of investigative journalism, this was a very and as hard as it would have been absolutely impossible to walk for anything like that before global exploits and discussion, the internet did not need to be the greatest to live master. it was in the history of the world, voices from different corners programs that open your eyes to an alternative view of the world today. not many people have seen this business to select on now to sierra united nations experts believe israel's military assault against palestinians. and janine, in the occupied west bank may be award for what's behind this assess, and anyone face international justice. this is inside storage, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much enjoy them. and one of the fiercest assaults in 2 decades on the occupied westbank israeli forces in just 2 days brought death and widespread destruction tools you need. at least 12 palestinians were killed and thousands more displaced from the janine refugee camp. the tactics included air strikes and is rarely sniper shooting from palestinians homes. civilians bore the brunt of the attacks with hospitals and vital facilities among the target. thousands of people already refugees have been left homeless. once again forced the fleet. you in human rights experts say on 1st examination, the assault on jeanine may constitute a war crime. we'll be discussing shortly with our guest, the legal implications of this. and if anyone might ever face justice, the 1st this update from the human jeanine, people here tell us that if they try to us, keep one holder of the to day is really assault on the refugee camp. and they're faced with another to the infrastructure has been totally destroyed by these really

forces not only the roads, but you're talking about electricity and water. do you think people to rely on both of water or some of them with carrying water in the buckets and bringing them home? the officials in the account are trying to put some sort of an emergency plan to give them a little bit of electricity. but we're also talking about people whose homes have been to, to be destroyed and demolished. others have been homeless because they cannot come back and live in their homes. so they're relying on the health of others of 3 years . it's a state basically we're talking about the refuge account people who have been displaced already from the homes. we've met people who told us that, you know, we, our whole life has been about displacement with refugees. some of them said, you know what, we're not leaving. and we want to die here in our counseling. you hear on lots of difficult stories bypassing and some of them are relying on handouts on

a because the a read that you're talking about and in progress communities, that's 10 off of fluids already. and some of them were already using and relying on the health of aids. if you're talking about hospitals as well, those have been attacked by 3 the forces by but it's by to your gas as well as air strikes your hospitals. so whatever you go here in the comp, people have very difficult stories to share and they want the words to know that these really a soul has traumatized them. and their children for inside story is that, but he, janine the occupies westbank. international law uses 3 criteria to define a war crime that includes launching an attack in an area that can cause widespread damage, injury or destruction. attacks on hospitals or clinics that are not military targets . and depriving civilians of what's considered objects indispensable to their survival. as a method of warfare to the. all right,

let's go ahead and bring in our guests in the new road. a political analyst and former spoke to him for the palestinian task force on public diplomacy and the time city of tanya. francesca albany is a special rapid tour on the situation of human rights in the palestinian territory occupied since 1967 and in melbourne. geoffrey roberts, in the founding head of dowdy street chambers and a former you in war crimes, judge a warm welcome to you all and thanks so much for joining us on inside story today nor let me start with you today. the janine refugee camp has been the target of recurring and intensifying attacks by is really forces over the past couple of years. what's different about this latest assault? i think what i'm to mentally different about this assault is that it brought back memories of the 2002 invasion. it was a the number of is there any soldiers that were involved was much larger. the number of armored vehicles, the incursion deep into the account was, you know,

revisited the trauma that the residents there had lived through about 20 years ago . when about near the 60 palestinians were killed during that incursion. hundreds of homes were leveled to the ground and this was preceded by is really promises of increased violence, of exacting apprise on the janine refugee count of taking revenge if you will, on that. com that is blamed for so many things. so, you know, to see palestinian refugees leaving that, that if night was nothing but the clothes on their back because they have no other alternative was collectively traumatic for palestinians. not just for the residents of that app. it brought back, you know, uh the, the stories of, of the 1st refugees of 1948. and that's why this incursion, i think, is attorney a point in many ways in the already very in slung,

to inflame situation on the ground. francesca, you and other, you in experts issued a statement saying that israel's latest military operation against palestinians in janine may constitute a war crime. why was this assessment made so swiftly after the assault? yes, we reached this assessment, looking at both the context and the specifics of this ration looking at the motive . although the motive, the intention is not necessarily relevant as you, i do one can, no one can understand from that definition, we're crying that you gracefully good at the beginning of this discussion, but he's real page that people start getting terrorist until an individuals. um, so this needs to be on the box because one is what has the right to ensure the security to be citizens from any fact including those arising from categories.

anyone intentionally targets tvs to violence organization in, in the perfect, all the political are you doing article should be held accountable by the students and he's ready. ready accidental issues, decisions to be made here. why is this rose use this even security with the security of the time existing, which has meant over 56 years displacement and the rest of instead of a patient's home, the nation's house, evictions. and what has happened in the recent months? um and what i have a set of under my one year 10 year as a special regulatory concerns that the context matters under international law. people who take a bomb, i'm not put domestic frequency there. there is to think of ukraine, where the ukranian people are resisting the uh, any legal to pay some and then the hell aggression annually. the launch device by rush all to ground up such determination. so,

resistance against oppressive regimes, including the oral press to routines, is recognized as an aspect of the right of self determination. so at least not going to exclude the default of students, michael needs crimes, it doesn't come to own the final. instead, they might use, they should be held accountable for that, but he a match the value of the doctor should not be confused with the limits. you have to team a seed of the situation towards which these are directed. and the 2nd element that this is something we can see there and target more dollars, an aerial bombardment, with a ground environment that has resulted into damage to 80 percent of the of the holes of the housing do needs to be of interest structure targeting all the all the hospitals, sewage, and this essential basic to be in a cd instead that says we're kind of doing access to the, to the wounded these, to close, the tooth was trying to. so this is why we said primo,

seeing if there is no proportionality nor distinction. in these large scale use of legal force for what would otherwise be and and false mental gratian. jeffrey, from your vantage point, is there enough evidence now from this latest operation ends, you need to warrant an investigation into potential war crimes? and do you think there will be one? no, that's because they advocated is the, is read the job, which is blog, or independent investigations. the so say was back 10 years ago. so i'll put ration cost lead housing. so the slip bucks, a 400 movie investigations were over by the use ray, the all me all the end of the day,

only one person was sentenced to prison. and that was for stealing a credit card. nothing to do with the operation. so it's not acceptable as one of the participants will do the investigation. i didn't do any investigation despite uh, vacation. oh crimes. on the other side. so probably let me know when the 1st problem is to s t a y and by an agent investigation. and that will not get because it's rare boss independent to do this today. but if it's simple, there are defendants and they have to be seriously considered a refugee camp. the principal is a or a place where we should be protected because will basically protect

the from the was consequences as well. but these really mean says that the weapons that they were born was the old face to face. well, did they find any they to 12 had a studio, just a say all people would care about 2, they were quite a few people and they said, well, the people who with terrorist says this is pretty 100 sexes, but it's not a, it's something that has to be investigated will be killed simply records for a reference at all to taking alcohol to get this is rosa. i speak with the onset. yeah. how much he is. was the purpose of this

attack, which he take this in destroying the i mean 18000 people had to flee where they were destroy, lock with us. and of course, they say, well, this is ray will have to do the se in, i imagine, 3 months time it will be, it's this terrible face that was expressed in the oh, by a lady who had cooled. he said that i probably know what the full shoot children there is a boost um do you go in route and that seems to be too. so ha, a situation where they're e is no, no. and is

a situation which can only be changed by international agreement by an international conference exceeds the 2 state solution is out of the window. we have to find another solution that is very difficult at a time when the moves are full crimes. of course we can reach it by coaching and it is in in you quick nor jeffrey is saying that there should be an investigation, but that there won't be an investigation that won't be an independent investigation . i want to get your thoughts on this. the pals saying authority is urging the international criminal court to start holding is really war crimes accountable. is that something that you for see happening? well, i mean it's difficult to, to predict, and i don't want to sound like i'm, i'm lashing out at the, uh, i says, fee. but i think it's worth noting that since this prosecutor came, i had it the,

the, the, the i, c, c. he has been new on palestine and he's downgraded an investigation that is supposed to be open into a possible war crimes in palestine and basically to oblivion. he does not talk about palestine. he does not comment on clear and great violations of international law happening in palestine even downgraded the amount of budget allocated to the investigation. but his office was supposed a supposedly opened some time and go into the situation. and that last time, i think, you know, as much as we talked about the independence of the court and as much as we talked about independence commissions of inquiry. and there have been money into a tax by israel on, on palestinians. it boils down to police. caldwell and the fact that there are states who provide the budgets for the i c c and for other international bodies,

will basically hijack the process and who, by indirectly or directly extort these buddies into providing cover for his ritalin, providing you with immunity and continuing to time for it and protect it from any form of accountability. we've seen that happen time and time again. we've seen countries right to the i c. c, against the idea of accountability, even though they pushed that same court to open an investigation into war crimes, possibly committed in ukraine when neither the ukraine nor russia were members of the courts of the blue city. that is applied exceptionalism, that countries like the united states and others insist on when it comes to is real, is really quite, you know, draw dropping and it's very consistent. we see it

a year and then you're not just the i c, c, but every international for aware accountability at the is a possibility of francesca. i want to get your response to this too, because you heard nor there talk about the fact that it was, i believe in 2021. when the i c. c. opened a formal investigation looking at whether alleged war crimes had been committed by i. there was really forces or buy from us and other palestinian armed groups. in the last couple of days, we seen a statement from the office of the pet prosecutor of the i c. c saying that he's continuously monitoring the palestinian situation. i'm curious, why is this all taking so long? i cannot speak with certainty, this is an answer and that should be given by the office of the prosecutor. so whatever the reason it's unacceptable, it's really pains the credibility of the court. i need to national prenatal drug justice and international justice with it because it continues to bear between the

image of the international law. we don't exist treatments of the service minority a technically of the west. and the only way also to dispel these disability history to use all possible avenues without exceptionalism and without double sanders. so far so far, the connection with criminal court has not been such, but there are 2 elements that would like to bring to the discussion. one is that universal jurisdiction can also be this huge through national quote, and this is an avenue that has been explored if that's failed, but it should not be to go to i do believe that this is still an opportunity to pursue justice, but also restoration of the 2nd element is that restoring international no, definitely make itself to international justice. there is a 3rd stage responsibility um that the under international law east will

be in the guiding t o d o to patient is monte test. the younique's station 5, which is absolutely probably because down there international rule is money fast since the rock, this is our own bullying. the apartheid regina is fully don't you meant it? i do just enough to take decisive action from an international community point of view from un member state if there is a paralysis of the un security council. individualistic states or google states should act on their own accord to use the, to recur to de economic, political, dramatic majors counter measures of food by the un charter to bring these, the situation to and that, and francesca, let me also ask you, i mean, if what we're witnessing right now is the fact the universe jurisdiction is not being applied or there is no other really sufficient mechanism by which to try to

bring account ability a, what stopping is real from essentially doing anything at once. i mean, even if they are being told that they are breaking international law, i believe it's a political pressure. and um, and the reason general, i think that this is part of the parcel of the general and nautical the immunity. i think it's in community, the general and community that is granted to each rock which is not gonna accept, you know, in a sense that there are many states in this world unfortunately, which can be a bore in crimes and by any atrocity cry and, and international violations, jeffrey, let me get your vantage point when it comes to international law, when it comes to international justice. um, will there be more international pressure put on is real uh will they feel like they can act with impunity? well, i love this country, look country, but he's acting with the greatest improve it in doing. but most of them at the

moment is russia, which has torn up the un charles ad and has him. but he does another cox. yeah. and these, causing the crime. hundreds, every day by all means the civilians by, oh, the things that we can see on television. so it is acting within the bathroom up nuclear weapons, which terrifies everybody. so we are in a very difficult state, just a minute and international justice has only come all in the la quinta. your so yeah is the quote says to building up the precedents, there will be up there. and the movement they touch russia because each ease of member of the security council and ridiculously can be to

any action taken against the even the it to match the cravings in the country with teaching baby. so this is not to say that the bible's see the uh, any less than the ukraine victims is just the russia, as a member of the security council has defied the international. what i'm saying is in a different situation with which as i say, he has solomon who spring there was a very cool develop. a week ago it was only the 24 of june, which was the day, the director of see to come a par 5. we get, it isn't result, but to the commander of the use ray,

the and the age of she a and a couple of other see you the piece was attached to secular news. right? we do so it seems to be taken is rare, and it may well be you've got a country which has never had such a bind, racist government where many members of the nation. yeah. the whole. so the extra 100 of the staging site, and this is the stage of the country, which is quite enough to try to show appointments, to reach to crew. cool. so this is really going to be, as was one of the, uh, the says we wow, ship and bass can use waiting constitution to. yeah,

i think we seem to get was uh, the 1st page of keeping israel and other countries look, we see the restriction of moral. let's face it will. we've had hundreds of years and get them to prison is huge. they destroy, it says leave me a call as well with children and it be, you know, some civilians are going to be to well yeah for you i'm, i'm starting to jeffrey, i'm sorry to interrupt. you were just starting to run out of time. i nor i, i want to ask you about one of the reasons why why we're seeing all of this happen right now is, is the biggest reason we're seeing what's going on when it comes to janine happening right now? is it because the current government is the most right when government and israel's history? i think that's definitely part of it because the ideology that drives this government is wrong but seeks elimination. and, and,

and the destination of palestinians are they, they make no secret of that. and if we can give them credit, we can give them credit for being honest and forward of about what they plan to do in the occupied 3rd, $3.00, and $2.00 of the palestinian people. but i think you know, it, it just picking up on, on what your, what the judge was talking about. i think the fact that his real has in july, it impunity for so long and enjoy this protection from other countries for so long from any accountability as encouraged other countries to just say, well, you don't want this uh, these laws on these practices because of i haven't them and we can violate the, the laws of war at a because we can't because we have the power to because we have a veto of the israel doesn't upset in the security council, but it has a very good representative of the us as use the veto power to protect this world

more times if the security council than i'm any other subject. um so as well knows it can literally get away with murder. there have been several reports documenting its previous a war crimes and great violations. no accountability, 0 not just in terms of criminal accountability countries instead of applying sanctions instead of saying we are not going to deal with you as a normal law abiding state until you actually abide by the law. what are showering israel with political gifts, with more financial agreements with even military cool on ration when this, this military stands accused of committing more crimes. and i think that's the 3rd party responsibility of the dimension of accountability that we need to focus on. and the international look opinion is prepared for the people around the world are overwhelmingly fed up really with that double standard and with is real getting.

we're getting away with all these violations because people understand that if you allow a bully to get away with bullying in one neighborhood, then all the bullies and all the other in the hip neighborhoods will be encouraged me. francesco, we just have about a minute and a half left, but let me just ask you, what are the types of tactics and weaponry used by israel in this latest assault on jeanine that most concerned you and your colleagues in the area of the environment and the ground environment or in the ground. the attacks are both of concerns. i mean, i'm not a military expert, i look at the consequences and then i have the people centered approach. so and i look at what happened on the receiving end. as it was said, the full by others, and that the displacement of 4000 people, the destruction of homes, the destruction of sydney, that infrastructures, whatever the means, which caused it. the use of those means expertise has

resulted in a situation which is fremont passed it long ago and again it should be placed in it comes to examine it shouldn't be read. this is john cruz this drastically from the day the structural violated spare me the lives of the policy in time, the collection of to 56 years and we being 100 years. so this procession. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much. all of our guest your day francesca alban is a and jeffrey robertson and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. i'll just ever dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ag inside story. you can also, during the conversation on twitter or handle is at a j inside story for me and truman, the whole team here, bye for now, the us

the, when a waterline is committed, is it coming to the, how does it or follows that goes in the human rights investigator on his unprecedented journey to the french high court. i visit a pretty place to make sure that i should go up to practice taking on the arms, trained in his mind for justice, for innocent palestinians, and their families made in front. oh no, just see if how do you states control information controlling the narrative to dominating the media?

how does the narrative can pull public opinion and norma spite? it might not be the most important story about china of today. but that's what the public attention to how is citizenship? listen, we played in the story, the listening post. i fixed the media. you don't cover the news because of the way the news is covered. for example, variations in care. so you in areas where the seated residents like home dre clearing them up from their opponents and businesses determined to pick up their lives. again, everything is covered in film. it was impossible to get through here until the flood waters were down. your creatures, russia committed a crime by destroying the cold good time to finish these plots. russia didn't realize responsibility. as you can see, the floods you have receded, but some of the worst effect today. risk house of child battalion as lived on the banks of the english with the modem, decades when the war to reach the threshold,

then we started to run away. she shows us the flight tomorrow. so the house leads us inside to look through the photos. i don't have struggles to hold for tears. she knows. so despite the health, she will come rebuilding her life as the will rages will be a challenge field was the is there any policies? right? yes. another neighborhood in the occupied westbank killing at least 2 palestinians will be live in rome along the i'm sammy's a, then this is i'll just, there are live from dell hall. so coming up, fighting intensifies between rival ministry functions and so that we have.