emily's tragedy entwined with a violent chapter in the country's history. when you see the blood, you say is that going to be my blood that was to a knife long to search for answers and close finding salon. witness on out to the united nations experts believe israel's military assault against palestinians, and janine and the occupied west bank may be a work fine. but what's behind this assess? and will anyone face international justice? this is inside storage. the hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much in june and one of the fiercest assaults and 2 decades on the occupied westbank is really forces in just 2 days

brought death and widespread destruction tools you need. at least 12 palestinians were killed in thousands more displaced from vision in refugee camp. the tactics included air strikes and is rarely sniper shooting from palestinians homes. civilians bore the brunt of the attacks with hospitals and vital facilities among the target. thousands of people already refugees have been left homeless. once again forced the fleet. you in human rights experts say on the 1st examination, the assault on jeanine may constitute a work fine. we'll be discussing shortly with our guest, the legal implications of this. and if anyone might ever face justice, the 1st this update from the human genie, people here tell us that if they try to us, keep one holder of the today is really assault on the refugee camp. and they're faced with another. the infrastructure has been totally destroyed by these really forces, not only the roads, but you're talking about electricity and water. do you think people to rely on bulk

of water or some of them with carrying water in the buckets and bringing them home? the officials in the account are trying to put some sort of an emergency plan to give them a little bit of electricity. but we're also talking about people whose homes have been to, to be destroyed and demolished. others have been homeless because they cannot come back and live in their homes. so they're relying on the help of others of 3 years. it's a state basically we're talking about the refuge account people who have been displaced already from the homes. we've met people who told us that, you know, we, our whole life has been about displacement with refugees. some of them said, you know what, we're not leaving. and we want to die here in our counseling. you hear a lot of difficult stories by palestinians. some of them are relying on handouts on a because the a read that you're talking about in progress, communities that cannot afford what are the and some of them were already using and

relying on the health of age. if you're talking about hospitals as well, those have been attacked by 3 the forces by, but it's by to your gas, as well as air strikes your hospitals. so whatever you go here in the comp, people have very difficult stories to share and they want the words to know that these really a soul has traumatized them. and their children for inside story means that but he, janine the occupies westbank. international law uses 3 criteria to define a war crime that includes launching an attack in an area that can cause widespread damage, injury or destruction. attacks on hospitals or clinics that are not military targets . and depriving civilians of what's considered objects indispensable to their survival. as a method of warfare. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guests in the note all day political analyst and former spoke to him for the was sending

a task force on public diplomacy and the time city of tanya, francesca albany is a special rapid tour on the situation of human rights in the palestinian territory occupied since 1967 and in melbourne. geoffrey roberts, in the founding head of dowdy street chambers and a former you in war crimes, judge a warm welcome to you all and thanks so much for joining us on inside story today nor let me start with you today. the jeanine refugee camp has been the target of recurring and intensifying attacks by is rarely forces over the past couple of years. what's different about this latest assault? i think what i'm to mentally different about this assault is that it brought back memories of the 2002 invasion. it was a the number of his written, the soldiers that were involved was much larger. the number of armored vehicles, the incursion deep into the account was, you know, revisited the trauma that the residents there had lived through about 20 years ago

. when about near the 60 palestinians were killed during that incursion. hundreds of homes were leveled to the ground and this was preceded by is rarely promises of increased violence, of exacting apprise on the janine refugee camp of taking revenge if you will, on that account that is blamed for so many things. so of you know, to see palestinian refugees leaving that that of night was nothing but the clothes on their back because they had no other alternative was collectively traumatic for palestinians. not just for the residents of the app. it brought back, you know, uh the, the stories of, of the 1st refugees of 1948. and that's why this incursion, i think, is a turning point in many ways in the already very inflammatory inflamed situation on the ground. francesca, you and other, you and experts issued a statement saying that israel's latest military operation against palestinians in

janine may constitute a war crime. why was this assessment made so swiftly after the assault? yes, we reached this assessment, looking at both the context and the specifics of this ration looking at the motive . although the motive being tension is not necessarily relevant as you, i do one can. the one can understand from the definition of where crime that you gracefully good at the beginning of this discussion. but these are things that people start getting terrorist until an individuals. um, so this needs to be impacted because one east will have the right to ensure that security to be citizens from any fact including those arising from categories. anyone intentionally targets tvs to violence organization, into purchasing all the political or you do an article to be held accountable for

the students and these raise of accidental issues, decisions to be made here. why is that? he's ready to use the security with the security of the time existing, which was meant over 56 years displacement and the rest of instead of a patient's home, the nation's house, evictions. and what has happened in the recent months? um and what i have under my one year 10 year as a special level toward concerns that the context mentors. i'm the international people who take above. i'm not put too many frequency there. there is to think of ukraine, where the ukranian people are resisting the uh, any legal to pay some and then legal aggression, any legal was launched by, by russia on the ground up such determination. so resistance against the oppressive regimes including google, you know, or across to regina is recognized as an aspect of the right of self determination.

and so at least not going to exclude the default of scene. it's michael needs crimes. it doesn't come to own. the value is that they might use, they should be held accountable for that. but the a match being the golly be of this out to, to not be confused with the legitimate details of the situation toward which they are directed. and the 2nd document that this is something we consider our demo dollars an aerial bombardment, with a ground environment that has resulted into damage to 80 percent of the, of the holes of the housing units. how much to see be living trust structure targeting all of the hospitals, sewage, and this essential basics to 1000000000. the cd instead of that says we're kind of doing access to the, to the wounded these to close, the tooth was trying to. so this is why we said, seeing if there is no proportionality, no distinction in these large scale use of legal force for what would

otherwise beam and enforcement will gratian me. jeffrey from your vantage point, is there enough evidence now from this latest operation ends, you need to warrant an investigation into potential war crimes and do you think there will be one, you know, that's because of the i think to do the is read the job which is blog or independent investigations the do it themselves? so it was back 10 years ago or so i'll put ration cost lead housing. so the slip bucks a 400 movie investigations were over by the use ray, the all me all the end of the day, only one. this was sent to prison and that was for the ceiling. a credit card. nothing to do with the operation center. it's not acceptable as one of the

participants will do the investigation. a mass didn't do any investigation, despite certifications or crimes on the other side. so probably let me know where the 1st problem is to s k y. and by any investigation that we will lock it because it's rare, boss independent to do this together. if it's simple, there are the payments and they have to be seriously considered. a refugee principle is a place where which should be protected because will basically protect somebody from the was consequences as well. but these really mean says that the weapons that they were born was

the old face to face. well, did they find any they to 12 had a studious and just a say all people would taylor's or, but do they were quite a few people and they said, well, the people who would dare say this is pretty honest status, but it's not. it's something that has to be investigated with people to see the records for a reference at all to taking alcohol to get this is rosa. i speak with the onset. yeah. he is, was the purpose of this attack, which he take this in destroying the i mean 18000 people had

to flee where they were destroy, walk with us. and of course they have, well, this is really will have to do the say in, i imagine 3 months time, but who we, it's this terrible face that was expressed in the oh, by an english who would cool. he said that i probably know what hold to $200.00 and this even at least um, do you go in route? uh and that seems to be too. so ha, a situation where there is no, no is a situation which can only be changed by international agreement. by the national conference,

it sees the 2 state solution is out of the window. we have to find another solution that is very difficult at the time when the most powerful crimes, of course, is being committed by a coach. and that is in, in you quick the nor jeffrey is saying that there should be an investigation, but that there won't be an investigation. it won't be an independent investigation . i want to get your thoughts on this. the pilot saying authority is urging the international criminal court to start holding is really war crimes accountable. is that something that you for see happening? well, i mean it's difficult to, to predict, and i don't want to sound like i'm, i'm lashing out at the, uh, i see. see, but i think it's worth noting that since this prosecutor came, i had it the, the, the, the i, c, c. he has been new on palestine and he's downgraded an investigation that is

supposed to be open into a possible war crimes in palestine and basically to oblivion. he does not talk about palestine. he does not comment on clear and great violations of international law happening in palestine even downgraded the amount of budget allocated to the investigation. but his office was supposed a supposedly opened up some time and go into the situation in palestine. i think, you know, as much as we talked about the independence of the court and as much as we talked about independent conditions of inquiry. and there have been many into attacks by israel on, on palestinians. it boils down to political will. and the fact that there are states who provide the budgets for the i c c and for other international bodies. basically hijacked the process and who, by indirectly or directly extort these buddies into

a providing cover for his related providing you with immunity and continuing to time for it and protect it from any form of accountability. we've seen that happen time and time again. we think entries right to the i c. c, against the idea of accountability, even though they pushed that same court to open an investigation into war crimes, possibly committed in ukraine when neither the ukraine nor russia were members of the courts of the blue city. that is applied exceptionalism, that countries like the united states and all that has been cyst on when it comes to is real, is really quite, you know, job dropping and it's very consistent. we see it a year and then you're not just the i c, c, but every international for aware accountability at the is a possibility of francesca. um,

i want to get your response to this too because you heard newer. they were talking about the fact that it was, i believe in 2021. when the i c. c. opened a formal investigation looking at whether alleged war crimes had been committed by either was really forces or by how mouse and other palestinian armed groups. in the last couple of days, we seen a statement from the office of the pet prosecutor of the i. c. c. saying that he's continuously monitoring the palestinian situation. i'm curious, why is this all taking so long? i cannot speak with certainty, this is an answer and that should be given by the office of the for 6. use her. um, whatever the reason it's unacceptable. it's really pain the credibility of the court. i need to national prenatal address to send international justice with it because it continues to serve between the image of the international law. we don't think these treatments of the service will be minority, the technically of the west,

and the only way also to dispel these disability. the street to use all possible avenues without exceptionalism and without double sanders. so far, so far, the international criminal court has not been stopped, but there are 2 elements that would like to to bring to the discussion. why is that universal jurisdiction can also be piss you. it's through national quote, and this is an avenue that has been explored if that's failed, but it should not be to go to i do believe that this is still an opportunity to pursue justice, but also restoration of the 2nd element piece that restoring international. no, definitely make itself to international justice. there is a 3rd stage responsibility um that the other international east will be in the golly t o d o 2 basin is manifest. the youngest sation 5,

which is absolutely protein between down the international role is money. fast, circular cooling of rock, this is our link. your heart died 3, g is fully don't. you meant it? i did just enough to take decisive actions from an international community point of view from un member state if there was a paralysis of the un security council. individual states or group states should act on their own accord to use of, to recur to economic, political and diplomatic majors counter measures, a food by the un charter to bring these the situation to and that, and francisco. let me also ask you, i mean if, if what we're witnessing right now is the fact that universal jurisdiction is not being applied, or there is no other really sufficient mechanism by which to try to bring account ability of what stopping is real from essentially doing anything at once, i mean, even if they are being told that they are breaking international law,

i believe it's a political pressure. and um, and the reason general, i think that this is part of the parcel of the general nautical the in unity. i think it's in community the general in community that is granted to her as well, which is not gonna accept, you know, in a sense that there are many states in this world unfortunately which commit. a a bore in crimes and by any atrocity, pride and international violations. jeffrey, let me get your vantage point when it comes to international law, when it comes to international justice. um, will there be more international pressure put on is real uh will they feel like they can act with impunity? well, i love the country country, but he's acting with the gracious to prove it and doing the most damage at the moment is russia which has torn up the un charles and has him,

but he gives another cox. yeah. and these causing the crime hundreds every day. by bombing, the civilians, by the things that we can see on television. so it is acting was in the bathroom up nuclear weapons, which terrifies everybody. so we are in a very difficult state just a minute. and international justice has only come on in the last 20 or so. yeah, the quote is to building up the precedents. she's building up there and the movement they call touch russia, because each ease of member of the security council ridiculously can be to any action taken against the even the it to match the cravings

in that country with teaching baby. so this is not to say that the palace, the big uh any less than the ukraine victims is just the russia, as a member of the security council, has defied the international war. and so he's in a different situation with which as i say, he has solomon who spring there was a very cool development. a week ago, it was only the 24 of june, which was the day the directions seem to come a par 5 we gave this and result. but to the commander of the use re the me, i am the agent. she a and a couple of others see here the piece was attached to successful at news. right?

we do so it seems to be taken is rare. and it may well be you've got a country where to never had such a bind, racist government where many members of the nation. yeah. the whole. so the extra 100 of the staging site, and this is the stage of the country, which is quite enough to try to show appointments, to reach the crew gold. the supreme going to be as was one of the, uh, the says we one uh ship and back in use waiting constitution to i think, which came to get was uh, the 1st page of keeping israel and other countries look

we see the restriction of moral let's face it all, we've had hundreds of years and get them to prison is huge. they destroy, it says leave me a call as well with children and it be, you know, some civilians are going to be to well yeah for you i'm, i'm sorry to jeffrey, i'm sorry to interrupt. you were just starting to run out of time. i nor i, i want to ask you about one of the reasons why why we're seeing all this happened right now is, is the biggest reason we're seeing what's going on when it comes to janine happening right now? is it because the current government is the most right when government and israel's history? i think that's definitely part of it because the ideology that drives this government is long but seeks elimination. and the best summation of palestinians are they, they make no secret of that. and if we can give them credit,

we can give them credit for being honest and forward of about what they plan to do in the occupied 3rd, $3.00, and $2.00 of the palestinian people. but i think you know, it, it just picking up on, on what your, what the judge was talking about. i think the fact that his real has in july, it impunity for so long and enjoy this protection from other countries for so long from any accountability as encouraged other countries to just say, well, you don't want this uh, these laws on these practices because of that and them, and we can violate the laws of war. and because we can't, because we have the power to because we have a veto of the israel, doesn't upset in the security council, but it has a very good representative of the us as use the veto power to protect is world more times at the security council than i'm any other subject um so as well knows it can literally get away with murder. there have been several reports documenting its

previous a war crimes in great violations. no accountability, 0 not just in terms of criminal accountability countries instead of applying sanctions instead of saying we are not going to deal with you as a normal law abiding state until you actually abide by the law. what are showering israel with political gifts, with more financial agreements with even military cool, on ration when this, this military stands accused of committing more crimes. and i think that's the 3rd party responsibility. a dimension of accountability that we need to focus on. and the international look opinion is prepared for that. people around the world are overwhelmingly fed up really with that double standard and with is real getting. we're getting away with all these violations because people understand that if you allow only to get away with bullying in one neighborhood,

then all the bullies and all the other in the hip neighborhoods will be encouraged me. francesco, we just have about a minute and a half left, but let me just ask you, what are the types of tactics and weaponry used by israel in this latest assault on jeanine that most concerned you and your colleagues in the area of the environment in the ground environment or in the ground, the tasks are both of concerns. i mean, i'm not a military expert, i look at the consequences and then i have the people centered approach. so and i look at what happened on the receiving end. as it was said, the full by others, and that the displacement of 4000 people, the destruction of homes, the destruction of sydney, didn't infrastructures whatever the means, which caused it. the use of those means expertise has resulted in a situation which is fremont passed it long ago and again it should be placed in it comes to examine it shouldn't be read. this is john cruz this drastically from the

day the structural violated spare me the lives of the policy in time. the conviction after 6 years and we being 100 years, so this procession. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much. all of our guest your day francesca alban is a and a jeffrey robertson and thank you to for watching because he the program again, any time by visiting our website. i'll just share a dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ag inside story. you could also during the conversation on twitter handle is at a j inside story for me in film and a whole team here. bye for now. the of the,

the 19 sixty's, the decade of change across the middle east and north africa in the 2nd of a 3 part series, l g 0. well, explores the explosion of some culture. intellectual as we're building new dreams. and the idea is because the revolutions of the 1964 and the political parts of the mind from music to tv, the poetry of protest and revolution, they make the 60s in the arab culture. oh no jews here when a war crime is committed is a kind of how does it follows that goes in the human rights investigator on his unprecedented journey to the french high court. there's a pretty place to make sure that information off to frank taking on the

arms trained it is fine for justice for innocent palestinians and their families made in front. oh no. just see if the clean up operations and care. so you in areas where the fuck seated residents like home dre clearing them up from their opponents and businesses, determined to pick up their lives. again, everything is covered in film. it was impossible to get through here until the flood waters went down. your creatures, russia committed a crime by destroying the cold good time, the coolness these floods. russia didn't realize. responsibility. as you can see, the floods here have receded, but some of the worst affected areas. house town. vitalia has lived on the banks of the english river for modem. dick gates, when the world have reached the threshold, then we started to run away. she shows us the flooding ultima. so the house leads us inside she to the photo. if i don't check struggles to hold for tears,

she knows. so despite the health she will come rebuilding her life is the war, rages will be a challenge. field was the so they don't carry johnson in the top stories on that. i'll just hear about the roost and present, says the leader, or the wagner. mastery group has returned to a rough spot, a deal allowing you've got any precaution to live in ex, solid, and other use in return for ends. and he's new to the last month. products on it because i think i told elders here he was forced to record the agreement to save lives. they took over all stuff on the gold plus to moscow and there was no attempt to.