act and now we go to a situation where a preaching is just spoken and said that she is his, do whatever it was cold at the time with the group is, is going to spend, how is this going down with, with, with people that what's the reaction being like well it's, it's hard to gauge. this speech is a has finished just just minutes ago. but i can say that so probably a little russians with breathing, a sigh of relief from the presidential spokesman dmitri pet scope. describe this as a site before as a speech that would be best to me defining full russia. i think we're good on say that's not the case. i think we can say this is destiny. the finding full for goes in and football. now, there was a lot of speculation as to what exactly this this speech these now could have. would it be some sort of mobilization? would it be a, you know, crack down perhaps on this project,

but it's your company to pressing charges against the gates for goes in. but this is just confirmed again the, the, the news over the weekend. but the negotiations behind closed doors mean immunity. a full propulsion though, again, we have to express that of course, he's still when a technically still under investigation that was officially announced off the mutiny was, uh, what was stopped. it was quelled that the charges will be dropped the suit so much . those charges are still formerly in place. so well the speech certainly give some power to use to what's happening. there was still a questions and all that as to how that is going to work. how can a man, whose was it in russia all charges community and under investigation be allowed to be in the neighboring states? a part of the union states a restaurant, but it was a long side, thousands of homes, soldiers and the heavy military equipment. um, how exactly uh that plays out is certainly going to be a question too many russians, but certainly i saw it released i think so many that expected something out fall.

great. so whatever that may be, that this has been, as i say, destiny to find him up for russia, but so full precaution as of august suddenly. and how much of a distraction would you say this will be for trips, the russian troops fighting in ukraine? well certainly there is a lot of food, but this could create some, some confusion and some difficult on the ground because of course of walk. and that has been a key fighting force and you train for the criminal alongside the russian, all the russian soldiers on the now he is like a buck moods, particular on the blanks, according to precaution, his wagner pride as held on to the tower tree. often we begin to the city of best modes where allegedly members of the russian on forces, even perhaps some elite units, apparently flat and exposed the flank. so there was a little criticism directed with the russian id from precaution over the last 2

weeks. at the defense, when is the saga showing go at cheapest off a general uh, garage them off as to how they've let down the russian forces. the lot of good criticism about how this war, this, this conflict, the special operation of the problem in close it has been waged so, so it is, comes out a bad time for the russian. i mean, no least because of the quite encounter offensive. with the fighting for a slunk log and taken out of the equation, the regular troops, russian minister defense troops will have to move to fill those breaches. and perhaps for the pony inside, that's certainly going to galvanize them and perhaps to take advantage of what's been going on. that's something that so both the, the, the russian side, russian officials have said that this is what the enemies of russia also eugene could take advantage of this. and something that you play and officials have also said that this is an indication of the chaos in russia, a sign of weakness, and a saw that we need to push on,

apply more pressure. so certainly this isn't going to make things any easier on the russian on forces as far as you can explain right now. then. okay, thank you very much indeed with the patient use this. pretend speech where you said the machine is, can join the army or go to bend arrears. thank you. to know who does that spring in she ever times is in washington, dc. a and she had the effort today was from present, barton was moment to, to distance himself and all the western allies from anything was going on in russia . a series of reasons why, because immediately i'm clearly rusher isn't adverse for you. if the u. s. b, u. s. is alone reco them over. craig need, is it? it doesn't like, but it comes, that message has been look, you know, we know you're looking at us, but it wasn't god, this is an internal russian matter. all of us. we know we, we didn't have anything to do is we were just watching it. we were just watching it . and indeed, we were told that bite and held several calls with the western alliance. say look, don't say anything about this. we're just going to watch this. we don't want to get

to have any suggestions that we're supporting, the valve, the group overturn over trying vladimir version or something, some sort of attempt of whatever we we then what actually did did happen to above. the group says that this was simply an internal matcher. about military and military policy and you can sort of see why because the volunteer group is a site suppose a terrorist organization according to the us, not us is often used and suppose that enemies in the world to fight the games of adversaries in the past. and there's another reason why i think they've kept on saying that this time. it really wasn't, it really wasn't tough. i think what we're, so we're just saying we're buying these comments. i know we have john car being the national security adviser to speak at the white house an hour or 2 ago. i'm look at this it's, it's fascinating. it really seems like the bluff had been pulled off the wall. that's all the rhetoric about how food must go and put in is a terrible job as i've listened everything else. you sort of see here that i actually liked the suggestions of other other relieved, but this is oh, but let's move on. so don't cubby says we have good direct communications with the

russians over the course of the weekend. we expect that to continue going forward. i'm bad when aust, he actually said, raising change in russia is known to us policy. i think it's better is despite all the bluffs that we here for. yeah. okay. so i was gonna say, so do you think that that so a kind of way in that view is sort of best of the devil you know scenario as. ready briefly we hear so much from the tree from former officials. they are, i mean, it was all the cheering all over the last few days. so this is great. booted will finally be resigned, doesn't matter who will, will ever try. and because obviously we want you to run a new car, almost, nation pigeon, despite all the for the cable. he, you sound bites. there isn't a when, as long as you actually understand how russia works, but he isn't some watercraft. just given edicts the state as me, i, you know, i am the power and everything else. he really is a, someone who's able to balance all the factions that we see will come out of the

woodwork over the last few days. and without him it's, i'm clear who could do that, and i know you're going to remember him give the volunteer group. and if it's really had been a challenge to pollutants power, who would have been the key thing is in, in russia who would have been supporting this, it wouldn't be people who would save it, put on the housing, been tough enough on your crime. but then most of military equipment is going to the fight and so, so, so this is really exposing that's holland as to the level of the rhetoric we got from the us and the fund. the trick off here about your be careful what you wish to it may not be what you want to. it could be someone who's actually, you know, much more extreme for something we, we know that they're always balancing their resources are being by themselves. but by presume so, you know, you, you have to be very careful when we hear um the us talk about the possibility of pushing big, overthrown or opposition that talking about bad guys. they don't talking about

a dynamic opposition within russia, which could be far more complex and follow how still to the us. so i think you get that sense from those who actually took some scale, who probably aren't shift them understanding about russia. we don't just took up in comic book sound bites about, put him about the power structure that i could you give a sense of that some, some sense of relief actually in dc right now. she advertising. thank you very much indeed. but i know, hawkins is that law office in most cases is in the statement to president putin. a said that he didn't know, she mentioned progression by name to the. but he did say that the foxes from wagner would be about to relocate to betters if they wanted, or they could sign a contract with the defense ministry and how appealing would signing a contract. the defense miss would be compared with working for volume and give us some, some context for how different these organizations. oh,

well the, the russian i'm, it is made a big effort to, to recruit, to recruit a contract solid just professional soldiers at to find a new crane over the last the months over. the last is a contract. soldiers at the m o. d, u receive very high salaries, much higher than the salaries on average. and russia were, you know, salaries, great salaries, even compared to most ago. so suddenly, the prospect of a joining the russian army over that off to you on hall has gotten much better, much more appealing than the russian. i'm of the of claim that they've had thousands of volunteers signing up to flight. um only other schools for goals and, and a statement that is said that i think believe he said around 5 percent or something less than 10 percent of his walking to find his took up the idea to so on contracts with the m o. d. and certainly when just a couple of weeks ago, this news was announced, the old volunteer is only exemplary forces fighting in the mass. and ukraine had to

sign contracts with the russian id that idea of what just rejected absolutely, outright buy for goals. and he said that's not going to happen. that certainly was one of the triggers. according to him, in the statement they released for his actions over the weekend. he said that on the 1st of july, it was intended to, despite involved with, to destroy baldwin. and initially he said, as we heard and that statements he intended to march to, to ross close to handing or with symbolism, the weapons, the military hardware. and when they were met with force, they then decided to go on to most good. that was his version of events, but certainly i think given the choice and give them the criticism of progressing towards the way this uh so cool, especially with the shop ration has been conducted by the criminal accusing, the russian topped bras, dressing generals of throwing men into the meat rhonda, throwing them to that that's he certainly will be encouraging people to come and

stay with him and so on with him. how that plays out with them. what i list have said that the wagner has used human wave tactics and stuff with very high casualties. when taking cities such as best move, that remains to be seen how those, those things play out, but certainly involving a lot of emotion and energy is offering a lucrative contracts. liquid save conditions. but also of course, it's a very uh, is about that you risk drop, it's illegal black hole. it's illegal gray area. and certainly now the more exposed that under the watchful eye, the criminal use them as a, as a risk, as something out of control is at least count them. so we'll have to see what up to see is the on. so, but certainly the initial thoughts from for goals and all the minority, all wagner for it is, would be willing to go over this on contracts with the russian emoji. and although it puts in his notes specifically mentioned to me in the statement and he's sounds

as though he's going to continue with the dia, web i, wagner. people are allowed to go to beneficial or, or during the on me what about because and himself who put in as a so give me goshen foot for this stunt it's, it's hard to say it is the on. so we just don't know what the, the most unpleasant and so intentions on what his thoughts saw. certainly what happens over the weekend wouldn't be taken and likely to be taken if we were to speculate very possibly by the president's progression, of course, was a close ally, a come for all the food didn't. who knew the president tools by back from the 990 the time in st. petersburg. and he received the nickname of boots. in this case, a rep who didn't shift because this company wants provided services for the company . and that's how he might at least paul to his full shooting. so certainly this betrayal wouldn't be viewed as a stop was a back by the rest of the president. and that's certainly how he described it. how

willing he will be to forgive. we taught speculate, we don't know what goes on uh, you know, inside the criminal behind closed doors. but suddenly i said the crumbling appears to meet wagner, to fulfill that bit of objectives that political objectives and project power. so, however uprooting has taken this, whether he will forgive pre goes in or not, he'll have to buy that. so with the criminals interest and certainly would what you're describing as rushes, what interest as well, and just how that balance will play out. we'll have to see and in terms of other changes that might happen to me new it wouldn't be spoke earlier. there was some suggestion that might be several statements or the several elements to, to the information coming out of the kremlin. what about the, the top ross in the army? are they? is there any suggestion that they might, they might be a bit of a reasonable again,

this is speculation at this point we did here. the room was on to the ground from wall correspondence earlier that that could be some sort of re shuffle. that hasn't happened. there's been no announcement of that. and suddenly, earlier today, the message from the kremlin was that so um, things on moving, everything is fine. we saw images projects that all of the defense minutes, the suckers showing the on a visit to the front lines in that plane board, some sort of a middle tree i crossed going out and speaking to come on was in the field. but that was allegedly a yeah, a recent visit and state media. describe that visit's as a, as a, as a visit to the front lines. wesley gu described the supply of munitions, the supply weapons the on getting it for you. so cool. especially mutual peroration, so certainly the me, it's been projected is everything is mobile. the defense minister is getting about

his job. he's in place there is no we shuffle. there's no change. having said that, there's also speculations from rushing more correspondence, which obviously are links to the criminal pro coming tomorrow, the to top bras, generals, and rush it as defense minutes to show you and see if a stronger us some of we'll be getting to the kremlin for some sort of meeting, and in fact uh yes, that's a, that's, as i said, speculation at this point we'll, we'll get that confirmed from official sources as that comes in, in fact. so i can tell you from russian media right now, just as i'm speaking to you coming in. now, pushing is allegedly beginning of meeting right now with the leave is all the, the minutes we broke. and the secuity block, i should say, i'm not involved in the general prosecute across and off the head of the em. but there, that's the russian, internal police, domestic police color color stuff as well as minister sugar f as be built up to

boot nicole as all 12 a bus that each of these old very top figures in the russian secuity operators. so that is allegedly going on right now, according as i say to some russian media, whether they'll be further announcements of that meeting. we don't know, but certainly if that is the case, if that is confound the pollutants holding these groups right now at this late hour, quarter to 11 here and most of the time. certainly we could expect some more announcements in the near future. i don't know who it is. thank you very much indeed. so can we get us up to speed that from most good time being thank you to the word house we didn't about an hour ago with national security council spokesman . john could be explaining to the us use diplomatic channels to communicate with moscow during the mutiny. he also said the us was, quote, not taking sides in what you've described as an internal matter. we also made clear to all around us in partners that the united states was not involved and would not

get involved in these events. and that we view them as internal russian matters. we delivered that same message to the russians themselves through appropriate diplomatic channels. i'll emphasize as the present day just a little bit ago, but it's too early to speculate on the impact these events might have or to reach any definitive conclusions except one course. and that is that no matter what happens next, we're going to stay closely coordinated with those allies and partners. and we're gonna continue to stay in with ukraine now about the to out. so fund associate professor at the national defense university. he's in washington dc. thank you very much indeed for joining us. and we just have that she confirmation and the last few minutes of it to present pretend is holding the meeting with the heads of russian security services, including the minister of defense. what do you make of all this evening's events solid? so a disaster for point, you know, i don't think you absolutely expected of he,

he's shocked items. nothing like that happened to in the russia, since i would say 1917. but kind of a, when brush i came to the edge of the civil war. and what's the most remarkable thing that reward him for the 1st time? actually career decides the very war and he expressed i'm confident that those sentiments exist within the russian military. the different of the exist inbox now because he wouldn't have done it without support from the officers and soldiers involved, the majority of bob and are actually join him on the march. so the consequences for putting a tremendous think about it. the majority of boxes are all formal convicts. if the not going to be recorded, what are they going to do? are they going to come back to a peaceful life in russia? can we start another new to me? another aspect, people, actually, the russian people didn't care. i mean today he ludicrously claim that the russian

people supported him. people did not go, god did not go out on the streets and protests. uh, people actually welcomed those uh, soldiers, so boxes or even the real stuff in the role here. so i think he is a consulting on the multiple levels with the internal police, which is military command. he is super afraid of another mutiny. and i think is trying to solve that and we don't see some of those shuffling. i think in the leadership of the army in the police. so tell me that what i mean, that the statement we've had this evening from present, appreciate the saying, knew most of the wagner patriots put upholding his promise that he's so good to allow them to go to batteries. oh, i see says i will keep my promise. they will be nice. good to better as old a. can we join the army? what? why did you think you decided to take that approach now or was it

a holding position? what, what, what had you interpreted? so he is, he doesn't have a choice, he's going to think about it. there's an army of $20000.00 man. he basically created the live via phone. and i don't think those people really have a legions to russia. they used to have a legions to precaution. they made very good money. many of them are convicted or serious criminals. so it's a very frightening situation. he's afraid of them. if he says, what is he going to jail? 25000 people. oh, put them all back to jail. they not going to surrender. they have all arms, so he needs to find the way to neutralize that, but that's a very difficult task. and that's entirely schooled by creating that a toner was basically military organization which did not of report directly to the, to the minister of defense. and what effect do you think this will have a funding on how they prosecute the war and ukraine?

well, that's definitely very good news for ukrainians because of the bumps that group. oh, actually uh, well, did very well from the military perspective and ukraine at least much better than uh, than the regular army. so and most of the tutorial games were um be the result of uh, the wagner group. oh cuz they are cubic as of they of course of course, was there a portal so you are, it's very likely that put in then one way or another. we'll get rid of bucks. now, in the sense she wants to record some of with soldiers who didn't participate in the mutiny, but they sold a report directly to the minister of defense. but if he gets rid of the 1015000 them there. i mean, that's great, that's for ukraine because the russian army, the, the entire russian invading force will be significantly because,

because we see that the russian army doesn't then work with more, all of, i mean, doesn't know. i mean, it didn't me chewed up much in one and a half a year of the war. the tutorial again. so pretty minor and just to go back to the meeting that's happening or has been happening was the heads of the russian security services and including the minister defense. what are your thoughts on, on who the key players are at this stage and what might happen to them? well, i mean, when the analyst has been the same likely that we can might get rid of troy, go. 4 well, i think that's a possible scenario of but no try to weigh. so the garage you most most likely will stay because he's the very symbolic feet, the general garage him up and basically the, the main commanding general. so, but i, you know, i'm afraid to predict, but um, well, of predicting anything specific. but i would say that to be able to see some of the

shuffling most likely because she needs to blame the military or defense for that. then also the minister of defense and another very important thing. look, they weren't able to walk without any resistance from last off of like almost to moscow. i believe they were like 200 miles away from moscow or even less when they stop, which means the pressure inside actually doesn't have any. uh oh, serious face all the best or types are ukraine right now and that opens a hold of a pen or a box for for any other mutinous. thank you very much indeed deputy. oh, so feel nauseous that. thank you. thank you. david darrow, she's a full monday to operations director at the george chief of staff and full of pentagon director of arabian peninsula affairs. he joins us from washington. thanks so much for being with us. what did you make of putin's approach this evening and

his tow? nope, over this whole mentioning business, i just don't get it. i mean, putting is clearly on the back for it. he clearly has to re establish just authority. i don't think he's doing it now. and the fact that in a promotion has been putting out a video, you know, justifying his actions. you know, it just makes to look weak. he's in a bad position. it's pretty much obvious to anybody that his minister defense is commander of the armed forces. all of these people are corrupt and confident are both and that, that corruption and in confidence goes all the way down. but to have somebody actually say that and to down uh, 7 russian aircraft and, you know, make it within, you know, 80 miles of moscow. that's just unbelievable. so i think i think we're going to see a lot of other things like this uprooting trying to re establish normal seat. but it's going to be a long, hard slog. and how does it get to work if, if wagner,

and some of its fighters based in batteries, what kind of freight would that post a well see radically, it wouldn't pose any kind of a threat because they would be in bella risk, but they'd be there without their weapons, um, i don't see why they would agree to go there unless they were afraid for their lives, unless they felt that you know, if they were t mobile, i sent back to their home towns in twos and threes. so they'd be arrested in twos and threes. um, so you know, once they lose their military structure and their military equipment, walker loses a lot of their effective this. and they'll just be another group of exiles, you know, around the world complaining about moscow, but not in a position to do much at just what it, what do your expertise on the ribbon prints or for other than that? no, just that to appreciate that russia's and president present as hell to phone conversation with the in the review a, the school into the criminal mr. stroke just now. and he had all the conversations

with all that he does in the region earlier. what do you read into that, that sort of phone diplomacy at this point? and i think i think he's trying to reassure people where he has interest. so his interest with the way he is a lot of financial stuff goes through there and then there's some elements of coordination on oil prices in the energy market. the u. e is kind of a safety valve for the russian regime of people who are worried about russia invest through to buy for the most part. there's a lot of property ownership, things of that nature. so i think he's basically say, look, i'm still in charge and try to prevent a run on russian assets in places like the way what you expect from the, the mission that you're having with us, the top ross and the security operations at the moment. what you predicted, oh boy i to, yeah. and i wouldn't want to be one of those guys. look any other organization. you know, if, if you didn't have the corruption and probably the mutually reinforcing webs of

corruption, administer, or defense and the commander of the, our forces we've been fired probably a year ago if not, to 14 months ago. it's obvious that deficiencies of the russian military and the only reason why these figure. ready is, are there i think is because, you know, there's, there's financial reasons and, you know, put wants people, he thinks he can control and manage. i think he's going to tell these guys, look, we are um, you know, we had an exit central thread here and none of you stood up in an effective manner . none of you helped me out. and so, you know, if you think you are going to survive and i'm not going to survive, think again, you are part of my organization. if i go, you go and you need to step up your game. i think that will be his message. that david, deborah shuffled the nature operation, start to the joint, cheapest, often from a pen to interrupt, to reading, please refresh. thank you very much indeed for joining us. thank you. and i'll

bring you more on this breaking story in just a moment with the rest of the day's news. in the meantime, you can always catch up on our website address and that is our 0. don't come all the details of christian's speech today. and of course of the mutiny that led to this moment, please stay with us. i'll be back in just a couple minutes. thanks so much for watching. bye for now, the the challenge is with

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