will protect our people in our state hood from any threats including internal be trail and what we're facing is betrayal. exorbitant ambitions and personal interests led to treason, russian military helicopters attacked the wagner convoy. that was half way to moscow. the kremlin and those bellows had struck a do with pre collision with a degree to de escalate. the situation. provide numerous interviews were promised. i'm s t if they surrender their weapons and picos unit, he's 5 new troops been pulled back from the mountain most cool. lots a very far as we go through, within 200 kilometers of most go in this time we did not spill a single drop of off fight as blood. now the moment is come. when blood could be

spilt understanding the responsibility, the rushing blood will be spilled on one side. we are turning all columns around, i'm going back to field camps as plant each ukrainian president, florida america. lensky says, russia's weaknesses all of us, cautioning that the longer most school keeps its troops in ukraine. the more k use it divides back home. that's led many to question the strength of pretense group on power. and you hit l a. b, d for insight story. the last spring in august now for today's inside story in moscow is 2nd, michael's director of the institute of political studies in moscow. his a former public spokesman for present 14 and a former russian m. p. in washington dc, is katrina doxey, associate director for the transactional threats project at the center for strategic and international studies. and in birmingham in the u. k. stefan wolf,

professor of international security at the university of birmingham and co founder of the pod cast, navigating the vortex dot com one. welcome to all 3 of you. thank you so much for joining us on inside story. so give me a call. let me start with you. there's so many moving parts to this story. so much to i'm cover. i want to ask you 1st about the situation in russia. is it back to business as usual for the kremlin is present, put in front of main control as a whole? uh, of course uh, a sufficient now quite, quite rodney google funding culture, which is why as a say and then the people feel quite confident about uh now um, but uh, not a certain time ever for them to send as it is. this was a bit, it'd be funny to go cries, this is means that a russian government suspicious specifically emitted to the zone sufficient or far from me means of dysfunction. and of course the people of the month

are on the president uh uh, to uh, to make uh a security deposit as people uh, more time from now. okay. and also i, you, me to put you on. uh, we'll have to see, i see is policy. because i wanna know is that may i resolve your, suppose it and it was the reason the why people. so once you, it's political sudden distributed to month. now as a temple is a bitch, is that cool? is that not something that you're for? sure. so you, so very big political crisis, you say, so i get sorry stump and you say a very big political crisis has it, we can present voted. it's not we can to wait a minute, we don't have too much. it's uh, it's usually better estimate the by all the rest of the society by which i'm not a sense of not because the suppression shows that i've been put to because added to

more than 80 percent. and all these groups all got on those deputies. and i went and bought it and bought the well uh buckles. i was directed to a position as a sub for the white unit which of the massage to finish. but it's not so witness for policy. it's more inflection who was the direction that was a country use of were probably arrest. okay, cause you what happens is you is it just gets the results and play. you will have to change its policy and such as monday to do what's your wants. okay. i will ask you about the direction the country is likely to take next after those crises, but i want to come to katrina doxey 1st in washington dc to get your thoughts, katrina about how this all unfolded and, and also the fact that the ukrainians and many others, in fact, have been very skeptical about how this all and folded a senior ukrainian official was just asked about this about the russians fighting

among themselves. and he said it's too good to be true. was this really an attempted coup as most coolest framed it? it's honestly, it's a very strange and confused, a confusing situation that we're still trying to pers out. it appears that a while this was very clearly a just more or less unprecedented strength against put in power the all of his vulnerabilities were clearly on display provision was careful to be clear in stating that his aims were to target the ministry of defense. specifically, chicago and ross mob, because of the perceived injustices against wagner. and really tied back we assumed to the deadline that the ministry of defense was set of july. first, for all, wagner troops to sign contracts with the m o. d and ceased to be an independent

entity. that's something that goes too far for, for goes in to accept. and so while the events that have unfolded over the past couple of days have certainly highlighted the weakness of the russian state. he was still clear to frame it more as a mutiny against the military man as a director to and i think that that is what gave him at least applause ability to come to the relatively gentle terms of the agreement that we see between production and pro and that said, i think this was still a very serious security situation that got out of hand, and it's highlighted a number of vulnerabilities of the russians. they both are on why, why did per goshen. i. i know, you know, you've researched it the fact imaginary group extensively. why did pre goshen back down in the and he wanted the defense minister out, which hasn't happened yet. so what did he get in exchange? you think, besides, of course, the, the fact that he won't be permanently pursued,

i think the motivation for production was the preservation of wagner as its own entity and not being subsumed by the state. they really, i think a lot of this animosity between for goes and, and the ministry of defense has centered around your brain. it's centered around various accusations, the suffering that wagner has experienced in and around butler. and ultimately though, the fingerprint moody is done across prisons line was insisting that all members of wagner assigned a visual contracts with the state no later than july 1st. and so ultimately the became at high cost provision really got a bit of what you wanted in that he and sort of his core wagner troops are under no obligation to sign with the russian state to be taking the offer to the ministry.

right. wagner's fight is, of course, have been offered contracts to join the russian military. we'll get to that in just one. but, but i want to bring stephen into the conversation before we talk about steven, what happens next? what are your thoughts about how this all unfold? did you assessment the fact that there's so many theories out there as to what rent went down really the speed at which it unfolded? quite incredible. what is your assessment as to what happens and what happens next? well, i think, as you just said, i mean, it's very difficult to really make a lot of sense on the quite confusing and conflicting information and it's all done in the public domain at the moment. i mean, what i would say 1st of all, is that it's unlikely that this was simply uh, espn channels. we action by uh, goes in to the electrical tech um, you know, stuff like bug depression, minutes. okay. been a been vocal about his opposition to the russian military for months. now we somewhat saw this coming perhaps not at the speed that it did. absolutely,

it's 3 up. so do you, right? i mean, these are on conflicts really between promotion on the one hand and are cycle and crossing multiple in the other. they go back to at least uh, last uh, walton. uh, early august you know, in the context of the bundle of, of months. so i'm sure we don't have a very, as contingency plans in place and already the fact that you manage to move. so it's the end of project as far as has also fall into the wash and hold on. i mean, nancy came to our 200 kilometers fund within 25 miles within most of me that requires preparation lot, at least in terms of having the fuel available uh to get all those material there. so i think that most of the plans and by the electric field store most of probably just uh what because youre needing to to execute stefan it's over for now, but it's a crisis itself really over. oh no,

absolutely not because somebody knows one of your other speakers i've said, i mean dallas, i'm very deep. copeland's douglas shaw has been facing for some find that has been snow exposed and excessive, painted by the disastrous war against ukraine. and i think that is not being resolved by the fact that progression now isn't exiled in in columbus. i think there are a lot of even just talk a power to put a drawer where the rules are just that this is not over. and this is really something that the crumbling really have to hurry up on for quite some time. second, my call is uh, if any, pre goshen safe in bella russo anywhere else in the world for that matter. i've seen cause that to gain if it goes on in space. uh, because uh, what do you mean if we can use it? it is strong about she is a pharmacist, but you're pointing to your married. remember right, mr. jose,

oklahoma. but i mean the sofa is it i is that uh let me see here. we've been on target and she was knows if i get more than a year before, uh, is it s k i g for or that's on the tax. i couldn't buy drones. and saving us inquiry as a precaution. uh well, you know, put in promise us, you won't be in a security chair, and it goes on a little bit. is there a certain time? i've seen people who will not control a lot and have a group, at least in a very big amount. okay. i'm not going to be close to a stay in the last time. but i guess a little different because this guys show that to be independent school file, not fire with me. they did accompanist, would be very dentist on, is that why is this why you gotta know which in those are always the which key quite a few weeks before about unification and the more or disagree and tools private

books will be continued and the room, rubies, develop the ends as the results of the books will be most of the demands of was the defense minister, or the next season exclusion probably e file, not the board on the or want to take part on the bottom. i agree to announce that confidence life program was. those are after they come, concert is asian counselors. she is now very well known as a uh, the best price admitted to their groups. and as of all space, you can get the concepts from is that does on different uh, governments and globally. okay, well let's take a closer look at the wagner group, the private power military force was established in 2014 by. you have danny, for goshen after russia antics crimea. it's been one of russia's main military forces and ukraine, recruiting prisoners in russia to fight in return for their freedom. a faith survived. it has many sources of for an income, including from natural resources such as gold and oil. the group is active

elsewhere, as they just mentioned, including parts of the middle east, like syria and libya. and so don and latin america as well as africa in countries like monte 14 or fossil and the central african republic. katrina doxy. let me come to you. do you share, say, gave the views at 1st of all you have any pray. precaution is safe and that vive, not in his car in for uh, can not continue with. uh you have any precaution edits. how and i think that walter goes in may be safe in the immediate short term simply because reaching an agreement with a force that's 200 kilometers from moscow. and then using covert measures to have them assassinated immediately afterward, is not a show of strength. i have more doubts about his safety and more of the medium to long term, especially if this conflict between him and the crumbling continues,

which i expect to start at well. and i think part of that continuing conflict will center on the future of the bunk know group. so even though wagner has been a huge part of moscow's efforts in you printing really the center of the wagner empire, all of its different connected shell companies, including those that exploit natural resources. all of that has really been centered in africa, particularly the sub saharan african countries, and such as c a r, molly sudan, where wagner is able to provide security and paramilitary services to local regimes and exchange for various geo political goals that moscow has, as well as economic games both for the group itself, but also coming back to others in moscow, particularly being able to warrant the impact of some of the western sanctions that

have been levied against russia in the week of their latest invasion with ukraine. and so i, i agree that causes russia doesn't see promotion continuing to leave the wagner group as it is. uh, currently i don't think they see that as an option. however, i think that for goes ends. primary goal will be trying to shore up his business empire as much as possible. and so while the direct clash over russia, i think is over, i think that the uh, the conflict or competition or who controls wagner moving forward, has only just begun. okay, stuff on your thoughts about this, the future of 5. now can it continue without you have any precaution as its leader and what consequences for these various crises and conflicts that wagner has been involved in? so don, for example, where malicious supported by wagner is fighting the regular army, new york city. why didn't i mean, as much as just put it very well. i mean it's really difficult to see at home

precaution with a lot of his businesses imply on to on basically be sacrificed adults all face failed on such as you know, so, i mean, i see true, true pol taking all the dimensions was the 1st one is on that, i mean, bulk of was clearly an instrument of partials form that was, you know, given vote is going on. now that's probably most of the baltimore, most nervous to remain in a rush of them. have to sign contracts with d m o d and all the time. how many of them do you think will choose to sign a contract with the russian military or with a majority to be loyal to to for goshen. so i can pop singles. the not tells you i couldn't even tell you by the vent 25000 does precaution um, mobilized for the insurance and searching. see over the last uh, 2 days and that goes on everything that you call and he has under his, um,

come on off, but i also don't think they should get too much on sort of tied up with the, the actual numbers. it's small, it's sort of days long term strategy that supports puts an end for college and might have in mind. and i think one of the key dangers obviously is that, um, sort of a bargain or whatever off the goes and retains control over the next a transform itself into some kind of long standing on an international mass. more of source on visual because he has no choice of any kind was suspended for international shipping. the chain rule switching provides find a thing like that. and then you throw that into the value of one of the 12 weeks that we see in a number of those countries in sub saharan africa that jeff already mentioned. but actually countries in asia and maybe even less than america. i mean, that really does not fully devolve for stability as little as logic, broader to practical sense and instruction. and i'll ask you about the impact on

the war in ukraine in just a moment. because as we've heard, wagner was really instrumental in a russia taking back back back mode, for example, in the east. but i want it to come to say and ask you so great about the long term strategy for present to team here. now you, you know him, you've worked with him. what is he thinking right now as to what to do next after this crisis has been confronted with? uh, just what, what uh, just one, what about uh, just was to declare to be great. i think uh we will have to walk the dogs now 11, and then a girl reaches for i think now we agree will be somebody done last. so these are best meals today of keeping cuz a glory ends is the names f less. how about to be independent from k goes on, and that's about negative. it would be uh, created a new one for a bite, but it was, i'm just using cause use it as sources which still walk through the opposite car.

and then ajax, then it will be was because, because a new business, a global project that was really set by a, you're getting a bit of going. so to be in fact, so i'm going to go with the model of the sage on the last 2 like 2 minutes, which i'm, uh, i think, uh, it's like, you know, ease, uh no difficulty at all or some kind of existence or crisis. because the stand the stand is that as a huge both why don't use pull up brands as it put? sure. uh we use uh, almost uh, 1000 minutes. it, it'd be high call speech. it was, but it was up for com, salt lake ridge, almost. com. through the moscow and they think that to look up for ha, i must come i. so let's see to my flight is the sub d h. ok. it's not what i should do, not use that these good. think around. there is an excuse me to kind of some change

just so how are we going to see and overall of the defense ministry and in the military you think and uh, i, i think, uh, it should be a big change not on the, with the customer with us, but generally it was, this was in your credit, see how things are being praised. so it was a choice and he's a fool stop this war by accepting america, you must or to use very talk whooping. that is to read this war and can do missions. this was yes, it's not acceptable. okay, let me ask katrina doc see about this as like, he says he expects a change in the war in ukraine and promotion. made a public statement this denouncing the anti war in ukraine on saturday, and it's fundamental pretext as a lie. he said, how could this change the overall dynamics of the conflict in ukraine? now, i think the really looking at for goes in statements looking at the way his presence

has. persona has been received by the russian people. this is a monumental moment uh, facing the russian state because what he was saying, it wasn't just his usual criticism of the ministry of defense. he really unpacked, criticized and took down the rationality and has put forward to justify the war and the 1st place. rush as a country where the media is very tightly controlled to and very closely guards the narratives on both domestic and international policy that are portrayed domestically that are basically forced upon the people. and now you have a credible figure, an inside or who's been involved in the war effort coming out and just taking a per the entire rational for the war. okay. country that is all the exhausted with

it and looking at the rates failures that is a huge blow to most cows possession, stefan. what will be the immediate effects on the war and ukraine in your long term? a boat short term? i think that is already a clear sense of disappointment on the crate insight that the chaos in russian couldn't continue for some time. between then, obviously it has created a much stronger and most it can affect kendall paternity for ukraine to really make some type of a and then con condo offensive. and i think in the longer term for me about the events in brush over the past on 12 to be types of indicate it's very clear that it's not becoming even more obvious that this is a role of that point and can often. and i think the also have significantly increase that you find will actually be able to change all of x, y, and so that's on the battlefield, falls to a much improved negotiation position. should never come to 2 talks. the green can't

most go directly. the stuff on foreign policy had an interesting piece out which said that this mutiny is the beginning of proteins and do you share that view? i think at the moment it's a whole lot of speculation and you mean by be the 1st to admit that i participate in this connection? i think it's really difficult to forecast on even over the next months to 6 months. the, you know, beyond that was the executive, this will mean for all charlotte basically means from the power structures in the crime and ok. so if they come out and confirmed that and a very close and so can office advise is actually exercise. ok. so give me a call, i'll give you the last word. what does this mean for russia and it's standing on the international stage. what does the future look like? if you're sure you're going to go? yeah, because there is a cover of the printer to assess center about uh what,

it's for sure as a cadet and we'll have to change the support we see. because uh, is useful us here is a create a tool based program. but what, what specific would be change? we still don't know yet. and um, a lot of people in the class i believe is that which in this would be not school or in a box star in the restaurant. and we can sort stop special, need it to the patient is stage sent me a roar. bottom the 301. and your browser will be what should be okay, we'll leave it there. thank you so much. shit. a lot of questions obviously that need to be answered, but i thank you for helping us shed light on some of the immediate ones taking my call, stefan wolf, katrina dogs. he thank you all for joining us and thank you as well for watching. you can always watched this program again any time by visiting our website at all

and just see or dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page, has facebook dot com forward slash a inside story. of course you can join the conversation on twitter handle is that a great inside story from me for the back to board? the whole team here in doha. thanks watching bye for now. the the lead you'll come to the onto the page is a special moment for any football. to do it is a policy. the enrollment is

a remarkable achievement for building legend medic continental and produces honey solved. yeah. who broke through social and political barriers to inspire a generation of female players across the middle east. football rebels. that's do it. on the l g 0. where is the western agenda heading? that's the g 7. really even matter anymore. who's more electable, joe biden? or donald trump or journalist in the media undermining our society. can americans cross their supreme court is not corrupt. the critic who look us politics, the bottom line, against all of these products to new and children track across the funding to get school. the school was demolished on sunday when it's ready for, for school days, that in the early hours of the morning, they left nothing behind. i heard the sound of the 9th of my mom, what's happening. she said my school had been demolished in the past as well as

accused. it's just not having a building permit on my soul kind of thing. and pub requests in this area are rejected. very cared about the students. so why they didn't give us admission to say, not only has their education been disrupted, and then also been massively effective psychologically. the a. terry, exhausting though, how the top stores on i'll just say are heavily mercenaries belonging to the wagner could have withdrawn from the russian city. a rest of them done. it follows a deal that hold to the rapid advance on musket. they were just 200 kilometers south of the capital. wagner lead that you've got any precaution hasn't been seen in public since saturday evening. but sharing clouds saw him off from the last of under your secretary state antony blinking. this.